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Old 07-02-2010, 01:29 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Default Re: How to deal with the anger...

Scanner - gotcha.

I guess I'm assuming that most women/mothers would fight harder than most men/fathers. Women are the caring nurturers - dads fix stuff and go to work. Women carry children 9 months and suffer through labor - dad's tell the mom when to push, fetch ice chips and maybe cut the chord. Women breast feed - men use bottles.

I think you are right about depression or "something". So for me its not only that I want to be Robin Williams - I really actually do - its also that my Sally Field has possible mental health issues.
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Old 07-02-2010, 01:37 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Default Re: How to deal with the anger...

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Thanks Mr. Duck. Cool avatar thingy btw.

I am very angry - but I'm not taking it out on the kids.

And yes - heard the song before! Need to post that to my FB page!

I actually think the voodoo doll might be somewhat therapeutic. I don't really "think" it would work, but it sure would be fun trying to find out.

Plus a great conversation piece for those times she comes to the house to get the kids.

If it does work I waaaant one. Also let me know what you find to help you through the anger stage.
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Old 07-02-2010, 02:01 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Default Re: How to deal with the anger...

Yes, biologically speaking, the two of you seem to be acting in reverse. . .she seems blah-zay (sp?) about tending to the kids and you are nuturing.

Perhaps, NiceGuy, it has to do with some of your maritial dysfunction. I think men have almost sometimes stepped up too much in the parenting role in marriages leaving women bewildered. She knows you are going to fulfill the nuturing role so she's letting you.

Maybe you need to set the boundary a little better - say. . .listen. . .you got kids here. . .woman up and start acting like their mom or I'm splititng them up becuase I can't do it by myself.

(which was common years ago - when a widower was left with children often the brothers and sisters went to live with various family and friends)

And don't give her an inch on child support - you make sure you go after her and let her at least learn that part of being a responsible non-custodial parent.

She's got money for booze in the bars - she's got money for her kids. Let a judge come down hard on her and have her wake the hell up and woman up and have her paycheck attached.
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Old 07-02-2010, 02:28 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Default Re: How to deal with the anger...

I want to hijack this string and ask Scanner some question... A couple of sentences on my background:

My H treats me badly. The kids see it, and I have to change my situation. However, he won't go. I have even told him that we will figure out how to have 2 homes together. He won't budge. The reason I'm still here is SOLELY because of the kids.

How do you get through your evenings without the kids?
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Old 07-02-2010, 02:36 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Yes, biologically speaking, the two of you seem to be acting in reverse. . .she seems blah-zay (sp?) about tending to the kids and you are nuturing.

Perhaps, NiceGuy, it has to do with some of your maritial dysfunction. I think men have almost sometimes stepped up too much in the parenting role in marriages leaving women bewildered. She knows you are going to fulfill the nuturing role so she's letting you.

Maybe you need to set the boundary a little better - say. . .listen. . .you got kids here. . .woman up and start acting like their mom or I'm splititng them up becuase I can't do it by myself.

(which was common years ago - when a widower was left with children often the brothers and sisters went to live with various family and friends)

And don't give her an inch on child support - you make sure you go after her and let her at least learn that part of being a responsible non-custodial parent.

She's got money for booze in the bars - she's got money for her kids. Let a judge come down hard on her and have her wake the hell up and woman up and have her paycheck attached.
Hmmm, either you are reading things wrong or I am. First of all if I am reading things right she doesnt have a job. Second of all she is more than happy to let NG work, pay the bills, and take care of the kids while she does as little as possible and goes home to her apartment if things get hectic.

The good news for NG is she actually set precident when she got her own place 3 years ago that didnt include the kids. From what I read NG has been the primary caregiver for 3 years.

So NG would have a good shot of getting primary custody of the kids. NG has a good shot of keeping the family home and may even be able divert payments on her share of the equity and in some cases not even have to pay her until the kids become of age at which time the house would sold and the equity divided.

