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Wife's Emotional Affair - now what?

37K views 87 replies 32 participants last post by  X-unknown 
#1 ·
A quick history. Our marriage (20+ years) has been a bit neglected. Lots of stress and crisis (Finance, Kids etc) Our sex life went to rare and lots of feelings of mutual rejection (That we learned in Couples Therapy)

One of the revelations in couples therapy is her long term Emotional affair.

When my gut started telling me that things were not right I checked the cell bill (Way too late btw) and the "just a friend" started looking like a lot more with the volume of calls. Anyway, she was not forthcoming until the therapist called her out and even then it wasn't a big deal until I confronted her with the cell info. Now, its "I didn't have any idea it was that often" I feel a bit guilty for snooping but I also feel like a sap for not having clued into this long ago. I also regret telling her about how I know this because I suppose she can phone from work or pick up one of those pay as you go phones. *Which worries me.

Anyway our rarely sexual relationship went to mega active. That ought to feel great but I get the nagging feeling it might be a mask so that we don't deal anymore with the "just a friend" topic. Speaking of which I'm reading a book by that title and the examples all look like matches for whats going on with us.

I guess the snooping thing and how others are dealing with EAs would be of great interest.
 
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#50 ·
Speaking as a person who has myself been in her position, all roads lead to sex my EA of two years I never allowed myself to cross a line. I even told myself that I was not attracted to this person in that way.
But it did eventually lead to that, and I even justified it in my head because I am in a marriage with a person who is very controlling and emotionally abusive. Yes I regret it now, but can recognize these actions in other people. and can't believe their spouses do not see it..
 
#51 ·
I had to take a mental vacation from this (my) thread. This was getting tough tough tough tough tough (As Mick Jagger says in "Shattered or was it When the whip comes down)

I had a message (thanks Chap) asking me for an update. So... #1 I went into take care of me mode. My doctor judged that I was taking this really really hard and put me on a few meds. This has helped me NOT spend my entire waking day feeling lower then whale poop. I also started doing therapy (myself) and got together a "this is just not going to work plan" and my wife picked up on that (girl radar) right away. I told her that her radar was 100% correct but that I was still working on this with her. She told me (in therapy) that she was sorry if she did something that made me feel bad. Which I thought was the lousiest self serving babble ever and told her that was worse then no apology. It was more like saying "I'm sorry your so thin skinned that I can't go off with other men" and told her so.

We ended up reading a lot of books. "Not just friends" was a good one. The couples therapist gave her some "read this" and pried more of what she was up to with the other man. Can't remember the title (exactly) but there is this really thin book about helping your partner get over your affair or? Anyway I flipped through that and got a copy for WW. She told me that "Not just friends" really hit her, that the how to heal your spouse after your affair? helped her understand better what was going on with me. And.... she gave me a REAL apology and broke down and told me how it was really not "just friends" and that it wasn't just him chasing her around it was mutual. So, I had one of those "Which way do I go with this?" and it was really hard.. but the one thing that made me stick with this and try to fix it is that way before I had a clue about this going on she was the one to ask for couples therapy. That and her coming clean (Humm.... at least coming MORE clean) with me made up my mind to keep giving this a chance. I found a BAN group (Spouses who were cheated on type of thing) Really eye opening and I want to say that it was of value to be able to talk it out and hear that we are not even close to being alone in this. *Not that this makes it "ok" it just makes it a tiny bit less "is this just me?"

So - we made it past Valentines day which was a tough one. I kind of did the "fake it until you make it" which has been maybe the best advice I got. I was told that its the 12 step program condensed (I don't know and hopefully that not an insult) Anyway I got a very odd V-Day card which was is a keeper. For that (Hopefully) day I can look back at this and not tense up and want to rip my own head off.

Ok, one reply on the all roads lead to sex when you have an EA. I think this is focused on too much. Someone else said this better then I will but her being in love with another man is "ok" compared to her having sex? I brought that up at the BAN meeting and everyone went around saying they all felt the EA was worse then some random one night stand. And the long term lying etc were the worst. So I guess I'm saying sex? Or not? Its not a hill of beans different to me at this point.

Not that I didn't get HIV / STD tests. (I'm not infected with anything)

Another thing is that there are a pretty fair number of people who were able to survive (Stay Married). They gave some good ideas and one of them is to keep going to group meetings. I think for a variety of reasons.

Anyway I really feel for the people who are just starting to deal with this. I watched three people come close to falling apart at the BAN meeting and my heart goes out to them. I wish there was some way to show the wayward ones a picture of them to show how much this hurts the people they are screwing around on. Maybe it would make the world a "bit" less 60 to 70% cheating over the course of a marriage? Or not... Its a sad world.

