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Maintaining Boundaries

18K views 90 replies 34 participants last post by  MAJDEATH 
#1 ·
(Full Disclosure: My W has recently joined TAM and may read/respond to my posts. She and I disagree on the benefits of the advice provided on this forum, but I submit that, like other sites that I read/post to (Affair Care, Marriage Builders, etc) you must decide if the advice given applies to your specific situation. Either way, I welcome all responses, including hers)

Recently, it has become necessary for my W and I to define appropriate boundaries for members of the opposite sex. I have communicated my concerns about male non-family members being in our home when I am not there, and she has both agreed to and has demonstrated (as verified by our adult son) that she will not invite others into the house.

I realize that this situation/dynamic is unique to us. She was not aware that it was a problem for me, and I was wrong in not communicating my concerns clearly to her sooner.
 
#52 ·
I realize that this situation/dynamic is unique to us. She was not aware that it was a problem for me, and I was wrong in not communicating my concerns clearly to her sooner.
That's why she did it when you were at work.

And never told you.

She said this with a straight face? And you believe her?
 
#54 ·
Guys, I don't blame Maj nor his wife for going dark. We have all said our piece on his other threads, the same stuff is here, nothing new.
Would it be so difficult to restrain yourselves for a few days and wait to see what Maj's wife might write, she aint gonna write now, that is for sure. So in short there is no point to this whole thread.
 
#55 ·
Aine, I think the thread is still helpful.

It's true - only they can go on this journey together and decide what's best.

I personally get a bit disappointed when the combined efforts of posters here amounts to literally thousands of dollars worth of free advice/therapy/experience... and not applied/absorbed? .... Need a better word that doesn't sound too assuming.

I hope his wife does write here, but if not, there are other forums out there.

But to your point, yes. They don't owe us anything.
 
#56 ·
If his wife is here, it's not to participate in open discussion. It's to monitor what he says about her and more importantly, to be able to counter any input from the chuckle patch that could possibly lead him to changing the status quo.

Just look at how twisted this poor fellow's mind is. By his own words, he has become convinced that his wife's intentions were benign and she simply was unaware that such behavior was unacceptable. She can't have him wising up, now can she?

For his part, he sounds like someone with very low self esteem. I doubt that he in any way enjoys this as has been suggested by others. Most likely he simply thinks he doesn't deserve any better. Posting on this board is of little value to him. He should be in intensive counseling to overcome these feelings. The escape from his situation is inside him. He needs help finding it and this ain't the place.

I hope he finds his way.
 
#57 ·
And here I thought there would be such a difference between posting in the "long term success in marriage" section and the "coping with infidelity" section. It seems the tone is the same.
 
#58 ·
LOL.

Not bad as far as cop outs go.

I suppose we could ask the admins to spin up a "Successfully Coping With Long Term Infidelity in Marriage" forum, though.

:lol: :rofl:

Posted via Mobile Device
 
#60 ·
You've posted on many of the forums on TAM in the time you've been here and have gotten the same advice each time. It just isn't what you want to hear. Have you tried some of the other forums that are out there? I can't think of the names right now but they are occasionally recommended to posters who don't find what they are looking for on TAM.
 
#65 ·
In knowing your backstory Majdeath, it's not so much about boundaries at this point, it's that your wife needs to figure out why she needs attention from nearly any man who is breathing to validate her. She doesn't sound picky...so it's not personal to you. Why you tolerate it, is your own choice at this point, but it's not about boundaries with her. It's about getting to the root cause of your wife's emptiness. If you don't get to that, there'll always be men in your marriage. :eek: And I happen to think that she is the initiator in the flirtations, etc, not the men, just a guess.
 
#67 ·
@MAJDEATH,

I'll be honest--I don't think this is really about "boundaries" because boundaries are not rules that one spouse makes to enforce on the other spouse. Boundaries are fences that you put around yourself to decide who and what you will allow access to YOU. Boundaries are about YOU controlling YOU--not you controlling your spouse or your spouse controlling you.

So since you are not really talking about "boundaries" here but more like "Rules" to which you both agree (and even agreement can be ambiguous, because as you have seen, a spouse can agree in definition and then justify why they have to break the "agreement" or claim they didn't "understand"), let me share with you the agreement that my Dear Hubby and I have regarding friends of the opposite sex:

We agree to give 100% of our affection, loyalty and companionship ONLY TO OUR SPOUSE. There will be no affection given (in a romantic way) to any other person, same or opposite sex. There will be not loyalty given to any other person, same or opposite sex. There will be no companionship given to any other person, same or opposite sex.

