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How does the sand taste bremik? I told you so.....

128K views 534 replies 67 participants last post by  Marc878 
#1 ·
There have been talks on here how those "holding out" for love or pinning hopes on reconciliation often end up coming back when the other shoe finally drops. Here I am!

Ironically, I have been trying to talk to my wife since last November and various "now is not a good time" by me or her got me to this past Friday. I decided to write a letter complete with what I loved about her, what I thought was bad about her but was just a part of her personality that I considered and accepted to be a part of who she was. And finally, that her relationship/boundary handling of other males coupled with the lies and deceptions surrounding those relationships was something I could no longer emotionally handle. Hoped for a good talk Friday night and instead got good sex- awesome but not what I was hoping for.

Saturday she and a 2 of our children were away during the day and unfortunately for both of us she left her phone. After mentioning in her letter how much she guarded her phone I of course wouldn't let such an opportunity escape and started searching the phone. Also in my letter I had how her college "friend" Jay had been such a detriment to our marriage and lo and behold I found out through her phone that her and Jay have been i-messaging for at least a year and I would say safe to bet longer than that. Since 3 pm yesterday afternoon when I figured this out I have pretty much been wanting to throw up. Not only have they been in contact with each other he has a new number - one of the reasons I didn't catch it- and just to make sure to really hide things my wife had that new number under his farm name and not his actual name- another miss on my part.

Just to drive the stake in a little deeper she proceeded to talk to me that night- unaware of my find that day- how I just can't get past the "issues" and just keep going in circles with all this. Oh and she hadn't talked to Jay so why is he an issue still? She agreed trust was the issue and was doing everything she could do to re-build that trust. So TAM members/posters you have another point of win in your court.

Any newbies to this- read and memorize BS with a long time update. I got a lot out of it and myself have lived a lot of it. I-messaging sucks because it doesn't show up on cell phone logs. True remorse and hard honesty is a must for reconciling at a minimum. Just my input
 
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#45 ·
Bremik, I have been following your threads since day one. I felt I needed to pipe in with my tuppence:



This is NOT a marriage - not by any stretch of anyone's imagination. She continues to freewheel doing whatever she wants and then sweet talks you and turns on the sex to keep you on hook. She will lie, deceive - pretty much do anything she has to. And she probably knows that you are dependent on her financially.


Make no mistake that she has had and is probably still having sex with others especially the scumb@gs you have mentioned (Jay, Dave, Mike … and God knows who else). And the killer is … she doesn't care what it does to you (deep down you know she does this and deep down she knows you know). She knows you will do nothing about it.


So the question is how long you are willing to tolerate this despicable, disrespectful behaviour. And at what cost to you and your well being? SELL THE DAMN FARM, get a regular job and move into a smaller house and get on with your life. Cut this cancer completely out of your life. You love your "illusion" (your vision of what you think she is - not what she really is). If you had a good look at what she really is you would be terrified. Stop this now. Lawyer up and get the D underway. Lay down your demands one final time and proceed with the split. Then watch her R actions - not words and not her trying to have sex with you.


Wake up, dump the farm and get on with your life!
 
#50 · (Edited)
I do not come from a "jump ship" mentality... and if I am with a spouse it is because I want to be there, mostly healthy and enriched in a life together, but there must be truth in the big things although it is up to the couple to determine what boundaries constitute big and little and each is different.

Fidelity is a big thing.

I think that I would tire quickly in a game of circular logic, often the conversations we fear most are the one that are the most critical to have... and free us from our immediate worry. True, another may take it's place, but at least that worry is addressed.

What would you lose by being totally forthcoming, letting her know everything you know?

It would be at this point one could set the ultimate boundary, a very clear and marital deal-breaker if necessary.

If she wants these communications, she want's them more than she wants you.

Many may choose to live like that... what do you choose?
 
#51 ·
I am not trying to be combative if it comes off that way. Just trying to rationalize things in my head. I always read it takes 2 in marriage problems and there have been many discussions on here to the validity of that statement. I think the best I have gathered from these discussions is - nobody agrees.

