maxter

Hello everyone,
This is my first post. I'm so happy I found this website. It gives me comfort knowing I'm not alone in this world with the pain and anguish I'm feeling about the failure of my marriage.

My W and I have been married 11 years. I'm 45, she's 41. We have two beautiful twin daughters, age 9. We both got married later in life which should be a good thing, right? We should know what we want and have established ourselves, more mature and all that jazz.

We've had trouble since the beginning. Personality conflicts being the main issue. Lots of arguments. We are polar opposites when it comes to personalities. And neither one of us had the skills to argue effectively to find any solutions.

We did MC about a year before having the girls and things seemed to improve for awhile. Then the girls were born 7 wks premature and our lives were turned upside down. Don't get me wrong, they were very healthy but did spend 23 days in NICU and then when they finally came home we both had our work cut out for us. With two babies and two parents, neither one of us ever got a break. It was very stressful and tiring but we managed through it.

Then I went off track when the girls were about 3yrs old. I wasn't happy with my life, wife stayed home with the kids- not working, I was the sole wage earner, financial difficulties, and lots of daily stress caring for two toddlers at one time. I started drinking to relieve the tension and I became addicted to booze. Drank every day & night for three years. This was the catalyst for our eventual downfall.

Well as you can imagine, the W didn't take all the drinking and neglect very well. She even complained about it many times but I was in the addiction phase and didn't care. I just needed my daily fix of booze. She finally tired off all this and withdrew from the marriage much like I had withdrew into myself with the booze.

About three years ago during this vulnerable time, she was contacted by an old boyfriend who was having marital problems of his own (his wife was a drunk) and wanted to renew the friendship. Timing is everything! She latched onto that very quickly. You can see where this is going I'm sure. They had everything in common regarding their marriage crisis. He fullfilled a much needed void in her life emotionally. Within two weeks they were having an EA via email which I stumbled upon one night after work. That was April 15, 2008.

I stopped drinking that very day and have been sober since. That email I found was my wake up call (too late of course) and I decided if I wanted to save my marriage, I must get help right away. I've done IC, MC, Anger Management, and group therapy. Still in IC to this day. I take medication for depression and anxiety. I've made significant changes and improvements in my life which my W has recognized and acknowledges. I've taken responsibility for my abhorent behavior and apologized may times. However, she has not been able to do the same even with IC and some MC.

Over the past three years, she has continued the EA off and on. I've caught here rekindling the affair many times while lying her @ass off to me and the MC about it. She took it underground several times with secret email acounts, secret texting, secret cell phones, etc. Each time I was able to find out and confront her. She exhibits remorse, cries, begs me not to do anything rash and promises never to do it again only to revert back to her old ways.

Last week I again found a lengthy email from her to him which unfortunately confirmed several suspicions I've had but could never prove. Turns out she did have a PA at least once with the OM and wants to do it again. He recently divorced his drunkard wife, got his own place and has custody of his kids. So he's readily available to carry on with this affair.

Last week was the last straw for me. I now realize she's never going to change and I need to get on with my life. And therein lies the problem. I want (desparately need) a separation but we simply cannot afford to do it. I told her this and she just says we can't do it financially. I've run the numbers and it's just not possible so she's right. She does work full time now but only makes $11/hr. I'm the primary wage earner. And now with school out, we have a $3000 babysitting expense for the summer.

I feel trapped. My head is spinning. I'm consumed with the latest setback. I can't concentrate. I can't think straight. Having memory problems. Haven't done any 'real' work at my job since finding her email. Yesterday I felt like I was on the verge of a panic attack.

She says she won't try to stop me from leaving but we first need to get our financial house in order. She wants me to stay for 6 mos so we can pay down some debt and she can post out of her current job and get a better paying one. I don't think I can make it another six months!!! The pain, tension, and bitterness is overwhelming. How can I possibly do this any longer?

Very sorry for the long story, but wanted to get it all out there.

My questions are:

1. Since I have to stay in the same house, I don't feel I can effectively do The 180. To keep the household running, I can't simply back off and not do anything. Most things like cleaning, shopping, banking, and activities are intertwined with the kids wellbeing. Should I just suck it up, bury my emotions and somehow muddle through the next 6 mos?

