32+ years coming to an end - Page 4 - Talk About Marriage
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post #46 of 100 (permalink) Old 01-16-2017, 05:23 AM Thread Starter
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Re: 32+ years coming to an end

JSMART-
I am sorry you think he got a stand in because of my dereliction to duty. Went went to therapy together and he refused to address anything, refused to barely speak and continues to do so. I have stood on my head backwards to make things right and would have continued to do so. It can't be one sided. Yes I agree I took away my love along time ago but how long do you continue to give of yourself before you give up and there is nothing left to give. Sex between a couple is important but without any true connection and feeling its just sex and you can get that anywhere, its not what I want.
He made it perfectly clear upon returning from his last trip, after meeting his "friend", that there was no chance left. How am I supposed to get passed that? I tried, I apologized, I opened my heart and mind and thought we made some headway but he refuses to open up and let it out so I can't go on by myself.
Yes the history and the what could be or should be is incredibly hard to give up but it isn't a reason to stay and things not change.

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post #47 of 100 (permalink) Old 01-16-2017, 05:33 AM Thread Starter
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Re: 32+ years coming to an end

AVR1962-We share such similar circumstances, sadly. But I agree with you, I didn't move out of our bedroom the last two plus years, we still slept next to each other until he went on his one of many trips and came back wrapped in an EA, that was the straw.
Our daughter is a recovering alcoholic and she is well aware he is one too but no one can make him see he has or ever had an issue with drinking. It just isn't enough to know you have memory lapses for many years, things you have no idea to be sorry for because you don't remember, pieces that are missing and never to be found. He still thinks he has no problem even though its not near what it was years ago but its his go to coping mechanism.
You are right, many years of embarrassing and shameful actions, many years of hurt and anger of what he did drinking, many nights of his stupor and incessant mournful depressive speeches, on auto repeat. My kids say today they wish he would have hit them and got it over because the hours of him repeating his sad stories and emotional outburst when drinking were horrendous and they haven't forgotten it.
Other women, yep, I think he needed the attention, see poor pitiful me, my wife no longer loves me, we don't have sex, she is cold. Also, Hmm-do I still have that charming side to pick up other women, yes and I will prove to her I can replace her rather quickly. Lastly, its easier to get someone new, they have no clue who you are other than what you present you are and don't know your history.
I am still torn, I thought I had this all settled and figured out. I still love him but am realizing slowly he can't be what I need nor want and even saying that is painful.
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post #48 of 100 (permalink) Old 01-16-2017, 05:45 AM
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Re: 32+ years coming to an end

Funny, then you were a novelty for him but once that wore off, he detached mentally and emotionally from you. After a while, he wanted only a vagina, someone to support him while pushing you into the background instead of standing besides him and plus his alcohol issues made a relationship impossible.

Forget Jsmart, he thinks your husband cares about you the person, and he may at one point, but clearly that is no longer the case.

Jsmart blames you for your detachment from someone who wanted you for what you provide, someone that did not want to work on the relationship, someone that walled you off emotionally destroying the connection you had with him through his own volition. You erected barriers after years of pain, neglect and negligence and Jsmart expects you to simply just let another person use you as a blowup doll, hoping that he would want to reconnect which I am guessing did not work in the past.

Realistically, giving him sex would have accomplish nothing except devalue you as an object, not a person to connect with. You were in love with the past him and and the reality was that was a different him through the chemical high of the honeymoon phase. All of his issues starting manifesting itself over the years from his background of how he was raised, his service that has taken its toll. This new woman provides him an escape, something to feel that high.

LOL, and some posters state that sex is what connects them but to whom? If there is no communication, knowing of one another, then the other person just becomes a body as stimulus for lust.

Those two years was you protecting your self from decades of hurt and I am sure you did things that hurts him, but it sounds like a lot of his issues stem way before you came into that picture. IMHO, he got bored of you and when he needed to releive himself, you were a body to use. Clearly he has no compunction cheating on you in the past when things are good and things are bad MOSTLY THROUGH HIS OWN ACTION AND THEN BLAMES IT ON YOU FOR PROTECTING YOURSELF AGAINST THE PAIN THAT HE HAS IMPOSED ON YOU WHEN HE SHUTS YOU OUT.

