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post #61 of 100 (permalink) Old 01-18-2017, 02:44 PM
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Re: 32+ years coming to an end

As the D comes close to happening, it's becoming real. He realizes he's fvcked up and the kids will blame him for the destruction of the family.

He'll be irrational over you. He's furious because despite all of his grievances, no sex for 2 years and a wife that emasculates him, he knows his world is about to crumble and that he had a huge role in the cause.

He can't verbalize it because pride and hurt but he knows he's about to lose the love of his life and he's powerless to stop it or control how it plays out.

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post #62 of 100 (permalink) Old 01-18-2017, 03:08 PM
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Re: 32+ years coming to an end

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He can't verbalize it because pride and hurt but he knows he's about to lose the love of his life and he's powerless to stop it or control how it plays out.
Sorry, but if she really is the love of his life, he would have put a real effort into working on the marriage. It does not sound like he did, from what has been laid out here.

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post #63 of 100 (permalink) Old 01-18-2017, 08:34 PM
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Re: 32+ years coming to an end

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Sorry, but if she really is the love of his life, he would have put a real effort into working on the marriage. It does not sound like he did, from what has been laid out here.
And might I add, he still has the opportunity (every day in this process) to go to OP, apologize, tell her how he wants the marriage and how he has loved her and is willing to work out their differences.
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post #64 of 100 (permalink) Old 01-18-2017, 09:13 PM
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Re: 32+ years coming to an end

You state that he lost a lot weight and hit the gym. Is it correct to assume that during that period he also cut back on the drinking?

If so, he was doing at least one key thing that he knows is important to you and important to the health of the marriage. And when he asks, you still say no to sex.

This fits into his narrative of the marriage as you as the sexual refuser, and probably to his view of you as the endlessly refusing wife being a big source of both the marital strife and part of the reason he drinks.

So of course now that he's tried self improvement and focusing on bettering himself, and told you how important it was to him, and you still refused sex, he's very, very angry.

If less booze was part of his health and fitness push, then he tried making a big positive step and meeting one of your key needs, and tried bluntly communicating his needs, and you still said no. In his mind you're still just not willing to do what it takes for the marriage, so of course he's done.
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post #65 of 100 (permalink) Old 01-19-2017, 08:02 AM
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Re: 32+ years coming to an end

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You state that he lost a lot weight and hit the gym. Is it correct to assume that during that period he also cut back on the drinking?

If so, he was doing at least one key thing that he knows is important to you and important to the health of the marriage. And when he asks, you still say no to sex.

This fits into his narrative of the marriage as you as the sexual refuser, and probably to his view of you as the endlessly refusing wife being a big source of both the marital strife and part of the reason he drinks.

So of course now that he's tried self improvement and focusing on bettering himself, and told you how important it was to him, and you still refused sex, he's very, very angry.

If less booze was part of his health and fitness push, then he tried making a big positive step and meeting one of your key needs, and tried bluntly communicating his needs, and you still said no. In his mind you're still just not willing to do what it takes for the marriage, so of course he's done.
There is another way to look at this....I do see what you are saying MartinBeck. Could it be that the relationship in the beginning was full of sexual activity and perhaps as young people maybe their relationship was sexually based as often times is the case with young couples. Children and work come along and OP and husband's hormones settle into this state of where they both were before they met, with his being 10x greater than hers which is biologically what is predictable. Husband still wants the sex they experienced before marriage or as newlyweds but OP would like a bit more concentration on family and their relationship beyond sex which again I think is common for both parties. Arguments may have even occurred on this very subject. OP is telling her husband that she needs ______ (maybe his help with the kids or around the house), she feels overwhelmed with the duties as mom trying to balance a career and simply put sex is not #1 on her priority list. I think for a majority of women this is a no-brainer. I would be willing to guess that OP pleased her husband many many times when she was timed, overwhelmed or sick to keep him happy which is also common for women.