NG would be entitled to child support which would at least negate alimoney and actually may be more than the alimoney she would be awarded. NG probably would no longer have to pay for her apartment. The courts main concern is the children.

The Judge may even order NGs wife to look for work. I think in this case where property, kids, assets, child support, alimoney, disability, are issues NG needs an attourney.

Last edited by Brewster 59; 07-02-2010 at 03:08 PM.
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Old 07-02-2010, 03:24 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Default Re: How to deal with the anger...

Scanner and Brewster - I think you guys both have parts of this right, which is why my head is spinning;

Small clarification - she's only been out of the house for 7 months now. As Deejo has pointed out to me, I've allowed her to establish a certain lifestyle level that I "might" be required to help her maintain. However, from what I understand, child support is REQUIRED in my state and would likely offset any alimony. There are also tax benefits to paying alimony, and I would not have to pay taxes if she paid me child support. So, I might have to pay her $100 a month and get a tax break, and then get $150 back in child support that would be tax free.

Also, most people seem to agree that its best to go without attorneys first. I don't think I could get a judge to require her to attend rehab and look for work unless I got a little nasty and we used separate attorneys; let me know if I'm wrong;

Scanner - my hangup for pushing her to take more responsibility with the children is that I'm not sure that its in the kids' best interest, but I think I see where you are coming from; the MC has suggested she may ask for custody solely to get child support, and to let her have them if she does - and then start documenting all the times she asks for help;
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Old 07-02-2010, 03:26 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Default Re: How to deal with the anger...

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I want to hijack this string and ask Scanner some question... A couple of sentences on my background:

My H treats me badly. The kids see it, and I have to change my situation. However, he won't go. I have even told him that we will figure out how to have 2 homes together. He won't budge. The reason I'm still here is SOLELY because of the kids.

How do you get through your evenings without the kids?
Is taking them with you an option? I would be very careful about leaving the house without them.
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Old 07-02-2010, 04:17 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Scanner and Brewster - I think you guys both have parts of this right, which is why my head is spinning;

Small clarification - she's only been out of the house for 7 months now. As Deejo has pointed out to me, I've allowed her to establish a certain lifestyle level that I "might" be required to help her maintain. However, from what I understand, child support is REQUIRED in my state and would likely offset any alimony. There are also tax benefits to paying alimony, and I would not have to pay taxes if she paid me child support. So, I might have to pay her $100 a month and get a tax break, and then get $150 back in child support that would be tax free.

Also, most people seem to agree that its best to go without attorneys first. I don't think I could get a judge to require her to attend rehab and look for work unless I got a little nasty and we used separate attorneys; let me know if I'm wrong;

Scanner - my hangup for pushing her to take more responsibility with the children is that I'm not sure that its in the kids' best interest, but I think I see where you are coming from; the MC has suggested she may ask for custody solely to get child support, and to let her have them if she does - and then start documenting all the times she asks for help;
Well my friend most of us here are going through this same hell in different degrees with different circumstances. What to do is confusing for most of us.

I will tell you I found taking some tylenol pm helps me with the sleeping problem. I take it about an hour before I want to go to sleep and not to late at night.

Deejo gave you an excellent run down on mediation vs laywer.
With mediation being good if both parties are amiable and there is not a lot to fight about. If your looking at a custody battle your definetly going to have to laywer up and mediation will be mandated at least it is here. One thing I know for sure is the courts #1 concern is the children.

Usually the primary caregiver is given the family house to live in and a good amount of the family income as It is definetly cheaper to live on your own than to raise children.

Not quite sure why the MC recommends letting stbx have custody but she might try to get it cuz then she will get alimony, and child support and probably the family home to live in.

One thing is for sure this divorce crap is about a lot more than emotions and it is the worst hell a person can go through IMO.
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Old 07-02-2010, 04:19 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Niceguy,

No, don't go it totally alone without an attorney. At the very least, you need to be advised, 1 -2 hours. Yes, you don't have to make it contentuous and appear in court with dozens of motions and cross-motions but you need to be advised.

