Hi -
I am new here, and I am really glad that I found this site. I have reading so many of the posts here for days, and I am learning quite a bit from everyone here.
I have been married 13 yrs (together 15). We have 4 beautiful children - oldest is 10, and the youngest is 5 months. We have an extreme amount of stress in our lives right now. He works in construction, and because of the economy, he has been laid off quite a bit the last year. This is just ONE of the major problems in our marriage. I have dealt with this since we met and it has been really hard, but I have stuck by him "for richer or poorer". He is a VERY hard worker, and he wants to work. Even when laid off, he is always looking for little side projects so he can make $. I also work FT. But we have so much debt right now, and it is ripping our marriage apart.
He wants a divorce. I know this because he says it every single time we have gotten into an argument lately, which almost seems like it is happening daily (the arguing). At first I just assumed he was saying it to threaten me...you know, to get me to change. But I am at the point where I really think he no longer loves me, and he wants out, but he doesn't know how to go about it, and he doesn't want to risk losing his kids. I think that is the only thing holding him back, because he does love our kids. They are his whole world, and he is a wonderful father. Actually one of the best dads I have ever seen.
I have pneumonia, and I was very sick last week. I was hospitalized for 3 days, and I am now at home for 2 weeks, and I am still very sick. The "final straw" as they say, came this past week when I got sick. He wasn't the loving attentive husband that I know. He actually seems quite angry that I am sick (he denies that) because he has to take on everything himself. When I was in the hospital he came to visit twice (once with the kids, and they threw them out cause the kids couldn't be there) and once by himself (it IS very difficult to find someone to watch them...I understood that). But he was very quiet in the hospital, and seemed as though it was a total annoyance to him that I was sick. Like I was a burden.
He has been very distant also now that I am home. I know he has to take care of the kids himself, and that is a 24/7 job, but still. Yesterday was my first day home alone, and he never called once to see how I was doing. Not once. And when he got home, he just tossed the mail to me and walked away. No "hi honey, how are you feeling"....nothing.
I yell at him all the time about him using the "D" word. I swore I would never divorce. I take my vows very seriously. I come from a divorced home, and I know how damaging all of the fighting is to the kids, so I TRY not to argue in front of them. But my oldest son heard the "D" word, and now seems concerned. That is my biggest nightmare. I know all too well how scary it can be for the kids, so I have begged him not to say things like that in front of them, but he still does. He came from a happy home, so he doesn't understand the impact all of this has on the kids.
He has become very "mean" lately. Not at all the man I know and the man I married. I told him that the other day when we got into another dumb argument, and his response was "YOU made me this way". He will start these fights by picking something so trivial and flying off the handle. Then I will scream back in defense and he will turn it all around, and complain that I am always starting stuff with him just to upset him, and that is when he will say "why are we still together?" or "We should just split up since all we do is argue". I refuse to just give in like that and call it quits. Yes, we are having major problems right now, but to me, divorce is not the answer. One example of something that happened recently...we were getting in the car, and he handed me a soda can that was full. Both can holders in the car had a can in them, so I felt his can to see if it was empty so I could put the full can there. He started SCREAMING at me saying "don't touch my ******* ****!! Why would you touch my can...leave my **** alone!" Ridiculous, but it turned into a major fight and ended with me crying my eyes out, and he didn't even care....he just walked away once we got out of the car.
I have always trusted him - he has never given me any reason not to. But recently I found porn on my computer; not a big deal, but it concerns me because it wasn't something I ever thought he would be into, and now I am wondering why he is turning to porn. I have to admit, it may be my fault, because I haven't wanted sex in over a year (not at all when I was pregnant, then after baby was born, I completely lost interest, and couldn't even force myself to do it for him). I am wondering if that is the reason he has become so distant.
I don't know what to do, and I am desperately seeking advice. I am so stressed and so alone. I can't even talk to my closest friend at work about it, because I am embarrassed.
Wow sdk, you have a lot going on. Have you considered going to counseling? You have so much on your plate and if you aren't able to communicate with your husband you should communicate with someone who you feel safe talking to (non judgemental). It sounds like he is overwhelmed and stressed, and I am wondering if you aren't married to my husband too Lack of a sex drive might be how your body responds to stress, but it might not be his. He may equate sex with love.
Thanks for your reply, oldnbusted.