2. When it comes time and I can actually move out, what do I need to do if anything to protect myself? I've seen posts that say don't leave till you see a lawyer. Something about abandonment. How can she say I abandoned her if I earn 80% of our income and still support her and the girls? I also see posts where it appears the couple just splits on a friendly basis without any legal arrangements being made.

OK, let me have it! Any and all advise is wanted at this time. I don't know what to do anymore. Maybe some of you can relate your experiences, successes and offer some suggestions.

grizabella

It appears she's just using you for financial security while she rips your marriage to shreds with the OM. Let him support her if she's so attached to him. Many women are single mothers on a lot less and and there is help through different social agencies, but of course, she will have to put forth
some effort to find it. If this marriage can't be saved, then you have to save yourself or you will have nothing left to give your daughters.

maxter

That's my feeling exactly. She's only been playing me along for the financial security. I don't like being played, lied to and deceived constantly. It's very demeaning and generates alot of bitterness. Yes, save myself, that's how I'm feeling. Like if I don't do something now, my very being is going to vanish. I feel like a defeated man.

She keeps the pressure on by telling me what my leaving will do to our girls. We will experence financial callapse (which I tend to believe) and destroy their lives. It's vitally important to her not to leave-on to our girls that anything is wrong and to keep them in a stable home they are happy in.

The guilt of leaving in general is very overwhelming.

DayDream

Women have a tendency, especially when they aren't financially set, to make sure they have someone on the side to go to when the ball finally drops. And people, unfortunately, have enough selfishness to do nothing but look out for numero-uno when they lose feelings for someone - to the point of cruelly manipulating to get their way, i.e. using the kids and guilt to keep you there long enough til they know the other person is going to take them in and be the one to support them. Which probably hasnt' happened on the other guy's end. I agree...you're being used. Stick up for yourself and do the right thing for your kids. Get out of that. First thing, though, is to talk to a lawyer and find out what your rights are and how to properly do this so that you can retain the custody rights you want and so you can be fairly treated during the divorce.

As for the girls...they aren't stupid. They will know something is not right, and you will just end up not only showing them what a bad marriage is...but also betrayal when you guys finally can't take it anymore and do split and they find out you've been hiding it the whole time. What would that do to them when everything they thought was fine and good was really only crap? Sorry to be so blunt, but it's true. They deserve to know the truth and to be treated like intelligent human beings, rather than keeping them in the dark and demeaning their capacity of understanding what is going on. Their lives are just beginning, and will not be destroyed.

My parents should have gotten divorced when we were young (four brothers and a sister) but they didn't, and now my mom is a bitter and cold woman who hates my dad for everything he ever did, and he is destroyed and sad and pathetic and remorseful. So rather than seperating and becoming the people they used to be and fixing themselves...they continued down the path of destruction until they are in their seventies and are old and broken. Don't become that.

I pray you do the right thing. Good luck and Godspeed!

Catherine602

Put your girls first then uourself. I agree they know something is up. They know dad is not happy and they lived. Through the qlcholhilic period. Yes she played a cruel game with you but it is over with her. Now everything you do must be to be q good man and role model to your kids. Fix yourself up and plan on an eventual healthy relationship so they get to see dad recoveded and happy and in a good relationship.

You and your wife have had some challenges and you both handeled in dysfunctional ways at some points. But what is truly terrible about this is the cold deception and stringing you along. But I believe that karma will take care of that in time. Let her and this man have each other I don't see it ending well. Two cheaters.

You however have worked hard to overcome your problems and have remained faithful. You are great relationship material- give yourself time to get out and recover and establish a firm relationship with your girls. Remember, you may be the only one who will model good adult relationships to them so select the next long term partner carefully next time.

You will get through this and your hard work will pay off. It say nothing about you that you were unfortunate to be married to a deceptive woman, it says all about her. she will realize what a good man she gave up in time but it will be too late. Hang in there, you are closer now to a happy existence than you have been in years so let this play out. Seek legal advice and do an in house separation.