Life in the military settles into OP's husband boozing it up with his buddies which I personally have witnessed time and again with the military men especially (part of a military family myself for 27 years) and OP does not like the ugly behavior she sees and she complains about his drinking, maybe she tries to limit it, maybe she walks away but she still doesn't like it. They already have distance from years of other issues which happens in marriage. OP's husband is unwilling to talk about the problems so there is no resolve and OP is not happy because of the years of unresolved issues. Her husband on the other hand is living life like there is no issues because he really never took her serious in the first place or did not see her complaints as his. Communication has broke down and the marriage is slowly deteriorating. he wants sex, she wants the husband she once loved back. The man that used to touch her without it being sexual....hugs and hand holding, and being told she was loved. She wants her husband to be an active father and take responsibility with with rather than being a passive, almost non-existent role in their lives.

He finally realizes he had better change something or she is going to walk. Rather than having a talk with her and telling her, "I know I have let myself go.....I have been drinking too much, I have been lazy and I can see why you have not been attracted to me. I would really like to put on marriage back on track. What can we do as a couple to make this work?" he opted to go to the gym which she might have been thankful for but wondering at the same time what the heck his sudden interest in the gym is all about and perhaps even suspicious that he had ulterior motives (like women seeking). Maybe he did try to cut back on the booze but in all the years together she has seen it before and she knows it won't last she she is just kind of coasting along kind of watching to see what is going to happen with all this. Then he pops out with the statement about losing weight and wants sex. Of course she is going to be befrazzled. These thoughts were not in her head. There were no issues that were resolved in the process.

A wife that is hurt does not just start sleeping in the spare room, nor does she just stop having sex with her husband for no reason. There was trouble in the marriage before these things ever happened. She was unheard, what she tried to do to accept, forgive, fix, please, or resolve the issues were met with deaf ears. She becomes stuck between a rock and a hard place emotionally and she feels like she wants to keep the family together but her needs are not being met by her husband. She is questioning whether she wants to stay, she realizes the man she once knew is no longer the man she is married to. She has spent so much of her time and energy in raising her children and meeting everyone else's needs that she doesn't even know who she is anymore, and more than likely something that had been expressed to her husband.

OP's brain is still tracking on sex and what he needs to fulfill his sexual desires, priority #1 in his life besides keeping a job to provide a roof over the family. OP is disgusted and feels all he wants of her is sex. She can't give to him anymore because that is all she feels she is to him anymore and maybe as she starts reflecting she feels that maybe that's all she ever was to him. Once a wife feels this I do not think there is any way to go back, especially if there has been any kind of infidelity, porn addiction and husband seeking the attention of other women. She will see that focus and separate herself emotionally from him to save herself. She might not even real what she is going thru. She just knows she can't be with him.

As far the drinking....no one was making OP's husband drink. He made his choices. It is his responsibility to find his way out of his own addiction.
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post #66 of 100 (permalink) Old 01-19-2017, 09:57 AM
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Re: 32+ years coming to an end

Oh, I don't disagree! I'm sure that your picture of the marriage has a lot of truth, although as always we only have the OP and not the spouse. I'm sure both partners would say that they were repeatedly and chronically not prioritized.
I'm not familiar with the military party culture she's described, but I have seen a lot of corporate sales organizations that have a frat-like drinking and hookup culture. It gets weird in your late thirties and sad in your forties and is totally incompatible with family responsibilities.
He clearly did not support her and meet basic expectations of fatherhood and sobriety. And yah, nobody wants to sleep with a sloppy overweight chronic drunk.

Although I'm sure if he were here he'd have complaints about her disappearing into the black hole of self-inflicted Mommy Martyrdom and not making an effort at things important to him, sex and otherwise.

But all that set the stage - now it's the brink, or maybe past the brink. My point is that her refusal after he made an effort at both action and communication was an escalation on her part. It explains his lack of interest in reconciliation. If she wants to hold out any hope of continuing in the marriage, then bluntly she needs to blow him on the reg. While of course insisting that he uphold standards and expectations of behavior and while she bluntly insists that her key needs also be met!!!

Cutting him off is an escalation move and is a strong signal to him to move on and end it - just like if he (say) stopped depositing his paycheck and cut her off financially. You don't do that until you're done.

