unhappynewlywed

I will try to keep this as short as possible but I really need some advice.
I have been married to my husband for just under a year and we do not have any children yet.
When my husband and I started dating, I had to initiate things and "chase" after him. For a month or 2 he went back and forth about whether or not he wanted to be with me. When he decided yes, it was like he was immediately in love with me. This shocked me a bit, but I think I also thought it was flattering. As we continued to date, he would get mad and try to keep dibs on everything I was doing when I went out with my girlfriends. When my friends graduated from college, we all went out for one last celebration together. When I went to his house afterwards he was so mad that he punched a wall. Over time I learned to just not go out with my friends b/c I didn't want to fight with him.

What I am realizing now is that he has always been this way and I feel like I made a huge mistake in marrying him. He recently started a new job and is away at training for several months. About a month ago one of my friends got married. He told me he wanted to come into town that weekend so he could "keep an eye on me" at the wedding, but was unable to with work. I decided at the wedding to not worry about how mad he would be the next day and enjoy the time with my friends. At the wedding I realized how much I missed seeing my friends and being free to have fun and dance without fear of being screamed at or getting the silent treatment for days. The next day my husband would hardly talk to me, but I finally felt like I was hit with the realization that he was being ridiculous for getting so upset about stupid things. He does not trust me and I have NEVER given him a reason not to. I do feel that lately his behavior is pushing me away to the point that I want to find another guy who would treat me right.

I know I could ask him to change, and he might for a time, but I think he would just be pretending and still not want me to see my friends.

As I look back I am remembering all the stupid things he has gotten incredibly angry with me about. He even yelled at me once for laughing at my sister's fiance too much.

I am not sure if this necessarily constitutes emotional abuse, but you read that abusers separate you from friends and family, get overly angry about small things, tear you down, and you feel like you are constantly walking on egg shells. I experience and feel all of those things.

I guess right now I feel like I'm still young and I'd rather cut my losses and get divorced now. I don't want to hope for him to change and end up 5 years from now still unhappy and with kids thrown into the equation. Yes, he keeps pushing for kids too, just like he pushed our wedding up, oh and convinced me that none of my friends should be in our wedding. Advice please??!

crisis1008

I think your husband is extremely possessive. I would definitely worry about any future with him. My husband and I have been together for going on eleven years. I should have noticed the several signs of possessiveness in my husband before I married him, but did not. One of the first things he ever did was tell me that I looked at other men too much. He told me that the other guy would think that I was available by the way I looked at him. I never even noticed this trait of mine. All I ever did was study other peolple when we were out and about. I was never flirting with anyone. To this day, I worry about even glancing at other men. My husband does not like it when I go out with my friends either. It is a form of mental abuse and control, which can be emotionally detrimental to you, as it has been to me. I don't have children with my husband either, but the time I have put in and his two children from previous relationships place a guilt in me that I cannot rid of. Not to mention, I still love him, so I tend to make excuses for his behavior and constantly re-evaluate myself to figure out whether or not I really have any fault in what goes on. Anyone who knows me tells me not to have children with my husband, but I am 31 now and feel like my child-bearing years are ticking away.

I want to tell you to get out while you can, but that would make me a hypocrite. I can tell you, that separating from my husband for 10 months allowed some changes to be made in my favor, but over the last couple of months I have seen things slowly go back to the way they were. I am currently doing whatever he wants and not going anywhere he does not want me to in order to avoid the argument and his being angry with me. I think all my separation may have done was allow the cycle to start all over again. I have been hoping desparately that my husband will not disappoint me further. I am afraid people like our husbands may never really change. I am not certain they will ever trust anyone. My husband even goes so far as to outwardly say to others that he does not trust anyone, and that you especially cannot trust anyone when it comes to money and your women.

I am so sorry to say that I have no uplifting words for you or your situation.