We talked a lot this past weekend. Turns out we are BOTH just extremely overwhelmed, especially now with me being so sick, and him having to take care of all 4 kids mostly by himself.
We were both misunderstanding a lot of things that the other was doing or saying. He takes everything so personally....I can say something that may be pretty mean when I am angry, and he will use that against me forever. But if he is really nasty to me, he just expects me to get over it, because I should "know" that he didn't mean it and he was just upset.
He actually brought up counseling not too long ago. So I may consider it, since I know he is already willing to try since he brought it up. I have been in counseling for many years for my own issues, but I would be willing to go see someone else with him. So we'll have to see how that goes.
As for sex, he thinks my lack of sex drive is because of him. Which it is not at all. I have tried to explain that I am just totally turned off to it right now (probably b/c of hormones from the pregnancy and I was on the Depo shot, which really messed me up for months). Honestly it is not him....you could put the best looking man in the world in front of me right now, and it would do nothing for me. Plus I am still carrying a little extra weight from the baby (which I couldn't lose until that Depo got out of my system) so I am really self-concious about my body right now. I just feel disgusting and gross.
He has told me he thinks I don't love him anymore b/c I don't like it when he touches me. That is so far from the truth. I just can't get him to understand it has nothing to do with him. I also have Fibromyalgia, which causes chronic pain. When I am having a bad day, and I am in a lot of pain, I am in no mood to be touched...again has nothing to do with him. But I think he still doesn't believe that I am really sick, even though I was dx'ed 3 yrs ago.
Anyway, thanks again for replying. Writing this has been very therapeutic for me. So thanks.
sdk - I'd guess this is ENTIRELY about sex. Right now you feel that everytime you reached out to him he rejects you. How does that make you feel?
Well that's how he has felt for the past year, probably much longer. Guys need sex from their women to feel accepted and loved. It's not negotiable. So if you arent giving him sex, he feels like he works his ass off for nothing. There's no payoff for him. His is a life of duty, with no pay back. A man can only live so long feeling that way before he disengages.
If you want him to treat you better, you need to deal with the sex problem. I guarantee it is eating at him like nothing else, destroying his self esteem and causing him to be depressed and very lonely. Constant sexual rejection is one of the most difficult things a man deals with in a long term relationship.
Read the book Care and Feeding of Husbands. It's a bit trite, but the advice is good. If you want a happy marriage, you need to start giving him some attention, or you will certainly end up divorced.
"I am wondering if that is the reason he has become so distant."
Most definitely. SF is usually a man's #1 need - more than a need, a necessity, biologically speaking. Not many men will wait around for a wife to decide she's in the mood after a year.
Aside from that, there is NEVER a reason to yell. Even if you're defending yourself. Be the bigger person and take care of your husband. Learn what you do that he doesn't like, and stop doing it. Learn what he needs, and supply it.
If you give him a reason to want to be with you, he may stop talking about divorce.
So are you both saying that all of the problems we are having are my fault because of my lack of sex drive? That hurts because that is not all there is to our issues. That is only a minor problem. And allow me to clarify....we have had sex in the past year, just not as often as he would like (which would be every day).
In my defense, I am physically and emotionally exhausted. I work FT and I have 4 children (the oldest is 10, and the youngest is still an infant). When I get home from work, everything is so hectic. We are running the kids to their activites/sports practices, then I do all of the homework with the 2 that are in school, then I have to get everything ready for the next day, and somewhere in there, we have to fit in dinner (which is usually always on the run). By the time I sit down at night, it's usually 10:00, and I go to bed at 11:00. I am normally so tired that I just pass out on the couch.
Weekends are just as crazy. We get up at the crack of dawn to get the kids to their games. Sat is the only day I have to clean my house and do all of the laundry - it normally takes me the entire day, and by 7:00 I am completely wiped out. Our only entertainment is a movie that we will rent on Sat nights, and I always fall asleep. It is then that he will start trying to have sex, and I am too tired. What am I supposed to do? Say "ok, go ahead and have your way with me" while I just lie there? Like I am his property and he can just do whatever he wants with me? That just doesn't sound right.
And I do have medical issues that contribute to the lack of desire. It has not always been this way. And I'm sorry, but if the husband is not being loving and attentive regularly, how am I supposed to get into the mood? Seriously, what can I do to make myself want it more, so I can make him happy?