I think Brewster probably has it just about right but you need to hear it from a licensed attorney.

It's not as simple as "alimony negates child support" and she walks away.

No. Nadda. Zilch.

Alimony nowadays is only usually offered as a temporary set-up until the other spouse can get back on his/her feet or if there is a wide discrepancy in incomes like you are a famous cardiothoracic surgeon and she is a housewife.

YOu aren't to support your lame-brain spouse the rest of her life because she wants to be a drunk. And if you don't like what I am saying. . .well. . .all the more reason to have an attorney repeat what I just said to you in plain English.

When you are divorcing, you aren't thinking straight and your attorney is there to think for you.

So any offset would generally only be applied for 3 years at the most usually if let's say you made 75K/year and she made 20K part time.

Point is no judge is just going to let her walk away and say, "Well. . .nice knowing ya. . ." She at least has to send you a damn check every week even if it's a little to start.

See my point? No judge is going to certify such an arrangement unless you totally agree to it, which why should you? What's in it for you?

She can at least get a damn job and send some child support towards you or offer to watch the kids and you pay her instead of daycare. . .make some reasonable offer on the table.

Remember. . .this is a business transaction. Treat it as such.

Quote:
My H treats me badly. The kids see it, and I have to change my situation. However, he won't go. I have even told him that we will figure out how to have 2 homes together. He won't budge. The reason I'm still here is SOLELY because of the kids.

How do you get through your evenings without the kids?
Okay, I may jump around a bit on this answer but that's exactly what I wanted - to have 2 homes together and maybe going as so far as to "trade" when we were with the kids.

My kids, esp. my oldest, saw how I was treated badly by my ex and was even to the point of apologizing for her behavior towards me.

My idea of parenting in the home is for her to exit 80-90% of the time or at least be in her master bedroom studying for her masters when I am there doing baths, homework, and making lunches. SHe could certainly go to the library to study, get a haircut, food shop, go out with friends, something. In other words, be "nanny-dad" at times.

Anyway, to answer your question - it was difficult at first but you get used to it. I don't know - the mind is a funny thing. I am embarrassed to say sometimes I go through the day and then at the end I sort of remember. . ."Oh yeah, I have children" :embarrassed:

And when she brought her boyfriend in within a few months, I was really threatened and depressed. Now, I dunno. . .I am kind of confident that no matter how lame of a father I may be, I am still their father and the boyfriend can't compete.

I am not sure if I am skirting your question but I guess the answer is - what choice do I have? I did know this before I left her so I knew the consequences. I guess I also focus on the fact that it's a lot of damn work and I am off the hook on that since she won't let me in @ nights/weekends to participate.

Maybe I am being irresponsible (she would say I am) but again, I'm not schlepping them around various nights of the week. Just not doing it now until I am stable. I have decided my relationship with my sons is changing and I am taking a more long term view.

My circumstances are kind of extenuating also in that I have a wide variety of ages - 13, 7, and 2. The 13 and 7 year old don't really want to come with Dad because the whole time is about the 2 year old. I happen to agree with them.

I don't think visitation/parenting time should be like "serving a sentence".

Last edited by Scannerguard; 07-02-2010 at 04:23 PM.
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Old 07-02-2010, 04:34 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Sorry I'm venting here. . .it's just bringing up the history of my divorce.

I can remember at first I offered for her to keep the equity of the house (we have a significant amount - 6 figures) locked in and when the kids were older (1rst or 2nd went off to college), then i would take a payout %age (my take is somewhere between 38-45%).

She could then downsize or go live happily ever after with her boyfriend.

Because I was getting the benefit of growing equity and being at a good spot on the amortization table (we are paying mostly principle now), I was willing to even pay a little more in child suport (tack on a little alimony).

I only asked that I could use the house nights and maybe 1 weekend/month to be with the kids.

