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32+ years coming to an end

24K views 118 replies 21 participants last post by  aine 
#1 ·
Sorry if this comes out mixed up, my emotions are a turbulent roller coaster. Married 32 years, he is retired military, two kids; one at home, one on their own. I shut down physically and emotionally two years ago; so yes we haven't had sex or any sort of intimate relationship in a long time. I felt I have nothing left, dead. I am trying desperately to come to gripes with the situation, I know in my head its over but getting my heart there is the hard work. I still love him but feel we have zero glue holding us together. Many years of alcohol issues (his), money issues, sex issues, you name it, we are both broken folks trying to put ourselves back together separately. I am in therapy to figure out my life and see how the hell I got here today, he is in therapy trying to work on a relationship with our son (another story). So much sorrow, so many regrets, anger and pain. I take responsibility for shutting down, I guess it was my last ditch effort to make him see me, really see me and it backfired, that is on me and I am owning/suffering the consequences. We live in the same house for the time being, moved to separate room just under two weeks ago. Working with trying to get financial crap, houses, kids, etc worked out, just crazy times. We had issues our entire marriage although there were good times there were some really bad too. We are both strong willed, stubborn people stuck in hell at the present time. When I ever get my crap straight I will start at the beginning. I find peace here, read some things that hit home, some good some hurtful. Thanks for being here.
 
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#31 ·
Sunshinesas I keep seeing the common theme of you trying to understand your husbands behavior and even justify it. You need to stop torturing yourself like this. The guy you married 32 years ago is long gone, this new guy is someone that easily lies to you, easily manipulates your emotions, easily causes you severe emotional pain. This is not a man you would fall in love with today is it? The only way you can stop the emotional misery you are in right now is to wash him out of your life, yes it is difficult, but you keep hoping something bad is going to suddenly seem alright, and that just isn't how it works.

You don't need all the evidence of his affairs, you don't need names and dates, you don't need to be contacting the OW, you don't need to know how his therapy is going, all that does is drag things out. What you need is to go no contact and start moving forward full speed ahead with the divorce.
 
#37 ·
We all have our experiences and practices that we bring to any thread, some will meet full success with the poster, some a mix, many may not be successful because if there is one commonality, we are not common, even if it seems so with our eyes.

The ones that do seem to have the best chance for success are the ones that have control of the one thing that can matter... ourselves.

Trust has nothing to hide... but there is a reason it gets hidden and it is doubtful it only surfaced a few years ago.

32 years of pride is going to be very hard to heal from, that is why I mentioned walls.

I am not one who believes divorce here is the only path, or even the best path, but if you keep your walls of pride in place, you may never see another path and your 32 years will end anyways.

Dropping those walls is frightening, it takes courage to be sure... and a lot of pain but is it more painful than what you currently face is what has to be assessed.

One give immeasurable growth while enduring the practice, the other may heal you in a different way but your walls and baggage remain because you never fully leave behind the bad baggage or lower the wall enough to toss it over.

You can't take effective action for a solution if your targets remain obscured... but we hesitate to expose ourselves to that direct fire for fear of being wounded, any military man knows that, lives that, breathes that.

But we forget that in our personal lives, every battlefield is not the same... or a battlefield at all.

So walls are built.

I will personally share they can come down if you want them to, and the better you are to see, the less you are to fear.

Sometimes we have to lead by example...
 
#40 · (Edited)
There's tremendous pressure for women in long marriages to stay until the natural end of the marriage -- until either their spouse dies or they do. When I was first contemplating ending my decades' long marriage (due to another round of cheating) I had absolutely no support from family or friends. They were all very unhappy that I wanted out after all those decades but I was beyond tired of being the only one trying to make our marriage work. I wanted peace in my life.

My ex-husband was opposed to the divorce. I'm sure in his own way he always loved me but he needed attention from other women and that eventually killed our marriage. After the divorce, he said several times how much he regretted his "mistakes" and wished we were still together but it no longer mattered. I never looked back.

Can long marriages be turned around? Sure. Does that often happen? Not that I've personally seen in the marriages of my family and friends (all of whom are still together). People admire long marriages and want to see them continue. They think if it's a long marriage then surely it must be a happy one (since you've lasted that long). Not necessarily true. Sometimes it's just long.
 
#41 ·
When both in a marriage recognize they have brought suffering to the relationship and would like it better, the relationship stands a chance... but all it takes is clarity from one to realize how no matter what, success or failure, that they know the suffering in place needs to be removed. How that happens is up our own recognition in where we accept our shortcomings, what we choose to do with them, and how we remain humble to ourselves as we journey forward.

