Le vieux, I agree with Turnera. (You know, I could save myself a lot of unnecessary typing by changing my name to I agree with Turnera.) I don't understand why you are so nervous about meeting with the psychs and therapists. Their first concern is going to be to medicate him to help bring his depression under control so he doesn't make good on his earlier threat to kill himself. Never mind that it likely was an idle threat.
If the therapists have the necessary skills to treat strong BPD traits -- and not many of them do -- it will likely take two or three years before you see any real and substantial changes in his behavior -- and that is in the unlikely event he really works at it. So you are not going to learn much from his therapists for a long time. And, as I've discussed, I doubt they will ever tell you the dreaded BPD term. Hence, their beliefs and decisions should have little, if any, bearing on your actions for at least two years. As Turnera said, you need him to be living in a separate house while he is dealing with them and they can think what they want to think.
As to your own therapist, she is on your side and likely will tell you her opinion within a few sessions. IMO, therapists with a masters degree have a spotty record for telling the difference between BPD and bipolar. Yet, if she is a psychologist, I would trust her judgment over anything said here about your H's traits.
That said, now that you are very familiar with BPD traits, you should trust your own judgment about whether he has strong BPD traits. You can recognize the pattern of such traits without having a clue as to whether they rise to the diagnostic level.
Given how miserable you've been, why would you even care if they reach that level? Moreover, you know a thousand times what they will know (by way of the 50 min. sessions) about his behavior. Finally, just in case I forgot to mention it, I agree with Turnera.
First i need to let you know that what you, uptown and turnera, told me and the other friends at BPDfamily all what you said make sense to me and gave me a lot of insight
You made me question myself so many questions you have right i was focusing more on him than on myself
It won't matter what was my intention that was true i feel all my mind thinking about him and his illness and yes i need to focus on myself,anyway i don't regret what i learned till now i needed that. But keep reading and thinking about it made me more exhausted
So i decided to take a breath. There is one fact that we are separated. It won't matter if we are under the same roof or in separate houses since i can't leave right now so i need to start focusing on myself and that's what i am working on.
I am trying all what you advice me to do i called hotline i called agencies for assistance
I looking to find family counseling for my kids and i am looking for low rental house and for second job.
turnera you told me one time to try to visit a shelter and talk to women there but they told me i can't visit a shelter it's something related to confidentiality and privacy
You told me to to see the T and psychiatrist in separate appointment and talk to them about my H situation but they don't do that for the conflict of interest
I don't know how his psychiatrist told him that he can see me as individual patient while at the same time he is seeing my H.
Anyway my husband told me that he cancelled his appointment the 1rst of June with his T because they won't let me go with him and he want to stay with the psychiatrist because he speaks the Arabic language but the T speaks English and it is hard for him to communicate with her (it is a big lie)
i have two thoughts in my mind
1-the psychiatrist is agreeing with him about many things i mentioned before like we should stay in the same house and we should be together in a vacation but the T doesn't agree.
2-Maybe he is seeing the T secretly
i will know that soon because today i called to make appointment with her and they said i can't bc my H is her patient i said no he stopped and didn't go last appointment they said she should agree to take me. but if she agreed i need to cancel my 2nd appointment with my T i can't have both.
My main goals now are
1-Find my identity after years of abuse.
2-Keep seeing T to help me to heal.
3-Take my kids to see T especially my daughter 17 years old to help her heal and not commit the same mistake like i did.
4-Find a way to move out ASAP.