If the same voice in my head says " jay is still in the picture she can't let him go" also says as she is crying and telling me how angry or mean I am to her "am I doing something wrong to make this worse?" What the heck am I supposed to do? I personally accept the notion that there is at least some ownership/responsibility on my part but I can't see what that is. I feel justified to be angry that all this has happened. I don't feel it's history if she is STILL in contact with jay. It is such a horrible mind game.
 
#59 ·
Just trying to rationalize things in my head.
Rationalizing is your problem. You rationalize away your wife's cheating. Usually it is only the cheater that does this, but in your case she just lets you do it.

I always read it takes 2 in marriage problems and there have been many discussions on here to the validity of that statement. I think the best I have gathered from these discussions is - nobody agrees.
People agree if you quoted it correctly, but you are not quoting the full statement. The full statement is that "you are both responsible for issues in your marriage, but a cheater is 100% responsible for their cheating." Few on this site will disagree with this statement.
 
#54 ·
The knowns are important.

*You know he has her new phone number.

*You know it is in her contacts.

*You know it is disguised with another name.

*You know the calls are recent.

Is this so?
 
#57 ·
You don't have to get divorced, or even move out to reestablish yourself as the head of the household. It's time to bring in all the kids for a family meeting and inform them of your wife's activities.

If she goes to GNO activities late at night, turn on all the lights at 5 am while you get ready to start your day. Separate your finances and only pay for your own stuff. No sex unless it's only on your terms and for your benefit, protected of course. Inform all exrtended family members and friends of her infidelity.
 
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#66 ·
Some women (not all of us) view tears as a tactic to be used to win. That always works well with a Nice Guy (like you). We learn very early just how easily we can manipulate. Most of us live our entire lives and never do that even once but we are well aware that we can. She does.
 
#68 ·
Bremik I'm starting to think you actually enjoy the feeling of being cuckolded because otherwise how the hell are you still with this conniving,manipulating cheating *****.Are you having a laugh at the people on this forum who are trying to help you.Or is it a martyr complex you have going and you see yourself as some kind of saint.
Maybe you think you will get your reward in the next life,well I have news for you buddy the life you are living is not a dress rehearsal and you need to make the most of it.
How do you think your children look at you,with disgust I'd say.
Again.Grow a pair.
 
#69 ·
I think you're basically right ... this is just another dead horse beating where well meaning people are trying to help a BH that doesn't want to be helped. He is in this situation because he chooses to be in this situation. He has/had the ability to change his circumstances many times over many years, but he over and over chooses the status quo.
 
#72 ·
Your next steps have absolutely nothing to do with the financial aspects of your life. All you need to do is to get out of infidelity.

If her boyfriend has a spouse make sure that you blow that up before she gets back. File for divorce. Implement 180. Exposure to family. Separating finances is so damn far down the road that you can't worry about that because it's simply not at the top of your list. You just can't focus on it now.
 
#79 ·
Seriously, Bremik, you need to think about whether there is something a little bit exciting about playing the victim and gaining the sympathy of a bunch of strangers. Is it a little thrilling to come here and hash over your wife's sexual activities and hear a bunch of guys tell you how unfair it is?

If I'm way off base, then I apologize. But take action then this time. If you come back here a year from now, complaining about the same things, then you're just the boy who cried "wolf" and you're deceptively making us participate in your fantasy.
 
#86 ·
Farming is very cyclical in income. Feast and famine. That's normal what alters your ability to deal with that is whether you inherited what you have or were first generation. We started 100% on borrowed money as first generation. It takes time. In 2 years a lot of our major payments will be up and the money gets more available to us. In addition, we are trying to venture into on farm processing and farm markets to sustain us- it takes time. You can't lay off your cows when prices are down
 
#90 · (Edited)
The family farm business is one tough business. It goes from year to year, feast to famine. All the things you say about it, including needing the entire family to contribute, are true. It's a business that is negatively susceptible to many outside variables like bugs, disease, weather, demand, prices and now your wife. She doesn't seem to understand that keeping Jay around (divorce) is going to contribute to her family's business failing. Does she?
 