If she just truly can't bring herself to have sex with him, then she needs to come to the sad understanding that the relationship is really over and she cannot be married to him.
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post #67 of 100 (permalink) Old 01-19-2017, 10:43 AM
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Re: 32+ years coming to an end

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Oh, I don't disagree! I'm sure that your picture of the marriage has a lot of truth, although as always we only have the OP and not the spouse. I'm sure both partners would say that they were repeatedly and chronically not prioritized.
I'm not familiar with the military party culture she's described, but I have seen a lot of corporate sales organizations that have a frat-like drinking and hookup culture. It gets weird in your late thirties and sad in your forties and is totally incompatible with family responsibilities.
He clearly did not support her and meet basic expectations of fatherhood and sobriety. And yah, nobody wants to sleep with a sloppy overweight chronic drunk.

Although I'm sure if he were here he'd have complaints about her disappearing into the black hole of self-inflicted Mommy Martyrdom and not making an effort at things important to him, sex and otherwise.

But all that set the stage - now it's the brink, or maybe past the brink. My point is that her refusal after he made an effort at both action and communication was an escalation on her part. It explains his lack of interest in reconciliation. If she wants to hold out any hope of continuing in the marriage, then bluntly she needs to blow him on the reg. While of course insisting that he uphold standards and expectations of behavior and while she bluntly insists that her key needs also be met!!!

Cutting him off is an escalation move and is a strong signal to him to move on and end it - just like if he (say) stopped depositing his paycheck and cut her off financially. You don't do that until you're done.

If she just truly can't bring herself to have sex with him, then she needs to come to the sad understanding that the relationship is really over and she cannot be married to him.


I disagree. I don't think its escalation but rather disengagement. Very different. Escalation is manipulation and reaction to someone else - it's about the other. Disengagement is withdrawing into self - it's about focusing on your own wellness.

TAM members routinely advise disengagement to protect oneself - the 180 - in situations of abuse and infidelity.

If there is any impact on the other it is to draw them in to better understand your unmet needs and cause them to think about why you are disengaging (but this should not be the intent of the 180 or you're back to manipulation)


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post #68 of 100 (permalink) Old 01-19-2017, 03:25 PM
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Re: 32+ years coming to an end

Hmm. Disengagement / "180" is a short-term escalation tactic to prepare yourself mentally and emotionally for the divorce and to potentially shock the offending parter/spouse into waking up about the critical urgency of the unmet needs.

Disengaging for years is both incredibly cruel to the spouse and a sign of lack of willingness to get out of their comfort zone to actually pull the trigger and divorce. You can't be disengaged and simultaneously hoping for reconciliation for 2+ years and expect a magic turnaround in outcome.

In OP's case, the husband sounds like a terrible guy, but the OP needs to acknowledge that her historical role as sexual refuser is not compatible with her stated desire for reconciliation.
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post #69 of 100 (permalink) Old 01-19-2017, 07:51 PM
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Re: 32+ years coming to an end

I guess it may be that the sexes see OP's issue from different perspective. Only hearing her side, I can see that her husband has had many issues that caused OP to become resentful for many years. That resentment led to her emotionally abandoning her husband.

As a man, I find OP's withholding of sex for not only 2 years but the way she wielded it throughout the marriage to get her husband to submit to her as something that drove a high drive man to numb himself from the pain with the bottle.

As a traditional male, her husband didn't do well with constantly being emasculated by a wife that wanted to wear the pants. Top it off with him being high drive and her using sex as a weapon, you end up with a man that resorts to destructive outlets.

Many posters here want to minimize OPs role in the demise of the marriage. There is no doubt that her husband fvcked up over and over but we have realize that actions cause reactions. Sometimes we have be accountable for not only our actions but also the reaction we get .

Now they're both at the end of the road and despite hurting each so deeply, they both regret that their at this point.
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post #70 of 100 (permalink) Old 01-19-2017, 08:01 PM
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Re: 32+ years coming to an end

I guess it is all speculation without having them both here, just as it is in most of the posts here on TAM. I just wonder how much of Op's husband's behavior was already in place before she ever met him and how many red flags she passed up while dating him?

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post #71 of 100 (permalink) Old 01-19-2017, 09:56 PM
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Re: 32+ years coming to an end

In the beginning of a relationship we over look red flags because our brains are over dosing on the chemicals our brains release with new "love." With her husband being more traditionalist and she being more of a modern "strong" woman, the fireworks that these opposites created must have been amazing in the beginning.