I would like to update you about our situation now
In a discussion 5 days ago he was saying that he knows why i am treating him like that i asked him why he said that he is collecting evidence and he will mention them in the court
I didn't fall down in his manipulative way lol
than he said he knows who is supporting me to do what i am doing
He said he was reading about detachment and they mentioned the steps for that and all what i am doing is following those steps
that means i am working to divorce him it won't matter if he is doing therapy or not
I said you are doing therapy for you not for me and if you are going just to keep me home you need to stop it now because you won't heal. And what i am working on is to take care of myself and it's not what you read it's you who drove me to that and we need to be in separate houses because i need to take a long brake from you to be able to work on myself because either me or you if we don't love ourselves we won't be able to love anybody else He said if you left you won't come back i know
I said only one reason will be giving you another chance it is because you are the father of my kids
And if i was listening to what i am reading or what you called supporter i would be divorcing you long time ago tell me one reason to stay with you
You said you are reading so did you read about abusers? he said yes i said wow do you see what they wrote applies on you? he said yes i said so you need to read what should the abused woman do and it's not what i did at all because i am stupid still giving you chances He said but i wouldn't be treating you this way if you were not allowing me to do that so it's your fault to
i said yes i know what i lived with my father made me live like that with you but if i wasn't what i was you wouldn't marry me and in case you married me our marriage wouldn't be able to survive more than couple years......
It was a long long discussion with no positive results because he wants to change my mind and he wants to let me know he is changing and i am not helping even i am not staying neutral.
I told him i can't be neutral when you crosses my boundaries and that's why we need to be in separate houses because i am not able to help you i need to help myself and to know myself whom i didn't know before just know that what's keeping me home is lack of finances
He said i can't live without you i assure you i won't survive more than couple days i just want to let you know if you left me and i died you know why.
(the day before we went outing with his extended family and he spent the day without eating and he looked so despair)
i know he is manipulating me but also he was despair.
Now after our conversation he is doing well eating normally i don't know if it is because i said i don't have enough money to leave so maybe he is now feeling that i have no choices and i am not able to move out. This made him feel better because as he thinks right now i am still under his control.
I don't know it is just a thought
what do you think??
This made him feel better because as he thinks right now i am still under his control. I don't know it is just a thought what do you think?
I think you have a very good understanding of what is going on. You know that BPDers have a fear of being alone. Once it happens to them, however, they oftentimes are very quick to replace you with another person who becomes their soothing object.
I also think that I would not bring up finances again with him. Why? Because if you tell him it is MONEY keeping you with him, he will do anything to make sure you NEVER have the money you need. I've even heard of people disabling their spouse - harming them physically so they can't walk or work - so they can't work and thus can't leave.
...It ends when you decide. You are in control. You are not trapped -- that is just a feeling. As I explained earlier, you are the glue that is holding the toxic relationship together.
...... At that point, when you are able to do that, you will know -- perhaps for the first time in your life -- what it feels like to have strong personal boundaries, being able to stand up for yourself and your children...
... Even if you cannot separate from him at this time, you will get there if he will not choose to fix himself instead of pretending that he is a victim. Turnera got there. So did I.
TURNERA !! UPTOWN !!
I DECIDED TO FILE FOR DIVORCE
I am going to post a new thread here and at BPD Family to get variety of answers but it is important to me to hear yours too please any advice!!
Here are the same concerns i posted there
One think still scares me, HIS REACTION.
Eventhough he is showing a lot of change in his behavior, I know people doesn't change over night.
He is so calm so nice to the kids he is talking to them with a very rational way he never did that before, with me i can't tell about his way (i limited my contact with him to the minimum;when he crossed my boundaries or when we have something to deal with in our daily life)
What scares me will he turns back to his accusations and rage when he will know i filed for divorce????
I need advice
-What are the good side and bad side of divorce under the same roof????
-Do i have other solution????
-Legal separation IMO is useless now and waste of time for nothing(as long as he feels there is hope he won't start changing and he will keep feeling me under his control) plus i don't think it will work under the same roof i was thinking of it if we are in separate houses. What do you think? Am i right????
-I have no friends or family from whom i can borrow money or live with until i can find a second job.
-I am living in CA i got legal advice. They told me It will take 6 months and legally i can get divorced and continue to live under the same roof.
-What do you think about my case with the history i had with him?????
Any suggestion?????
from anyone please
Thank you !!
I just don't understand what you expect to happen, once he gets the papers served to him? When you can't go anywhere! He will be furious. He will be desperate. You may be in danger, and you will have no resources to get away from him safely.
