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For a low conflict marriage, is divorce truely better for the children?

19K views 119 replies 41 participants last post by  Trickster 
#1 ·
I know there is a bias here on TAM about staying in an unhappy marriage for the kids. I not talking about the parents who fight and argue all the time.

I will agree that most Tammers have been through hell because of cheating or emotional abuse. Divorce is a no brainer in those cases. What about the others?

What if divorce causes more anger between the parents. The problems don't go away just because the parents divorce. Sometimes it causes more anger and the kids are stuck in the middle.

My wife and I have a very low conflict marriage. In 23 years, I have had just one episode of yelling/rage. Well, maybe one more a couple years ago. That's because I expected too much from her. That was my mistake. I am over trying to change her.

The worst thing is that our daughter never sees us being affectionate. Is that really worse than divorce?


I went through a very sad time realizing that my wife of 23 years loves me as a friend. I have accepted that truth and I am much happier now.

I can't find a non-bjased study with divorces from low conflict in marriages.(without cheating being involved)

I am so conflicted.
 
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#2 ·
The worst thing is that our daughter never sees us being affectionate. Is that really worse than divorce?


I went through a very sad time realizing that my wife of 23 years loves me as a friend. I have accepted that truth and I am much happier now.
If this is what you want your daughter to think marriage is supposed to be.
 
#3 ·
Many years ago, My wife and I were visiting my sister and her family. At some point, my sister and her husband had a huge argument. They both said very mean things to each other. I think her kids were about the same age as my daughter is now. So I pulled them aside and told them this is not a "normal marriage". This is not the way it is supposed to be. They both responded. " this is nothing. You should see them when you're not here.

As of now my daughter believes things are hunky dory.

What do I want to teach her about marriage? I think she will come to her own conclusion on marriage no matter what I do with mine. My wife and I both agree that we love our daughter more than anything else. My wife has given me the most amazing daughter ever. In spite of her medical condition, she has this amazing confidence about her. I fear divorce will destroy that confidence she has.

The question still remains. Would a divorce improve the life of my daughter?
 
#7 ·
Many years ago, My wife and I were visiting my sister and her family. At some point, my sister and her husband had a huge argument. They both said very mean things to each other. I think her kids were about the same age as my daughter is now. So I pulled them aside and told them this is not a "normal marriage". This is not the way it is supposed to be. They both responded. " this is nothing. You should see them when you're not here.

As of now my daughter believes things are hunky dory.

What do I want to teach her about marriage? I think she will come to her own conclusion on marriage no matter what I do with mine. My wife and I both agree that we love our daughter more than anything else. My wife has given me the most amazing daughter ever. In spite of her medical condition, she has this amazing confidence about her. I fear divorce will destroy that confidence she has.

The question still remains. Would a divorce improve the life of my daughter?
I don't know about this. One of the greatest gifts to my husband and I has been the role models we had of awesome marriage growing up.
 
#4 ·
Of course you will have varying points of view. Divorce is usually traumatising for kids as the world as they know it is fractured. As you know all marriages are not perfect and it is possible that your daughter sees the things she doesn't like (such as lack of affection) and ensures that they do not happen in her own marriage.

My H grew up in an asian family that did not show any affection. Parents slept in separate bedrooms, no hugs, kisses for kids etc. However, with our kids, he hugs and kisses them all the time, so although the kids have their run ins and arguments with him, they know they are very loved.
 
#5 ·
Is your husband affectionate with you?

Yes, I don't believe that having a lack of affection will beget children who lack affection, as long as parents show affection to their children. I've spent the last several years initating more affection and being frustrated because wife wife never tried. It was hopeless.

Both, my wife and I shower our daughter with TLC. Without a doubt, she knows we love her to pieces, which is why she is so confident. I NEVER felt I was loved from my parents. They were never affectionate with me in anyway and I was always withdrawn in my younger years. They also fought a lot and divorced. Today, at least in recent years, I have become very social.

I don't think our daughter will be damaged because mom an dad never kiss and sleep in different rooms. When she starts asking questions, I will sit her down, like I did with my niece and nephew and tell her its not the way a marriage is supposed to be.
 
#6 ·
Consider that when your D gets older and you tell her that this is not the way a normal marriage is supposed to be, that you are not fulfilled or even all that genuinely happy and you lived this life for her-she might resent the hell out of you. I think children genuinely want their parents to be happy. I also happen to think children learn how their supposed to be happy in life from watching their families. Dysfunctional families generally, although clearly not always, end up producing dysfunctional adults who end up dealing with their FOO problems in their adult relationships.

Divorce isn't the end of the world to many children. If they continue to feel secure, and see true joy in their parents-they end up just fine. Mine are.
 