I can't fully understand a woman's perspective but as a man, can understand some of what may have drove her husband to become destructive. I've dated a modern, hear me roar, girl in my past. We argued and disagreed a lot. Most times it really pissed me off but there were times that I admired her spunkyness. One thing she never did was use her sexuality as a weapon to get me to bend to her will. Actually, the sex was intense and she had a soft side to her that made dealing with her ball busting all worth it.

I think that OP's husband got the emasculation but there was no balance of an affectionate wife that sexually rocks your world. So he self medicates by drinking and looked for affection anywhere he could get it.
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post #72 of 100 (permalink) Old 01-20-2017, 08:29 AM
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Re: 32+ years coming to an end

Hi UPDATE;

I am not sure what dollar amount you would get from your ex-spouse when they retire, but you have to check. If it is like anything like Social Security, if you re-marry you do not get to participate in it's distribution to him. Check with your legal adviser. All I know the women who are taking part of their ex-spouses railroad pension and Catapillar. The the once seeking to collect their fair share of the pension is void if they re-marry; therefore, the woman had told me that they will never, ever remarry for that reason, but doesn't mean they can't be in love and have all the other benefits. You just don't remarry.

If your ex-spouse takes early retirement at 62 or 65 or later, you can claim some of their Social Security, maybe take the higher amount to equal his or hers if yours is lower, from his benefit he paid in only if you never remarry. I don't know how much money you will get for sure, it depends, your benefit may be higher than theirs. If you do tag onto his Social Security at age 62 you can only make $15000 - $18000 a year, but after age 65 you can earn is as much money you want, no penalizing limit.

If a spouse only had their name on a premarital home, and had, or chose, or then refinanced after you re-married without you. You didn't and she didn't not put your name on the title and the mortgage, as co-owner or as co-borrower THREE things can happen. 1. The judge could say you have no claim no matter if the house lost or gained equity. You will not get a dime even though the co-mingled funds went to pay the mortgage. 2. The judge may force the sale if the stay at home spouse is too old, whatever that means, has no assets and no earning potential so that he or she can get educated to find a good job if young enough. If one is older and maybe around 60 or above, the judge may force liquidation of everything to split everything 50/50, or 60/40 it all depends. The judge will not make anyone less able to support themselves in the judges decision. We may not like the decision, but just think, how far would we go. Think about the parable about the bible guy who was stopped from sacrificing his new born to GOD, or the Egyptian king saying to a divorcing couple arguing about who want's the kid more and was about to cut the baby in half. 3. The judge can say you are entitled to some equity of the pre-marital property home because both of you commingled income to pay the mortgage and support the household, called transmutation which makes you a co-owner because you contributed financially. It depends on state law. My wife's lawyer and my legal adviser said it is a 50/50 chance. In Illinois some get it and some don't. I guess it is up to give prove that you helped provide.

I think if you have been married twice or more, never go into a commingled financial situation , never own property with anybody, and do not enter a marriage contract, a domestic partner contract again. It sucks not having cash to prevent oneself from not having food or not being able to pay for emergency lodging, no money to vacate if situation gets bad, and you have the slightest chance of becoming homeless. It can or will happen at least twice in you life. In addition, it sucks too if you get kicked out, divorced again and spend a lot of money for home furnishings again is rough. After your third divorce, the divorce don't hurt. This hurts" " I can't believe I got myself in this mess again, Sh*t, I got to start over, I got no assets, and then if you have to stay in the same house at the benevolence of who filed first, and they are the sole person on the title adds fire to the situation, You can't tell the off or why you are divorcing because either spouse don't care for your reason for the divorce. They are only going by their own frame of reference and it is very hard to keep you mouth shut. It is the usual, "Who cares what you think." We all want to tell the person how they wronged us so bad and we want be heard for once in the marriage, we try. If trying to be heard didn't work when you are married it will not work while you are divorcing. It is best to keep it to yourself and grow to be the person you love and to become lovable again. That is the thing that makes me the most angry no matter who is at fault.
Thanks for reading this novel.
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post #73 of 100 (permalink) Old 01-20-2017, 09:41 AM
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Re: 32+ years coming to an end

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I guess it may be that the sexes see OP's issue from different perspective. Only hearing her side, I can see that her husband has had many issues that caused OP to become resentful for many years. That resentment led to her emotionally abandoning her husband.