Divorce may be the path lain at sunshinesas's feet, and that path may be deep in motion... she should be true to herself first. In that journey, one must understand the negative actions around them... we can spend all our time fuming about how wronged we have been or we can focus on something better.

The simplest is often not the easiest, and we can trap ourselves in it every time doing it anyway because our egos struggle to let go and want to feel justified. A poster here said the OP doesn't need to prove anything, they are absolutely right... closure is something we give ourselves, akin to forgiveness, and that allows us to be the one in control of all future interactions.

How we live with a disappointment of so many challenged years can either wear one out, or teach a better way.

I would like to see sunshinesas walk through this head held high and understanding there are better things ahead no matter which path she walks. If she leaves this relationship as it lies, the important thing is understanding how we stop sharing pain and disappointment and understand how such attachments fail us.

Love doesn't die on its own and both deserve peace... perhaps it's time to cast aside the tally sheet.
 
#42 ·
Before I start responding to post I want to give you a little background. I went in the Air Force a week out of high school, a homebody young girl, terrified but did it. I had low self esteem most my life, grew up in a violent home and had been abused by siblings; mentally, physically and sexually. I met my husband the last year I was in because the general consensus back then was women only went in the military to find a husband, and I surely wanted to prove that wrong. Met my husband and because he was on one side of the world and I on another, I got out and followed him, 24 years I followed him. Three weeks after marrying I find out he had another woman the entire year plus we were engaged, and the ironic part is he knew I was the one because I was faithful the entire time before we were married and I had plenty of chances not to be but I didn't believe in cheating. He was from a strong latin background, his mom loved me the first time she met me because I was a strong independent woman, unlike her who tolerated a controlling mean man who had multiple affairs. His dad begged him not to marry me because he should marry his race, his religion and a woman that would stay home, have his kids and not open her mouth. Needless to say he loved my strength and attitude so he never took his fathers advice.
 
#43 · (Edited)
We were happy but I look back now and think we didn't have much of a chance. I worked, he was gone all the time and even when home he drank, alot. We fought like cats and dogs. Mostly about money and sex. I was terrible with money and all he wanted was sex. We maintained but those years were some great ones and many bad but I was never going to give up, I loved him and stood by him. He did some pretty awful things to me back then but don't remember the majority because well he was drunk most the time. I held the home together many years alone, I was the strong one. During a extremely difficult time; my son was little and labeled ADHD, we fought terribly every day, the stress was immense, he took a trip home and found someone. Make a long story short, he had a lengthy EA and was planning on divorcing me and moving to Texas. I found out, we stayed together and tried to move forward. I never knew all the details, he wouldn't give them. It was some of the best few months I ever had with him, felt so loved and we talked and we shared. Sadly this was short lived and one sided. After a few months of bliss I gave up, I couldn't do it on my own, he just seemed to sit back and want me to work on things by myself. He reverted back quickly, doing what he wanted, when, with whom, and felt he didn't have to answer to me for anything.
 
#44 ·
My kids grew up in a home where they witnessed a pretty unhealthy relationship but they thought their parents were awesome. When times were good they were good but the bad seemed to outweigh the good. I am not sure how we got here today. We still fought alot, he still drank alot. We ran on auto pilot I think for most of the time. Kids got grown, daughter left for college, son is thinking about leaving, I took in my niece. Many changes coming. I told him for years if we didn't work on things there would be nothing left to salvage; I begged, pleaded, talked and got pretty much no where. His drinking slowed down alot and he was home way more but there just wasn't a connection. We seemed to have less and less in common and we were starting to live separate lives. He tried in the last two years to get me to do things, go out, find a common ground, I think I just felt so dead and empty inside I didn't know what to do anymore. We slept in the same bed barely touching for two years; I had an actual aversion to sex and his touch, it was scary to feel that way but I felt I was laying next to a stranger.
 
#45 ·
So this is by no means all the pieces to the puzzle and yep you are hearing just one side of the story.

Have I hurt him, probably more than I know or will ever know because he wasn't able to share any of his feelings the last two years. Did I relinquish my role easily, nope, this has been true hell. He wouldn't and still won't open up to me nor his therapist.

I too was starved of communication, companionship, warmth and compassion for years. I felt used.

He tells me I emasculated him? When I asked him why he married me knowing I was a strong, independent woman he says "I thought you would change?" Probably not a great place to be when starting off in a marriage.