I do understand that men need sex much moreso than women. And I do feel bad that I just haven't been interested for some time. There are times I force myself to do it because I know how important it is to him. But I end up feeling used in a way when I really didn't want to in the first place.
I dunno....if he is willing to ruin our family and throw away 13 years of marriage, with all that we have been through together, just because I am not into sex at the moment (I am sure I will get back into it soon, once my hormones adjust, and once the baby is a little older) - then he doesn't really love me.
I have stood by him through many hard times, where I felt he wasn't contributing 100% to our marriage, and I never once threatened divorce because he wasn't making me happy, so why is it fair for him to keep threatening me with divorce just because his "needs" aren't being met. I am not a "Stepford Wife". I am a good wife and a good mother, and I hold everything together in this family. Sex is not our real issue. It goes a lot deeper than that. But like I said in my prior post, we have been talking a lot more and opening up to each other. Communication is really key, and it is helping us.
At this time, with me trying to recover from pneumonia, we are really struggling. But I believe we can make it through this. Thank you all for your comments and your advice. I guess I will really need to work on trying to please him more, once I am feeling better.
You may have to be the bigger "person" as it were. Extend the olive branch.
I love the fact that you say he is a great dad and you love him. In my opinion you need to separate the life issues (work, money etc) from your relationship. I'm gonna give the benefit of the doubt and guess that all the strees is almost 100% from the lack of work, feeling maybe less of a man etc.
Try hard NOT to yell, or escalate. I know its not easy.
Have you told him all the things you posted lately? (you love him, he's a wonderful dad, you dont want a divorce etc).
It will feel like your being weak or whatever but unless you lower his "temperature" /anger level. It will just be perpetual cycle of fights until one of you walks out.
Try to let him know the other stuff is not important, they are only circumstances that have NOTHING to do with your love for each other.
I guess where I'm trying to go is hopefully you get to the point where he is not so angry and maybe willing to see the light through the tunnel
If you think finances are bad now. wait to see what happens if you get divorced. Dont kid yourself and dont let him kid himself it will be MUCH worse.
It would REALLY be sad if because of all the outside influences of life you & he let this spiral all the way down to desctruction of your marriage.
Think of things to do with all that other stuff removed. Get the kids out and make a nice evening together.
As for the sex, dont withold that as a means to make him understand your mad, if you love him, show him whether by kissing him on the cheek and telling him he's the best OR by taking him to the bedroom and giving him your love.
a definition of insanity that i like is.
Doing the same thing and expecting different outcome.
[Break the Cycle of arguments and fighting, somehow]
I do understand. The deal is, YOU are the one here getting advice, not him. So we are going to tell YOU what YOU can do to improve the marriage. And the secret is that we all base our actions on (1) fear and (2)desires. So, make your marriage one where he is jumping through hoops to make YOU happy, because you make HIM happy. Make sense?
Yes, you may have to sacrifice for a while. But if he's not some psychopath, he will come around to all the changes you are making - not LBing him (NO yelling!) and meeting his ENs.
At the same time, you are going to have to sit down with him and discuss the situation. If you have that much going on, you will have to rearrange your lives. And your H will have to start pitching in. Get him to watch SuperNanny with you; it often boils down to the husband realizing he has to participate. Write down all the things that have to be done in a week. Ask him to pick some things that he's willing to help you with. Laundry, cooking, shopping, driving, folding towels, recycling...SOMETHING! Explain to him that you are simply too exhausted to care about sex any more. You WANT to, but you can't do everything on your own and still feel like sex. THEN ask him to help.
Finally, you will simply have to FIND some way to spend time with each other. NO marriage can survive with the husband and wife spending no time together. They lose all feelings for each other. What time do your kids go to bed? Put them to bed half an hour earlier; they probably need it anyway, with all those activities.
This will all require you changing your lifestyle, your habits. But isn't your marriage and happiness worth it?
I'm 38 and have four kids under 13, and am divorcing, so I know EXACTLY what your life is like. I can tell you as a single parent it doesn't get easier, because you are either overwhelmed or desperately lonely when you don't have the kids. And 2+ years out, I'm still not used to the dramatic changes in my week between custody days.
I get you are overwhelmed and fried. And I also get you don't feel like sex. Also know this isn't a judgment of you.