Sex does not solve any issues when it comes to personal demons, it hooks you in longer and distorts clarity. In this case, it has devalued you over the years.

Ask yourself why you have placed yourself below him for so long, allowed another to treat you poorly. Clearly, he did not care enough about you from freeing you from this misery and could have divorced you but he did not. Even though it may have hurt you at the time, it would have been a kindness because he knew he could not give you the love you needed nor value you as a best friend, companion.

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post #49 of 100 (permalink) Old 01-16-2017, 06:13 AM Thread Starter
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Re: 32+ years coming to an end

Mr F, you put so much of what I know and feel into words. I am asking myself what is wrong with me that I tolerated things for so long, so much regret, why did I not leave years ago? I know I may get those answers eventually, maybe not. Hell I even ask him why he didn't leave long ago, he says because of the kids but they too would have been better off.
After this all really hit the proverbial fan in Jan this past year, he started working out, getting healthier, dropping weight, etc. I was too, trying to get healthier, stronger. We talked but barely, I pretty much shut him off. He lost about 25 lbs and one day I was sitting on the porch. Now keep in mind this is after so many conversations of my needs, his unwillingness to change, blah blah blah. He pulls up a chair and ask "can I ask you a favor?" I said ok. He said "can we have sex please, I lost this weight, my libido came back and I am really suffering!" I was in shock, didn't know whether to laugh, cry, scream. So here we are again really, I mean I told you not to touch me, you are a stranger, things are horrible, we have no connection and you ask me to have sex! I couldn't, wouldn't do it and still can't believe he asked me.
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post #50 of 100 (permalink) Old 01-16-2017, 06:35 AM
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Re: 32+ years coming to an end

Says more about him. Context is important. He would have never respected you if you gave in anyways, and only damage your self-worth and dignity.

Just keep improving yourself. No matter with whom he ends up with, he is the same guy, with the same programming and will end up shutting out others no matter whom he is with. There are issues that people bring and sometimes do not manifest themselves at the time so people get hooked into beleiving the one they fell in love with is the real them. There are issues brought on to other later on. You stated you were strong and indepedent as a youth, but to cope with your husband, you change to deal with your situation without realizing it. YThe process is slow so you probably did not notice, but he help mold yu along the way. His neglect proved you did not have that much value as action also communicate as well as words. Him asking you for sex because his pr1ck started working again, not because he wanted to have sex with someone he wants to know on an intimate level and express it.

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post #51 of 100 (permalink) Old 01-16-2017, 08:10 AM
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Re: 32+ years coming to an end

Your story is a good lesson for readers: you can't escape your parents/upbringing.

He married you to give his overbearing, unloving dad a big F you. But he still became his dad because that's all he ever saw. You became strong outwardly to counteract the abuse in your childhood, but your mental strength, your ability to value yourself, was missing, as it almost always is when you grow up being abused. So you stayed because you couldn't see that you had the right to matter more.
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post #52 of 100 (permalink) Old 01-16-2017, 08:46 AM
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Re: 32+ years coming to an end

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Originally Posted by sunshinesas View Post
AVR1962-We share such similar circumstances, sadly. But I agree with you, I didn't move out of our bedroom the last two plus years, we still slept next to each other until he went on his one of many trips and came back wrapped in an EA, that was the straw.
Our daughter is a recovering alcoholic and she is well aware he is one too but no one can make him see he has or ever had an issue with drinking. It just isn't enough to know you have memory lapses for many years, things you have no idea to be sorry for because you don't remember, pieces that are missing and never to be found. He still thinks he has no problem even though its not near what it was years ago but its his go to coping mechanism.
You are right, many years of embarrassing and shameful actions, many years of hurt and anger of what he did drinking, many nights of his stupor and incessant mournful depressive speeches, on auto repeat. My kids say today they wish he would have hit them and got it over because the hours of him repeating his sad stories and emotional outburst when drinking were horrendous and they haven't forgotten it.
Other women, yep, I think he needed the attention, see poor pitiful me, my wife no longer loves me, we don't have sex, she is cold. Also, Hmm-do I still have that charming side to pick up other women, yes and I will prove to her I can replace her rather quickly. Lastly, its easier to get someone new, they have no clue who you are other than what you present you are and don't know your history.
I am still torn, I thought I had this all settled and figured out. I still love him but am realizing slowly he can't be what I need nor want and even saying that is painful.
You are seeing the light lady!!! Don't hide from it any more.