I am owning my responsibility to where we are now; I was terrible with money for years, I withheld sex on many occasions, I grew to not trust him on all levels, I built walls. I am accountable.

He doesn't want to be accountable, he wants to sweep it all away and start new? How when you don't have the fundamental basics to even begin?

I am not looking for another man, not even in my thought process, not in my plan. I would have much rather worked things out with this one and grew old together but maybe there is just to much hurt, to much in the past, that cannot be reconciled. You have to be able to go back to move forward and he doesn't want to tackle that.

The pain is incredible, anyone been or going through it, knows that.
 
#46 ·
JSMART-
I am sorry you think he got a stand in because of my dereliction to duty. Went went to therapy together and he refused to address anything, refused to barely speak and continues to do so. I have stood on my head backwards to make things right and would have continued to do so. It can't be one sided. Yes I agree I took away my love along time ago but how long do you continue to give of yourself before you give up and there is nothing left to give. Sex between a couple is important but without any true connection and feeling its just sex and you can get that anywhere, its not what I want.
He made it perfectly clear upon returning from his last trip, after meeting his "friend", that there was no chance left. How am I supposed to get passed that? I tried, I apologized, I opened my heart and mind and thought we made some headway but he refuses to open up and let it out so I can't go on by myself.
Yes the history and the what could be or should be is incredibly hard to give up but it isn't a reason to stay and things not change.
 
#47 ·
AVR1962-We share such similar circumstances, sadly. But I agree with you, I didn't move out of our bedroom the last two plus years, we still slept next to each other until he went on his one of many trips and came back wrapped in an EA, that was the straw.
Our daughter is a recovering alcoholic and she is well aware he is one too but no one can make him see he has or ever had an issue with drinking. It just isn't enough to know you have memory lapses for many years, things you have no idea to be sorry for because you don't remember, pieces that are missing and never to be found. He still thinks he has no problem even though its not near what it was years ago but its his go to coping mechanism.
You are right, many years of embarrassing and shameful actions, many years of hurt and anger of what he did drinking, many nights of his stupor and incessant mournful depressive speeches, on auto repeat. My kids say today they wish he would have hit them and got it over because the hours of him repeating his sad stories and emotional outburst when drinking were horrendous and they haven't forgotten it.
Other women, yep, I think he needed the attention, see poor pitiful me, my wife no longer loves me, we don't have sex, she is cold. Also, Hmm-do I still have that charming side to pick up other women, yes and I will prove to her I can replace her rather quickly. Lastly, its easier to get someone new, they have no clue who you are other than what you present you are and don't know your history.
I am still torn, I thought I had this all settled and figured out. I still love him but am realizing slowly he can't be what I need nor want and even saying that is painful.
 
#52 ·
You are seeing the light lady!!! Don't hide from it any more.

I kept all of what I was dealing with away from my kids and I had no idea what they actually saw with their own eyes. My daughters are all adults now and two have been out of the house and on their own for several years now. My big concern when I finally decided to leave was how this would affect my daughters and how they would react to my news. All my children agreed that it was best to divorce. My youngest actually said, "It is about time." They saw without me saying a word to them. of course they don't know everything and they don't need to. This is their dad and they deserve to have a relationship with him.

As far as picking up women, you are absolutely right. They put their best foot forward, they blame us for not being interested in them but they are the ones ignoring us at home, not speaking to us days and weeks on end in retaliation (is the way I took it) for not "pleasing" him.

My ex used humor to find a way to get women to engage with him and when they would respond he would go back for more and pretty soon he had them going to lunch, and when "she" started talking about sex (his words) he called it off.....right!!!!! You know what all leads up to talking about sex? Geesh! Now, in his mid 50's, balding and 50 lbs overweight he still is using these same tactics on the ladies. I am sure some of the ladies in his building avoid him as the fat old lech that he is but I honestly believe there are women who are so desperate and seeking approval that eat the attention right up. I feel bad for these women. Don't be one of them Sunshine, you deserve better. You deserve happiness.
 
#48 ·
Funny, then you were a novelty for him but once that wore off, he detached mentally and emotionally from you. After a while, he wanted only a vagina, someone to support him while pushing you into the background instead of standing besides him and plus his alcohol issues made a relationship impossible.

Forget Jsmart, he thinks your husband cares about you the person, and he may at one point, but clearly that is no longer the case.

Jsmart blames you for your detachment from someone who wanted you for what you provide, someone that did not want to work on the relationship, someone that walled you off emotionally destroying the connection you had with him through his own volition. You erected barriers after years of pain, neglect and negligence and Jsmart expects you to simply just let another person use you as a blowup doll, hoping that he would want to reconnect which I am guessing did not work in the past.