#91 ·
If she is not an eminent threat to you or your kids, then why don't you separate amicably and still run a business?

There is NO WAY this relationship is made out of love and is kept due to love. Well, make it a marriage of convenience then. She will and has not stopped cheating. You want out but can't due to finances. Why is this that I mentioned above not a doable route?

Notice I didn't mention divorce and you don't have to be divorced to both get from "this type of marriage" what you both need at this time. It's not perfect, but neither has the situation you have been in for quite some time either. Things don't have to be black and white. They grey area works best the majority of the time.
 
#111 ·
@bremik,

I took a look at your past posts, all the way back to 2009, and I want to address a couple things.

First, I do not tell people to divorce lightly. I'm very pro-marriage and believe people should do everything they can to save the marriage and family. That doesn't always mean the marriage survives--but it does mean you can hold your head up high because you did everything you could!

Second, I grew up on a farm, so I do understand how that whole cycle works unlike some folks who just haven't lived that life, so no need to explain that to me. I think that makes talking a whole lot easier, don't you?

Okay, so here's the way I see it--tell me if you notice anything I got incorrect. Way back in 2009 (eight years ago), you signed up for this forum and you wrote that you just had this gut feeling that your wife was way too chatty with this fella, Jay, who was her old interest back in the day...like college, pre-you. Now she did MARRY you and life seemed okay, but at some point she took a job in the same company Jay and his buddy work for--way different departments and all, but same company--and that was the door he used to start things up again. At first, they texted, and you didn't see a smoking gun that she was cheating, so you asked her to stop and she said you were jealous and/or controlling etc.

Then you caught her at it again, and she said she was sorry but didn't stop. Then you caught her deleting texts, and caught her at it again and again, and a couple more times where she promised to stop but didn't. NOW--eight years later--she forgot her phone and you had a chance to look at it, and really she's been talking to this Jay fella all along, despite crying crocodile tears and telling you it was nothing and promising to stop, etc. They've been hiding it on a chat program, and she made his name be the name of his farm so you wouldn't be suspicious.

And in your head you can't decide if it is an affair or not, and is it worth blowing up your world over or not, and you're afraid if you lose her income your farm will go bankrupt, etc.
Is that about it??
______________________

Here's the thing: how do you define infidelity? unfaithfulness? adultery?

My definition is "Giving any affection, loyalty or companionship to any other person than me." (Disclaimer--I mean adult romantic love, not parent-child or siblings-family kind of love.) See, my Dear Hubby made a promise to me during our wedding that he would FORSAKE ALL OTHERS for me only, and that he would give 100% of his affection, 100% of his loyalty, and 100% of his companionship to me. So if he were to give some affection to another person (male or female), he would be giving away to them something that BELONGED TO ME. It's not his to give!

And if he gave some small bit of loyalty to some other person (male or female) above me, then he would be giving away to them something that was MINE! And finally if he preferred the companionship of some other person (male or female) over me and was giving them his "time" and "fun", then he would be taking from me something that he promised to only me!

So my definition of infidelity is being affectionate with someone other than your spouse--being loyal to someone other than your spouse--and preferring the companionship of someone else other than your spouse.

Again--I'm talking about the kind of affection where you flirt, and get a thrill out of their attention, and send little hearts or get them little gifts, or give them compliments on their looks...adult romantic affection. And I'm talking about defending someone else or supporting them or having their back rather than being united and completely behind your spouse. And I'm talking about given the choice between spending time with your spouse and spending time with this other person...and you can't wait to spend time with someone else! Right?

