outkast44

Hi all. I'm new here and am trying to figure out what i should be doing in my relationship. I feel that i'm at that Stay/Leave crossroad. We haven't tried counseling, but i'm suggesting that this weekend for starters. I have an ongoing e-mail that I've written to her that basically states my issues. Now I'm no saint either and have stated as much, but I need help and am not being met anywhere near halfway on a lot of subjects and am getting really resentful. Names are witheld for obvious reasons. I'm open to any comments, constructive or otherwise.

Here's what I've written so far:

I feel like you are giving up and I don't think that it's fair. I'm doing everything possible to make life easier for you and I feel like you are taking advantage of that. I need help and am not getting it. I feel like all i do is work. I work at home, I work 2 jobs, I work side jobs, all because I want to keep our heads above water. I love you, but I feel that loving you is not enough if all we do is argue and fight most of the time when we are together. I understand your depression, and the fact that your mom is sick, I really do. I hate seeing you like this, but I also hate having to struggle just to survive. I don't think that it is fair that I have to work 2 jobs, and come home and clean and make dinner.

I know I didn't marry Suzie Homemaker (as you sometimes put it), but I thought I married someone who wanted to be an equal partner. I'm tired of cleaning our home, only to have it go back to the mess that it is right now within a couple of days (i know...we have a child). I'm at a point where I'm damned if I clean, or do I live in the mess. If I clean, it makes you feel guilty, which makes you feel like you have to clean right that minute. And if I don't, then I can't stand to be there and not clean. You said to me that we both contribute to making our place messy, which is true, but getting crappy with me for cleaning isn't helping. I'm at a point where I can't stand to sit in our mess. My goal has always been to have an equal partner, in every aspect of a relationship. I don't feel like we have that. You are on one page, and it feels like i'm in a totally different book.

It took me finding a second job for you to curb your online game playing at all. I'm not placing all of the blame on you either. We are both at fault. I should be a lot more vocal when i'm upset, but that is very difficult to do when I feel that you'll just loose your cool (yes, i'm still working on this). I keep waiting, thinking things will change, that you'll find a way to contribute (like you say that you want to), but it looks to me like you start to try and then come down with this "why bother" attitude when things don't go exactly as planned and just give up. I'd love nothing more than to be able to tell you that we'll make it and you can just be a stay at home mom, but thats a lie. I need help that i'm not getting. I thought that maybe you'd pick up more of the slack when I got the second job. But all i'm getting is excuses as to why things aren't done. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but thats how i feel. I understand that your depression is really kicking your butt right now and i'm sorry, maybe we need to get you back in to see a doctor and get you back on the right meds.

I figured that since I was working more, that you'd be more involved with picking up our son from school and making sure that the house was getting cleaned up. Maybe I multi-task differently or something, but I don't think that it's unreasonable to expect you to pick him up every day, especially since you don't have to get up with him and get him ready for school, unless I wake you up and ask for help (which is rare). Instead, I get a pouty attitude because I can't get him. All you have to do is leave the house to get him, and feed him dinner. I've got to get him and myself ready to leave in the morning, and deal with getting out on time, even when he's in his "don't wanna listen" frame of mind. You say to wake you up if I need help, but thats not really fun for me. You may not realize it, but every time I wake you up to help me, its met with some sort of whiney or "i'm tired" comment. I'm not expecting you to be happy about it, but when i've only had a few hours of sleep because of working the second job, it can be aggrivating. You wouldn't want to deal with that every time you needed help, so I've decided to just do it on my own and let you sleep. For a long time, i felt like i'd taken a back seat to the computer....specifically your online gaming.

Should I have made a better effort? I probably could have asked a lot more often, but when i'm asking you if you want to watch a movie, or play the a video game together, and I get shot down, what am i to think? At what point does it become begging for attention?

