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post #76 of 100 (permalink) Old 01-20-2017, 11:56 AM
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Re: 32+ years coming to an end

Mental abuse.

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post #77 of 100 (permalink) Old 01-20-2017, 01:01 PM
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Re: 32+ years coming to an end

Let's not assume this is a male/female perspective thing.

I'm aligned with the women here because I see H as an abusive, alcoholic d-bag


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post #78 of 100 (permalink) Old 01-20-2017, 02:58 PM
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Re: 32+ years coming to an end

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In the beginning of a relationship we over look red flags because our brains are over dosing on the chemicals our brains release with new "love." With her husband being more traditionalist and she being more of a modern "strong" woman, the fireworks that these opposites created must have been amazing in the beginning.

I can't fully understand a woman's perspective but as a man, can understand some of what may have drove her husband to become destructive. I've dated a modern, hear me roar, girl in my past. We argued and disagreed a lot. Most times it really pissed me off but there were times that I admired her spunkyness. One thing she never did was use her sexuality as a weapon to get me to bend to her will. Actually, the sex was intense and she had a soft side to her that made dealing with her ball busting all worth it.

I think that OP's husband got the emasculation but there was no balance of an affectionate wife that sexually rocks your world. So he self medicates by drinking and looked for affection anywhere he could get it.
"Modern, hear me roar woman?" Sounds to me like you think women should be submissive to their husbands?

Personally I do not understand this kind of thinking. It's accepted that husbands will seek a lover because he was rejected by his wife? When a man and woman are dating if the girl tells the man she is seeing that she does not want sex that night, or wants to wait until marriage, it seems the men are more respectful of the women's wishes but once they say "I do" it seems to change the picture for many men. It is almost as if these men feel that their wife is their property to serve and to please them. Is that what you think a woman should be for her husband JSMART? Is that why the term "modern women" is said in a demeaning way? Are women not to have thoughts and feelings or be assertive in your opinion?

I have been married twice. My first husband was my high school sweetheart and we were constantly together, even worked together, always entwined in one another, truly in love. There was no lack of sex even as we had children. My husband was very sexual but he could show me affection aside from just sex, we could talk and we did in length. Not long into the marriage he wanted to start having 3-somes and swing which I was against and refused. We would have sex several times in one day. If, for whatever reason, 3 days would pass and I told him I was tired he would go into a rage and tell me he was going to go out looking for it some other place and would leave. I started just doing what he wanted to do, when he wanted to do it to keep him happy, no 3-somes or swinging though. In our 7th year of marriage I caught him in an affair and then found out that he had cheated on me our entire marriage. This was a man who could not be satisfied sexually. He was looking for notches on his belt to make him feel good about himself. His behavior tore up our marriage. He went on and did the same in his second marriage where he had more children and it tore up that marriage to. His second wife did allow 3-somes, it still did not keep him faithful.

My second marriage was to a military man who I was married to for 24 years. I saw the red flags in the beginning, we would talk and he always had an excuse and he placed a great deal of blame on his exwife and he had me convinced that she had issues. I supported him and his anger towards his ex. Some things were odd though, I would try to hold his hand and he dropped it. I told him I loved him and he told me he wasn't ready to say that but he also didn't want us to stop seeing each other. We'd go to a party with his military buddies and he'd leave me to socialize by himself. He invited me to functions and then when I would show up he had changed his plans without telling me. All the while I am addressing all these issues. The very first date we went to a restaurant and he was very flirty with the waitress and couldn't take his eyes off her. I told him that he might as well have asked her for her # and he said it was nothing. As things played out with me and I found more and more of things seeming odd I started asking more questions about his past and how he related to women as a teenager and in his marriage. He would not ask girls out for fear of rejection but instead would lust over them and become sick in his stomach when he saw them with another guy, yet he had not even spoke to the girl. He married his first wife because she was pg but was kissing on her girlfriends and trying to get them into conversation. He felt she should be at home with their kids, cooking and cleaning but was upset that she wasn't helping out with the bills. He would go out with the guys drinking without calling her. Very much into porn for a teenage boy and it was porn that he went to for sex. He was not relating to me sexually. It was me going to him a majority of the time and I was supposed to keep him happy and when I did not I got the silent treatment. These games played out for years all the while he was chasing other women. One day I finally woke up and realized all I was to this man was a sperm receptacle, cook, nanny and housekeeper. I am sure that he has told all his buddies I sure was not interested in having sex with him and wonders why even though I was very clear about my feelings and my needs in the marriage.

So I guess I don't understand the male brain that can justify this type of behavior and blame their wife. To me it seems that a spouse who can cheat on his wife (or vise versa) is not capable of love or compassion.