So using MY definition--give me 100% or it's unfaithfulness--you tell me? Has your wife been faithful? You tell me. Has she demonstrated to you WITH HER ACTIONS that she has given and is giving ALL OF HER AFFECTION to only you? Has she acted like she can not wait to kiss you or hold your hand or cuddle up with you on the couch? Don't think about her words--think about her ACTIONS for the last eight years. ;)

How about her loyalty? Has she demonstrated to you WITH HER ACTIONS that she is loyal to YOU and that she is standing behind her man? Has she acted like she has your back and would support you and be a united front with you even if she disagreed with you. Is it you and her against the world--or you against her? Don't think about her words--think about her ACTIONS for the last eight years. ;)

Finally let's consider companionship. Has she demonstrated to you WITH HER ACTIONS that she wants to spend time with you--both working and having fun? Does she act like she can't wait to be with you? Does she have fun with you? Does she enjoy your company and invest her time and energy with you? OR does she rush to get to her phone? Does she act like she can't wait to 'get this over with' so she can go back to doing something with someone else--or make excuses why she can't be with you? Does she find being with you boring, hurtful or just icky? Does she dislike your company and invest her time and energy with someone else? Don't think about her words--think about her ACTIONS for the last eight years. ;)

I think you have your answer. You don't really need to get any more of a smoking gun, do you? So what if she did or didn't sleep with some other person?

So really the question isn't, "Did she have an affair?" because in real life you know the answer to that question. NO ONE spends eight years secretly talking/texting/chatting with some other man and not have at least an emotional affair. And she is not investing her affection, loyalty and companionship with YOU.

The REAL issue here is facing reality. You don't want this to be real. You want to think that maybe there's some magical thing you could do or magical thing you could say that would make her drop Jay like a hot potato and love you! You hope that we can give you some advice that will let you keep her income, keep your income, keep your marriage, keep your family and keep your farm.

So here's the choice, @bremik. I believe in your heart you have known for a long time that what I'm saying is true. I am a Christian person, and I do not advocate for "open marriages" or "poly amory" or that sort of thing. But right now you get to choose: do you choose to accept how things have been going now for the past 8 years--or do you choose that the past 8 years are unacceptable and you will not continue. BOTH choices have a cost and a benefit:

Accept how things are going
Cost--You have to share your wife's heart and potentially her body with another man; you have to live in denial and constantly feel a little crazy
Benefit--You can keep your home and children and don't lose her income

'How things are going' is unacceptable
Cost-Lose her income, half the time with the kids, and VERY likely the farm
Benefit--You keep your self-worth because you are not sloppy seconds; you get to live in reality and have peace of mind

I won't kid you--a LOT of people choose to look past their spouse's infidelity in order to continue to live at their current standard of living. A LOT of people wring their hands and say they can't stand it anymore, and then make the decision to do nothing so they can keep their home, cars, property etc. They just don't want to say out loud that they are choosing to consciously pretend the affair didn't happen!

For you, I think the most profitable thing you can do for yourself right now is just get this through your head: FACE THE TRUTH. Your wife has already been unfaithful to you for eight years. If you do not intend to do anything about it, that is your choice: I'd say just admit to yourself out loud that you are choosing to let your wife be unfaithful. On the other hand, if you do not intend to let her continue her adultery, then that would mean that you will need to DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT...and that means that even though it hurts, you will have to live without her income and face possibly losing the farm. (Rather than lose the farm, if you actually love it why don't you show her the door and get a farm hand to help out in exchange for "room and board"? Just an idea! And before you say "Oh I just couldn't...." why not? Seriously?)

So @bremik figure that out first. FACE THE TRUTH. You tell us if you are going to choose to do nothing and accept it...or you are going to do something. If you are going to do nothing, I can't say everyone will agree with you, but at least you'd be honest with yourself and with us! But if you are going to do something, why then we'll talk again.

Let me know.
 
#122 ·
I feel like I should pay you for that! That was extremely well thought out and hit the nail on the head. In fact it really hit home with me because I have told my wife numerous times that her actions don't match her words. And I think I said on here that even though jay lived states away and SEEMED to be out of the picture I knew that at the very least if any type of contact occurred it would be more of the same. So yes I always knew deep down he wasn't really
gone. Thank you very much!!!
 