OK, I've babbled enough. Hang in there guys and girls. I nearly let this crap kill me (Serious stress health issues) So it could be worse!
 
#53 · (Edited)
Thanks for the update. It appears that you have made some progress.

She told me (in therapy) that she was sorry if she did something that made me feel bad. Which I thought was the lousiest self serving babble ever and told her that was worse then no apology.
You were right in calling her out for the "sorry if she did something that made" you feel bad comment. It is a false apology since it is not acknowledging that she did anything wrong.

I brought that up at the BAN meeting and everyone went around saying they all felt the EA was worse then some random one night stand. And the long term lying etc were the worst. So I guess I'm saying sex? Or not? Its not a hill of beans different to me at this point.
EAs are by definition long term and ONS are by definition one off, thus the EA being worse than a ONS is a loaded question that does not address the physical affair (PA) aspect of an EA. If a EA goes physical, the the PA is long term and not a one off thing. The physical sex aspect of an EA is also more intimate and bonding and this needs to be addressed for you to be able to heal. You giving her a pass on this is nothing more than rug sweeping. You need to know and the sooner that you know the sooner you can begin true reconciliation.

As for you saying that 60% to 70% will cheat over the course of a marraige, that number has been thrown out there based on one questionable study and is used to make people feel better about being cheated on. Most university and other major studies put the number much lower, such as a major University of Chicago study which put men at 22% and women at 15%; these numbers are similar to the results of a study by MSNBC.

Be well and good luck. Thanks again for the update.
 
#52 ·
This looks like you are on the way to healing. You and your wife are still together. Are you certain when they ended contact? Did she end contact because she thought she would lose you? Ever talk to the other man? Do you think you will save the marriage? Is she 100% committed?
 
#56 ·
Buddy, I read your thread. I do not understand what you want from this thread. When advised by some, you say you already know, have done VAR etc. If you have known that your wife cheated even emmotionally - I see that for you ONS is okay rather than an EA - what are you seeking here?

Are you trying to validate what you have done?
If EA was the deal breaker, you already have your answer.
Posted via Mobile Device
 
#60 ·
I know long messages can be a pain to read so I understand that your not reading my posts. If you had read them you would see that I did NOT buy a VAR and that was one of the early "arguments". I think I even mention this in the previous message as an example. Let me try again. I caught my wife making hundreds of calls to her "boyfriend" Got an admission of an EA. I made the point that it wasn't important to have more proof (you got that part right). I made a comment wasted money when I know enough to ponder "D" already. ie Buying a VAR is a waste of money. I got a messages about how I'm bad for not spending money on this because my marriage is important...

You asked why did I come here? Thats a fair question. And one that maybe I just didn't spell out or I did it badly. I came here to see if anyone had R. I wanted to hear what they did and then make up my mind on how to proceed. Thats really the core. Whats your story? what was important? and then I choose to make up my mind how I will proceed. For gosh sakes does that sound so unreasonable? I've got a fair number of friends who D because of some infidelity. I don't know anyone that has R And anyway I can't ask them because I'm not willing to drag them into this and have a "Whose side are you on?" situation. But if I did and my best friend in the world told me what to do I would not feel obligated to do what he suggested. Would you or anyone else say that everyone's experience is the same and have the black and white answer to infidelity?
 
#57 ·
I get it also.
But stop telling me I'm not qualified (my tone is humor) just b/c I can't spell doesn't mean I have a valid view point (my tone is still humor).

Seriously, I'm glad you posted your point. TAM realy is a forum that folks should take what they need and leave what doesn't help.

TRy mentions reality checks, I think that is also is a big part of CWI often its hard to see through the forest, and others perspective also offer a point of view from the outside looking in.....if you know what I mean.

It should always be the individuals choice to use any advice professional or other wise when it comes to dealing with infidelity. Everyone can say that this is the hardest thing to ever deal with and unfortunely we are no alone.
 
#59 ·
I can't decide? Laugh or pull the plug. You just said your not the Judge or Executioner your just my Jury? I want my Lawyer! Who btw is the Judge?

So people are supposed to come here to get a verdict? Which is? What? Guilty of causing this? and or guilty of not dealing with it the way the Jury of my Peers would? For real?

Wow...... Really. just Wow.... I don't know what to say to that. I'm sort of speechless
If you can't swim, stay out of the water dude. We're just electrons on your computer screen... We don't know you, and frankly we don't really care what you do nor do we wish to expend the emotional energy worrying about what happens to you one way or another.