Her response:

No, it's my house.

Don't want you here.

It's mine.

So that offer is gone. (my attorney wasn't crazy about it anyway)

But really, why should have I expected any different? She was totally an unreasonable/uncompromising person in marriage - why should she do an about-face in divorce?

So now she's stuck parenting 95% of the time.

Frankly. . .this is how you will have to deal with your opposition at times - hardball.

Pitch them in fast, hard and up around their head to get their attention you mean business.

I just told my attorney to toss aside any negotiation letters from her attorney. They are meaningless and I am not responding at $225/pop.
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Old 07-02-2010, 05:50 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Default Re: How to deal with the anger...

OK guys - just to make sure I'm giving you the right info...

My wife is "disabled" - collecting disability income; in theory, this isn't temporary; realistically, there are times when I understand it and think "this makes sense - I would never employ her" and other times when I think she should be working in some capacity;

my concern about the bars relates to the MEN more than booze; the issue isn't that she's a lazy drunk, but that enough doctors have said she is unable to work;

So - in my head - we have about $20k liquid; lets modify my example and say I pay $150 in maintenance due to a permanent and uncontrollable difference in income; but assume she pays me $100 a month in child support; I'll get a tax break on the $150 I pay out, and pay no tax on the $100 I get in; so, I might actually be sending a net of about $35 out the door each month when all is said and done;

So, using numbers that would be anywhere CLOSE to these, I can't really justify spending $10k to have a lawyer convince a judge that my wife should be seeking employment just to avoid paying a net $35 to her each month;

And kind of reversing things a bit - it seems like calling her out on her disability would be the "right" thing to do, but is it worth $10k to do so, especially when I have no guarantees?

And of course if I hire a lawyer, and she hires one to prove she isn't a fraud, won't we just end up pissing EVERYTHING down the toilet?

Is my thinking way off here? THIS is exactly why I need at least a one hour consult;

Thanks again for the help guys. Have a great holiday weekend.

Last edited by nice777guy; 07-02-2010 at 05:55 PM.
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Old 07-02-2010, 06:11 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Could I make a weird suggestion? Right now there are three or four NiceGuy threads (cause he was having a particularly bad week!): "Do PlanA/PlanB even apply?" "I'm in PlanB (aka Plan FU)" on the infidelity forums and then the two here: "How do I deal with anger?" and "How do I get an attorney?" People are replying to all four and different advice is flying left and right! Could I suggest ONE thread? It just makes it easier to follow along a little.

I'm cool with picking one here in "Considering Divorce" cuz you are! Could we maybe "re-direct" the other three to come here? If so, I can help ya add that redirection, NiceGuy.
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Old 07-02-2010, 07:02 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Niceguy,

No, don't go it totally alone without an attorney. At the very least, you need to be advised, 1 -2 hours. Yes, you don't have to make it contentuous and appear in court with dozens of motions and cross-motions but you need to be advised.

I think Brewster probably has it just about right but you need to hear it from a licensed attorney.

It's not as simple as "alimony negates child support" and she walks away.

No. Nadda. Zilch.

Alimony nowadays is only usually offered as a temporary set-up until the other spouse can get back on his/her feet or if there is a wide discrepancy in incomes like you are a famous cardiothoracic surgeon and she is a housewife.

YOu aren't to support your lame-brain spouse the rest of her life because she wants to be a drunk. And if you don't like what I am saying. . .well. . .all the more reason to have an attorney repeat what I just said to you in plain English.

When you are divorcing, you aren't thinking straight and your attorney is there to think for you.

So any offset would generally only be applied for 3 years at the most usually if let's say you made 75K/year and she made 20K part time.

Point is no judge is just going to let her walk away and say, "Well. . .nice knowing ya. . ." She at least has to send you a damn check every week even if it's a little to start.

See my point? No judge is going to certify such an arrangement unless you totally agree to it, which why should you? What's in it for you?