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post #79 of 100 (permalink) Old 01-20-2017, 06:00 PM
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Re: 32+ years coming to an end

My point is if she wants to divorce the guy, then she needs to pull the trigger and do it. If she wanted to reconcile, she needed to start having sex. If she can't bring herself to have sex with him she needs to realize that it's over.
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post #80 of 100 (permalink) Old 01-20-2017, 06:29 PM Thread Starter
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Re: 32+ years coming to an end

WOW. Not sure I can cover all these responses. EMASCULATE, the new male buzz word and if I have to hear it one more time I may toss my cookies. What is the female equivalent? If men think the little woman is here on this earth to satisfy their every need then they haven't evolved in the last 100 years. I will say again we are equally at fault for where we are today. I emotionally and physically disengaged over two years ago, I shut down completely. I could no longer deal with the hurt, anger and pain. This wasn't a news flash for him, we had the same discussion over and over, read the books, etc. I just couldn't (not sure I can now) get through to him that I wasn't just a walking vagina. He isn't a terrible man, he is a good man with some terrible issues. He never completely stopped drinking and probably won't. He didn't get fit to attract me, I started before him and he had some health issues and knew losing 25-30 lbs would help, it did. He was depressed many many years, especially in the fall/winter time and drinking was his go to medication (it made it worse). I never refused sex as a way to make him submit to anything, I refused because I had no connection; he was not good at affection, only sextion! He couldn't have or give a back rub/massage without a boner and once that happened that was the priority and that happened in about 3 minutes. Yes he is high drive and me maybe medium but really you can't learn to touch your wife affectionately without something in return. He had zero compassion for me and I never trusted him to be able to take care of me if I was ill, be it a day or a week (except when my son was born and he was awesome). I took care of him through multiple surgeries, illnesses, aches/pains, drunken puking stupors so shame on me for wanting him to maybe take care of me sometime huh? There were red flag but when your young your dumb and don't see them. And if he was anxious to have sex why is he still here waiting two and half years later? He could have went and got it anytime I am sure; he is still an attractive man and holds his own.
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post #81 of 100 (permalink) Old 01-20-2017, 06:32 PM Thread Starter
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Re: 32+ years coming to an end

MB-"My point is if she wants to divorce the guy, then she needs to pull the trigger and do it. If she wanted to reconcile, she needed to start having sex. If she can't bring herself to have sex with him she needs to realize that it's over."
So tell me why after over two years he didn't pull the trigger? Reconciliation will not start with sex, there needs to be a relationship and if it can't happen in that order its a mute point.
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post #82 of 100 (permalink) Old 01-20-2017, 10:45 PM
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32+ years coming to an end

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WOW. Not sure I can cover all these responses. EMASCULATE, the new male buzz word and if I have to hear it one more time I may toss my cookies. What is the female equivalent? If men think the little woman is here on this earth to satisfy their every need then they haven't evolved in the last 100 years. I will say again we are equally at fault for where we are today. I emotionally and physically disengaged over two years ago, I shut down completely. I could no longer deal with the hurt, anger and pain. This wasn't a news flash for him, we had the same discussion over and over, read the books, etc. I just couldn't (not sure I can now) get through to him that I wasn't just a walking vagina. He isn't a terrible man, he is a good man with some terrible issues. He never completely stopped drinking and probably won't. He didn't get fit to attract me, I started before him and he had some health issues and knew losing 25-30 lbs would help, it did. He was depressed many many years, especially in the fall/winter time and drinking was his go to medication (it made it worse). I never refused sex as a way to make him submit to anything, I refused because I had no connection; he was not good at affection, only sextion! He couldn't have or give a back rub/massage without a boner and once that happened that was the priority and that happened in about 3 minutes. Yes he is high drive and me maybe medium but really you can't learn to touch your wife affectionately without something in return. He had zero compassion for me and I never trusted him to be able to take care of me if I was ill, be it a day or a week (except when my son was born and he was awesome). I took care of him through multiple surgeries, illnesses, aches/pains, drunken puking stupors so shame on me for wanting him to maybe take care of me sometime huh? There were red flag but when your young your dumb and don't see them. And if he was anxious to have sex why is he still here waiting two and half years later? He could have went and got it anytime I am sure; he is still an attractive man and holds his own.


Hey chill - you're going to get all kinds of opinions and frankly a lot of people here get the scab pulled off with a simple word or phrase. The good part is you get a lot of viewpoints and maybe some is useful.

I've not experienced infidelity so am not triggered but I completely understand those who are.

I'll explicitly say I hear you and I've got nothing negative to say about your behavior except you are too forgiving and codependent to have seen clearly earlier. So take the good from the marriage, work through the bad and get someone who is more an equal next time.