#9 ·
How does anybody know what our kids will resent when they get older. If we divorce, I will not being in her life DAILY. We will no longer have our NIGHTLY reading ritual. We will stop our bike rides or it will happen much less. Homework? I enjoy helping her with math homework. I stink at grammar, so her mother helps her with that.

Even with "normal parents", kids can still have their issues. What about those amazingly loving perfect parents with the perfect marriage? Those parents may set the bar so high that their children never find that type of relationship!

Sometimes I think it's narcissistic to divorce if young children are involved. This "we only live once and it should be happy "? IDK it should be what is best for the kids.

If the children are unhappy because of the parents behavior, Yes, divorce.

I still don't know if a divorce would make our daughter happier.
 
#8 ·
If lack of affection between the parents is your only concern I would say divorce is worse. My parents divorced and it was horrible. Divorce is better if the alternative is to keep your kids around unhealthy and frequent conflict. Usually children who are old enough will tell you that they want you to divorce because they are sick of the fighting and the hostile environment.
 
#12 ·
This is all relative. Up until a few months ago, I became an a-hole. I tried for several years to get my wife to love me in the way that I wanted her to. The harder I tried, the resentments built up. Nothing worked. My wife telling me she had a platonic love for me after 20 plus years broke my heart and I wanted to punish her. I'll say that again. I wanted to punish her for not loving me. That was the unhealthy part. I no longer feel the desire to do that.

I found my own happiness in my life. I no longer need my wife to make me happy. I was so Co-dependent for so many years. I see that now.

I still think my marriage is dysfunctional, I just don't know where that line is when a diviry is the better solution. That's all.
 
#11 ·
I was probably focusing on something not relevant. My comment was role model FOR MARRIAGE. But that sounds unattainable so probably low conflict marriage is better for her than divorce. Or... would it be better to get the bandage off the wound so she can heal?

Sorry I guess I have no clue. Just sympathy.
 
#13 ·
Were your parents divorced, trickster? How did you feel about it?
 
#16 ·
This is a very loaded question.

My parents fought all the time. Physical fights. My mom drank a lot and she was probably drunk most nights. When I was 7, our dad abandoned 4 kids with an alcoholic mother to marry his AP and moved to another state.. We were kicked out of our house and all of our belongings were moved out into the yard.. We moved a half dozen times in a few short years. For a while, we lived in a neighbors garage.

My mother died when I was 14 from cirrhosis of the liver. We then moved in with our dad and step-mom. All 4 of us were kicked out of the house, most of us before we finished H.S. I lived with a co-workers my whole senior year. I still graduated. My dad has passed away already, as well as both of my brothers. My sister and I are it.
 
#15 ·
Children want to know that their parents are happy and fulfilled. They don't care if you are having sex and sleeping in the same room. Long ago, most married people slept in separate beds or rooms. My kids thinks I had sex 2xs to make them. (Even though they know about sex and we have had lots of talks) They don't want to know about that.

However, what they want is to see their parents smiling, laughing and being affectionate with each other. By affectionate I mean the hugs, kisses on cheeks, quick pecks, sitting close to each other etc.

If you and your wife can be in a friendly situation where you are sharing those non-sexual activities with each other, then, you kids will never know you are not having sex.

My kids used to be sad when they would not see us smiling or hugging. They will immediately want to know what is going on. Did mum or dad did something? My son will tell my husband to say you are sorry and fix it. My daughter will blame me for making her dad unhappy.

I have learned when the kids don't see you are connecting, they assume something is wrong. Then, they try to figure out what is going on. Then, the buggers start placing blame.

So, it's all in how you and your wife interact with each other. If at any time you kid(s) start questioning your relationship with your wife, then, you can explain things to them. See how they view your marriage, you will be surprised at the insights they have.
 
#17 ·
I am really sorry to hear this, trickster. :(
 
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#18 ·
I think as long as you're not having loud fights and are cordial and still laughing and doing things together as a family it's better for the kids than divorce.

I'm in a similar situation. Married 23 years. We've gotten into a few loud fights over the years but not many. The sad part of the whole thing is that my boys are getting to the age (15 & 12) that they're starting to realize their mom is a little nuts. Divorce would only make that worse. For now I'm just trying to maintain the status quo.
 
#20 ·
I could write a book. To be honest my coping mechanism over the years has been to let it go in one ear and out the other. She has a "Medical Crisis" literally every week. The past week she's had a cold. Walking around coughing with her tongue sticking out like a 3 year old. The week before that was a torn rotator cuff WITH the muscle separated from the bone. Miraculously recovered overnight from that. On her death bed numerous times with heart palpitations. Having a stroke. Thinks I should give myself a raise so she won't have to work. I could go on and on but...
 
#26 · (Edited)
The wait time may be easy if you think about it in terms of the benefit to your daughter. She is entering her tweens, a time that is critical for her future ability to have healthy relationships. You have a pivotal role in that.