Freak On a Leash

I am in an emotionally abusive marriage. It's a different kind of "abuse" but it's the same result..You feel like crap.The horror stories I could tell you would make your hair stand up and my husband has never hit me..It is all mental and emotional abuse.

If I could go back to where you are..a newlywed without kids and no real ties I would get the HELL out and do it NOW. As it is I'm at the point where I'm looking at options because with EVERY fight we have, no matter how trivial the issue, my husband is either threatening to leave (and not pay any of our bills) or to take the kids from me or throw me out

Don't make the same mistake I did and stay in a marriage for 21 years and hope it's going to be better some day. Two years ago my husband and I made an attempt to "reconcile" and change our marriage. For awhile it worked and things got a lot better. I thought I finally had the spouse and friend I'd always wanted..But it wasn't meant to be. He kept on and on abusing me about all the stuff I'd done in the past..and then the drinking started and even more abuse.

It's been nothing but a horror show all this past summer and into this fall. Even after being hospitalized and my being supportive and loving, he's back where he was before. At best he ignores me. At worse he rips into me constantly to the point where I get hysterical and start cutting myself (yes, I have cuts and scars on my arms and legs now). The only thing that's keeping me sane are my kids and the meds and valium I'm on. I've been trying to set up therapy as well, which has been difficult because it takes so long to get it started.

Oh yes, after an "episode" he says he's "sorry" and swears things will get better. They don't. Trust me. Please, please, don't have kids! I have two terrific kids and I cannot tell you how horrible this on my kids.

Figure out your options and LEAVE. This guys sounds worse than my husband! He sounds like a complete selfish, egocentric control freak who will never let you have peace. You are young, you have a future and no ties. Now is the time! And don't listen to his BS about how things will "get better". They won't. Trust me on this.

River1977

Read about your husband here

Romeo's Bleeding

F-102

Back then, he punched a wall-next time, it could be you.
I think of one of my favorite Pink Floyd songs: "Run Like Hell".

thestruggle

I think if you feel like it's emotional abuse it probably is. The difficulty with that issue is a number of things;
1 you care about it and it seems like no one else does.
2 the other person denies it
3 you have a very hard time proving it in court
4 you have a hard time getting it to stop
5 you are made to feel like it doesn't exist
6 you feel like your attempts to deal with it go in circles
7 you are constantly being surrounded by toxic behavior and it creeps into your pattern of behavior by mistake (you're human). And the abuser uses 1 mistake of yours to justify 1000 abuses from them.

For me, if you're unhappy in marriage (for whatever the reason) it comes next to what action you need to take for yourself and your sanity. What do you need to do to survive your marriage?

I don't know enough about your experience to say, but I'll put this out there: is it possible that he sees something that makes him angry when you are "out dancing with friends".

For example, I don't punch walls but I do feel it's very inappropriate for someone in a committed relationship to 'dance sexy' with someone (boy or girl). It's just the philosophy I was raised in.
Now imagine I was involved with someone who sees that as 'good old plain fun'. It's possible we'd need to talk (and hopefully not end up fighting) about this issue until we come to an agreement about how what works for us as a couple.

If he's punching walls he might have an anger / temper problem. That might be his personal character flaw he needs to work on. Does it make his feelings invalid, not really. They're very real to him I'd imagine. What's at the root of it? Is it reasonable from his perspective?

"Going out with friends" has been an issue in my marriage too. She wanted to ditch me alone, while she went out to have fun with other people. My feelings were that this is totally unfair if I were to reverse the situation. Would she mind if she had to sit alone in a foreign place while I went out to have fun with friends? Why on earth should she feel that is fair to do to me? If we're married then why am I not invited? My point here is to look at the 'bigger picture' that perhaps he might be upset by, it might be reasonable from his perspective.

Like you, I'm at a point in my marriage where the emotional abuse is getting too tough to handle and I wonder if I can continue. The bottom line.. he mustn't ever be hitting you or you hitting him, ever. If your safety is in doubt, get out.