As for your issues with my family, and more specifically, my sister, should she have used a bit more tact when she was talking to you...absolutely, and i've told her as much. All she did was state facts, maybe kind of bluntly, but she stated facts. I know you can hold a job, but in 2 years, you went through 3 jobs, and that doesn't look good from the outside looking in, especially to employers. I supported you when you quit the first job because i know that the owner was a jerk, but you also had second job secured. When you quit the second job, i should have asked you to find another job first, but i figured that you could use a short break so I was ok with it...should I have let it go like that? In hindsight, probably not. Then when the third job landed in your lap, i figured you'd run with this job, but then your mom got sick (no one's fault) and you took off to be with her (as you should have). Where it took a turn is when you started doing things how you wanted them, like taking your neice with you, and watching movies which ultimately added to the fact that the manager was trying to run you out of there. I honestly feel that things would have changed had you just followed the rules and not taken your own liberties.

I know that you hate it when I type out stuff to tell you, but it's only because I feel put on the spot if I don't. I don't get my ideas out clearly if I can't communicate this way sometimes. It seems like you are setting yourself up to fail by not trying and by making excuses for why things are the way they are. Some days it seems like you're just sitting on the edge of your seat, waiting for me to say that I want out, and I'm only saying this based on things that you've said to me. Seriously, I don't know what to do. I hate having to write this, but I don't know what to do to help us. I just know that I can't keep going on like this if things don't eventually change. I'm mentally exhausted and it sucks. I love you more than anything and want you to be happy, but right now i feel that we're just not on the same page.

I know that you're having a hard time finding a job, and that's stressful for both of us. But I also feel that there are places that you could have applied to, a lot earlier, just to have a job for the moment and then worked there until you found the job that you wanted. I'd suggest things and you'd shoot them down, I'd suggest more places and get shot down again. I know that a fast food job is not the "ideal" job, but its money that we desperately need. You've said that if you had the second job that i'm currently dealing with, that the manager wouldn't have to have any issues....i disagree. This manager stresses sales like no other. She's so on top of that stuff that she sweats us if we don't meet our sales quotas. I don't think you'd deal well with that, especially if thats how things operated at the last place that you worked. I'd have to agree that a sales job is not for you, but there has got to be something. I don't know....do I keep telling you about the help wanted signs that I've been seeing, or do I just let you find a job on your own. I'm only asking that because i've seen a few places that are hiring, but don't know if you'll even bother to apply because its not what you're looking for, which sucks for me to think like that.

Don't get it twisted, I don't think that you are a terrible person, I just think that you've gotten very comfortable with the situation being what it is. You once told me (well more than once) that as long as I continue to do everything, you'll just let me. I don't do things to make you feel guilty, i do them because they need to be done. I'm not going to tell you to do the dishes or any other cleaning for that matter, but don't expect me to sit and chill when last nights dishes are still in the sink on the following evening. I'm not even sweating you about finding a job anymore. I figure that the job will happen when it happens, but i also feel that you have to make it happen in some capacity. Also, I didn't do the dishes to get you to clean other areas of our home, i did the dishes because they needed to be done, and I felt like doing them. I feel that I've not been doing my job by being ok with doing everything. I need to let you know that I need help. But I also feel that if you see things that need to be done, that you should do them and not just wait till later. Thats what you normally say when I start cleaning..i'll get something like "I was gonna do that in a little while." Meanwhile, whatever the task, has been waiting to be done all day.

Do we need therapy/counceling or something to help us get back on the same page?

I feel like I have to carefully plan out each and every step that I take. I feel like you are looking for me to be messing up somewhere, and all i'm doing is trying to make the best of the situation. I want to quit the second job, I really do, but if I do that, then we will sink even further than we already are. I can't let that happen and it's stressing me out, because I hate the days that I have to go work there. Then on top of it, i'm not spending enough time with you and our child, which you've made very clear, but what am I supposed to do? Not work and have us live on the street, or work my butt off and keep a roof over our heads? I think the choice is obvious.