The problem is your relationship is in a death spiral where you don't get your needs met, he doens't get his needs met, and you are both miserable. And until SOMEONE changes something, nothing will change and you'll likely divorce.
Try reading the 5 love languages and see if he'll read it with you too. Figure out what YOU can do to change things. If you meet his needs, he will change.
I recently came across an article that talks about the 2 things men need in a marriage and 2 things women need.
1. Men Need Respect
2. Men Need Sexual Intimacy
1. Women Need Financial Security
2. Women Need Emotional Security
- Thoughtfulness
- Thoughtfulness for others
- Listening
- Safety
- Encouragement
From a man's perspective, it sounds like your husband doesn't feel respected and doesn't have sexual intimacy. (BTW, it's been 7 years since I've experienced sexual intimacy with my wife and she is perfectly healthy!)
It also sounds like you don't have financial security due to the job situation and you don't have emotional security based on your husband's lack of thoughtfulness and understanding of your health issues.
IMO, if you guys are going to start meeting each other's needs and turn around your marriage, it's going to require professional help (ie. a therapist) to help you get there. Although my marital issues are different, I am basically in the same boat.
So I think you have 3 choices:
1. Make an appt with a marriage counselor. It's not going to be quick and it's not going to be easy. You both have to be fully committed to the counseling for it to have a successful outcome.
2. Leave things the way they are and HOPE they get better.
Thank you so much 63Vino, turnera, seeking sanity & D8zed. You all have given me such great advice.
I get what you all are saying. I do really need to make some changes, otherwise, things are only going to get worse. As I stated, I come from a divorced home, so I know how much it changes everything, especially for the children. Divorce for me has never been an option, as I do love my husband very much (I don't like him all the time though) and we have built such a wonderful life together. I don't want it all to fall apart, and I do see we are heading in that direction, unless some things change.
For awhile, I have been thinking that he wants out, but he knows we would lose everything, and I know he would not be able to handle not seeing our kids everyday (if he thinks that I would get custody in the event of divorce). He actually admitted once to me that he only brings up divorce constantly because he wants ME to change. Of course, when he said that, I became defensive. I was like "oh, everything is my fault and I NEED TO CHANGE? YOU have no part in all of this"???
I think because he is so miserable, that is why he has just become distant. He doesn't know what to do, and it seems he is not willing at this time to look at himself, and see what he needs to change. He is placing all of the blame on me. He has always been a "happy-go-lucky" guy. He is the kind of dad who is always playing with the kids and screwing around - the constant "joker". He is always laughing and always seems happy to everyone else. He is funny and kind to everyone, except me. That is why I feel so hurt and alone a lot of the time. (I hope what I am saying makes sense right now....I feel like I am just rambling...)
D8zed...that article you found is right on. I know for me, those are the things I need in this marriage. And as you can see, what men and women NEED are completely different. Makes perfect sense, and now I can see that neither of our needs are being met. Thank you for posting that.
Seekingsanity...I'm so sorry you are going through divorce. See that is the thing that I know would kill my husband...not seeing the kids. There are many nights that I am with the kids by myself cause he is running around doing errands, and I think about what it would be like to be a single parent. I honestly don't know if I could handle it alone. I rely on him alot with the kids. Thanks for posting about the 5 love languages. I am definitely going to look that up, and try as hard as possible to make this work.
turnera: yes, I totally get what you are saying. It all makes perfect sense. I do the majority of the housework and taking care of the stuff for the kids that no one else notices but me (their school stuff, drs appts, making sure everything is up to date with sports, activities, ect...ect...) My H is the one who is the "fun one" - he plays with them like he is a child, and makes them laugh. I am the serious one who keeps things together. My son told me he was so happy that I was out of the hospital last week, b/c he said things were a little crazy without me. My H took offense to that - he told my son "don't make her think she is more important than she is"...he laughed but I think he meant that....he wanted me to know he handled everything fine without me. (I let him know that I thought he did a fantastic job without me, but I do know that i am an important force here). He does do a lot of housework and he does care for the kids, more than most guys I know, which is really great. But I do still feel overwhelmed most of the time, and when I try to convey that to him, it just turns to a fight. But you have given me some tools to work with, so I am going to try to change how things are done around here, and hopefully, that will make him want to make me happy, as you said. Thank you.