Now before you object with something like "What about your children or relatives?" or some exclamation about being loyal to your job or church, let me say this: of course you give affection to your own children, and of course you love your siblings, parents, aunts, uncles and cousins--but that is "family" love, not romantic, intimate knowledge kind of love. Of course you are loyal to your team or company--that is not intimate loyalty. That is not what our rule is talking about! Our rule is talking about doing affectionate things with someone other than your spouse, to whom all of your intimate affection is due; it is NOT yours to give away, but theirs! Our rule is about loyalty to your spouse, your marriage, and you vows--always having your spouse's back, always standing up for them, and always considering them in all things; it is not yours to give away, but theirs! And our rule is about giving to your spouse and only to your spouse, the joy of recreation, kicking back, having fun, enjoying yourself; it is not yours to give to someone else, but theirs!

And since MAJ nothing personal, but since the dynamic of your marriage is so far from even being able to comprehend that, much less being able to enact that on a mutual level, I doubt I'll respond again...and it's not because I'm a jerk. It's because you can not and/or do not hear us.
 
#70 ·
@MAJDEATH,

I'll be honest--I don't think this is really about "boundaries" because boundaries are not rules that one spouse makes to enforce on the other spouse. Boundaries are fences that you put around yourself to decide who and what you will allow access to YOU. Boundaries are about YOU controlling YOU--not you controlling your spouse or your spouse controlling you.

So since you are not really talking about "boundaries" here but more like "Rules" to which you both agree (and even agreement can be ambiguous, because as you have seen, a spouse can agree in definition and then justify why they have to break the "agreement" or claim they didn't "understand"), let me share with you the agreement that my Dear Hubby and I have regarding friends of the opposite sex:

We agree to give 100% of our affection, loyalty and companionship ONLY TO OUR SPOUSE. There will be no affection given (in a romantic way) to any other person, same or opposite sex. There will be not loyalty given to any other person, same or opposite sex. There will be no companionship given to any other person, same or opposite sex.

Now before you object with something like "What about your children or relatives?" or some exclamation about being loyal to your job or church, let me say this: of course you give affection to your own children, and of course you love your siblings, parents, aunts, uncles and cousins--but that is "family" love, not romantic, intimate knowledge kind of love. Of course you are loyal to your team or company--that is not intimate loyalty. That is not what our rule is talking about! Our rule is talking about doing affectionate things with someone other than your spouse, to whom all of your intimate affection is due; it is NOT yours to give away, but theirs! Our rule is about loyalty to your spouse, your marriage, and you vows--always having your spouse's back, always standing up for them, and always considering them in all things; it is not yours to give away, but theirs! And our rule is about giving to your spouse and only to your spouse, the joy of recreation, kicking back, having fun, enjoying yourself; it is not yours to give to someone else, but theirs!

And since MAJ nothing personal, but since the dynamic of your marriage is so far from even being able to comprehend that, much less being able to enact that on a mutual level, I doubt I'll respond again...and it's not because I'm a jerk. It's because you can not and/or do not hear us.
That's the part that I am struggling with the most in my counseling sessions. For the longest time she had my back. We went thru an incredibly intense 3-year period (related to a workplace issue) where she was the rock who really held us together thru an incredibly difficult time. And I really believe a lessor woman would have given up and said "this is too hard, I'm out". I give her a lot of credit for sticking with me during that period, so I can't for the life of me understand why private foot rubs were so important at this point in her life?
 
#69 ·
I am a pro marriage type of guy. If a spouse shows true remorse after cheating, I'm all for giving R a shot. It's not easy for the BS, but if the WS is truly sorry, a genuine R can happen. The problem with Maj and his wife is that she has been secretive and deceitful after being caught. These foot rubs MAY be mostly innocent, but she purposefully has hidden them from Maj. She has gone so far as to tell the OM when he will be out of town so they can meet up. How is that conducive to R?
 
#71 ·
There is something else that is troubling me. W communicated that during the last rub session with the OM, she told him that "I need to find a way to tell (MAJDEATH) about our meetings without him getting upset, but I haven't thought of a good way to do that, what do you think?" and OM said "whatever". Shortly after he left. In hindsight, she indicated that this made her upset at the OM, because she was waiting for him to say something along the lines of "well if there is no good way to tell your husband without upsetting him and he is the most important thing in your life, then we should stop what we are doing because it is wrong". Supposedly they had been friends for 17 years and talked a lot at times, all pro-marriage.

Now before all the forum naysayers tell me this is hogwash, I must premise this by saying that I have no way to verify any of this, it is hearsay. I know she is working closely and intensely with her own IC, and this subject was most likely discussed in their sessions. If it is true, does it mean anything or is it simply her trying to dangle a olive branch toward R by indicating that she was starting to resent the OM and would have ended the "non-appropriate" part of their friendship on her own? Or is it cheater-speak nonsense?
 
