Spent some time searching the forums and cant find the right answers/direction...
I’m 29 and been with my wife for over 13 years (married for 3.5). That’s right, “high-school sweethearts” ohh ****, what did I do!!! Throughout our lives together we were the “ideal” couple, we never fought to the point at which we hated each other, we always worked through our problems, our families are close and we love each others parents. Friends would look to us for couples advice and things like that... 6 months ago I took advantage of an opportunity to make some killer money and kick my career into overdrive. This meant being away from home for 3 weeks at a time. This wasn’t a decision I made on my own. Myself and my wife discussed it long and hard and decided it would be best for us as we were planning on building our dream home and starting a family. That’s the way we’ve always decided on things, as a TEAM.
Fast forward 6 month and here I am in a “train wreck”. She’s let me know that she feels different and that since I’ve been gone she’s explored her independence (she’s never lived on her own). I couldn’t imagine myself with anyone else and she says the same. However over the last 3 months things have changed. I’ve noticed her becoming increasingly “colder” towards me emotionally (she doesn’t initiate hugging, kissing, etc...). I come home every three weeks and I guess at times I may be a little overwhelming. Oh yeah, and she gave me the old "I love you, but not in love with you" thing about 1.5 months ago.
In addition to all this, I sensed an affair happening about 3 months ago but KNEW she wouldn’t do that. I questioned here a couple of times and she’s just denied it (looking back, who wouldn't).
So about a month ago (one week post her telling me how she feels) I suggested that we just get out of town for the weekend and go shopping. So we went for the road trip and that evening while lying in bed I asked her one more time - Is there someone else? Finally, out with it... she said YES. She confirmed my beliefs and I was bang on! She made sure I knew that she had never acted on her feelings and that it was just emotional. I was angry but at the same time relieved to hear that it wasn’t JUST me. A lot went on that night - some discussion, arguing, hugging, etc... In the morning we went on and lived our lives like normal although I questioned her the whole way home about this person. I think I wanted to justify it rather than understand it (something I've learnt from other posts here).
To make a long story short - I ended up asking her to leave the house and now shes been living at her parents for about a month. We exchange texts and phone calls once every couple of days, have been to one marriage counseling session and have gone out for coffee a couple of times. Other than that she seems set to move on and get her own place. I’ve been on an emotional roller coaster for the last month. One minute I’m balling my eyes out and the next I want to pull the rug out from under her, kick her out of the house and see just how independent she’s become!
After I learned about the other person I turned cold and got very angry with her. We talked about separation and who would get what and even split apart bank accounts. This took it toll on me emotionally. I felt I was leading her down this road. I've been keeping a journal and decided to go through it and gather the good things I wrote about her/us. Keep in mind, to this point all ive done was be very short and angry with the situation.
We got together last week to discuss separating our bank accounts and who was paying for what now that she was out of the house. Before we met I told her that I had some things I wanted to say to her (she told me later that she was scared when I said this because she thought that I would rip into her again). What I told her was my true feelings, about how much I loved her, how much I care about her, what she means to me, whats important to me in life and how I would modify mine to better accommodate ours (I cried through the whole thing). She cried and said that since she told me about her feelings she has never felt this caring and loving feeling from me - just anger and maybe that’s what’s missing. She also mentioned that she doesn’t blame me for feeling the anger either. After she left I felt really good about letting my true feelings out. We met up again a few days later for coffee. Went OK. She said that me telling her these things really "FU&$ed her mind up", guess that means shes considering us. She says that shes scared about the thought of us not being together but needs to discover her independence. We also talked about her getting a car and her own place!?!?!? I'm soooooo lost!
Bottom line, I've always been the proverbial "nice guy" and hopefully thats not what caused this but reading into some of these posts suggest that COULD be it. I love my wife to death and would do anything to fix this situation and want to excel to the next level in our relationship.
For now, I’m giving her space and leaving the ball in her court so to speak (i.e. I don’t call or e-mail anymore). I keep on second guessing myself though, as she has told me that she misses the loving & caring - however, there is this other guy! I guess I'm really stuck right now between taking a hard line or giving her emotion. I want to suggest another couples session but I'm afraid of pushing her further away. I don’t know what to do anymore!!! She just sent me an e-mail talking about getting her own car again... Jeez, this seems dead in the water!
Any help? Anyone see anything different in my situation?
