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Affair Helpers and CoHorts

139K views 510 replies 78 participants last post by  MattMatt 
#1 ·
Hey all,

Been a while since I've been on here. My wife of 20 + years had an affair that started about 6 years ago. It was on again off again for close to 3 years to one level or another for a variety of reasons, the primary one being I didn't have the balls to take a hard stand against her behavior. When I finally got educated, in large part to TAM, and got my head out of my ass and was ready to walk she woke up out of her fog and for the most part things have been improving in our marriage the last several years. In a weird way the affair made me grow on a personal level in ways I never would have otherwise.

The reason I am posting today is because we are having a 4th of July gathering at our house. A husband, his wife, and their son are coming over. The husband was one of my wife's confidants during the affair. This guy never comes across my radar in day to day life. My wife used to work with him and is friends still with him as well as his wife. I know he thinks I don't like him because of the fact he was my wife's confidant during he affair and he's right. I don't like him. In years past from my wife I got the "it's not that he wanted me to be with the other guy it's that he wanted what's best for me, what makes me happy". And of course the reason for this was my wife painted me as the monster bad guy at home to justify her actions. This guy and his family have been in my house a few times in the last few years and I just ignore him. I caught communication between this guy and my wife that showed he was a big cheering section for her and advised her to go be with this other man. So yeah, I don't like him.

We also do things from time to time with my wife's best friend and her husband. Her best friend helped her a lot during the affair as in helped her communicate with the other man, etc. Again my wife portrayed me as the bad guy which as we all know the wandering spouse is good at doing in order to justify their behavior and get others in their court.

So I don't take many things personally anymore, just no point to it. But I've been thinking it's time to take a stand on having interaction with either of these 2 people who to one degree or another helped my wife with her affair. I know the hard liners will say anyone who helped facilitate an affair should be cut out completely and I understand that. On one level I don't give a crap because it's wasted negative energy but another part of me says I should take a harder stand here.

I'd enjoy hearing others thoughts and experience in this. Thanks in advance and have great holiday.
 
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#115 · (Edited)
It took me years to fully grok the enormity of my ex-wife's actions and her deplorable deceptions.

But once I did, I moved swiftly to divorce her and excise her vileness from my life.

You have to realize that the women you think you love is really not the woman you are married to. That woman does not exist. The real her cheats on you and keeps socially involved with her enablers.

Plus, she is still not fully honest with you.

And you want to stay with her because?

IMHO, time to trully grow a pair and divorce her. don't be so needy. You deserve better.
 
#117 ·
If this other couple were in fact helping her have the affair, I wouldn't welcome them in my house anymore. I tell you wife that you are going to take a hard stand against what she did and those who helped her and condoned her actions. I would also tell this guy's wife that he was an enabler. I honestly wouldn't care what other people think about whether you should or should tell her. Enabling an affair, in my mind it practically as bad as having one yourself.
 
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#119 ·
on the male friend guy--

he obviously was trying to get a piece of your wife. why else would he be an emotional tampon for her?

also-- the very fact that your wife has male friends that are not either (1) related to you or (2) your own friends first is an issue.

there is no reason for an honest married woman to be making male friends.
 
#123 ·
Cowboy,

Another impression I get from your writings, is that your WW has not changed the behaviors which lead to her affair in the first place. This has left you in an insecure place and I would guess every time she leaves the house without you or picks up her phone thoughts of the affair flash into your mind.

She still feels it is OK to have males in her life for emotional support.

Have her take a polygraph test.

Alternately you can tell the OM your WW has told you everything, and you would like him to verify what your WW told you. Tell him the undiluted truth will make this go away.

Tamat
 
#124 ·
I'm not insecure at all. I don't care that much, that probably speaks to my level of investment in the marriage anymore.

I only get an emotional trigger every once in a while. We watched an episode of Black Mirror about cheating like 6-8 months ago. Watching the wife gaslight her husband and deny everything her husband asked until he showed her evidence piece by piece through multiple conversation was like whoa, been there, felt that surreal feeling.
 
#125 ·
Cowboy2

I have a few questions to ask, and if you oblige and answer them, feel free to pm the answers if you wish.

1) do you know the OM?
2) is the OM friends with the best friend or former male coworker?
3) are you sure this affair is over?
4) if OM is friends with the two affair enablers, is your wife still conversing through them with OM?
5) if she worked with OM, do they still work together?

To be direct and honest cowboy, I believe these two friends remain in her life as a connection to OM. I truly hope I'm wrong, but I would stay vigilant at the least.
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#126 ·
We can PM if you'd prefer, I've no issue answering here.

1. I know who he is and have spoken with him on the phone but don't know him personally. My wife knew him from HS and just after, 18-19 years old range.