You came here for advice and we gave it. If you don't like our answers, go visit another website and quit wasting everyone's time.
 
#62 ·
Oh crap its late I can't sleep and I get your message... SIGH

Bandit45: Swim? Water? but what does that even mean?

I know I type out long messages and its a pain to read "books" by some dude on the internet but reading mine will take a minute or two. Would you be willing to lighten up for like two minutes and read this? I would appreciate it. And everyone else that wants to? Jump in

I'm dying of curiosity. Bandit45 How did you make out?

A: Did you do everything per the book (here)

B: Did you Divorce or not?

And if not? How is it going? And for how long?

Answering that would help me understand your experience. Which I thought would be an important point of this forum. I'm curious.

re the last or second to last reply I made. I am very interested in experiences and outcomes but heres the deal. I'm not interested in knowing more about Divorce. I have all the knowledge and lawyers that I need. I'm not interested in better ways to spy or monitor my wife. *Talked about that more then once and I don't want to explain it again. I'm not interested in finding new ways to motivate my wife. Right? Wrong? BUZZ Sorry but the only vote that counts is mine. I'm an adult and I can agree to disagree. Or at the least I don't care if my decisions about my life aren't ok with anyone else. I WILL listen. I've read most of the posts here and a large stack of books. I don't agree with the one shoe fits all thing. At least for now

The other side is that maybe a lot of you will tell me your experience (A B C) and I will change my mind. I still have the only vote that counts but in my universe I vote in a new decision at any time. Not every 4 years.

Its not a matter of me "liking" what I'm told. I choose to take some advice and not others. Admission time: I don't like being "told" what to do. Sorry thats just me. So whats up? Are you offended because I don't agree with everything = he is demeaning our genius = so we don't like him.

I know this place is filled with a lot of angry and hurt people. I also know that joining this "club" is not something any of us wanted to do. Yeah I've snapped at people when I've gotten overloaded. Which I admit is easier while I'm in the middle of this. And yeah it bothers me (a bit) reading a critical post on what I'm doing. But maybe I'm reading TONE in an email which might be my imagination? I'm not saying to anyone "This is the right way and other ways are bad or that the people who make them are dumb or evil or whatever"

I've said several times that some of the words of wisdom here were right on for us. Its just that some of it (I think) would not work for us. Part of how I've made my decisions has been by talking to a therapist. Which is one of the things I suggest. I also suggest talking to your doctor about this and depression. In short - Bring in the professionals. Which I think someone posted they disagreed. Or was that someone elses thread? It doesn't matter... I disagree with that and I while I think I'm right? I understand there might be complicated reasons someone does not want to go to a doctor or they have some stigma about shrinks and pills for depression. Its ok with me! I honestly feel bad for everyone here. As to how you lead your life? I think its your biz. While your still (hopefully) chilling out - do we agree on anything?

OK the 2 minutes are probably up so Flame On Johnny Storm.

OR

If you can stay chilly for a couple more minutes Read my last two replies in this thread. Take out the tone. *I know there is serious tone in my reply because I strongly object to having any internet group of people become my peers or my jury without my say so. I also get uptight when someone hands out opinions without reading the material. Or at least comments on things I didn't say. If this was happening to you I doubt you would like it either. You wanted to jump into this thread - now your here. What do you say? Can we both be civil and a bit more understanding of what the other person is going through? As for me its way late and I'm going to bed.
 
#65 ·
I think the reason people keep advising more investigation is that they don't think you know if the affair has gone physical. For many, they may be able to deal with an EA for example but not a PA. Other people might be able to handle a one night stand but not an EA, even a long term affair that is not a love story etc.

In other words they think you are rugsweeping.
 
#67 ·
The OP is rug sweeping and believes that rug sweeping is the correct course of action. Below is a post by the OP which explains why he would want to rug sweep.
Truth be told I'm kind of freaked out about finding out. Right now I've gotten to the point that I'm handling the EA (Assuming its over) but I think adding in sex makes this into a much more difficult issue. I think we could still move forward but I'm a little worried that I it might make me explode.
@OP: Rug sweeping prevents most people from being able to heal and truly move forward on reconciliation. It also often allows the affair to continue underground at a reduced or more dormant level. Additionally, rug sweeping lets them know that their will be reduced consequences for their cheating and thus encourages them to cheat again.