Realistically, giving him sex would have accomplish nothing except devalue you as an object, not a person to connect with. You were in love with the past him and and the reality was that was a different him through the chemical high of the honeymoon phase. All of his issues starting manifesting itself over the years from his background of how he was raised, his service that has taken its toll. This new woman provides him an escape, something to feel that high.

LOL, and some posters state that sex is what connects them but to whom? If there is no communication, knowing of one another, then the other person just becomes a body as stimulus for lust.

Those two years was you protecting your self from decades of hurt and I am sure you did things that hurts him, but it sounds like a lot of his issues stem way before you came into that picture. IMHO, he got bored of you and when he needed to releive himself, you were a body to use. Clearly he has no compunction cheating on you in the past when things are good and things are bad MOSTLY THROUGH HIS OWN ACTION AND THEN BLAMES IT ON YOU FOR PROTECTING YOURSELF AGAINST THE PAIN THAT HE HAS IMPOSED ON YOU WHEN HE SHUTS YOU OUT.

Sex does not solve any issues when it comes to personal demons, it hooks you in longer and distorts clarity. In this case, it has devalued you over the years.

Ask yourself why you have placed yourself below him for so long, allowed another to treat you poorly. Clearly, he did not care enough about you from freeing you from this misery and could have divorced you but he did not. Even though it may have hurt you at the time, it would have been a kindness because he knew he could not give you the love you needed nor value you as a best friend, companion.
 
#49 ·
Mr F, you put so much of what I know and feel into words. I am asking myself what is wrong with me that I tolerated things for so long, so much regret, why did I not leave years ago? I know I may get those answers eventually, maybe not. Hell I even ask him why he didn't leave long ago, he says because of the kids but they too would have been better off.
After this all really hit the proverbial fan in Jan this past year, he started working out, getting healthier, dropping weight, etc. I was too, trying to get healthier, stronger. We talked but barely, I pretty much shut him off. He lost about 25 lbs and one day I was sitting on the porch. Now keep in mind this is after so many conversations of my needs, his unwillingness to change, blah blah blah. He pulls up a chair and ask "can I ask you a favor?" I said ok. He said "can we have sex please, I lost this weight, my libido came back and I am really suffering!" I was in shock, didn't know whether to laugh, cry, scream. So here we are again really, I mean I told you not to touch me, you are a stranger, things are horrible, we have no connection and you ask me to have sex! I couldn't, wouldn't do it and still can't believe he asked me.
 
#54 ·
Sunshine, I know your response was directed to Mr F but my fingers want to leap on the keyboard when I read your posts. It's my guess that you you had tried to address issues with your husband for years and felt unheard and when he kept pushing his desire for sex with you, you eventually felt that all you meant to him? An object, as the real intimacy (hand holding, sweet gestures, his interests in you) had long since left. So his goal to get you back in the sack floored you and you realized is focus and it made you feel even less loved by this man. I went thru all this myself and my ex's response was almost identical.

We had been going thru therapy and our counselor suggested that we make a list of 5 things that were priority for me in my relationship with my husband and I was then to give husband that list. I did, he looked it over and he did the same. On his list he said that I would start sleeping in his bed as man and wife, there would be no more counseling, he would read no more relationship books and I needed to accept him the way he was. I told the counselor that I could not just hop back in my husband's bed like nothing happened and bury my head in the sand. I told him, our counselor, (husband sitting right there) I had felt betrayed with all his shenanigans with other women. Our counselor agreed and told my husband there was no way that I could do this and not feel used because my emotional needs were not being met and he was not doing his part to make me feel loved and wanted by him for anything but sex. It was a male counselor and he came down pretty hard on my husband and told him that he had been emotionally unavailable to his first wife and the children from his first marriage and that was why he had no relationship with his sons and that was what lead to the divorce. he told my husband that I was ready to walk out the door for the very same reason. Did it change him? Did he say he was sorry? Did he try to make things better? No! He became mad at me because I could not do as he had wanted on his list. He did not speak to me for weeks after that.

Ask yourself why you stayed but don't be hard on yourself. We all have our reasons for staying in these dysfunctional situations. I think many times it goes back to our own childhood and how we were treated by pour parents growing up. I know that was the case for me. I married my mother....alcoholic who could not be pleased and was emotionally unavailable. My heart had hardened towards her treatment of me and I became pretty independent but I sought that love I wanted from her from people just like her. We tend to seek what we are familiar to in our family of origin. Getting to the root of that and getting past the hurt makes a big difference in how you relate to others. I was finally able to forgive my mom and that did not mean running back to her, that meant no longer needing her love or approval. When I did that I was able to finally let go of my husband. For the first time I felt like I was stepping into my own life.