I kept all of what I was dealing with away from my kids and I had no idea what they actually saw with their own eyes. My daughters are all adults now and two have been out of the house and on their own for several years now. My big concern when I finally decided to leave was how this would affect my daughters and how they would react to my news. All my children agreed that it was best to divorce. My youngest actually said, "It is about time." They saw without me saying a word to them. of course they don't know everything and they don't need to. This is their dad and they deserve to have a relationship with him.

As far as picking up women, you are absolutely right. They put their best foot forward, they blame us for not being interested in them but they are the ones ignoring us at home, not speaking to us days and weeks on end in retaliation (is the way I took it) for not "pleasing" him.

My ex used humor to find a way to get women to engage with him and when they would respond he would go back for more and pretty soon he had them going to lunch, and when "she" started talking about sex (his words) he called it off.....right!!!!! You know what all leads up to talking about sex? Geesh! Now, in his mid 50's, balding and 50 lbs overweight he still is using these same tactics on the ladies. I am sure some of the ladies in his building avoid him as the fat old lech that he is but I honestly believe there are women who are so desperate and seeking approval that eat the attention right up. I feel bad for these women. Don't be one of them Sunshine, you deserve better. You deserve happiness.
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post #53 of 100 (permalink) Old 01-16-2017, 09:10 AM
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Re: 32+ years coming to an end

I am sorry, I hadn't realized he had fully and unconditionally gave up, it sounds as he had quit himself a long time ago.

Even so, for your own self love, respect, and worth... remember we are the masters of our own walls.

Pain can fall to our feet when we learn how this affects so many other things.

Peace be with you.
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post #54 of 100 (permalink) Old 01-16-2017, 09:20 AM
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Re: 32+ years coming to an end

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Originally Posted by sunshinesas View Post
Mr F, you put so much of what I know and feel into words. I am asking myself what is wrong with me that I tolerated things for so long, so much regret, why did I not leave years ago? I know I may get those answers eventually, maybe not. Hell I even ask him why he didn't leave long ago, he says because of the kids but they too would have been better off.
After this all really hit the proverbial fan in Jan this past year, he started working out, getting healthier, dropping weight, etc. I was too, trying to get healthier, stronger. We talked but barely, I pretty much shut him off. He lost about 25 lbs and one day I was sitting on the porch. Now keep in mind this is after so many conversations of my needs, his unwillingness to change, blah blah blah. He pulls up a chair and ask "can I ask you a favor?" I said ok. He said "can we have sex please, I lost this weight, my libido came back and I am really suffering!" I was in shock, didn't know whether to laugh, cry, scream. So here we are again really, I mean I told you not to touch me, you are a stranger, things are horrible, we have no connection and you ask me to have sex! I couldn't, wouldn't do it and still can't believe he asked me.
Sunshine, I know your response was directed to Mr F but my fingers want to leap on the keyboard when I read your posts. It's my guess that you you had tried to address issues with your husband for years and felt unheard and when he kept pushing his desire for sex with you, you eventually felt that all you meant to him? An object, as the real intimacy (hand holding, sweet gestures, his interests in you) had long since left. So his goal to get you back in the sack floored you and you realized is focus and it made you feel even less loved by this man. I went thru all this myself and my ex's response was almost identical.