Re: High School Sweatharts - done after 13 years???
sweat heart, he he
Oh man, you are in a tough place. I feel like I wrote most of that post, (if your bored sometime you can find mine in the next forum down). You are doing the right thing by giving her space, DON'T beg or plead if you still want her back, she has to figure this one out on her own. Good luck man.
Re: High School Sweatharts - done after 13 years???
Hyndsight1... Read through your posts last night/this morning... Wow, I feel for you man. Can’t believe how women can be so cold and how we as men can be oblivious to the situation. You are a VERY strong individual for handling the situation the way you have. Did you send the letter?
I recently read a story about the “Walk away wife syndrome”. Really opened my eyes and made me reflect on our relationship. Other than us being together since she was 15 and her NOW wanting her independence, this “Walk away wife” thing is pretty interesting. Talks about women as being the primary caretakers of the relationship at its early stages – true, and they eventually give up and decided to stop fighting – true. W tells H that she wants to leave and here we are... Immaculate!
Just as an update, I talked to my W on the phone again today – she called me for some house questions. Near the end of our conversation I reiterated the following points:
1) I’m giving her space
2) I’m still her husband and I will fight for this marriage. I see value in trying to work on US to be better than we ever have.
3) I understand your need for independence and I’m no longer trying to justify it. Independence is important in any committed relationship and should be explored to its fullest with respect for the other person.
4) I’d like you to move back in so we can work on us but only under the condition that you WANT to work on US. I cant have you here if you’re driven by guilt. This is very important.
5) I described our marriage using the following sports analogy – just came to me when I was on the phone... “we’re like two players on the same team in a game that started over 13 years ago. We don’t know the rules, we don’t know strategies, we don’t even know how to score but for some reason we’ve made it this far and we’re winning. Now imagine if, at this point, we took a time out to learn the rules, educate ourselves of strategies and understood how to score. Do you think we would fair any better?”. I followed this up by telling her that I need to reiterate that I’m not trying to guilt her back in b/c I understand that would be bad news for both of us. What I’m trying to get her to do is to CONSIDER her decision to move on and think past tomorrow. If she still feels it’s better to move on and explore her independence w/o me, I will accept that and do the same. I’m her husband, and I’ll do ANYTHING to get her back except continually deny my self respect!
Her basic response is that she understands what I’m saying and that if she would have moved in by now it would have been driven by guilt. However, she does find some of the things I say to be something to consider. She has an appointment w/ her therapist tonight and will think about it some more. Again, ball’s in her court.
If anything good comes out of this whole experience, I’ve finally convinced my best friend to go see a counselor in order to work on his marriage. He has and said it’s been great so far. I feel like I need to write a book about this but there are so many out there! Which reminds me – I’m reading “No more Mr. Nice Guy”. I’ll let you all know how it goes...
Re: High School Sweatharts - done after 13 years???
My 2 cents.
You need to lay down boundaries. This is crucial.
This isn't about her boundaries, or controlling her - it's about what you will tolerate, and what circumstances make this 'independent experiment' a deal breaker.
You already know that she is interested in someone else. You are now separated. Unless you clearly, concisely, and explicitly state otherwise ... she IS going to have an affair. At this point, you are all but enabling it by taking yourself out of the picture.
You need to lay out what the consequences will be should it become apparent that she is involved with someone else in any capacity. By stating what you will do, based upon her actions, the consequences will be the result of her choice - not your reaction to her choice.
And more importantly, you need to be certain that you will deliver on those consequences.
That's great that she wants to find her independence. What exactly does independence have to do with hitching your wagon to a new man?
I can get fully behind honoring her wishes, and honoring the marriage.
But odds are, sadly, that she's playing you. Her discovery of independence will likely include the exploration of a relationship other than the one she is now questioning - but doesn't want to let you go in the event that things don't work out.
That is not, and should not be even remotely acceptable to you.
She's bored with you and the relationship. That is what this is. So, make the lines of demarcation crystal clear in what is going on. If she cheats, act swiftly and without remorse (you can do the remorse piece on your own). Take a look at yourself and your dependence upon and need for this relationship. It isn't a balanced equation. Odds are, the less it becomes apparent that you pursue, need, or want her ... the more likely she is to find you attractive again.
But seriously man, you need to spell it out. Because if you don't, she will take your silence as condoning her behavior to pursue greener pastures.