#73 ·
There is something else that is troubling me. W communicated that during the last rub session with the OM, she told him that "I need to find a way to tell (MAJDEATH) about our meetings without him getting upset, but I haven't thought of a good way to do that, what do you think?" and OM said "whatever". Shortly after he left. In hindsight, she indicated that this made her upset at the OM, because she was waiting for him to say something along the lines of "well if there is no good way to tell your husband without upsetting him and he is the most important thing in your life, then we should stop what we are doing because it is wrong". Supposedly they had been friends for 17 years and talked a lot at times, all pro-marriage.
What a crock of manure.

All cheaters try desperately to paint themselves in the most innocent light that they can. That's nothing new, nor is it in any way unique. She's just doing what they all do. Her ridiculous story about wanting her 'friend' to agree with her that her marriage the most important thing in her world is actually laughable. She'd already SHOWN him how 'important' her marriage is, playing footsies with this mouth breather on your couch while you weren't home.
 
#72 ·
Maj, giving her the benefit of the doubt for a moment, if she is the age she is and she truly thinks that a man can be her friend, exchange physical touch (footrubs) without crossing boundaries, she is very emotionally immature.

Men don't give a cr@p about hearing stories about other men, or offering women emotional support around other men (read: their husband's... I.e. you) when they want to bang them.

My feeling is she knows this and is going into weird "I didn't know what I was doing... Honest" damage control to keep you guessing. And it's working.
 
#76 ·
Many years ago, I saw a family member in what looked to be a verbally and physically abusive relationship. I even offered the female half and her children a room at my house so she could get away from her abuser and get on her feet. She refused. I was perplexed.

Later, I found out that the family member wasn't being abused at all. All of the bad behavior we outsiders saw was actually their kink. The horrible public comments, the physical shoving, etc. was actually their foreplay.

I seriously wonder if TAMers are unwittingly participating in a similar kink.

I am starting to believe that MrsMajDeath is simply a non-monogamist who enjoys catting around and that MajDeath is into the drama and rush of investigation, spying, and confrontation. I am starting to believe this is all a game they play and have been playing for around 20 years.
 
#80 ·
I am starting to believe that MrsMajDeath is simply a non-monogamist who enjoys catting around and that MajDeath is into the drama and rush of investigation, spying, and confrontation. I am starting to believe this is all a game they play and have been playing for around 20 years.
I agree. I've thought for awhile now it's a game.
 
#77 ·
"I realize that this situation/dynamic is unique to us. She was not aware that it was a problem for me, and I was wrong in not communicating my concerns clearly to her sooner."

Now, she states that she broached the subject with the OM and was trying to find a way to tell you that wouldn't make you upset.

So, which is it? Which lie do you find easier to swallow?

You have to accept the fact that she did this because she wanted to and knew full well that it would piss you off as it would piss off any other person on the planet. She used your home to 'entertain' another man. If this was all so innocent, why didn't they ever enjoy the rubs at his place in front of his wife?

An 'olive branch'? Seriously? Even if she did have that little convo, it proves she knew it was wrong and did it anyway.

Look, you're trying to make sense of something that makes no sense. You have a remorseless wife who is trying to save her skin. She'll say anything in hope of finding the one thing that will make you stop giving her grief.
 
#89 ·
If you don't agree with a person, if you don't want to contribute to their story, then just DONT. To post on the thread just to say "I'm not going to post on this thread anymore" is really freaking lame.

FWIW, I don't think this is a game at all.

I do think that MAJDEATH's wife is the author of some of the out of character posts and she's doing what she cao repair the damage and win back MAJDEATH's trust or more aptly to reduce or eliminate his suspicions but so what. He's not going anywhere. He might have a revenge affair here or there to "get even" but he'll stay in this dysfunctional abusive deceptive situation until the end of time unless his wife leaves him for one of her many affair partners.

He's not playing some sort of twisted game, the poor guy is not the brightest bulb in the shed and he's in complete denial except for once in a while when it's so damn blatent he can't ignore it so he posts his suspicions here, has a brief period where he plans to take action but in the end he falls right back in line just like his wife expects him to.

Because for him, the alternative is unfathomable. He cannot and will not face the reality of the situation because there is too much fear. It sounds incredible but there are lots of people who live their lives this way because it's all they can handle.
 
#91 · (Edited)
Oh I definitely think there was some element of leading him on, the question is whether he figured it out or not. According to OMW, he has lots of female friends with his job in media, but doesn't confuse spending time with them as "personal interest". I'll never know because he won't ever be stepping on my property again, to discuss work or anything else.
 
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