Write out an agreement about what exactly need to be accomplished while you stay together. If the goals are not being met and there is foot dragging to keep you in house you may have to change things up. You take charge she is not capable of looking out for her own children if she can be so deceptive. So you are responsible for setting the pace and orderly transition. Good luck.
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maxter

Wow, this is great feedback! It makes me feel alittle better about myself and hopes for a better future outside this horrible marriage. But at the same time, it's disheartening in that it reaffirms my understanding of how bad the situation really is.

stillme4you> you hit it right on the head. In fact he's not ready or possibly even willing to take her in. Their EA has been rocky, with fits and starts. She's hanging onto a fantasy about what life could be like with him. But he's an adulterer and user, through and through. He cheated on my W when they originally dated. He left her after 3mos to go marry some OW. He's cheated on his recent exwife for years. He's a real POS. It's good he lives 2hrs away. God forbid I ever run into him face to face.

And you're correct about our girls. They've already experienced some bad arguments and behaviors on both our parts. They ask some scary questions about mommy & daddy's love for each other and our family unit sometimes. They have friends in school with only one parent and the idea is both foreign and frightening to them.

Catherine602> I agree completely about my W and the OM not ending up well. Two disfunctional cheaters will not make a good combination.

So I guess my next step is to make an appointment with an attorney to help guide me in the right legal direction. Thanks for the kind words and encouragement.

MEM11363

TD,
Go see a lawyer. And then shutdown ALL discretionary spending.
Yours and hers. And detach from her. Be polite but no more
I love you stuff...

this is great feedback! It makes me feel alittle better about myself and hopes for a better future outside this horrible marriage. But at the same time, it's disheartening in that it reaffirms my understanding of how bad the situation really is.

stillme4you> you hit it right on the head. In fact he's not ready or possibly even willing to take her in. Their EA has been rocky, with fits and starts. She's hanging onto a fantasy about what life could be like with him. But he's an adulterer and user, through and through. He cheated on my W when they originally dated. He left her after 3mos to go marry some OW. He's cheated on his recent exwife for years. He's a real POS. It's good he lives 2hrs away. God forbid I ever run into him face to face.

And you're correct about our girls. They've already experienced some bad arguments and behaviors on both our parts. They ask some scary questions about mommy & daddy's love for each other and our family unit sometimes. They have friends in school with only one parent and the idea is both foreign and frightening to them.

Catherine602> I agree completely about my W and the OM not ending up well. Two disfunctional cheaters will not make a good combination.

So I guess my next step is to make an appointment with an attorney to help guide me in the right legal direction. Thanks for the kind words and encouragement.[/QUOTE]
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maxter

Here is an update. I managed to get her to talk with me last night about separation planning. It was only 30mins but at least she was fairly calm about it. Her biggest concern seems to be financial. She didn't express any emotion or feelings about the fact that our marriage is ending. Oh well.

She keeps saying she can't support herself and our girls on $11/hr. I keep telling her I'm not leaving her with only her paycheck. That I still need to support the household my kids are living in which in turn means supporting her to some extent. The worst thing is we just don't make enough money to support two households at the moment. Hence my feelings of being trapped. I have a solution for that but she's reluctant to agree.

I have a classic car, 1971 Buick Gran Sport (tribute), that I've had since before meeting the W. It's my last and only remaining hobby, as work and raising children has replaced all else. Mostly it sits in the garage because I don't have time or $$ to work on it. I proposed selling the car to give us the money needed to cover the extra expenses. It's would get us by for 2-3yrs. Hopefully by then she's making more money.

Anyway, the car is titled in both our names and I cannot sell it without her consent because we both must sign over the title to any new owner. And she's been refusing to do so saying the car is too important to me and selling it will make me feel bad, it has sentimental value, etc. She's more worried about how I feel about a stupid car than the fact our relationship and very way of life is comming to an end. It just blows my mind!

Last night was the first time she seemed to be opening up to the idea of selling. I told her to give it some serious consideration. Yeah, I like the car and all, but peace of mind, emotional stability and getting on with my life are more important to me. I can always buy another car (someday hopefully)

the guy

Your wife is a serial cheater and has slept with another man. I get the fact that your trapped finacially but not emotionall. She continues to hurt you and you tolorate it.
At the very least move her stuff out of the bed room and out to the garage.

She cake eating and thats BS, at the very least you can give her a taste of what it will be like when you guy split. Stop supporting her adultry. Close your joint accounts and cut her off.