Freak On a Leash

Abuse is more than physical. Mental/emotional abuse can be far worse. I just came from an initial consultation with a place that deals with ABUSE..and that includes mental and emotional, as well as physical abuse.

My husband has rarely physically abused me. Maybe a shove or two over the past twenty years, but the times he's ripped into me emotionally and mentally are more numerous than I can count.

If you hurt, then it's pain, whether you are bleeding inside or outside. The bottom line is, don't let anyone inflict pain on you over and over again to the point where you are miserable. Don't get trapped.

unhappynewlywed

I understand where you say he may be feeling it is unfair if I leave him to be home alone, but that is not the case. I actaully encourage him to come and he refuses or if he does come, he sits there and talks to no one even when they try to start conversations with him. I also encourage him go go out with his friends as I think it is important that he have other close relationships. He refused to go to a friend's bachelor party in Vegas and was mad that I was not jealous about the idea of him going. No forgive me if I'm wrong, but I trust my husband completely to not involve himself in any compromising situations, but hanging out with the guys is not a problem to me. I know full well if they had gone to an inappropriate club, he would have skipped it.

When I go out with my girlfriends it is nothing inappropriate. When I say we dance, I mean a group of girls in a circle dancing together, which mostly consists of singing and doing silly moves that we think are funny.

My fear is more that he does not intentionally mean to "abuse" me and if I called it abuse he would be in shock. I didn't even realize it was abuse myself until lately. I fear that because I am generally a very happy upbeat person, I have continued to be happy throughout all of this, and have not realized how bad it truly is. I am hardly close with my friends anymore. I never feel like life is just tons of fun. I went to the lake for a girlfiend's bachelorette party, and he got mad at me for going tubing. Now I am afraid of fish in the water, but I realize it is an irrational fear, and I decided I wanted to get over it, so I went... He got MAD at me for doing that!!! That is not a logical thing to get mad at. I just feel like I deserve someone who is also happy, and wants to conquer ther fears with me. My husband also has irrational fears and he absolutely refuses to face any of them. For our honeymoon he swore he would swim with the dolphins with me b/c that has been a life-long dream of mine. When we got there, he refused to even leave the resort.

I know marriage is to be taken seriously, but I truly believe we made a mistake and feel like we should cut our losses before they are greater.
I just worry how he will react, will he survive? I don't want to make him miserable, and I just fear he will never move on and find someone else...

thestruggle

Thanks... I'm trying to deal with this myself and find it hard to
know where 'the line' is. I often think I'm putting up with way too much crap, but then I'm still with her years later.

I expect people to be difficult, and have bad moods and lash out. It's just part of life. Where is the line drawn? Should we just stop whining about it and 'suck it up' that our partners have flaws just like we do. Nobody's perfect. Or are we in a 'danger zone' where it's time to get out? Is there an expert out there with a theory about how to define the line/boundary?

thestruggle

Sounds about right. He might even feel abused or mistreated by you too. I hear that from my abusive wife.

Yea that's me too. I wee bit of 'overlooking' and denial in there too however. Maybe we're trying to be perfect, so we 'hide' the flaws, and in doing that keep overlooking the issues that are not going away.


One of my biggest problems right now. Scary huh? Thats why I'm here. I'm feeling too much alone now that my marriage is failing and I'd invested too much in her friendship. We need to make new friends. Hi! Nice to chat! Stay in touch friend! =)


How mad? My wife thinks me standing silent with a blank look is mad.. I think she's weird. Are we talking SCREAMING at you? Or was he like... "honey, I don't want you to die" and stomps off... or what?


Can you allow him to be just weird old 'him' and just love him anyway? We discover things about our mate as time goes on... some of it is... well... disturbing to say the least.


Yup, I'm there right now too. It's hard to know what to do. Right now I'm going about my business 'independently' and the 'ball is in her court'. Not much happening on her end but she seems to be getting more distant. Ok.... I guess we'll eventually separate unless she makes some serious changes. What a roller coaster.