Of course you and your wife are a unique situation so none of what I just said about rug sweeping may apply to you. I think that it does apply, but you are the only vote that counts. Here is hoping that I am wrong. You are in a bad place that is not of your making and rug sweeping is so tempting as you just want this mess to be over so that you can go back to the life that you had before.
 
#66 ·
I'm not one of those 'hurt and angry people', I guess, since I haven't experienced infidelity in my marriage. Most people just assume that you will accept the replies that help, and avoid those that don't. They really don't offer them as judge, juror, peer, or non-paid consultant.

It seems as if there is some confusion about the role of a marriage counselor when you indicate that some replies do not mesh with the therapist's advice. Based on what almost every marriage counselor has told my wife and me, their job is to bring the two of you closer into a more harmonious marriage. Since many do not believe that there is any value in exploring specific details of an affair, at least when it comes to reconciliation, this will not be on their radar. The best they will do is seek to find the place where you are willing to let it go, and then proceed from there. Seems out of place to compare their opinion to the opinion of a person who thought that you were interested in learning the facts.
 
#69 ·
Your wife might have had a physical affair. She might not have. You don’t really know one way or the other. Some people can put those doubts out of their mind. Some people can’t. As you admit, she might still be in contact with him. You don’t really know as she could have bought a burner phone or be chatting from work.

Several suggestions were offered (VAR and Keylogger) that have helped confirm whether contact is still taking place in many other instances. No one really cares if you accept the advice as coming from “peers“ or not. No one disputes that you can take or ignore any advice as you see fit. At the end of the day 90% of these stories all read the same and the same advice is applicable to most. The pitfalls for ignoring advice are often the same. Everyone thinks they’re the unique snowflake with misunderstood or extenuating circumstances.

The point is, you decided that you didn’t need/want to know any more details and were ready to move on. She admitted to an EA so it wouldn’t change the picture for you if she had slept with him, you imply. Whether that’s your honest feeling or the fear of harsh reality is unclear. Only you know whether you can truly move forward and reconcile without constant nagging doubts about what truly happened or the extent that contact is still taking place.
 
#70 ·
X, you wanted to hear from someone in R, well here I am; as are many of us. We still participate in this forum because recovery is hard. There are still wounds that will never heal. But like w/ any physical injury, you learn to deal w/ them. You may limp, but you don't have to be a cripple. The biggest injury is the ability to trust. You have to learn that the one you must trust first is yourself. Trust in others is always conditional. Like you, I did not need all the gory details. I had enough evidence to make my decisions and proceeded accordingly. I was on the way out the door when she stopped me. I did not get the keylogger and VAR, at first. However, there have been times over the years when the old insecurities surfaced. Years after the affair I did get a keylogger and VAR and used them for a short period of time, just to reassure myself. I found nothing and felt like crap for doing it, but it was something I had to do at the time, so no regrets. I wish you well w/ your R. It's a long road, w/ more than a few bumps. I believe it was worth it.
 
#71 ·
I can't believe its been a year since that last post. Anyway, I was asked to post an update. So here it goes.

I saw a doctor about depression etc and got on some meds to make it possible for me to make rational decisions and actions.

I've learned how far the affair really went.

I've read more books.

I'm a regular at attended a group meeting (BAN Smart Marriages) and quizzed people who have reconciled. I've learned that Divorce is easy. Reconciling is hard! We've listened to lots of Podcasts from people who reconciled and told how they did it.

We continue to do couples therapy. I think very highly of the person who has worked with us, how it went and I think its going to be a success.

We both (now) are doing individual therapy. And its not about wanting to kill myself or kill the other man. I think its helped a lot.

This affair is easily the worst thing thats ever happened to me. Betrayal from the one most important to you is just... The worst. Because this is the most important person to me I decided it was worth trying even tho its hard.

Here is where I am. I ask myself "Is this better then it was? Is it going that way more then going bad? The answer is yes its better and it keeps getting better. So we keep slogging through this step after step.

I stand by my comments about professional help and taking care of yourself (If your dealing with clinical depression or Anxiety) I strongly disagree with the one plan or scenario fits all. I think details of what happened in your cases are invaluable to others who have never had this happen to them. I think making suggestions are fine. I still think anyone demeaning others for not following "the" plan should get a degree to do couples therapy first.

I hope you are all doing well and are finding some peace of mind.
 
#73 ·
Q: Did you find out if the affair was physical?
A: Yes.

Q:What has happend to OM?
A: In what way? She sent him a no contact email and she says (And I've verified) that there is no contact. I saw him at a social function and he immediately left.