I am really dying everyday
Maybe i need this push to get out
I am on my guard all the time to force my boundaries
It seems like i have no right to be this strict in that and for him i should forget the past and start over since now he changed and he is talking in a nice manner
He is accusing me for being mean and stubborn and that i became liberal and anti Christ and he won't allow me to keep doing wrong things and with all what i am doing i don't want him to get better
This was because I asked him to contact the phone company to give me authorization to separate my phone number from the family plan and have individual plan.
Than he started accusing me that i want to hide my phone calls so he won't be able to monitor me and than i will be having affair...
Wednesday is my daughter's graduation (every special occasion he do something to ruin it)
Before saying anything he gave me two links and asked me to read 2 articles about divorce and catholic church after that he said just read the first one
He is forcing me to a conversation tomorrow (as he said it is divided to three parts first part a logical study in rational way about what led our marriage to this situation 2nd about the house and responsibilities 3rd about divorce advantage and disadvantage
i said we agreed to talk to each other only to discuss the kids and house hold matters
He said that was because i had blurred vision but now i can see clearly
Than he said this is going to be really calm and rational one and if you don't argue or being mean it won't take long time i said i am not mentally prepared to any kind of conversations keep it until after the psychiatrist appointment he said no tomorrow it must be tomorrow you don't have to talk just listen and it should be before the graduation.
Gosh!!! I am so tired!
I said We can be there for her he said what about the picture i said we can take a picture what is the problem he said no like that we will be a family and we are not a family
i said if you have a problem we take pictures with her each one alone
he said do you think this is good for her?? i said she will agree he said ask her and if she agreed i congratulate you for doing good job in harming her....
So let's see what tomorrow hides??
I don't feel good about it
I tried to avoid it but i found him serious and he might ruin the graduation for my daughter
So i had to stay in conversation i was more listener than talker for 4 hours he drained me and left me breathless
The few times i talked my opinion was leading to arguing and he was accusing me for being stubborn and he said he understand that i am so much sick and i need psychiatrist
I said i am here to listen not to be evaluated if you keep talking like that i will have to leave
First part he said what leads our marriage to this point
1 Women have more capacity to handle stress than men can do..
2 You were a weak person so i thought to myself to let you become stronger i should become weaker and that's what i did but it was like someone who said a lie and believed it so you were getting stronger and i was getting weaker
Now i woke up and i won't be weak anymore
and would never treat you like before we will use communication with any arise problem in a logical manner specially concerning the kids
I said good for you and for the kids not for me and you it is too late for us.
He mentioned about me stubborn and mean than continued talking in calm way and he said so many things led him to get change, the psychiatrist (lol), me, our kids, and for most God.
2nd part was bc i insisted to have individual phone account so he said i should share with him responsibilities and payments for the household not only the rental
I said it's fine with me like that you made divorce easier
He said this is the subject of the 3rd part
I am a Catholic and our church allows divorce only in case of adultery so i don't think you have any reason for divorce and i strongly refuse the civil divorce
I said our life is like divorced couples so what's the difference the papers are for legal things
He said church won't allow it (i didn't say anything about annulment) i said i won't talk about it and civil divorce is not a sin unless if any spouse remarried before getting church divorce and he was arguing about this point so i stopped talking i don't want to open my cards.
but i mentioned that we can get divorced and stay under the same roof ( i didn't mention anything about filing)
He started saying how my family will refuse divorce as well as his family and maybe this will kill my parents and his mom plus family and friends will be disrespecting me
now on him he said divorce will have a negative reflect bc no T will heal him and for most our kids we should protect them even we had all these problems in our marriage but God blessed us with wonderful kids they need a family life and divorce will affect deeply their life God protect them until now but he can't protect them if we don't do our part so no divorce he won't accept it under any circumstances and he won't let me do anything to hurt our kids
Finally we need to have our shared time with them we should show them we are happy even if we lie i told him no we should be happy for being with them he said we need to talk to them and let them know that even we have our problems but we love them and care for them i said of course even if we are divorced this should not affect them
he said no divorce i said within few years our kids will leave why you want to force me to stay with you he said when they leave we will do divorce i said no this will take long time and we can keep it between us until they leave (this way we ended our conversation i know he won't agree with divorce but i am setting the ground maybe gradually he will get use to the thought of divorce and won't shock him
what do you think about that ? do you think it might work?