Ok right now thats how I'm feeling about me. You're not feeling that about you, hot stuff? =p

Let him worry about his own problems... did you marry him out of good will and charity? He might grow a bit through the experience.

unhappynewlywed

I agree with what you say. He may very well think I'm abusive too. I highly doubt it though.
He got mad in the sense that he said I cannot believe you would actually do that, like it was the worst thing I've ever done and then didn't talk to me for the rest of the afternoon... overreact much??
I don't worry about myself finding someone b/c right now that is not my priority. I want to make myself happy again. Once I do that, I feel like I will be much more ready to find someone I'm more compatable with.
I've pretty much made up my mind, it's just going through with it that scares me.
He is home now for 10 days and I just want him to leave again. When he touches me it makes my skin crawl.
He has no idea how strongly I feel about all of this. Any advice for working up the nerve to tell him and how to break it to him???

thestruggle

Thanks, I needed that. I like your way of thinking. I went toward my fear of being alone. But you're so right. Who care's that not what matters right now.

How important is it to say something? Does he somehow deserve to know in advance? Do you want his permission? He'll figure it out. Focus on your action plan. For example, preparing. Get ready. Quietly take steps towards your goal. If you announce it first and then start to prepare after, he might begin to try to steer you way from achieving your goal. I think quietly gathering your essential "go bag" is a great first step.

Curious if you'd describe his personality as seeing things very 'black and white'. Is he very orderly and strict with everything in life (like almost obsessive) Or would you say that he's really self oriented and narcissistic?

unhappynewlywed

I feel like I at least owe it to him to say something. We really haven't even fought at all. Up to this point it's been him telling me what to do and me doing it. I think it would absolutely blindside him and his familiy.

My husband is an only child and the only grand child to both sets of his grandparents. He is very self-centered and does not even realize it. If he does not want to do something, no one is going to do it. Things are incredibly black and white. There is everyone else's wrong way and then his way, the right one. Last night he went off on a rant to his grandmother about the political state of our country and how crappy it is, and how half the people shouldn't be allowed to vote because they are too uneducated. Now I do believe some people vote for people they don't even know, but that's what america is built on, we all have a say. he just doesn't agree with theirs. He continued to say that he would just bomb any country that doesn't like america... I am evil and below him b/c I want to have a drink or two every once in a while. Now I understand some people just don't drink, but he never cared until after we graduated college.

thestruggle

So would you say that you've decided to separate and that is your final absolute decision? Or are you hoping to resolve this and try to work this out between you?

If you hope to work this out, you need to communicate what you want and need in marriage. Be firm. Let him know that you want to work it out, but you're also willing to walk if he isn't willing to work together with you and meet you part way. Since you are newly married and you've not really talked/fought about issues before, you must start having some calm but serious conversations. It's a long process and can be difficult to adjust to being married.

But if you've decided, beyond a doubt to get out, then don't worry about telling him first. Get your plan together about where you're going to stay, some money, and organizing your essentials so you're ready. Take action. You have plenty of time to talk about things once you've taken steps towards your goal.
Why I say this is because if you talk first, and then start to try to prepare after, he might try to get in the way of you achieving your goal, and it could become much more difficult to get out from his controlling behavior. Makes sense?

Uptown

Unhappy, the behaviors you describe are classic traits of BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). Whether his traits are so severe as to meet diagnostic criteria is something that only a professional can determine. Yet, although you cannot determine whether he has full-blown BPD, you nonetheless are capable of getting a much better idea of what is going on by reading about typical BPD behavior.
Black-white thinking is a hallmark of a BPDer (i.e., a person with strong BPD traits). Due to this all-or-nothing thinking, a BPDer classifies everyone as "all good" or "all bad." Typically what happens is that, due to a trauma in early childhood (combined with genetics), he is unable to integrate the good and bad aspects of his personality. That is, he is unable to think of himself as a "basically decent person" who occasionally makes mistakes and has bad thoughts.

