Even though the rate of divorce in the US has remained largely stable in recent years, American divorce lawyers and academics have joined Middle East analysts in picking out Facebook as a leading cause of relationship trouble, with American lawyers now demanding to see their clients' Facebook pages as a matter of course before the start of proceedings.
If facebook was the cause of the instability, why would the divorce rate stay stable? Maybe it is just a new outlet for the same behavior? Or maybe it's just that lawyers find the evidence for the activity to be more obvious on facebook, and harder to deny. The last sentence seems to indicate to me that this last one may be a big part of this. So maybe this is more a change of behavior of lawyers based on what they've learned, and not a change of behavior of married people?
I actually have to cite this next paragraph as summing up what I read in that article:
Quote:
Yet while the US media has been quick to trumpet any evidence of Facebook as the country's leading marriage-wrecker, the truth is "It's complicated," as the site's relationship status would have it.
I'm sorry, but I don't think the article you linked to supports your assertions. I think it does say that evidence that can be used in divorce can be easily obtained from facebook, but that's not saying that facebook is a market leader in divorce, and it also does not say that facebook is a leading cause of relationship problems.
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Re: The Facebook Fuss - Frustrated Friendships?
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2nd_t!me iz_best
facebook is a cesspool of evilness.
i would NEVER be caught on there.
that is where all things evil congregate these days.
I think it is what you make of it. Rather than post the same thing again, may I ask you to look at post #60 on this thread - a post I made at 10:23 this morning. Do you disagree with what I stated there? Is it possible that facebook can really be a good tool, and that it is what someone makes of it?
I think very much like Shy Guy on the whole Facebook Front.
I think we all use it for some purpose more than another... I use mine mostly for sharing pictures that I take of my kids & their friends, or just other people when I am out & about...just a hobby of mine... I rarely even post on there, but I do enjoy having it ... seeing what old friends are up too -if they come to my mind that day... dropping a line.
Even though I hardly use it, I love having it & I would never give up my FB ! My husband spends more time checking out what our oldest son is up too at College....he keeps me informed.
I think it is what you make of it. Rather than post the same thing again, may I ask you to look at post #60 on this thread - a post I made at 10:23 this morning. Do you disagree with what I stated there? Is it possible that facebook can really be a good tool, and that it is what someone makes of it?
evil comes in many forms.
it can be as intimidating
or as pretty
as it wants.
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Re: The Facebook Fuss - Frustrated Friendships?
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2nd_t!me iz_best
evil comes in many forms.
it can be as intimidating
or as pretty
as it wants.
I agree with the words. The area of contention is whether or not facebook fits into one of those forms of evil. We could have the same discussion about TAM I suppose - both are just social media. They have a little different format, but the same basic ways a person could get into trouble.
With facebook, I do keep up with friends as I said and share with them. I categorize so that the friends who would occupy all my time with controversial posts can't really do that. I spend time helping people find jobs, and I share exciting times and pictures.
I probably get more temptation through email than I do through facebook, despite all the spam and junk filters, but I can't do my job even without email. I can do my job without facebook, but I could use it for my job if I wanted - I don't (work/life balance, you know).
At one time, women had the gossip fence and men had coon hunts. Socialization has changed a bit these days ... for that matter, even coon hunts and gossip fences were developments at one time ... I think facebook is a tool. It can be a great tool. It depends on what you choose to do with it.
I will assert that online and real-world are not mutually exclusive. You like to plant a garden, so plant a garden. But does everybody need to plant a garden? My wife and I love to hike and camp, so we do just that. Does that mean everybody needs to hike and camp? What about our skiing? Kite-surfing? Other hobbies we have?
But then on facebook, I find a group of military guys with my old military skill who are about to get out of the military, and they are very concerned about how their skills may translate in the civilian world. They want advice on building soft skills to be successful in interviews, and tips from people who have already been there about what skills they need to build, and where they need to build them in order to be able to have a relevant job in the civilian world and thus be able to support their families when they get out. Several of us saw this as a real need, and we recognize the comeradery we had when we were in the military. We wanted to offer help to these younger guys who have the same concerns we had. We started a closed facebook group specifically for this help exchange. We have over 200 members there currently, and we share everything from job fair information to interview tips. I assert that this is participating on facebook in the real world, and giving real help to someone who needs it. Should everyone do that? No, I'm not saying that, but I'm saying that these technologies are what you make of them, and you can make use of them for real-world helpful activities.