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post #83 of 100 (permalink) Old 01-21-2017, 01:15 AM
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Re: 32+ years coming to an end

It sounds like both of you are dug in and entrenched in your positions. Since you're the 1/2 of the marriage that we can reach here, we can ask only you to consider making a change and making a different move that what you've been playing for the past two years. My suggestion is to try a sex event and see if it breaks the impasse and engenders further conversations and moves towards reconciliation. But if you can't, then you can't.
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post #84 of 100 (permalink) Old 01-23-2017, 05:24 PM Thread Starter
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Re: 32+ years coming to an end

I finalized the paperwork today, the lawyer will file tomorrow, two-three weeks for temp hearing. I wish I could say it was a relief, just another painful step in a path wrought with pain. Guess I can eventually move this thread to "separating/divorcing". Peace.
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post #85 of 100 (permalink) Old 01-23-2017, 05:25 PM Thread Starter
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Re: 32+ years coming to an end

MB Not sure how making a sex move would solve anything, I think at this point it would just be uncomfortable all around.

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post #86 of 100 (permalink) Old 01-23-2017, 08:07 PM
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Re: 32+ years coming to an end

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I finalized the paperwork today, the lawyer will file tomorrow, two-three weeks for temp hearing. I wish I could say it was a relief, just another painful step in a path wrought with pain. Guess I can eventually move this thread to "separating/divorcing". Peace.
Hang in there Sunshine! There will be adjusting to do after everything is said and done but you will free to live a life of your own and make the choices for yourself. It will be a time of positive growth for you. Surround yourself with only those who can support what you are doing, that includes mutual friends, friends on FaceBook, etc. You have to save your sanity so you might find you have to say good-bye to certain people who support him and that's okay.After so many years together,even though there will be relief when you finally walk away, there will be some emotionally untangling left. I went no contact with my ex, it's been not quite 6 months now.
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post #87 of 100 (permalink) Old 01-24-2017, 03:01 AM Thread Starter
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Re: 32+ years coming to an end

Thanks AVR I meet my therapist today, been a while. I am still so confused because I continue to feel if this marriage were dead (over two years now) and he can't be the husband I need and the partner I want why does it continue to hurt so much, shouldn't it be easy to walk away.
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post #88 of 100 (permalink) Old 01-24-2017, 07:56 AM
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Re: 32+ years coming to an end

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Thanks AVR I meet my therapist today, been a while. I am still so confused because I continue to feel if this marriage were dead (over two years now) and he can't be the husband I need and the partner I want why does it continue to hurt so much, shouldn't it be easy to walk away.
I sure do understand and that didn't leave the minute I walked out the door either. I realized that I was truly committed to this man and that I felt that I would be by his side thru thick and thin which I was. I endured a great deal thinking that as long as we could just keep it together that one day it would all work out but the violations to the marriage never stopped no matter how much we talked, how much counseling we had together. One of my counselors told me my husband was passive-aggressive so I read a book on PA, I showed him the book, talked, read thing to him, he read the book and he could identify with it and he did seek help....help for himself and joint counseling but he could not break free from his ways. 50+ years of living like he had if there was the slightest bit of anything that made him upset he reverted right back to his old ways. I saw there was no possibly way for change. He was not meeting my needs and I had felt lonely for years. I had a choice...I could either live like roommates with this man for the sake of having a roof over my head or I could get out and try to find a new life for myself. Right up until the day I left I continued to cook and try to engage him in conversation. We lived in the same house for 8 months from the time I contacted the attorney. We'd had many conversations about the relationship needing to be mutual but he could not give. I became more of an observer in that last 8 months. He had so much opportunity but he chose to plug himself into his electronics, go where ever as he wanted and he chose to ignore me which was typical and as he did this I reflected on a life I had spent raising 5 children while he pretty much did the very same thing. I was his caretaker and quite honestly I think the only reason we married was out of convenience on his part. He had sole custody of his two sons and I never saw that he actually wanted to raise his boys but I came along eager and willing. I was the one chasing him and making excuses for his actions, I supported his lies, I drove for him when he drank and I partied with him for a very long time. I was the one that changed. I opened my eyes to the truth. I felt such obligation to this man and I could not let go of that obligation, the reason I still cooked for him until I left. I did keep wishing that I would hear the words, "I messed up, I can see it now. I know I hurt you and I am sorry. I have been a terrible father and husband. I have a real problem with addiction and I can see why you wanted to leave me." Instead though I got nit-picking from him on every word of the divorce decree, him wanting it changed repeatedly which basically burned up all the money I paid towards attorney fees, and more. I hurt him so he sought revenge which is the dance we played our entire marriage.