Learn about the effects of D on girls. You want to leave in about 7 years. She will still need you. Be care that she does not get the impression that you left your family and her to get a new woman. Make her a priority.
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#30 ·
My daughter is my world. I feel guilty even when I work on ac Satuday. I still go to the Pops Concert Symphony series with friends. I feel bad about that. She is older now and can stay up later. For this season, I may get an extra ticket for her. Another friend brings his daughter, who is a couple years older. They would get along great.
 
#27 ·
If you two feel like you can have a divorce and still be happy and love each other like friends then your daughter should be ok. As long as she feels included with both of your lives. Or maybe you and your wife can work out an agreement to where you two can live together for a while but be separated and see how that works, maybe talk to your daughter too and get her feelings on it. Also, I think seeing a counselor will be good for you. It will help you sort through your feelings and find some closure.
 
#32 ·
This could be a short term solution. I, we, have talked about this. I would get our home refinanced in my name and used the extra equity to pay off all of our debt. She would live in the home until our daughter is 18/ graduates or whatever time frame we choose... Still working out the logistics. My wife is a very long way from being financially independent. So I would still pay for the bulk of the bills. Nothing really changes. She won't change until our daughter is 18

I've been to an IC. She validated many of the feelings I have. She wants to see my wife, but she refuses to go. So the IC only gets my version of everything.
 
#28 ·
I know there is a bias here on TAM about staying in an unhappy marriage for the kids. I not talking about the parents who fight and argue all the time.

I will agree that most Tammers have been through hell because of cheating or emotional abuse. Divorce is a no brainer in those cases. What about the others?

What if divorce causes more anger between the parents. The problems don't go away just because the parents divorce. Sometimes it causes more anger and the kids are stuck in the middle.
It's the parents responsibility to keep the kids out of the conflict. They should never see one parent bad mouthing the other.

My wife and I have a very low conflict marriage. In 23 years, I have had just one episode of yelling/rage. Well, maybe one more a couple years ago. That's because I expected too much from her. That was my mistake. I am over trying to change her.

The worst thing is that our daughter never sees us being affectionate. Is that really worse than divorce?
In 20 years or so how will you feel when you see her in the same misery you have now as that is what she expected of marriage.

You are her role model and seeing her parents happy even if not with each other is important.

I went through a very sad time realizing that my wife of 23 years loves me as a friend. I have accepted that truth and I am much happier now.

I can't find a non-bjased study with divorces from low conflict in marriages.(without cheating being involved)

I am so conflicted.
My XW saw me that way and thought I was selfish for wanting more. It's no way to live, you have a right to be loved properly by someone who appreciates you as more than a roommate.
 
#31 ·
It's the parents responsibility to keep the kids out of the conflict. They should never see one parent bad mouthing the other.



In 20 years or so how will you feel when you see her in the same misery you have now as that is what she expected of marriage.

You are her role model and seeing her parents happy even if not with each other is important.



My XW saw me that way and thought I was selfish for wanting more. It's no way to live, you have a right to be loved properly by someone who appreciates you as more than a roommate.
The future is unknown. I am living proof that I am not repeating the life my parents. At some point, when we become adults, we know right from wrong. Asan adult, I have many older adult role models. My parents were never affectionate with me, but I know that is necessary for kids as well as adults. Like I said in another post, I went out with a female friend and I got the best hug in all the world. It was just a friendly hug and I needed that.


We are happy. Well, that a slight exaggeration. We are managing. I am not in misery. I know what that is. We're are far from that.

This isn't about my happiness. It's about our daughter. It's important that we give her the best childhood possible. That's our job.
 
#33 ·
I can honestly say I spent a good portion of my teenage years wishing my parents would divorce. There was some fighting, but mostly it was just my father taking my mom for granted and her putting on a brave face. After years of doing so, I think she just was running on empty. She didn't have much to give, as she had to put her energy into acting happy when I knew she wasn't.

They separated when the last of the kids left for college. Probably within a month of me leaving. But they ended up getting back together.

After my mom died, I found letters and notes she had saved. They were notes to my dad about how she needed his love and support and didn't get it. There's was a list of household belongings, two columns titled with each of their names.

I think of her often, and how much she sacrificed for us. I wish she had been happy, but she wasn't. I now find myself in a similar situation and wonder what advice she would give me if she could talk from above.
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#34 ·
I honestly get this. Instead of writing letters, I write on TAM. I have written many things/letters on my feelings that never made it here. I deleted many of them. The ones I have left I may print them out to save for later.

My FIL just passed away a few weeks ago. He was in ICU about 10 days before he had a stroke and they took him off life support. During that time leading up to that, my wife never shed a tear. When he passed away, no tears, and since that time, no tears. It's not that she didn't cry, it's that her attitude the last month hasn't changed at all. No emotions at all. It's like nothing has happened.