We had been going thru therapy and our counselor suggested that we make a list of 5 things that were priority for me in my relationship with my husband and I was then to give husband that list. I did, he looked it over and he did the same. On his list he said that I would start sleeping in his bed as man and wife, there would be no more counseling, he would read no more relationship books and I needed to accept him the way he was. I told the counselor that I could not just hop back in my husband's bed like nothing happened and bury my head in the sand. I told him, our counselor, (husband sitting right there) I had felt betrayed with all his shenanigans with other women. Our counselor agreed and told my husband there was no way that I could do this and not feel used because my emotional needs were not being met and he was not doing his part to make me feel loved and wanted by him for anything but sex. It was a male counselor and he came down pretty hard on my husband and told him that he had been emotionally unavailable to his first wife and the children from his first marriage and that was why he had no relationship with his sons and that was what lead to the divorce. he told my husband that I was ready to walk out the door for the very same reason. Did it change him? Did he say he was sorry? Did he try to make things better? No! He became mad at me because I could not do as he had wanted on his list. He did not speak to me for weeks after that.

Ask yourself why you stayed but don't be hard on yourself. We all have our reasons for staying in these dysfunctional situations. I think many times it goes back to our own childhood and how we were treated by pour parents growing up. I know that was the case for me. I married my mother....alcoholic who could not be pleased and was emotionally unavailable. My heart had hardened towards her treatment of me and I became pretty independent but I sought that love I wanted from her from people just like her. We tend to seek what we are familiar to in our family of origin. Getting to the root of that and getting past the hurt makes a big difference in how you relate to others. I was finally able to forgive my mom and that did not mean running back to her, that meant no longer needing her love or approval. When I did that I was able to finally let go of my husband. For the first time I felt like I was stepping into my own life.

You can do this!!!!
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post #55 of 100 (permalink) Old 01-16-2017, 03:35 PM
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Re: 32+ years coming to an end

I am going to step into the fire here I'm sure, but I've thought about this thread all morning.

Before I get beat up, I am not excusing any behavior that damages self and undermines the relationship, but there is always information that eases in that when a whole picture made, the corners get rounded out and if somebody struggling with far fewer years can glean even a snippet of wealth from a thread, it is worth the time to post.

AVR1962, you know I am one of your supporters as you worked through your own trials... and you know of my path as well.

Such said, when sunshineas shared that her son was ADHD diagnosed, that does place a different view to it whether one likes to see it or not. I'll not pose to know such a large picture in a thread, there is only a snapshot from the last three challenging decades, and while it may be perceived as unfair or ill-received, looking at the hows and why of relationship struggles, both from several views, one has to wonder how it plays into the overall and thus the healing to come.

Alcohol and cheating are destructive crutches no matter which partner has ADD/ADHD, thankfully they never played a part in my current marriage but in review of my past recognize that with compassion and empathy lost, was doubling down on what I knew best and lost myself to transferring the only tools I had at the time, which created a very unhappy and angry individual (myself), and made life miserable for others.

My wife is ADD/ADHD, my daughter severe with some BPD and depression, and from the stories my wife's brothers share... their mother and my mother-in-law probably more like my daughter. When my daughter struggled, my wife's surfaced and it was twice the battle to maintain sanity in the worst way... we were both where you are at 32 years at 16, and something had to change and I had created a codependent disaster, but it wasn't going to easily be the others to change, I could not control such. I compensated with walls, then learned to tear them down to stand open, with full clarity and unafraid...perhaps that is why I mention them so much.

So if I may ask @sunshineas, is there a possibility you or your husband have struggled with this? Since many studies mark as high as 90% of all ADD/ADHD comes from one or both parents, has this played an unrecognized and debilitating factor in your relationship? It doesn't sound like understanding will stop the ending you face, but the important thing is that you need to trust yourself that you have survived a lot, and you will survive this, do not discount what may be the necessary elephant in the challenge you faced to help you land at the peace you deserve.

If you find my words too lofty and not fitting to this situation, I understand... but living in an ADD/ADHD household for an angry and reactive 70% of my marriage and having many years experience since learning to respond differently has opened so many healthier options.

Please remember to practice mindful loving-kindness as you finalize this part of your life, it makes great practice as you step forward on the new path.