One more thing he is projecting all his negative behaviors on me and he is saying he is going to support me until i heal......
Sorry my posts are always long i try to summarize but can't more than that
I always appreciate your time, your support and your advice
He doesn't HAVE to agree to divorce. All YOU have to do is FILE it. If he doesn't want it, that's his problem.
I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure I've read that Catholic church allows divorce in cases of abuse, so quit letting him use that against you. You and God know the truth.
Quote:
he won't let me do anything to hurt our kids
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE be careful.
These words are starting to tread on the dangerous waters we have been warning you about. The more he realizes you are serious, the more desperate he is going to become. He is starting to talk like a man who will take ACTION to get what he wants - and he will believe it's for your own good that he harms you or paralyzes you or kills you.
lvs, PLEASE STOP HAVING CONVERSATIONS WITH HIM ALONE. Every time you do, you end up getting in a weaker position because he wears you down, he goes through the abuse cycle, just like we talked, and he WILL NOT STOP until you cave and do what he says.
He doesn't HAVE to agree to divorce. All YOU have to do is FILE it. If he doesn't want it, that's his problem.
I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure I've read that Catholic church allows divorce in cases of abuse, so quit letting him use that against you. You and God know the truth.
These words are starting to tread on the dangerous waters we have been warning you about. The more he realizes you are serious, the more desperate he is going to become. He is starting to talk like a man who will take ACTION to get what he wants - and he will believe it's for your own good that he harms you or paralyzes you or kills you.
lvs, PLEASE STOP HAVING CONVERSATIONS WITH HIM ALONE. Every time you do, you end up getting in a weaker position because he wears you down, he goes through the abuse cycle, just like we talked, and he WILL NOT STOP until you cave and do what he says.
Before uptown says it i agree with you yes he started to take action and to justify himself if he treated me bad or hurt me
but you know i am living in the same house with him and i can't run away when he wants to have conversation i might be able to postpone it but not run from it and i am not showing him any weakness
I understand what you meant by saying (getting me in a weaker position) but turnera when i had to do things i don't run away i face them arming with hope and faith and what i know till now and all my friends words, you know i mean on this board and at BPD family boards, are always as a warning to keep my eyes widely open
Le vieux, please listen to Turnera. The idea of your divorcing an unpredictable, unstable BPDer while living with him really scares me. I realize that, even if you were living separately from him, there still would be risk because he would have visitation rights for seeing the kids every week. But that situation would be less risky because you would not be spending so much time around him. Please be very careful.
I know i am into fire and i can't avoid to be burned how much i can save of myself is unpredictable till now
I know i am working right my friends i had no other choice it was or divorce under the same roof or surrender and never try back no third choice no matter what are the thoughts i had and thought i could do it wasn't going to work and that was killing me more..........
Now let me tell you what happened today
The HR called me while at work to tell me that my H called her(first time he called my work) and left voice message to call him ASAP
I went to her office and asked her to let me hear the call. He said he wants to surprise his wife and he needs to talk to her supervisor to ask her to give his wife(ME) days off he wants to surprise me with a vacation(I don't know if he means me alone or with him.
OH MY GOD!!!!
That's really ridicules i was mad why does he do that ? what that means?
Does he want to show everybody he is good so he pressures me to not file for divorce
Or just other kind of control even to send me for vacation when he wants and the place he wants
because i can't think him loving me and wanting to show more his love(that's what he wants me to believe)
Even if he might have a thought to make me lose my job he won't be able to do that i am really honest i never lied and he can't tell them anything bad about me...
He made me justify myself to the HR and even talk about my personal life to people i never thought i would let them know about it wow that was really really stupid
Re: 28 years of marriage What ca i do? 
i agree with you yes he started to take action and to justify himself if he treated me bad or hurt me