Over the last few years, I went through all my changes. I went from doing most everything to "earn" her love. I did the same when I was young to "earn " my mother's love. Nothing I did made a difference with my mother and nothing I did made a difference with my wife. When I stopped doing, my wife never skipped a beat.

This is and never was about the sex or the lack of sex. I just needed the affection. Neither one of us grew up with affectionate parents. I see that now. My wife seems to think it's normal. I know different.

23 years ago, I found a woman who stayed with me after all by baggage was revealed. It took a very long time to realize that my wife was just as messed up as me. She is just better at hiding it and unwilling to fix anything.

You mention a list! The only thing on my list is my daughter. My wife is the one who wanted all the stuff. She can have it all. I gave her all that she wanted. In return, she gave me an amazing daughter, one who gets smothered with my hugs.
 
#39 ·
IMO, happy, healthy kids develop when the parents are happy and healthy in their marriage. The next best scenario is when the parents are happy and healthy - and divorced, perhaps with someone else who can provide the role model of a happy and healthy relationship. After that - sometimes - an unhappily married couple can keep it together to parent well, but I think that distorts the role model of marriage for their children. They will think a poor marriage is normal, and may well repeat those mistakes in their future relationships.

Of course, it's a little more complicated than that with other factors weighing in. Even worse for children is growing up in poverty, as that can limit their options even more than a "broken" home. So if splitting up - even if the parents are happier and can be good parents - leads to poverty (not just financial limitations), then perhaps it may be better to sacrifice for the children.
 
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#40 ·
IMO, happy, healthy kids develop when the parents are happy and healthy in their marriage. The next best scenario is when the parents are happy and healthy - and divorced, perhaps with someone else who can provide the role model of a happy and healthy relationship. After that - sometimes - an unhappily married couple can keep it together to parent well, but I think that distorts the role model of marriage for their children. They will think a poor marriage is normal, and may well repeat those mistakes in their future relationships.
Very well said. Children will respond better in situations where the parents are divorced but happy, can get along and be civil, you know. But if they are unhappy in the home and it shows, tension can arise and the child can be unhappy as well and have low expectations of love and marriage.
 
#46 ·
I think this is one of those 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' situations.

I for one hate it when I read comments like 'Its better for your child to see you happy'. No. It is best for a child to see commitment from their both of their parents to making the family happy.

Obviously you cannot force your partner to put in effort and you cannot keep a marriage together alone, but please don't be flippant about the effect a broken family has on a child.

Every one of my friends who come from divorced parents show the lasting effects to this day. Whether it's the partners they choose, the way they handle conflict or their reaction to big life changes. Im not saying that families who stay together are always the best examples either, but even though my parents have been to hell and back over the years what they have taught me is that family doesn't give up on each other. Family works it out. Family is the most important thing. Those are the lessons that I have taken forward into my family.
 
#50 ·
I've been on TAM for 4 years now. Our marriage was messed up way before that. I have driven myself crazy trying to improve the dynamics of our relationship. Nothing worked. Each new book, each new change, never brought about the desired response, which made me more frustrated. My wife had zero respose at all. I felt like an immature child who does stupid **** to get the parents attention who ignored them. My wife doesn't seem like she has any real emotions. My FIL passed away several weeks ago and she didn't even shed a tear. Nothing!

I hate the things I have done and I don't like the cold person I have become. There is no way to go back though. How do we move forward?

How can I love somebody so much and hate them at the same time? I think my wife loves me more than an has ever loved anybody. Over the years, she has never expected me to be anything. I came with lots of baggage too. She was there during many hard times in my life. I don't want to throw all that away because she doesn't like sex, never did, and probably never will. How can such a small part of a marriage cause so much frustration?

Is happiness just a decision? If I can just make a decision to be happy around my wife. It's hard to want to give affection knowing that it may never lead to sex. I've spent many years believing that friendship/companionship was the most important part in a marriage. I just surpressed the sex part. Sex was just the frosting and not necessary.

I am just tired of the games and tired of the "tricks". For now, I think it's in the best interest of our daughter if we stay together. I am definitely not the martyr. Just really skrewed up at the moment. I'll get it together soon.

Thanks everybody for all the advise over the years, even for the idiot threads that I deleted. I wish it was just as easy to delete the stupid **** I have done.
 
#49 · (Edited)
TAM isn't necessarily pro staying in an unhappy marriage. It's more accurate to say that TAM is somewhat selective about it.....just look at any thread where a guy isn't getting sex. Heck, if he's not getting sufficiently exciting sex he's told to divorce. Kids don't factor into that one.

I think life is too short to be miserable, but you do owe it to your kids to at least understand why you're miserable and to make every effort to deal with it. If you've done that consider the example you show your kids.
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