Last edited by Emerging Buddhist; 01-16-2017 at 07:54 PM. Reason: Mindful mention...
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post #56 of 100 (permalink) Old 01-16-2017, 06:13 PM Thread Starter
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Re: 32+ years coming to an end

EB I am not offended but even though we went through the whole ADHD diagnosis, drugs, therapy, etc I took him off everything when he was 5 1/2 and taught him new ways. He had a high IQ and was terribly bored and if I had to go back and do it again, I would have waited to start him in pre-k. This was a bitter fight in our marriage and almost caused a divorce at the time. I refused to give up on my son and I believed in him and he has done well. I don't know I am ADHD, very detailed oriented. I may be a bit OCD though lol. Husband, no idea, never really noticed that it could be an issue? Sorry not much help on this one.
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post #57 of 100 (permalink) Old 01-16-2017, 06:23 PM
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Re: 32+ years coming to an end

Then I am honored you took the time to read, thank you.
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post #58 of 100 (permalink) Old 01-16-2017, 08:05 PM
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Re: 32+ years coming to an end

Hi,
Sorry to hear that... You are entitled to half his pension, part of his social security, half of all the marital assets, cash, and 1/2 of the home and if each of you own a car, you get one car. Get a lawyer, a credit card in your name if you don't have one. You may get maintenance if you have to take courses for increasing your job skills. Get an attorney. Photocopy anything and everything.

I am going through a divorce. My wife owns the home with my name not on the title, mortgage, deed what have you. She has a IMRF pension to be paid out in three years. One car in my name, one car in both of our names. and for the last ten years I had been paying for Federal taxes for her because she chose not to pay the IRS. So she would not pay the IRS so i had to take extra Fed taxes and pay them for her out of my check.

We were talking about we using the same lawyer and be amicable, get done cheeply. I told her what I wanted She got very angry that she only makes $28K and I have the potential to make $40K. She thinks I can make more, but I doubt it. I am not employable as a healthcare manager at $80K. I am so industry specific. Anyway... She is angry at me, all i know if things were reversed she would do the same...

I am requesting that I:
1. I Keep the Subaru titled in both our names. 2. She keeps the Ford that is only in my name and attempts to get a loan to make sure I get the Subaru. 3. I get 1/3 of furniture and cooking,dishes stuff, 4. I get $13K of our equity in the home, and somehow, 5. I get a portion of her IMRF teacher pension. Amd the usally split bed sets and furniture etc.

She is angry, I told her I can request this, but doesn't mean I will get it. My lawyer advice 1/2 hour consultation for $25.00 told me this. She is pissed that she doesn't make enough money for living in Chicago and its suburbs. Neither can I, but somehow I can make it work.

It is up to the judge to decide. I could get the Subaru, or the judge will decide who gets the Ford or Subaru. the judge will decide whether I get a portion of her pension. As for a house that she purchased six months before we married in her name. It is 50/50 if I get $13K of the house equity; however if a spouse who is not on the title and or the mortgage could get their share of the equity of the home due to this, The spouse put sweat equity in doing a few repairs, doing yard work and cleaning regularly, plus if both parties co-mingled funds together that paid the mortgage you should be entitled to some equity. It is called transmutation of assets. For Sh*t's and giggles, I am requesting to potentially get reimbursed for paying her Fed taxes from my pay check. The Fed tax reimbursent may be a crap shoot.

All I can do if we use the same lawyer and we can discuss this and come to an agreement, or I refute the distribution that her lawyer disagrees with of what I want. I will have to pay a lawyer for advice to learn how to get what I want or tell me if this is feasible. Her lawyer could tell me something true or untruthful which I will need to verify. I don't have money for a lawyer so I need to do it my self.

What do you think of my wife getting $3K for the divorce from her daughter, her son, her son's live in girlfriend, and three brothers. Each has to chip in $500.00. That I think is o.k. None of my business, but I do know by her accepting the money, she is setting up the preponderance if she regrets the decision, she will know that her entire family got involved in a serious matter by invoking themselves in another's marriage. In my book that is taboo just like cheating, beating up a child, a pet, and spouse beating. You don't have family to help pay, or give advice, or take sides. Very taboo. If you can't afford it, you save the money... No handouts ever. AM I BEING TOO STRICT IN THIS THINKING?