Re: High School Sweatharts - done after 13 years???
Thanks Deejo - been waiting to hear from you.
I understand the need to set the boundaries around this and I think I've made myself clear. However, I'm a bit confused by the "should not pursue but cant take myself out of the picture" thing.
You said:
"At this point, you are all but enabling it by taking yourself out of the picture."
And then later:
"Odds are, the less it becomes apparent that you pursue, need, or want her ... the more likely she is to find you attractive again."
I struggle soooooooo much with this one. How do you suggest I keep myself in the picture but at the same time - not pursue? This is what I am desperately trying to understand - She's on the way out, already talked about buying a car and getting a place of her own. I've told her I want to work on us and bring us to the next level. My life's in shambles anyways - may as well throw my fists at this guys face and see how that works out...
Re: High School Sweatharts - done after 13 years???
You arrange opportunities to date her again. Prove to her that you CAN be a viable candidate.
fwiw, I never recommend people marry or continue to exclusively date their high school sweethearts. They aren't done growing up, and marriage (even exclusivity) stifles that part in each of us that needs to explore, learn yourself, try new things (things, not people), and just DISCOVER who you are. If you marry in such a situation, the woman almost always stifles who she is, to try to get the man to...turn into the husband she envisioned. And if he doesn't, doesn't turn around and focus on her but still does what HE wants in life while SHE turned into instant wife and housewife...well, the time will come when she does give up.
If you had dated around during those years before you married, if she had been able to be more of herself, and NOT an appendage of you, she would have gotten it out of her system, and wouldn't be so desparate now to reclaim it.
Basically, you just have to step back and let her experience life on her own. Men usually still do that to an extent when they get married; women don't.
For now...date her. Learn about the NEW her, the one she is becoming. Ask about that new person, see what her dreams are in life. See if you can fit into that new perspective she has with her new freedom. (sometimes you just can't) And you'll have to show her that you CAN be part of that new life of hers, and it won't put a crimp in her style, so to speak.
She will never want to go back to being just your wife. She'll want to be HER; and if being with you goes along with that, well, you've got a shot.
Re: High School Sweatharts - done after 13 years???
Turnera - thanks for the post. I understand what you're saying but she has NO interest in working on us right now. She's made that clear. As for her dreams, she doesn't even know - she wants to find that out, says there so much she doesn't know about herself. I can try to date her but she isn't willing.
I've been thinking, I've only had 3 solid relationships in my life (including this one) so maybe it's time for ME to do something for myself. I read through my journal today (all 30 pages of it) and I've been selflessly accommodating her requests and telling her over and over how much I love her. I've had NO BALLS throughout this whole situation. I've been trying to find out whats wrong with US - I'm a slave to this marriage and the "perfect" life we had planned! On her side, she's worried about leaving me... Piss off! I've opened my heart to this women and told her everything. All she can say after 13 years is that she's confused and doesn't want to hurt me.
I'm still suspicious of this other guy and want to go shove my fist down his throat. However, I also realize that I don’t have a relationship with him, I do with my wife. She has to take responsibility for allowing this to materialize. My line is drawn, if she moves on in life, so will I. Can she go off on her own and 6 months later come back to me - sure, if I'm willing to accept her back.
I mentioned in my original post that I put my heart out on the line last week. I just found out (from a reliable source) that this has caused her to really consider what she's doing. Good, I've established a boundary - If she chooses to move into her own place and start her independent life, I will be doing the same. Not a reaction, but a consequence based on her choice! (Thanks Deejo)
Re: High School Sweatharts - done after 13 years???
I certainly don't want to counsel making a confusing and painful situation more confusing and painful. My commentary is primarily based on what happened in my case - and what I have seen in many others.
A fantasy is only cool for as long as it is fun and pleasurable.
She is imagining what independence looks like, and that perception, whether she is aware of it or not, hinges on you and your support. Financial support in particular.
If she can easily obtain a car and apartment with or without you, then odds are that independence looks really appealing. But if she needs your financial support during her period of discovery, and you willingly provide it - you will be taken advantage of. You are effectively funding her ability to pull away from you and grow closer to someone else. This is what happened in my case - and what I meant by enabling.
The closer she moves to the precipice of independence, and the more obviously painful that view becomes, the less green the grass appears on the other side. I hope this makes sense to you.