No, of course no one NEEDS to do anything like that It just irks me that these things are such a time suck, and people who might get so much enjoyment out of the real thing, spend it in front of a computer screen... for. hours. on. end.
Of course Facebook only provides these time wasters to people, and I do recognise that it is what people make of it. By no means (as I said, I find that FB leaves people feeling like they can take no blame or reponsibility for a lot of things) am I saying that it is the fault of a social media site that these people spend hours on it- their choice entirely, they can log off anytime. The invention of the internet has led to many wonderful things, I just don't see FB as one of the top priorities on that list. It is disappointing to think that the virtual world is taking so much away from reality.
And yes, what you are providing people with is helpful, no question about that. But it also could have possibly been done on another media, so you're not getting any kudos directed to Facebook from me yet You guys take the cake for that.
In saying that I do recognise what good can come of it, I see so many more things I don't like come from it. I don't like they way they track your info, I don't like the way privacy laws are overhauled every 5 seconds. I don't like the way people I have no wish to contact are able to contact me. I also don't like the fact that things I would like to use or participate in are becoming harder to use or cannot be used if you are not signed in to Facebook. But I don't like or agree with it, so I just don't have an account anymore. Easy
That, of course, doesn't mean that nobody else can.
Myspace is what got my H's first A busted. So it is just media bull that it is facebook, all social media makes the risk higher and right now face book is still the IT site, it will change eventually.
There is just so much wrong with the People using these social sites that makes them noteable as a cause to divorce and other problems like bullying. I have seen friends litterally end their friendships of years over some comment made on fb. It is like some people's brains shut off because they are safe behind the computer screen.
Hey does anyone remeber when eggs were bad for your health?? It is the media doing what they do best pushing propoganda that will make people listen and when it is a popular site they are going to "name drop" to get read and ratings. That is how it works.
As long as you can stand back from FB and see it as a tool, that's the best way to go.
When I had a look at the interaction between my bf and his socalled friend, I saw that over the 3 months, she had signed on his wall 15 times. A total of 21 times over 12 months......but also 5 of those 15 times over the three months were in the week that I was coming back from a 3 week trip.
She liked commenting on his article sharing and relating everything back to her profession as a social worker. But the Friday before the Sunday I cam back, she ended her entry on my bf's wall with "thanks for giving me something to read on my way to a home visit."
She always had to "like" concerts that my bf mentioned which were also concerts that he went to without me. I noticed on one occasion he mentioned 4 concerts in one entry, one of which we had gone together and she did her "like." By December, he and I went to a concert together. HE didn't mention it on his wall. He later on admitted that he went to a concert with her but he also didn't mention it on his wall. I'm assuming he didn't want another one of her "like" on his wall.
Maybe if I had seen these entries in real time, I would have known that a problem was developing. Now I know and would advise anyone to monitor the same thing.
By contrast, since I can see that her boyfriend keeps his wall publicly available, I can see that on his wall over a period of 15 months, she's only signed on his wall 18 times. Okay, so maybe they have different kind of relationship.
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Re: The Facebook Fuss - Frustrated Friendships?
NTA, I think what you're describing is a set of agreements and partnerships you have (or people need to have) around the medium. I think that is a good thing. We have a set of agreements as well.
Like anything, I try to set boundaries to avoid temptation for myself, and to make sure I am showing proper respect to my wife. I expect some partnership from her in this. My facebook activity, like my email and my other activity, is open to her (and it sounds like his is to you as well). She looks at it with me sometimes. I have both male and female friends, and I would expect them to expect that anything they open up to me is opened up to my wife as well. If my wife becomes uncomfortable with the activity of a friend, we will discuss it. I want to be sure she feels like I am respecting her. If it is uncomfortable, and we don't have an explanation that works, then I will unfriend that person.