Q:Do you think your wife is happy now?
A: She is remorseful. She tells me that she is angry with the other man because of how he seduced her. She is happy because we didn't split up.

In a general way - happy? Therapy / meds all that... Yes I think so. Its been very difficult getting here. My take on this is that we had (have) a nearly unlimited number of ways to split up. We could decide this or that was too much or that we can't stand ______ anymore and so on. The difficult path is deciding to work on staying together. Its a lot of work.
 
#75 ·
I give you credit for staying X.

From your posts it was clear how badly her cheating was hurting you both mentally and physically.

Many of us on TAM are pro marriage/ pro reconciliation if the cheater is remorseful and willing to do the hard work.

But it takes two strong spouses for a succesful reconciliation.

And it takes years.

I wish you success, not luck. And I hope your wife proves to love you just as much as you love her.

Because from the efforts you have shown her, she has some catching up to do to.....

Peace

HM64
 
#78 ·
X I am starting to think I see what is an important point in your position that can get forgotten, and it like medication for learning disabilities. Not all drugs work the same on all patients, some work 70% of the time some 50% and some work best in combination. You never know what will work until you try things out. Each of us sees that something needs to be done and each of us knows somethings that work and some that don't, but the only way to find out is to use what you think will work for you. Yes its a gamble, and lots of times you don't get what you want or expect. I guess doing something is better than nothing, and thats the gist of it, do something, You did and with luck and love and effort it will work, All the best.
 
#85 ·
Hopefully you won't be pilloried for saying a few kind words!

Its only me, but the remorse part has been a huge part in my decision. When tears can float a boat and you've heard "I'm Sorry" everyday for months along with a long list of how awful they are... Well it makes a difference. The trust part is (Again this is just me) the most difficult part. Her being as transparent as she can be (No secret passwords on anything) and so forth are another piece.

The willingness to take responsibility for the affair helps (me). I've read quite a few books that say affairs don't happen in a vaccum and the betrayed spouse should look inside to see what part they played in it. That part is very difficult for me. I guess the obvious part is that it sounds like I'm supposed to accept some blame for the affair. And while I know the authors of these things don't say that it still makes my hairs stand up. There is a book that has been really difficult to read called "When good people have affairs" as it talks about some rationalizations for having affairs. One thing that helped me was this comment. "No one sits down and wonders what kind of affair would hurt their spouse the most. Its not thinking about the spouse or how this would hurt them that is the problem."

In the same context I've tried to understand when it became a "them" versus "us" and this repeat thought has almost made me a basket case. Long term affairs make it more difficult to understand when things happened and what was going on. Speaking of which - one of the people at a BAN meeting told us their spouse had a one night stand and for a short (very short) time I thought "How Lucky you are!" Like thats in anyway better then anyone else's affair? Soooooo dumb. It might be less complicated but are you "betrayed less?" Of course not.
 
#87 ·
Hopefully you won't be pilloried for saying a few kind words!

Its only me, but the remorse part has been a huge part in my decision. When tears can float a boat and you've heard "I'm Sorry" everyday for months along with a long list of how awful they are... Well it makes a difference. The trust part is (Again this is just me) the most difficult part. Her being as transparent as she can be (No secret passwords on anything) and so forth are another piece.

The willingness to take responsibility for the affair helps (me). I've read quite a few books that say affairs don't happen in a vaccum and the betrayed spouse should look inside to see what part they played in it. That part is very difficult for me. I guess the obvious part is that it sounds like I'm supposed to accept some blame for the affair. And while I know the authors of these things don't say that it still makes my hairs stand up. There is a book that has been really difficult to read called "When good people have affairs" as it talks about some rationalizations for having affairs. One thing that helped me was this comment. "No one sits down and wonders what kind of affair would hurt their spouse the most. Its not thinking about the spouse or how this would hurt them that is the problem."
In the same context I've tried to understand when it became a "them" versus "us" and this repeat thought has almost made me a basket case. Long term affairs make it more difficult to understand when things happened and what was going on. Speaking of which - one of the people at a BAN meeting told us their spouse had a one night stand and for a short (very short) time I thought "How Lucky you are!" Like thats in anyway better then anyone else's affair? Soooooo dumb. It might be less complicated but are you "betrayed less?" Of course not.
Very true.

And you can take responsibility for the demise of the marriage. I am sure you both can share or take part of the responsibility.

But you did not decide to cheat. That your wife has to own, accept responsibility and make the effort to understand why she chose so poorly.

She needs to do that in order to heal and ensure she will not make the same mistake.'

Then you both can start fixing what is broken.
 
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