I found some free counseling that we can get through my job, and I think that we should go and talk to someone and figure out how we can get on the same page. I hate sitting around and having you think everything is ok, when it really isn't. I'm stressed out to no end, I don't get enough sleep and i'm doing my best to not be crabby and pissed off. But when you're tired, its sometimes hard to help that. I sometimes wish that I had someone to just tell me what to do so that i wouldn't have to think about anything, but i know thats not how grown ups are supposed to be. I'm also tired of having to figure out scheduling with our child and my family so that you don't have to deal with my sister. I do this because I love you, but it is starting to make things difficult for me because I have to make sure that you are not left alone with her, now add this to my already hectic schedule, and its not going to always work out. She takes our son all over the place on saturdays, so i can't in good concience tell her no when she asks if her son (our nephew) can hang out with us. I don't want to stick you with both of them in the evening because thats not fair either. But I don't know what else to do when i have to work.

I'm confused, angry, frustrated, happy.....i've got all these feelings pent up and i don't know how to release them all the time. Yes, i said happy too, you do make me happy when we can get on the same page and work as a team.....but thats not as often as i'd like. You need help and I need help understanding you. By the time you read this, i'm hoping that we'll be in some sort of counceling to get ourselves back on track. I feel guilty as hell because i'm never home, and then when something comes up that I want to do, i feel really bad for wanting some time for myself. This is really hard on me and I don't know what to do half of the time. *end of letter*

sorry about the long read....as you can see...i'm one frustrated husband. *sigh*

MarkTwain

First of all please don't send that email without breaking it in to paragraphs, it was really hard work reading it.

Secondly, you have been handling your wife all wrong. Depressed people need work. They need stuff to do. But... they don't want to even get out of bed. You need to be a lot more firm with her. You are doing way too much.

You are wrong to try to protect her from the stress of that job you mentioned. She may well thrive in a stressful environment that she can leave behind every evening.

The other thing that you are doing is focusing on the wrong things. What will make you happiest is a more wholesome relationship, not a clean and tidy home.

You give a very one sided view of what is going on, but I am curious about the amount of money you need. Why are your overheads so high? Working 2 shifts is not leaving any time for sleep, let alone a marriage.

So tell me honestly, if I could ask her, what would be her complaints about you?

swedish

Wow, you are frustrated. Welcome to the forums. I think it's great that you are writing down your thoughts. I'd think it through before giving this to her only because a lot of it comes across like you dumping everything that's bugging you all at once in great detail and I don't know how your wife will receive it. Do you have an idea how she will react?

I would start by making short bullets in categories...

My needs within our marriage:

spend time together
divide household chores fairly (working 2 jobs and her working 0 IMO does not mean 50/50 on the chores...she should be able to do more)
to feel heard when I voice my frustrations
to spend time as a family having fun

My commitment to you:

to provide for us and keep a roof over our heads
to support you emotionally

..you see where I'm going...just summarize the basic points...It might make it easier to discuss, especially if you highlight how much you love her and the things you want to do better.

outkast44

Well, her complaints about me would be that I never sit still for too long, i don't talk much (because of her temper), I'm not "there" for her, I don't support her or take her side in a conflict or at any time for that matter. I try to "fix" situations far too much. I'm sure that there is probably more...like i said, i'm at fault as well.

There is a reason i didn't send the letter yet. I'm going to suggest counseling this weekend and see where we can go from there.

Lets just say that our debt is credit card based because we seem to "suddenly" go into being a single income household for extended periods of time and had to cover a couple of pricey car repairs and daycare expenses.

outkast44

I know how she'd react...which is why i haven't given it to her. I do however agree that I need to break it up into smaller more concise parts so that its not like i am dumping on her. I just need her help and she's not helping.

draconis

After a very long read I have a few comments.

1) It seems that after work she doesn't do anything but play her online game. This might be due to being adicted. Lord know I had to deal with that issue with the wife.

2) It seems like both of you need to learn to communicate better and actually listen to one another. Maybe counsiling will help.

3) I'd revise the letter. First it is hard to read break it into paragraphs, smaller and earier on the eyes. Second, don't just tell her what is wrong with her but what is lacking in the marriage.

4) Make a list of what you can start to work on yourself, including things for yourself and stress relieves.