2. OM is friends with my wife's best friend, they used to communicate through the best friend after the 2nd or 3rd time I caught on. The former male coworker doesn't know OM at all.

3. I'm fairly certain they've no contact for 2-3 years, since the end of 2013. The last time they were communicating thru my wife's work email so I don't know for sure.

4. This would only be relevant thru her best friend. I don't think so but don't know for sure. Any things possible.

5. Wife & OM never worked together. Wife does work with male friend who supported her affair once per month for 4 hours.

Best friend still could be the conduit but I don't believe so.
 
#128 ·
Cowboy, I've pmd you some details but what I left out (not intentionally, I've just been through my story here and I forget not everyone knows) is that we became "friends" with my OM and his wife again about a year after I told my husband it was just a kiss. We remained friends with them after that for about 2 years.

I came clean the first week of October. As recently as early September, OM was at my house hanging out with a group of friends that he had told the whole story too. (I was unaware at the time they knew).

We were sitting by the pool and one of the friends wives was eating a chipotle burrito that was huge. One of the guys said something along the lines of "sheesh, she takes it like a champ, like she's giving head and can't wait to grab the balls". My OM said "I know someone who does that" and made a funny face, all the guys started laughing. My husband was off in the pool with the kids so he didn't hear it. At the time, I didn't realize what he was saying a) because I never grabbed his balls b) because the whole thing lasted less than a minute c) I had been drinking and it kind of went over my head

Thinking back now, that scum was BRAGGING about what had happened and trying to look cool to the guys he had told all while smiling in my husbands face.

I hate that it took me so long to realize how toxic my friends were. You can bet they've talked and joked about it.
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#131 ·
Maybe I missed it, but how exactly were these people able to support the affair? I understood it to be an EA that was perpetuated via email. Never went physical, supposedly. They worked at different places. Was she telling these folks that she was involved with another guy and keeping them abreast of their communications?

Still, you have posted the emails. You have claimed that you really don't have a lot invested in the marriage. I am not sure why you stay? I don't mean leave because she is a cheater and that'll show her. Instead, I mean that at the end of the day, the result of everything that has happened is that this marriage is not worth keeping.

I often say that marriage and divorce are not rewards or punishments. They are results. Infidelity, abuse, and a whole lot of things also produce results. It seems that if you don't care, and don't have a lot invested in the marriage, a new result needs to be reached.
 
#134 ·
And, the main reason for those pos to go after a married woman is:

"Thinking back now, that scum was BRAGGING about what had happened and trying to look cool to the guys he had told all while smiling in my husbands face."

--------------------------------------------------------------


In my simple mind, it's your responsibility to do "whatever", not your husband's job to go punch him out. Though, if he is that stupid to keep those folks as friends, he may not be worth keeping.

And there is the perspective from those who won't say what they are thinking.

This wasn't meant to stir trouble, but honestly to provide C2 with some outside perspective...and maybe you too, LH? Sounds like you both have some major issues to work through still.
 
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#137 · (Edited)
Men like him go for married woman because it is an incredible ego boost. It has nothing to do with the woman as a person just as an achievement. Absolutely nothing at all. This is why they can move on so quickly. They get their self worth from F***ing woman. (Yes it is just plain old F***ing). They have no concept of emotional bonding. Or maybe they are emotional bonded to someone else.

The whole thing is a big bate and switch. It's a con game. Give some nice ego boosting and get to have some sex. "You are the most beautiful woman I have ever met. What we have no one else has ever had. Your husband takes you for granted, if only I could be with you." Meanwhile the husband is helping to pay for the roof on her head, and probably said some of the same stuff, but he really meant it. Then con-man gets some sex and he gets do it with with his friends wife. He thinks I am so much better then him I got his wife to betray him for me. I can put that POA my wall and show my friends sometimes to let them know how great I am. That sounds very crude but that is HIS mindset.

This guy is who these woman give up someone who loves them for. Most woman who fall for guys like this never had a true male role model. A father who told her about guys like this. Who showed her that a true man shows love by actions. She doesn't understand a mans true nature. What a man thinks is proving his love to her. Hence Mr. sliver tongue is the man.
 
#146 ·
Thanks for this. I've started reading it and will work my way through as I find time.

One of the biggest pain points for me is the way I was emotionally manipulated during this. Just a few weeks ago she made a comment about how our marriage was in a crappy place back the. And that's what she told me them. But it wasn't any different than the majority of our marriage. That's just one example and there are many.

A large part is who emotionally manipulates the person they share their life with to that degree and do I want to grow old with that person?
 
#143 ·
@Cowboy2 Leave you marriage if that is what will work for you.