You are making this to easy for her to continue this affair. Until she want to recommit to the marriage I see no reason to support her.

Sure it will take extra work but take care of your kids and manage your house but as far as paying for her gas to see the OM and paying for her cell so she can have phone sex with the OM is nuts.

You can't control her it is her choice to continue on her path, but at least stop inabling to have an affair. If she doesn't like the new then she can leave. Im what exactly is the $11 an hour contribute to? Most likly most of it goes to her. Her makeup so she can look good for OM. I have a feeling she is dumbing most of her dough on seeing him then helpinh out the household. Just something you may want to look into.

Again I can understand you feeling trapped but you must look at your self and the man that lost him self by being managed by a disloyal wife.

Jellybeans

You need to start planning practically.
Save some $. If she wants out, she can leave, too.
If seslling is what you both agree to, great.
Does she know you know about the EA-turned-PA? I would tell her you know if you haven't already.
She is a serial cheater, as someone mentioned on here. Get tested for STDs.
180s can be done while you're still living in the same house.
Try to stay positive and be the best father you can for your daughters.

Locard

Stop reassuring her Mr. Plan B. I know its hard. If you are making 80 percent of the money I would be putting your pay in your own account and make sure she does not have access to it. She needs to feel what it is going to be like. Why do you feel obligated to her? This same mentality is why she felt she could do this in the first place, she knows of your kindness and took you for a fool! Best of luck, your obligation is to you children now.

Familylaw_LA

You really need to speak with a family law attorney. Things you do now could have long term consequences in terms of your finances and child custody. There may immediate options available to you that you haven't thought about and a temporary order pending the divorce may solve some of the problems you mentioned. Best of luck. Twitter

maxter

OK, it's been awhile and here's an update. All the previous posts about being a doormat and enabler ring true. I understand that. I've been staying put mainly for our girls sake to make this summer as stable and fun for them as possible. Since I cannot make any changes right now due to our temporary financial situation (child care expenses) I decided to make use of this time to try and crack the barrier that my wife has put up against true R. I know it's a long shot, but what the hell. At least I can leave knowing that I did everything possible to turn this around and that makes me feel better about myself.

She is unable or unwilling (not exactly sure which) to acknowlege, take ownership, be honest, or offer transparency about the A. So I've been 'mentoring' her by providing numerous articles found on the web and this site about affairs, how they happen, the emotional effects felt by the cheater, the impact on the DS & family, remorse, reconciliation, etc. She has read all of them and told me so. She even said they were informative and gave her new perspective on the situation.

By the way, with her new full time job and home responsibilities, she is really busy which leaves little time for contacting the OM. I have not been monitoring communications, so I really don't now if they text or call. But I think he's once again broken contact with her and the FOG has lifted which may allow some of what I'm doing to sink in.

I also have been stepping up my game. Being more attentive, affectionate, initiating sex more often, taking care of the household tasks & making dinner since she works later than I do. Running the kids around everywhere to their activities. Planned our family vacation this year. I want her to see how good life really is with us. I know- major doormat situation. I should be doing 180 and distancing myself. That will come soon enough this fall if she doesn't come around. Until then I'm going to keep trying to save this marriage!

I gave her some time to absorb the material and things I've been doing to see what she would do. Unfortunately, nothing happened. No R efforts from her. She's nice and all. We've been getting along fine, no arguments or fights. Just day to day living. So first week of July, I sat down with her to talk about the lack of R on her part. Layed it out exactly what I need from her for True R. Told her time is ticking away. Told her she should be trying harder to see her IC (IC is booked till Sept, but you can call in daily looking for cancellations). She took it all in but not much response to my talk. So I continue with my efforts.

I setup a date night, dinner and a movie. We had a good time, almost like when we were dating before getting married. We went on our family vacation to Myrtle Beach and had a wonderful time. Had good sex too Now here we are beginning of Aug and still no R efforts from her. In fact she just did something that makes me uneasy. Her cell phone has been acting up. She drops it all the time and it's a few years old. So the day after we get back from vacation, she goes and gets a new 3G phone. Doesn't tell me, but does use our joint account to pay for it so that's how I found out. She could easily have used her personal credit card but didn't. It's been four days now and she hasn't showed me her new phone or said anything about it. WTH? Again, no transparency.