It actually sounds like a time-out could yield tremendous benefits to your relationship, as long as the both of you agree to and follow the rules you lay out. Taking care of yourselves as individuals does serve the long term health of the marriage.
You stated your position by telling her how much she means to you and that you love her. That's not a bad thing.
Pursuing her, reinforcing your feelings, and trying to smother her with attention and affection is a bad thing, despite seeming like the right thing.
Did I clear things up or make the water muddier?
My gut tells me that she is far more drawn to the idea of being on her own than the reality, so don't make it easy.
And if she chooses it anyway, make it even less easy. separate your funds, enforce your boundaries and keep contact to an absolute minimum. She made her choice. Once the pretty colors fade from the fantasy and take on the duller colors of routine or a nightmare, the more likely she is to see the light .
Quote:
Originally Posted by gfc777
Thanks Deejo - been waiting to hear from you.
I understand the need to set the boundaries around this and I think I've made myself clear. However, I'm a bit confused by the "should not pursue but cant take myself out of the picture" thing.
You said:
"At this point, you are all but enabling it by taking yourself out of the picture."
And then later:
"Odds are, the less it becomes apparent that you pursue, need, or want her ... the more likely she is to find you attractive again."
I struggle soooooooo much with this one. How do you suggest I keep myself in the picture but at the same time - not pursue? This is what I am desperately trying to understand - She's on the way out, already talked about buying a car and getting a place of her own. I've told her I want to work on us and bring us to the next level. My life's in shambles anyways - may as well throw my fists at this guys face and see how that works out...
Re: High School Sweatharts - done after 13 years???
Set the boundaries or she will take addvantage of the situation.
Women do not typically go to another man unless there is a problem.
I am a 43 year old (pretty attractive and young looking woman) and my husband and I were married for 6 years before I had an affair (and oh yeah we were high school sweethearts too from 1983).Married in '85. What brought me to the afffair was my husband did not pay attention (like now) to me-he was muchmore involved with hismilitary career-getting the next promotion in the USAF-studying,etc..) Oh and I think I should point out that he had an affair while he was gone to Denver for training the 2nd year of our marriage and I was pregnant with our 3rd child). Anyway, one night we were watching TV (and this was just after he came back from a 9 month stint at Clear AFS Alaska),and I looked at him and I askd him "Are you still in love with me?" I got no reply. Nothing. It made me mad and well very depressed. I went so far as to pack a bag and put it in my broken down clunker of a car, to leave him. I worked at Dominos Pizza in Co at the time. There was a very nice, younger guy that was becoming increasingly close to me-attracted I guess, and one night I was just crying and he asked me to come to his house and talk-that is how it began. I was very sorry I did it -and my husband gave me hell for it when he found out-sent my kids to his mom's in California- so we could work it all out. That was a very rough time but we did get through it because we loved each other.. he was sorry he did not say it that night!
Marriage is hard enough with normal every day problems from kids, bills, jobs,etc.. but throw in an affair and it takes the really tough ones to come through it shining.
I thought we were one of those couples but sadly, after almost 25 years, I don't think I can take anymore. No, no affair this time. (Unless it is him with his computer game Star Trek that he can not leave alone).
Re: High School Sweatharts - done after 13 years???
Hi there, I am in a similar situation. I am married to my highschool sweetheart as well. We are now 27 and 28 and have been together for 11 years, living together for 10, and married only since February 2009. We had somewhat of an 'open marriage' so we did some experimenting and what not throughout the years but always managed to stick together. Our problems have nothing to do with these issues now, but I can see how your wife is questioning your marriage. Marriage takes a ton of work and effort to keep together. You have to spend time making an effort to stay bonded together, like the previous poster said, too many late night video games, or a busy career, (my husband worked out of Province for about 4 years and it was tough as hell)
You have to ultimately decide what you can and cannot handle. If she wants to seperate just to dabble in what else is out there, say fine, but be clear that you will do the same. Is she interested in "dating" you at all? It could be a fun way to make things fresh again and help things feel new and reconnect. Good luck to you.
Re: High School Sweethearts - done after 13 years???
Thanks for the comments guys – keep sharing, it gives us all perspective...