63vino, you are so right about his self-esteem. Although he won't show it, I know when he is on lay-off, it makes him feel terrible. I get that. I understand that as a man, he wants to feel like he is providing for his family. When he is on LO, he feels like he is not doing that, and it crushes his ego. I'm sure it doesn't help when I get frustrated about paying the bills, and he feels responsible. My only problem is, he won't admit that. He gets angry and just yells at me and tells me "oh well! It will work out, so I am not worried about it". Then I take on all of his fears on top of all of mine. That attitude frustrates me, but I think that is his way of dealing with it. You are so right...we have so much love for eachother, and we have so much invested in this marriage. It WOULD be such a shame for it to all fall apart, because deep down, I know that is NOT what either of us want.
Thanks all again....I think I know now what I need to do to salvage our once happy marriage.
If he's in construction, why don't you guys look for extra jobs he can do while in layoff? Like building and selling deck chairs, or refinishing someone's deck or wooden floors, stuff like that? Go to craigslist and look for jobs there.
Be creative - together - on how to 'reformat' your family structure so it works better.
My only advice is to talk, talk, talk, and then action, action, action. We're not perfect but our relationship rules at the moment we rarely ever fight ever this are tips and tricks we use.
1) No gender roles, I clean, cook, clothes, homework, activities, and so does my wife. She will also grab the lawnmower, paint a room, etc.
2) The person with the easier day normally does a little more. If I'm off I'm doing alot more of the maintenance work same goes for her.
3) Talk alot about everyting, share dreams, future dreams, do you want to go to school, trips, need a break, house, cars, finances, what do you like in the bedroom etc etc.
4) Date night at least every two weeks!! Always almost without fail we have date night twice a month. Then every 3 months big super date night with a hotel or quick trip money permitting.
5) We sacrifice alot. Our sex life is better no then ever.......my wife knows that sex is important we've talked about it countelss times, but I understand sometimes that just isn't going to happen. Often when time, circumstances, she may not be in the mood, etc she will improvise all without asking of course "happy ending" without sex. We do have sex fairly often for two people who work 50hrs a week, 4 kids, gymanstics, taekwondo, piano, basketball, 2-3 times a week.
I recently came across an article that talks about the 2 things men need in a marriage and 2 things women need.
1. Men Need Respect
2. Men Need Sexual Intimacy
1. Women Need Financial Security
2. Women Need Emotional Security
- Thoughtfulness
- Thoughtfulness for others
- Listening
- Safety
- Encouragement
From a man's perspective, it sounds like your husband doesn't feel respected and doesn't have sexual intimacy. (BTW, it's been 7 years since I've experienced sexual intimacy with my wife and she is perfectly healthy!)
It also sounds like you don't have financial security due to the job situation and you don't have emotional security based on your husband's lack of thoughtfulness and understanding of your health issues.
IMO, if you guys are going to start meeting each other's needs and turn around your marriage, it's going to require professional help (ie. a therapist) to help you get there. Although my marital issues are different, I am basically in the same boat.
So I think you have 3 choices:
1. Make an appt with a marriage counselor. It's not going to be quick and it's not going to be easy. You both have to be fully committed to the counseling for it to have a successful outcome.
2. Leave things the way they are and HOPE they get better.
3. Get a divorce and start over.
If you haven't had sex in 7 years that is more than just wierd!! That is loco!! Reminds me of my parents when I was growing up they slept in seperate beds........when I was 16 I asked what was up with that.......she said they hadn't had sex in 6 years. I bet I saw them sleep together in the same bed only a handful of times that I can remember.
No sex in 7 years? That sounds like a roomate or financial arrangement not a emotional and physically bonded marriage.
7 years.........years....I don't even know how to comprehend that......that is probably 15% of your sexually active life to not be touched, carressed, and share in lovemaking.
No sex in 7 years? That sounds like a roomate or financial arrangement not a emotional and physically bonded marriage.
7 years.........years....I don't even know how to comprehend that......that is probably 15% of your sexually active life to not be touched, carressed, and share in lovemaking.
I can make it even more dreadful - I've been with this woman for 24+ years so almost half my life. During that time, we've had sex a TOTAL of 15-20 times.
Husband keeps bringing up Divorce 
Lack of a sex drive might be how your body responds to stress, but it might not be his. He may equate sex with love.