So I'm about to confront her one last time about her lack of effort to R. Probably not worth the effort, but like I said, might as well keep the pressure on while I'm stuck here. Here is the script I'm going to use. Take a read and let me know if I should change if anything.

Here we are another month later after I talked with you the beginning of July and still nothing from you! It would be nice if you had the maturity and guts to resolve the issue of your affair, but I guess that's not going to happen. So far there still has not been any acknowledgement, remorse, ownership, honesty, or transparency forthcoming from you. All you do is rugsweep the issue and behave nicely toward me. That is not enough.

Yes, In the past I too have fallen short of meeting my responsibility as a loving husband. I did not honor my vows as I should have. But unlike you, when confronted with loosing my wife & family I took the initiative to seek out help, make changes within myself, take responsibility for what I did to you and appologize for it.

From all appearances and your lack of action, it seems that you are willing to give up your life as you've known it (and a pretty good one at that). It is very sad and depressing to know you can throw it all away. I would like to know why. Is it pride or ego? Why can't you come clean and resolve this elephant in the room? What is holding you back? Maybe you're done with me but simply can't say it. I just don't know.

You should start thinking about divorce and how we will separate things like the house, equity, debts and such. Also, think about the girls and what is best for THEM with regard to custody (and not just what you want or feels good to you). What I mean by that is an equality of time shared with both of us, not skewed to one parent or the other. They love us both very much and deserve equal time with each of us.

Time is running out fast. The summer is almost over and the added childcare expense will be going away. This will change our financial dynamic and allow for the necessary changes to take place. Changes I don't want but feel are necessary due to the circumstances. I will NOT tolerate any further rugsweeping of what you have done to me and our family. Staying in a marriage without trust, being a doormat, being played is not healthy and does not set a good example. I must do what is right for me and set an appropriate example for our girls as to what is acceptable in a marriage & relationship. Doing so will allow them to reflect on what happened between us later in their lives and see how it was eventually resolved in a healthy way.

I do love you very much and want to reconcile. It's all in your hands now. You must do the heavy lifting from here on out. I pray you're up to the task.

upset/confused

I would remove, I love you very much. She knows this and will use this against you. Present her with your idea of how/what will be split up financially, child care etc.

Did you consult with a lawyer? Please do

maxter

Update-
I didn't have an opportunity to go through my script outlined above in red text with her yet. But she did come to me this weekend and asked me what did I expect from her after giving her the literature about A's, True R and such. I told her I hoped she would read them and gain some understanding of herself and the effects of the A on us both, and what True R really looks like when it's implemented properly. And that I haven't seen any efforts on her part yet and it was really bothering me as time is running out, fall is coming.

She told me that I'm trying to stipulate how she should feel and act. That she understands the mistakes she's made. She didn't say 'affair', just that she made mistakes. She says I'm never satisfied with how she does things. That it's never good enough for me. She said this in reference to IC I asked her to restart (it's been months since her last session). She continues to state that Sept is the first available appt. I reiterated she can call any day, even everyday to get cancellation appts. No response to this.

From there she tells me she's upset that I criticized her IC a few weeks ago. I responded that I wasn't trying to criticize IC, but that I had concerns that the A wasn't being addressed at all and therefore she didn't come to grips with the A and what it was doing to me and our family. She didn't say whether A was discussed but proceeded to tell me there were alot of other issues going on in her life at the time (several deaths within her family, close relatives) and she was working through those problems.

She also says that she feels there is a 'mental block' of some kind in her mind that is preventing her from moving forward. She hopes MC & IC will help her break through that wall. I do too! We haven't had a MC session in a year. Our next MC session is this week. I will have to see if she can open up anymore with some mediation from the therapist.

One question: If I provide literature and verbally outline what I need for True R, is that being to controlling? For example, remorse should be part of True R, and when I state I haven't seen any display of remorse she says I'm trying to tell her how to feel. Also, when I press her about doing more to get an IC appt, she says I'm never satisfied with her efforts. That her making the first available appt wasn't good enough. I'm really trying to offer gentle direction & guidance with regards to what she needs to do. I don't harp on it. I don't get verbally abusive, just calmly point out where she could improve in certain areas. What do you all think?