I have unfriended a couple of female friends without my wife's promting because it became uncomfortable to me. The nature of their conversation became something I didn't feel comfortable carrying on in front of my wife, so it was time to terminate it with them. I would do the same on here if I saw it, or I would do the same if my wife had a problem with either place. The bottom line is that I want to be with my wife, and want us to happy together, and this is part of partnering together to accomplish that goal of being happy together.
It's a different tool, but the same principles that we use elsewhere.
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Re: The Facebook Fuss - Frustrated Friendships?
Quote:
Originally Posted by alone_not_lonely
No, of course no one NEEDS to do anything like that It just irks me that these things are such a time suck, and people who might get so much enjoyment out of the real thing, spend it in front of a computer screen... for. hours. on. end.
Of course Facebook only provides these time wasters to people, and I do recognise that it is what people make of it. By no means (as I said, I find that FB leaves people feeling like they can take no blame or reponsibility for a lot of things) am I saying that it is the fault of a social media site that these people spend hours on it- their choice entirely, they can log off anytime. The invention of the internet has led to many wonderful things, I just don't see FB as one of the top priorities on that list. It is disappointing to think that the virtual world is taking so much away from reality.
And yes, what you are providing people with is helpful, no question about that. But it also could have possibly been done on another media, so you're not getting any kudos directed to Facebook from me yet You guys take the cake for that.
In saying that I do recognise what good can come of it, I see so many more things I don't like come from it. I don't like they way they track your info, I don't like the way privacy laws are overhauled every 5 seconds. I don't like the way people I have no wish to contact are able to contact me. I also don't like the fact that things I would like to use or participate in are becoming harder to use or cannot be used if you are not signed in to Facebook. But I don't like or agree with it, so I just don't have an account anymore. Easy
That, of course, doesn't mean that nobody else can.
Although I have been defending facebook (and still do), I have an observation about electronic media in general that can make it a problem. I think this may be some of what happened to your friends.
It seems to me that there is an emotional connection that we have when we are face to face that raises some inhibitions that are there for smooth social interaction. I think voice must carry some of these emotions that bring up inhibitions, but not quite to the level of being face to face. I've noticed that many of these inhibitions are lowered when we are communicating across electronic media where there is neither voice, nor vocal interaction. I think it's something we have to be aware of about ourselves.
Even back to ICQ, which was an IM program that my kids and I first started this electronic communication with, I noticed a difference in communication with some people. I had to step in on a couple of conversations wtih my daughters back in those days because people became what we thought was verbally abusive. I don't think people would talk like this face to face because there is the concern that someone is going to flatten their nose all over their face if they did. I think recognizing this tendency is the first step both with the sender and the receiver in dealing with it. Even on here, I think I can usually deal with someone when they become emotional. It's a new communication skill that we have to learn. It's not actually new, it's just something that some people have to deal with regularly in face to face meetings, and others much more rarely, so for those that have to deal with it much more rarely, perhaps it is more difficult.
There is also the fact that facial expressions, voice intonation, and other non-verbal cues that we normally give in person are not present in text. I notice my boss has a greater tendency to get his feelings hurt in email communication than he does face to face. I've had to adjust my method of communicating over email in order to deal with this. He doesn't seem to hear the voice tone I'm writing with like he can when he hears me speaking it.
However; the team I work on is literally worldwide. The engagements I am involved with are currently in France, Korea, Mexico, and the US. There is no way I can conduct all of this face to face, so electronic communication is a must. Therefore, to be successful on this, I need to learn the extra skill to communicate via electronic media. When a person gets this skill, and recognizes the dropping of inhibition of the other party, and can deal with that, then electronic communication is very effective, but a person needs to recognize it and be able to deal with it.
Facebook is just another electronic media. It is a great tool for communication. People need a new communication skill to be able to use it effectively and be able to maintain healthy relationships.