#113 ·
@bremik, what kinds of things did you find in the texts?

Any ILU's?

Any sexting?

Constant, prolonged contact or just an occasional text?

Were they ever -- at least as far as you're aware -- a couple, legimate or otherwise?
 
#118 ·
@bremik, what kinds of things did you find in the texts?



Any ILU's?



Any sexting?



Constant, prolonged contact or just an occasional text?



Were they ever -- at least as far as you're aware -- a couple, legimate or otherwise?


I am with Gus here. While it was cheating her going through all of this to maintain a relationship with this loser, the next steps are highly dependent upon what kind of relationship she is having.
 
#116 ·
Ok, I don't totally understand.
Are your wife and jay lovers?

What exactly are they texting about? Do you think she goes to see him and has sex?

I'm not in any way excusing the fact that another man is receiving your wife's attention.

I'm just not getting it. You say that there's nothing really bad in the texts. I would think there would be.

Are they lovers, or not?

If not, can you live with this crap?

Do you think your wife loves you, do you get lots of sex? Does she look forward to going places with you?

Please explain. I don't want to have to go. Ask to 2009 threads.

I just don't totally get her relationship with the jay guy. It's almost stupid sounding.

And have you had a discussion with jay's wife? Jay? If not, are you scared?

Do SOMETHING, if you're not happy. It's been 8 years, after all.
 
#128 ·
You have a lot of unknowns. It's not a certainty that this is an affair but it's certainly a betrayal of trust at this point.

You need to get to the bottom of how she and he traded contact information. If she is unwilling to do so then you should proceed as if this was a standard infidelity case and visit a lawyer, expose and the full transparency as a requirement for any hope of reconciliation.
 
#132 · (Edited)
And I also would consider reaching out to Jay and saying something between these 2 extremes:
1 we are trying to work on our marriage and your involvement is not welcome, so please stop all contact with my W
2 if you make contact with my W again, in any form, I will find you and beat your head in with a baseball bat
 
#188 ·
And I also would consider reaching out to Jay and saying something between these 2 extremes:
1 we are trying to work on our marriage and your involvement is not welcome, so please stop all contact with my W
2 if you make contact my W again, in any form, I will find you and beat your head in with a baseball bat.
See, this is one I would agree with if I was reading your post back in 2009. It is eight years later and anything you say, short of exposing this to his wife with no proof, is going to be a prank in his eyes. You chose to not fully investigate. Deep down, you are scared. You should have remained quiet, but you could not. In this way, you can cling onto the small hope it never went physical. You are a prime example of why I agree with going all in on checking and if possible hiring a good PI. Yes, if nothing happened it could cause a divorce, but in many of these threads with your level of poor behavior the marriage is already severely damaged.

Honestly, I'd make her text him in front of me and ask him what his favorite time/memory was with her. You've got nothing to lose now except more respect in her eyes, which shouldn't matter to you.
 
#135 ·
So you haven't asked her to take a polygraph?

At the beginning of this particular thread more than one man was mentioned. Is their actually a worry she has been unfaithful with more than one man?

Have you discussed this wth Jay's wife?

Long term affair partners don't usually talk/text each other any differently than long term marriage partners. So no sexting or discussing things regarding their sex life means nothing.
 
#136 ·
Thank you for explaining how you have worked to get to the point that loans are paid off and the farm is doing better. Also how your entire family is involved and this is a multi-generational project. It puts things into a different light than you simply wanting to do this despite it having no future and not bringing in enough to support you. It explains why you are having such trouble with the idea of divorce.

So you have two years before things change regarding the farm? I still think you need to look into how divorce would impact you and if you would be able to keep the farm for the family. If you don't know what all your options are, you cannot really make a decision, which will keep you in limbo indefinitely.

Right now you do know that your wife has been lying to you and putting another man between you. That is a betrayal whether or not she has been sexually involved with him. I think you also realize that the chances of there being no sexual tie is extremely remote. Is there are way you can live with her for two more years knowing this? Do you have a spare bedroom she could move into?
 
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