I wish you the best. For now I wanted to comment on the "letter" and not your situation. Maybe that will follow.

draconis

__________________
www.myspace.com/draconis1973

outkast44

Well I "paragraphed" it to make it easier to read, and thank you for all who have commented. I find it refreshing and very constructive. I look forward to any other advice that anyone can give. I'm just trying to figure out how to NOT feel this way.

swedish

Our eye doctors thank you for that

swedish

Okay, didn't want to hi-jack the online gaming thread, but big red flag that you'd rather have your son in daycare than with his mom. The part of your post where you talk about going to the Dr. and reviewing her meds...that might be first on the list, dealing with her depression...she needs to be able to get out of bed each day and accomplish something...otherwise she will keep sinking deeper because self-loathing will set in.

MarkTwain

Well let me make a guess, and you can tell me how off beam I am:

You are avoiding being alone with her as much as possible. And their is little intimacy.

outkast44

thats somewhat correct. I don't go out of my way to be away from her. I try to spend time with her, but when she's ready to chill with me, i've given up for the night and am off doing chores. Intimacy......its there....sometimes....i wouldn't say between moderate to little.

MarkTwain

I believe the solution is in your own comments:

Can you elaborate on all the above?

guiltygirl

Okay, I skimmed your original post because I was curious about your wife's depression. I can give you some perspective on this. I am Bi-Polar, and mental illness is a challenging thing to deal with, especially for the non-depressed partner. My husband has endured a great deal with me over the years.

When I was a stay-at-home mom or when I was unemployed, it caused a lot of problems in our marriage...to the point that I thought we weren't going to make it. The anxiety and depression take over your life...paralyzing you from doing anything (like actively pursuing a job). It sounds like the gaming is her escape from reality. I know TV was mine back in the day.

Our situation was a little different. I still helped around the house and took care of our daughter when she wasn't in daycare, but I will admit that this was extremely difficult to do when I was depressed. I just had to make myself do these things, even if I didn't feel like it.

I still struggle with this, as depression is an ongoing thing. Try not to tell her what to do about her meds, because you will probably offend her. She seems like she is resistant to doing anything to change the situation, which makes things even worse. I'm not sure how to "open her eyes" to this. I think your plan for counseling is probably a good start. The counselor may be able to suggest a good direction for your wife regarding medication management with her doctor.

This is a great place to vent and get your feelings out, so I am glad that you are utilizing it. I really hope thngs get better for you.

ljtseng

I think some of your stress is your lack of boundaries. You are holding her accountable for the clean house even though its what you want. If you want it, then do it. If she doesnt want to, she really doesnt have to.

But i think you focus on the cleanliness of the house because its a way to express your frustration about the money situation. I dont think you are at all wrong for wanting the stress from working so much to be alleviated. But by trying to make her alleviate it is not going to help. You're only putting more stress, more responsibility on yourself. Maybe if you look around your place there are some things you can sell? Are there things you dont need? I personally hate money stress. So I have very little and i sell anything i haven't used in a month. I never want a house. I have a beat up ol' truck that now sits in the parking lot (which im thinking of selling) and i ride my bike and take the bus. i cant remember the last time i bought gas. Since the stress is the money situation i think you should focus on how to cut your spending and sell things to make some money (the computer maybe . Do you guys have a strict budget? I think you both need to learn how to manage money to help alleviate your stress.

outkast44

Well, the house being clean is both of our faults, and while she was away, i made sure to clean it from top to bottom to get it back into shape so that she'd have very little to maintain when she got back from taking care of her mom. She'll even comment that she needs to clean and then just sit there. If she didn't mention it, i don't think i'd make it as big a deal as it seems. As for selling things, i think this is another area where i feel that i've made a major sacrifice. I collect air jordans...well i used to. I've gone and sold all of the pairs that would make me over a hundred bucks, except for my most favorite pair. The rest wouldn't garner anything other than a few dollars. I'm still looking for areas to cut, as i think that is a wonderful suggestion.