However, you should not leave your marriage because that is what worked for someone else.
You shouldn't stay in your marriage because it worked for someone else either. Just saying. 0:)
 
#142 ·
OP,
It is very evident after 10 pages that you are now aware that you are not reconciling. In the title of this thread you are describing cads and villains, not friends. If your wife were truly remorseful she would clearly see that her "friend" was actually the enemy. Friends don't let friends drive drunk but they "have their backs" as they do other things that are just as damaging to their life?? Where is the difference? If your wife felt true remorse SHE would disassociate herself from these enablers for her own cleansing and for yours.

You mentioned that your wife never had a "drop to her knees begging forgiveness" moment and without that her spirit, compartment or whatever word you choose to use is not broken. In her mind she has gotten away with murder, murder of the marriage and she feels no crippling, debilitating agony over this? Do you seriously see this as contrition?

After all that has been written you now know that these are not friends. You now know that you are not in reconciliation. You now know that this will happen again without true remorse. You now know that your wife does not feel true remorse. Armed with this knowledge all that remains is for you to decide which path your life will take based on what you can accept and live with. You must decide for yourself and for your children and reap the consequences. It is up to you now.
 
#147 ·
My marriage was in a crappy place when I did what I did too. But that's not an EXCUSE. If the marriage was in a crappy place, she could have left. Just as I could have left.

When you're hurting the answer is not to hurt someone else in return. The answer is to either a) remove yourself from the hurtful situation b) commit to making the hurtful situation better.

If she is still saying that to you, she does not fully understand her actions. She is still placing the blame on you.

I fully believe that the reconciliations that work are the ones where both parties own their sh*t and the ways they contributed to a poor marriage and try to change those ways. Having said that, anything you did did not contribute to the affair - though it's easy as a wayward to say those things did. The only thing the betrayeds bad points contributed to were the unhappiness of the other spouse, but not the affair.

My husband is a distant, non affectionate man. He ignored me a lot, never really compliments me, chose his friends over me, always put his needs first. Had a 10 year ea with his ex girlfriend. Those things all contributed to my unhappiness. But they didn't contribute to my ons. I should have left or given him an ultimatum that things had to change or I WOULD leave. Instead, I CHOSE to screw around with his best friend to make myself feel better in the moment. THAT part is on me.

Going forward, the only choice I have is to try to be a better woman and hope that he continues trying to be a better man. And if either one of us is not holding up our end of the deal, then we walk, we don't cheat.
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#149 ·
Seems like your ONS was revenge for his lack of caring about your feelings and his commitment to you being cherished?

Have you addressed those anger issues with a counselor?

Also, your husband may be incapable of hearing and processing all of that without a melt down.

If you don't want a man who is not able to talk with you, I think you owe it to yourselves to discuss this with a psychologist and attempt to make some changes. The only change that might bring you some satisfaction could be divorce.

Of course, he just might not give a crap any more. That seems very hurtful and distant. It seems like punishment.

These are the issues with reconciliation. Many don't make it, but still go through hell, both BS and WS.
 
#151 ·
So, you felt desire for intimacy, but you didn't respond until it was initiated, and unfortunately, the person initiating was someone other than your husband? At that point, you let yourself be seduced to feel like you were pretty, sexy, and desirable?

What is his reason for refusing marriage counseling?

So, basically, you are 70% dissatisfied with your marriage/relationship with your husband and vulnerable to another affair? That's quite a bit of pressure to be under. Seems like, if your reasons were that you were in a weakened state due to a lack of nurturing and love by your husband, you are there again and maybe have never really moved forward to a more satisfying life with your husband?

Tough questions, I know. Don't feel compelled to answer. I'm just trying to understand a bit more deeply than I do already. I know it's your life and not able to be used as a general rule, but there are similarities to many other instances of infidelity.

Neither am I trying to embarrass or shame you. I don't feel any contempt for you and I hope I am not being insolent. I just feel strong curiosity and a desire to learn through others.
 
#152 ·
I am not vulnerable to another affair. Id rather die than do that again. In addition to my own feelings of failure and disdain for myself, I now have a huge disdain for people who cheat. Hypocritical? Probably. I've just seen the pain I've caused him and the pain I've caused myself and I couldn't do it again.

Yes, I'd imagine I did what I did in order to feel sexy, desirable, wanted. Low self esteem, never really feeling good enough for anyone probably has sonething to do with that. But I won't put myself in that position again.

I wouldn't say I'm 70% disatisfied with my marriage. I'm just trying to heal. I still trigger over his ea, I still feel like scum for what I did. I still wonder if it will work and ping pong between wanting it to work and thinking it might be best if it doesn't. I just know I don't want to hurt anyone ever again.

As far as counseling, he thinks it's a joke. Says he doesn't need anyone else to tell him how to fix things.
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#159 ·
It should not be a request.
These "friends" who supported an affair, regardless of how bad or good your marriage was, are people of low moral character. I refer to them as "black clouds-- if you're around them, you're gonna get rained on".
I don't get near black clouds-- that's non-negotiable. Me ex liked to hang around those types. She's my ex, now......