A lot of the stories about maintaining and selling personal information are exaggerated. However; with more and more businesses offering cloud or web based applications, more companies are making use of one of the existing identity verification services. The three that are most commonly used right now are Live; Facebook, and Google. The websites make a call with the login information you give them and verify your account. It's not to verify you really are who you say you are - it's just an account verification like a login to a computer. So someone needs to know those credentials to be able to access the account you create on that site. By using those id services, they don't have to store passwords, etc. or create a new verification process for every application. They just redirect to an existing service, make sure the credential passed are valid, and if the service says they are, the app associates that connection with the account and allows the appropriate access. This actually reduces the number of vectors of account attack. If you don't like facebook, then create a live or hotmail account and create a passport account when you create them, then you can use that for almost anyplace that needs a web login.
Facebook and other electronic media do not give a person exercise. But as I see it, they are really no different than sitting down and playing a game of Sudoku (Something I do until I love to hate it). I don't play games on facebook, but I can't claim to be above it because I spend the time playing Sudoku, or coming to TAM for that matter and bantering with faceless people here. But I also recognize the needs of my physical body, and I get up and workout. It's a matter of keeping everything in balance. I agree people should do that.
I see so many more things I don't like come from it. I don't like they way they track your info, I don't like the way privacy laws are overhauled every 5 seconds. I don't like the way people I have no wish to contact are able to contact me. I also don't like the fact that things I would like to use or participate in are becoming harder to use or cannot be used if you are not signed in to Facebook. But I don't like or agree with it, so I just don't have an account. That, of course, doesn't mean that nobody else can.
DITTO, DITTO, DITTO!!!!! Could not have said it better myself. Once you're on FB, it's like they OWN you!
On one hand, it's just a conduit, and it is what you make it. However, some nuances of how Facebook works are, seriously, missed by some who use it. One of my personal issues is keeping people on friends lists who maybe shouldn't be there. Such as an ex husband or lover. There have been endless arguments about exes on Facebook here, and I've had one now and again with my wife.
The thing that irks me most is that, unless you understand the nuances of Facebook security your efforts to control your data may be falling short. It's not deceptive, it's just confusing to the casual user. There are some simple tools that may seem to put up a wall, but to really implement boundaries takes some effort that many don't understand.
Even if you decide to keep an ex on your friends list (as a social courtesy) and choose to remove your ex's posts from your news feed so you don't see them, your ex is free to set up their news feed so that every one of your posts show on on their wall and they receive text messages whenever you post.
To prevent your ex from seeing your daily posts requires differentiating your ex from your closer friends by declaring each friend as either a "close friend," "friend," "acquaintance, " or "restricted" At that point, you can say that your posts are visible to "friends but not acquaintances" or just "close friends."
My point is that it's not impossible to do this, but the process requires you to be proactive.
What's the big deal? It depends.
* Keeping an ex on your friends list shows all of your friends that you are still friends with your ex. They can take that to mean whatever they wish. It may show that you are magnanimous and loving, or may imply that you are leaving a door open. Your ex may think they still have a chance. Your current partner might well think your ex still has a chance. Even if you think that keeping your ex on a friends list is a friendly gesture, you can't control how other people feel or what they think about your friendly gesture. They are free to fill in the blanks. By making such a public display of the ongoing connection, they will speculate as they will.
* If you take Facebook default settings, you may get a picture of your ex showing on your own news feed multiple times a day. This might serve as a reminder of the bad, but it may also remind you of the good. If you are in the process of letting go of a past lover, you may well end up stimulating the pleasure centers of your brain multiple times daily.
* If you take Facebook default settings, your ex can read all of your unrestricted posts. If an ex is having difficulty making a break, this can essentially tease the ex in perpetuity. Again, the pleasure center of your ex's brain will be stimulated by YOUR picture multiple times a day.
* Likes, posts, comments, etc, by your ex to your wall are visible to all of your friends, including current partners. Your friends may wonder if it's really over with your ex.
Again, current partners and anyone who understands how Facebook works will know that keeping an ex in your friends list will mean that you and your ex's daily posts are being seen by one another.
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Re: The Facebook Fuss - Frustrated Friendships? 
It just irks me that these things are such a time suck, and people who might get so much enjoyment out of the real thing, spend it in front of a computer screen... for. hours. on. end.
You guys take the cake for that.