As a man, I find OP's withholding of sex for not only 2 years but the way she wielded it throughout the marriage to get her husband to submit to her as something that drove a high drive man to numb himself from the pain with the bottle.

As a traditional male, her husband didn't do well with constantly being emasculated by a wife that wanted to wear the pants. Top it off with him being high drive and her using sex as a weapon, you end up with a man that resorts to destructive outlets.

Many posters here want to minimize OPs role in the demise of the marriage. There is no doubt that her husband fvcked up over and over but we have realize that actions cause reactions. Sometimes we have be accountable for not only our actions but also the reaction we get .

Now they're both at the end of the road and despite hurting each so deeply, they both regret that their at this point.
You keep saying things like emasculation and sex as a weapon, but you fail to take into account that women don't 'turn on' sex typically for sex's sake; they have an emotional component that is necessary for almost every woman to even WANT to have sex, much less endure it from a man who's been hurting her. It's a very complex relationship. Things like assault and rape and shame and submitting and men being more aggressive and anger and manipulation and threats are often involved once the woman has retreated out of self-safety.

Men often rush to say 'just give it to him for God's sake! don't be such a b*tch!' when we could have just as often rushed to say 'treat her as well as you treated her when you were dating and she WOULD!'

Women don't choose to withdraw emotionally; they do it as their "Love Bucket" is depleted and filled with holes from all the Love Busters, so any love left in that bucket just flows out all of those holes. As she has described. So having sex with a person who hurts you is especially painful for a woman. Men, probably not so much, since they have the urge and the erection and just need to get it done.

She didn't just up and decide to withdraw.
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post #74 of 100 (permalink) Old 01-20-2017, 09:55 AM
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Re: 32+ years coming to an end

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Women don't choose to withdraw emotionally; they do it as their "Love Bucket" is depleted and filled with holes from all the Love Busters, so any love left in that bucket just flows out all of those holes. As she has described. So having sex with a person who hurts you is especially painful for a woman. Men, probably not so much, since they have the urge and the erection and just need to get it done.
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post #75 of 100 (permalink) Old 01-20-2017, 10:26 AM
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Re: 32+ years coming to an end

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You keep saying things like emasculation and sex as a weapon, but you fail to take into account that women don't 'turn on' sex typically for sex's sake; they have an emotional component that is necessary for almost every woman to even WANT to have sex, much less endure it from a man who's been hurting her. It's a very complex relationship. Things like assault and rape and shame and submitting and men being more aggressive and anger and manipulation and threats are often involved once the woman has retreated out of self-safety.

Men often rush to say 'just give it to him for God's sake! don't be such a b*tch!' when we could have just as often rushed to say 'treat her as well as you treated her when you were dating and she WOULD!'

Women don't choose to withdraw emotionally; they do it as their "Love Bucket" is depleted and filled with holes from all the Love Busters, so any love left in that bucket just flows out all of those holes. As she has described. So having sex with a person who hurts you is especially painful for a woman. Men, probably not so much, since they have the urge and the erection and just need to get it done.

She didn't just up and decide to withdraw.

I agree. Not like he wanted to connect to her and work through their issues. Giving him sex does not solve anything, only degrades the OP into a hole to fill for her H. Years of stone walling her, the therapist. Plus, we do not know if he is emasculated because he dains to stand up for herself and needs to work through their issues instead of just submitting to his whims. He thought she would stop having hher own opinions after marriage and her own voice afterall like his mother and turned into his own father which he has issues with. OH, and he threatened to punch her in the face, she gave up her career to support his, she forgave him the first infidelity and here he is, thinking rug sweeping his own faults and mostly sex will solve everything at one point. Nope, that requires communication and changes in thoughts and behavior.

I am suprise some just ignored his threats to do bodily harm to his supposed love one. I am sure she has her issues and she will need tow work on that, but lets not pretend that he does not devalue her either. LOL, his male ego and how she should handle that with TLC because he is male, when he so far does more to invalidate her as she has pushed for many years for him to work on himself and she is not worth that either. Is there a version of emasculate for females?

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