She can at least get a damn job and send some child support towards you or offer to watch the kids and you pay her instead of daycare. . .make some reasonable offer on the table.

Remember. . .this is a business transaction. Treat it as such.

Ok let me put a qualifer in here. In my state alimoney is paid when there is a wide discrepancy in income between the spouses. The lenght of time it is paid is dependant on the lenght of the marriage. Here a spouse can get temporary ailimoney if the marriage was 10 yrs or less. If the marriage was over 10 yrs lifetime ailmoney can be awarded.

SG, I think you are right in the fact a judge wont say go away to either spouse what they will do is award an alimoney amount and an amount of child support to the primary child caretaker.
Since NGs spouse has no job and I assume is collecting disability she would probably be awarded alimoney but if NG is the primary caretaker she will be required to pay child support which would probably be a wash.

NG, if you want to try without a laywer to start with I would pay a paralegal to process the petitioners paperwork its kinda a lot of paperwork and you will need your income and expenses, what property you own, what liquid assets you have and where they are located, 3 months of pay stubs, Once the paperwork is properly filled out you will have to serve the respondant and obtain proof of service. Once you have proof of service you file the paperwork and your wife the respondant will have 30 days to respond to the settlement plan you offer if she accepts it will be an uncontested divorce, if she fails to respond within 30 it will be an uncontested divorce and after 6months the divorce becomes final. If she does not like your settlement offer she will file respondant papers and you can either go to a mediator, make a settlement together, get attournys, and appear in court for the start of the real fun. Anyhoo thats how it works here

Last edited by Brewster 59; 07-02-2010 at 07:12 PM.
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Old 07-02-2010, 07:40 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Scanner - gotcha.

I guess I'm assuming that most women/mothers would fight harder than most men/fathers. Women are the caring nurturers - dads fix stuff and go to work. Women carry children 9 months and suffer through labor - dad's tell the mom when to push, fetch ice chips and maybe cut the chord. Women breast feed - men use bottles.
You are absolutely right about this...for some woman. When something as innocent as a playground "tiff" occurs, the mama bear comes out in me. But then you see the moms out there that aren't even watching their kids. Some women don't have that "bond" or "natural instinct".
Right now, my stbx and I share 50/50. I have the boys Mon, Tues...he has them Wed, Thurs...and then I have them Fri, Sat, Sun. Then the schedule reverses back to him having them Mon, Tues. Right now, that is what is working for us.
I know what you mean about that anger stage though. Seems like I go through it every other day.
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Old 07-02-2010, 08:08 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Brewster - that's exactly what I was trying to say - I'm just not sure if I'm right.

We have 15 years together. By my estimates, she would need about $300 per month to continue her current lifestyle as it is - but I would think some "concessions" would be expected if we get divorced - no more "as is" for anyone. Per my state's childcare calculator I found online, it looked like she would owe me about $200 per month in child support.

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Could I make a weird suggestion? Right now there are three or four NiceGuy threads (cause he was having a particularly bad week!): "Do PlanA/PlanB even apply?" "I'm in PlanB (aka Plan FU)" on the infidelity forums and then the two here: "How do I deal with anger?" and "How do I get an attorney?" People are replying to all four and different advice is flying left and right! Could I suggest ONE thread? It just makes it easier to follow along a little.

I'm cool with picking one here in "Considering Divorce" cuz you are! Could we maybe "re-direct" the other three to come here? If so, I can help ya add that redirection, NiceGuy.
I really did start off with two different questions. I "think" I'm mostly done in the Infidelity section. But I "think" the Anger is different than my legal questions, although the legal questions have overtaken the Anger thread.

But just to let you all know, I'm still pretty pissed.

Going to go listen to some loud music and have some fun - enjoy some rare time alone at home with no wife, kids, or dog. Picture Tom Cruise in Risky Business...except I'm much cuter and I'd treat Katie Holmes the way she deserves to be treated!!!
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