He is unable to be comfortable with such ambiguities, grey areas, and paradoxes (e.g., the notion that he's a good man doing a bad thing). Instead, he perceives of others as good or bad and, in response to any minor act or statement triggering his fears, he will reclassify someone in 10 seconds. This rigid, inflexible thinking would explain, for example, his views that some entire countries should be bombed (i.e., there are "100% good countries" and "100% bad countries").

As hard as this rigid thinking is on other people, it is even harder on him because he holds himself to the same impossible standard of being 100% right all the time. His great fear, of course, is that if he is not 100% right then he must have a flaw -- and having a flaw means he is "all bad." This is why he will come up with the most ridiculous arguments for proving he is not wrong. Moreover, he will say the nonsense with a completely straight face becase he believes them.

How is that possible? He projects the blame onto you and others, thereby avoiding the tremendous pain of feel shameful. Projection works to eliminate guilt and shame only because it occurs at the subconscious level, allowing the conscious mind to accept it as a truth. Moreover, with BPDers, the feeling is so intense that they accept it as fact. If that seems strange to you, remember that we all do that whenever we get very angry -- which is why we usually try to keep our mouths shut until we cool down.Because a BPDer is unable to regulate his emotions, waves of intense feelings sweep over him frequently and he is not good at controlling his impulses for that reason. On top of that, there is the all-or-nothing thinking which causes him to flip -- in ten seconds -- from splitting you white (adoring you) to splitting you black (devaluing you). The result is that a BPDer falls in love extremely rapidly -- and can fall out just as fast. This is why it is often said that a BPDer's feelings "are a mile wide and an inch deep." Hence, although he may love you intensely at some times, his mind can get out of touch with those feelings very quickly.Another hallmark of BPD traits is the fear of abandonment, which causes a BPDer to be very controlling of his loved ones. My exW, for example, hated for me to visit friends and family. She was afraid they would support me by challenging her attempts to control me. And she feared that I would love them more than her. Indeed, she even became jealous of my love for her own children.The angry tantrums and cold pouting (both typically lasting about five hours) are exactly what you should expect of a man whose emotional development was frozen at the age of 3 or 4.Of course not. He doesn't know how. If he is a BPDer, his ability to trust likely was destroyed by the time he was four. The inability to trust is another hallmark of BPD traits.There are two primary reasons for his creating arguments are about "stupid things." One is that a BPDer has a great fear of engulfment, the feeling of being suffocated by your strong personality during intimacy. This occurs because he has a fragile and weak sense of who is really is (remember the discussion above about him being unable to integrate his good and bad aspects into a cohesive sense of who he is). He therefore creates arguments "over nothing" to push you away so he has breathing room. This is why he is the nastiest and says the most ludicrous things immediately following a great evening or weekend when the two of you had been very close.

The other main reason for getting upset over "stupid things" is that any innocuous comment or act may trigger one of his two great fears: abandoment and engulfment. Because you never know what act or comment will be a trigger, you are always walking on eggshell. This is why the most popular BPD book (targeted to the partners) is called "Stop Walking on Eggshells."Yes, it does, as many posters have told you.Your willingness to comply with the demands of a man having the emotional development of a four year old is a sign that you are a caregiver -- and likely have aspects of codependency in your personality. Yet, the fact that you are starting to stand up for yourself after just a year is a very good sign that such codependency is mild. In contrast, I stayed with my BPD exW for 15 years and "left" then only because she abandoned me.

With codependents like me who stay for years, what typically happens is that the BPDer grows increasingly resentful each year (of his partner's inability to make him happy and fix him) that he abandons the codependent partner after about 15 years. If you would like to read more about typical BPDer behavior, Unhappy, I suggest you read my posts on GTRR's thread at http://talkaboutmarriage.com/anxiety...tml#post188319. Start caring for yourself, caregiver.