The holidays were tough and now Valentine stuff is out in the stores and I think of the times I had my husband to share these occasions with but unfortunately my mind wants to recall the good times not the times when I searched for cards or a gift to buy for a man that I had no more love or trust for. We get used to our very strange living circumstances, we adjust even if it is not healthy. To finally walk out after so many years takes a great deal of strength.

My last counselor was awesome! Once she realized I was definitely not going back to my husband she told me that as I sat in her office the first time telling her what I had been thru in my marriage she said she wanted to tell me to run. I reflect on that day and how calm and detached I was as I told her about my marriage, it was almost like looking at someone else's life. I had become so numb to my own feelings. I was emotionally dead. I was diagnosed with PTSD which she helped me thru. She told me my husband was narcissistic and at the time I could not see it. Once I left I bought a very good book on narcissism and boy oh boy do I ever see it now. I realize too that he has no capability to treat another person any different. He is the perpetual victim and it was my rearing by a mother just like himself that allowed me to cater to such a selfish man who had no compassion for me. I am the type that who is very caring and compassionate and always willing to help others but there are many of people out that willing to abuse that generosity. Relationships have to be mutual in all ways, they have to be a working effort on both parts. My marriage never was.

Surround yourself with those who can support you. Read about narcissism and passive-aggressive behavior if you think it might fit, keep focus on you and what you need to be healthy and on your own. Don't mention anything to anyone that you feel would try to keep you from leaving, if that is what you want. Mutual friends are going to have some trouble with this and they will try to stand by you both but it is real hard to see pics of your STBX or your ex (future) in a pic with some "friend" that stood by your side to support you and you had no idea that they were in touch. I had to let some people go, blocked my ex on FaceBook, went no contact all to relieve my own stress and help me get on with my own life. I did not want reminders of my ex. My relationship with his family had been severed many years ago so that part was easy. We had truly lived very separate lives for a long time. It was just a matter of me letting go of the obligation (which I have done now) and I have to stop reminiscing of the good as it did turn very bad, and I had to realize this man was not capable of love which I very much needed, I realized too that I would never get validation or an apology as this man was not capable. In his eyes he was the victim because I could not make him happy. I had stopped supporting him, stopped chasing him. And since I left I have stopped wanted things to be different between us but it took awhile.

I now making new friends....I moved away....did not want the slightest chance of running into this man and I wanted to be closer to my daughters who are adults. Being with my children and grand children has been real helpful. I spend a great deal of time working which I find productive and helpful. I am starting to develop my own interests outside of the marriage and I actually have had the opportunity recently to talk to a couple gentlemen who I have been able to laugh with and enjoy their company.

You are strong! You can do this!!! There is light at the end of this tunnel...keep heading towards that light!!!
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post #89 of 100 (permalink) Old 01-30-2017, 06:57 PM Thread Starter
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Re: 32+ years coming to an end

Update: they served him tonight and I didn't cry. I am cried and talked out. I gave my whole heart one last ditch effort today to save this marriage and try to work things out and I got the 2x4 I needed to make me realize I was fighting by myself. He apologized but wants to set me free, not hold me back. I apologized and let him know I spent the last several months worried about him more than me and how he would keep going and now I am going to worry about myself. He isn't going to change, doesn't know how and is at a total loss, very very sad. But I wish him to stop being a victim, a martyr and make a life for himself but I can only wish if he doesn't its not on me. So this is a relief after months of emotional turmoil and I know I can now be strong and let go. I need to know how to move this to "divorcing" if anyone can tell me. Thank you all, there is such wonderful insightful folks here and I know this will still be hard but I just now know I am going to make it.
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post #90 of 100 (permalink) Old 01-30-2017, 07:44 PM
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Re: 32+ years coming to an end

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Update: they served him tonight and I didn't cry. I am cried and talked out. I gave my whole heart one last ditch effort today to save this marriage and try to work things out and I got the 2x4 I needed to make me realize I was fighting by myself. He apologized but wants to set me free, not hold me back. I apologized and let him know I spent the last several months worried about him more than me and how he would keep going and now I am going to worry about myself. He isn't going to change, doesn't know how and is at a total loss, very very sad. But I wish him to stop being a victim, a martyr and make a life for himself but I can only wish if he doesn't its not on me. So this is a relief after months of emotional turmoil and I know I can now be strong and let go. I need to know how to move this to "divorcing" if anyone can tell me. Thank you all, there is such wonderful insightful folks here and I know this will still be hard but I just now know I am going to make it.
You have taken the first step, just put one foot in front of the other. There is no timetable, this can be done in your own time when you are good and ready. Take care of yourself, pamper yourself, enjoy each day as it comes.
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