Well, I’ve made my boundaries clear and she knows that if she chooses to go on with her life, I will do the same. I’ve also made it very clear that I want to work on us and ourselves as individuals but she has no interest at this time. She’s stuck on this feeling that this is something she has to do. She wants to come by the house and divide our assets soon and wants to get her own place. I’ve told her that I ‘m not in agreement with what she’s doing but it’s her choice. I will be moving on with my life soon enough.
After re-reading a lot of the posts from multiple forums I’m reminded of the trend that shows trying to fight it now is useless as “WE” are not a priority to her. She knows right now that I WANT her bad so how much risk is associated with her moving on? Not much! I’m also reminded that human nature makes us want what we cant have – look at the situation through my glasses and this becomes painfully clear. As for her, I’ve given her hope that she has me, a great husband thats willing to fight for the marriage to continue – she knows she HAS this and therefore probably doesn’t want it (whether she realizes it or not).
I’ve seen the rules listed below in a number of posts:
“how to act and react to your wife when she is acting like this:”
1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or
implore.
2. No frequent phone calls.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage.
4. Do not follow her around the house.
5. Do not encourage talk about the future.
6. Do not ask for help from family members.
7. Do not ask for reassurances.
8. Do not buy gifts.
9. Do not schedule dates together.
10. Do not spy on spouse.
11. Do not say "I Love You".
12. Act as if you are moving on with your life.
13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive.
14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends, etc.
15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words.
16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING.
17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what she will be missing
19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show her someone she would want to be around.
20. All questions about marriage should be put on
hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while).
21. Never lose your cool.
22. Don't be overly enthusiastic.
23. Do not argue about how she feels (it only makes their feelings stronger).
24. Be patient
25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you.
26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out.
27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil).
28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly.
29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest
CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.
30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy.
31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse.
32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because she is hurting and scared.
33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34. Do not backslide from your hardearned changes.
Well, I’ve broken about a dozen of these but I’ve started reinforcing them as of yesterday as she is only inches away from breaking my boundary (I hope I’m not too late).
It’s based on surviving a mid-life crisis (she may or may not be going through this) but some important lessons here that have effected my perspective on the whole situation.
As for now, she can set up a time for us to go through our belongings as I have no interest in accommodating her need to move on her own. I got back to the gym and feel great – advice for you guys going through the same situations – just get out and enjoy life, go work out, go hang out with friends, take advantage of opportunities. This may be a blessing in disguise. Stop fighting it, she will not understand or reason with you and you’ll just fall lower on her totem-pole. Learn about yourself and explore...
One thing I wanted to do is get her a book to read along with me. This appears to have worked for a few others on this site. The one I’m contemplating is "I Love You but I'm Not IN Love with You" by Andrew G. Marshall. Talks about steps to saving your marriage. Still on the fence, I may read it on my own right now and give her a copy of the book if her attitude towards us changes. I don’t want to violate rules 8, 12, 20, 24, 29...
Re: High School Sweatharts - done after 13 years???
I wouldn't waste my time giving her a book to read. She'll be reading it with a jaundiced eye. And think you're pathetic.
In fact, what I would do if I were you, is start finding new things to do. DO move on with your life. Join a club, or a church or a class. Start having things to do.
There was a woman on another site whose H was cheating. He KNEW she was just sitting around at home moping for him. It gave him a thrill to know he had two women pining for him; he was rude enough to taunt her about it. I suggested that she start having 'something' to do at least a couple times a week when he came by to pick up the kids. So, when he came to get the kids, she'd be dressed nice and smelling good, and have her purse on her arm. When he got there, she went out the door, too, and got in her car and drove off. Sometimes, she'd say 'oh, can you keep the kids an hour longer? I've got plans and I won't be home til 10 tonight.' Stuff like that.
You wouldn't believe the change in her husband, once he realized that, wait, maybe she COULD live without him. He started asking the kids where she was going, who she was seeing, what she said about him, if she asked about him...suddenly the affair just wasn't that alluring any more. And all she was doing was going to the store, or the bookstore, or to get an ice cream. But he didn't know that.
What was important was, like you said, he realized she COULD move on, and that he didn't rule her world any more. Now HE had to pursue HER.
I'm not telling you to cheat, or even to lie about where you're going. That's not right. But DO find things to fill your life with. And if she happens to see it, well, so much the better.
High School Sweatharts - done after 13 years??? 
Re: High School Sweatharts - done after 13 years??? 