A final note, If you think it's over, or counseling will not work o.k. move on. If it is completely dead all the prayer, counseling, or romance plus flowers will not bring that loving feeling back. I had a rough ten years with my wife. When I woke up one morning feeling naked and ashamed being emotionally intimately close with her I knew it was over. Just picture how Adam and Eve felt between each other and before got by eating that apple. The feeling as being one (in sync) with each other, the Lord, and the land, then losing it. That is how I felt. It can't be fixed. Sad in away.

Good luck, There is growth and opportunity. If you are lower to mid-fifties you have a lot of hot, hot, loving times, relationships to have, even fall in love again.. be optimistic. Be with friends, volunteer, exercise, and take care of yourself, do something for yourself you have been wanting to do and cross it off the bucket list. Mine is to visit Paris and live a few months there and even hang out in Provence France. Will I get there,? I hope...
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post #59 of 100 (permalink) Old 01-17-2017, 08:08 PM Thread Starter
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Re: 32+ years coming to an end

I meet my lawyer tomorrow, he had met with the one I had an appt with today so I can't see him. We got through lots of paperwork about the financial side yesterday but something happened tonight. We got into a heated argument and he lost his cool, threatened me and said he wanted to punch me in the face. I didn't back down but now feeling a bit uneasy. I texted him and all he seemed to be worried about is me telling the kids, something else for them to hate him for he thinks. He has only ever been that raging angry once in our marriage, years ago. He told me to leave, I irritate him, I am a b****, I am crazy, I ruined his life, on and on, I never backed down and my poor niece got in between us. Something other than what we argued about set this off; loss, loss of control over everything I don't know what. I fear if he had hit me it probably wouldn't have ended well, for either of us. He acted fairly calm today but seemed bothered underneath, something was lurking. He keeps acting like his life is over and if the kids know this he will have nothing. I told him they love him, maybe upset or pissed but they love him. I thought he was in a better place than I am but evidently not. Sadly he pays a therapist, maybe he should actually talk to her for a change? I am glad my son wasn't here, 6ft 4in, 300 lbs he would have probably took his dad down or tried. Maybe I should have called the cops and had him removed for a day or two but I fear his wrath may be worse. I will speed this divorce with the lawyer tomorrow, this is going somewhere I never expected it to.
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post #60 of 100 (permalink) Old 01-17-2017, 10:09 PM
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Re: 32+ years coming to an end

Quote:
Originally Posted by sunshinesas View Post
I meet my lawyer tomorrow, he had met with the one I had an appt with today so I can't see him. We got through lots of paperwork about the financial side yesterday but something happened tonight. We got into a heated argument and he lost his cool, threatened me and said he wanted to punch me in the face. I didn't back down but now feeling a bit uneasy. I texted him and all he seemed to be worried about is me telling the kids, something else for them to hate him for he thinks. He has only ever been that raging angry once in our marriage, years ago. He told me to leave, I irritate him, I am a b****, I am crazy, I ruined his life, on and on, I never backed down and my poor niece got in between us. Something other than what we argued about set this off; loss, loss of control over everything I don't know what. I fear if he had hit me it probably wouldn't have ended well, for either of us. He acted fairly calm today but seemed bothered underneath, something was lurking. He keeps acting like his life is over and if the kids know this he will have nothing. I told him they love him, maybe upset or pissed but they love him. I thought he was in a better place than I am but evidently not. Sadly he pays a therapist, maybe he should actually talk to her for a change? I am glad my son wasn't here, 6ft 4in, 300 lbs he would have probably took his dad down or tried. Maybe I should have called the cops and had him removed for a day or two but I fear his wrath may be worse. I will speed this divorce with the lawyer tomorrow, this is going somewhere I never expected it to.
Sunshine, you have to think of your safety. His future with his children obviously feels threatened. Let him know that you will do nothing to keep him from his children and that you both have a right to have a relationship with them. tell him that you do not want either of you to talk to your children about the spouse. Keep you word and hopefully he will keep his.

Is it wise to be living under the same roof at this time? Is this something you can talk to your husband about? Could either one of you stay some other place temporarily to things are settled?
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