As to "Losing Him" and her guilt over what she did.......
You really need to put that behind you and forgive yourself. You made a mistake. But I think that mistake and the guilt over it is blinding you to mistreatment by others.
God always forgives people who are truly repentant. I believe you are. Forgive yourself. Put it behind you.
It's not good for you to keep drowning yourself in the guilt.
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#161 ·
The husband was one of my wife's confidants during the affair.
You sure all they did was talk? Once a cheat always a cheat.

I'd enjoy hearing others thoughts and experience in this.
Invite into your home? Are you insane? This guy is TOXIC. This friendship needs to END immediately. At best he's a beta orbiter looking to get into your wife's pants, at worst he already has, multiple times.

I'd tell your 'wife', "That A-hole was an accomplice to your immoral behavior, if I find out he so much as sends you a Xmas card, I'll be serving you divorce papers. It ME or HIM, choose NOW." If she even hesitates, then your reconciliation is a total sham.
 
#163 ·
I'd tell your 'wife', "That A-hole was an accomplice to your immoral behavior, if I find out he so much as sends you a Xmas card, I'll be serving you divorce papers. It ME or HIM, choose NOW." If she even hesitates, then your reconciliation is a total sham.
I think she already agreed that he would not be welcome there anymore. I would let him come over with his wife. I would then sit them all in my house with my wife and bring all the evidence with of the affair up including how her husband supported and was probably looking to hookup with my wife. I would be willing to bet after I was done I would have resolved all the issues in one simple discussion. Friends would never want to come over again. Wife would be packing her bags and staying with family for a while.

Who needs enemies with friends like that around.

C
 
#164 · (Edited)
Here's the link: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-infidelity/107090-best-way-divorce-my-wife.html

Everything you ever wanted to know about me.

You seem like you've made progress stating up for yourself.

You need to get tougher man. She needs to do the heavy lifting.

That's including cutting off ANYONE who helped facilitate the pain she inflicted on you.

This is NON-NEGOTIABLE. I'd be outraged if that turd walked through my front door.
 
#166 ·
Best of luck to you Cowboy. You deserve answers, the truth and some peace. I hope it works out for the best for you.

I didn't mean to thread jack your post, but i hope at least some of what I shared helps to open your eyes to what the "friends of the affair" contribute to the state of your marriage.

I've been wear you're sitting, I was just in your wife's shoes. Don't be my husband and rug sweep it and just let it go. It will fester until you can't stand it anymore.
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#173 ·
Gave my wife a secret cell phone. Think the term is burner phone right?

I was floored when I discovered it. When I confronted my MIL about it 2 years post fact she said it wasn't for my wife to continue her affair, it was because I was making my wife feel trapped by looking at her phone. Ya think? Part of how I was portrayed as so controlling I'm sure.

Unsurprisingly the only texts and calls on the phone were to OM.
 
#174 ·
I know the feeling....I was close to my parents-in-law...when W cheated they completely sided with her (which I understand, is their kid), but also completely ignored me and wouldnt even talk to me about it.....ever since I no longer feel close to them, I hardly speak to them and just out of courtesy and only if absolutely necessary.
 
#209 ·
I know the feeling....I was close to my parents-in-law...when W cheated they completely sided with her (which I understand, is their kid),
Respectfully, BS

My parents were bitterly divided when my sister cheated. You do not have to side with your kid when they are wrong.
but also completely ignored me and wouldnt even talk to me about it.....ever since I no longer feel close to them, I hardly speak to them and just out of courtesy and only if absolutely necessary.
I doubt I'd be that nice. Just because they are blood doesn't take away from the fact that they are enemies to your marriage.
 
#187 ·
it seems your wife is an expert at creating a cheerleading section for her poor choices

a huge component of this must be her willingness to bad mouth you in order to portray herself as a sympathetic victim

you might consider requesting her to come clean to your extended family and social circle regarding what she's done and to "correct the record" regarding any lies she has told about you

consider that if you split up, individuals may go on the record about your fitness as a parent, etc.

people may genuinely believe that you are controlling/abusive because that is what your wife has told them.
 
#191 ·
it seems your wife is an expert at creating a cheerleading section for her poor choices

a huge component of this must be her willingness to bad mouth you in order to portray herself as a sympathetic victim

people may genuinely believe that you are controlling/abusive because that is what your wife has told them.
Yup, she definitely is.

Early on in the affair I saw a message from the male friend/affair supporter that said "I feel so sorry for you that you don't get that at home! You deserve to be happy!".

At the time I was like what is he talking about? What isn't she getting? What's missing and what am I missing? Of course in hindsight it's easy to see she told she didn't get closeness or some other made up bulls**t. All part of creating the victim.
 
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