You can do this!!!!
 
#50 ·
Says more about him. Context is important. He would have never respected you if you gave in anyways, and only damage your self-worth and dignity.

Just keep improving yourself. No matter with whom he ends up with, he is the same guy, with the same programming and will end up shutting out others no matter whom he is with. There are issues that people bring and sometimes do not manifest themselves at the time so people get hooked into beleiving the one they fell in love with is the real them. There are issues brought on to other later on. You stated you were strong and indepedent as a youth, but to cope with your husband, you change to deal with your situation without realizing it. YThe process is slow so you probably did not notice, but he help mold yu along the way. His neglect proved you did not have that much value as action also communicate as well as words. Him asking you for sex because his pr1ck started working again, not because he wanted to have sex with someone he wants to know on an intimate level and express it.
 
#51 ·
Your story is a good lesson for readers: you can't escape your parents/upbringing.

He married you to give his overbearing, unloving dad a big F you. But he still became his dad because that's all he ever saw. You became strong outwardly to counteract the abuse in your childhood, but your mental strength, your ability to value yourself, was missing, as it almost always is when you grow up being abused. So you stayed because you couldn't see that you had the right to matter more.
 
#53 ·
I am sorry, I hadn't realized he had fully and unconditionally gave up, it sounds as he had quit himself a long time ago.

Even so, for your own self love, respect, and worth... remember we are the masters of our own walls.

Pain can fall to our feet when we learn how this affects so many other things.

Peace be with you.
 
#55 · (Edited)
I am going to step into the fire here I'm sure, but I've thought about this thread all morning.

Before I get beat up, I am not excusing any behavior that damages self and undermines the relationship, but there is always information that eases in that when a whole picture made, the corners get rounded out and if somebody struggling with far fewer years can glean even a snippet of wealth from a thread, it is worth the time to post.

AVR1962, you know I am one of your supporters as you worked through your own trials... and you know of my path as well.

Such said, when sunshineas shared that her son was ADHD diagnosed, that does place a different view to it whether one likes to see it or not. I'll not pose to know such a large picture in a thread, there is only a snapshot from the last three challenging decades, and while it may be perceived as unfair or ill-received, looking at the hows and why of relationship struggles, both from several views, one has to wonder how it plays into the overall and thus the healing to come.

Alcohol and cheating are destructive crutches no matter which partner has ADD/ADHD, thankfully they never played a part in my current marriage but in review of my past recognize that with compassion and empathy lost, was doubling down on what I knew best and lost myself to transferring the only tools I had at the time, which created a very unhappy and angry individual (myself), and made life miserable for others.

My wife is ADD/ADHD, my daughter severe with some BPD and depression, and from the stories my wife's brothers share... their mother and my mother-in-law probably more like my daughter. When my daughter struggled, my wife's surfaced and it was twice the battle to maintain sanity in the worst way... we were both where you are at 32 years at 16, and something had to change and I had created a codependent disaster, but it wasn't going to easily be the others to change, I could not control such. I compensated with walls, then learned to tear them down to stand open, with full clarity and unafraid...perhaps that is why I mention them so much.

So if I may ask @sunshineas, is there a possibility you or your husband have struggled with this? Since many studies mark as high as 90% of all ADD/ADHD comes from one or both parents, has this played an unrecognized and debilitating factor in your relationship? It doesn't sound like understanding will stop the ending you face, but the important thing is that you need to trust yourself that you have survived a lot, and you will survive this, do not discount what may be the necessary elephant in the challenge you faced to help you land at the peace you deserve.

If you find my words too lofty and not fitting to this situation, I understand... but living in an ADD/ADHD household for an angry and reactive 70% of my marriage and having many years experience since learning to respond differently has opened so many healthier options.

Please remember to practice mindful loving-kindness as you finalize this part of your life, it makes great practice as you step forward on the new path.
 
#56 ·
EB I am not offended but even though we went through the whole ADHD diagnosis, drugs, therapy, etc I took him off everything when he was 5 1/2 and taught him new ways. He had a high IQ and was terribly bored and if I had to go back and do it again, I would have waited to start him in pre-k. This was a bitter fight in our marriage and almost caused a divorce at the time. I refused to give up on my son and I believed in him and he has done well. I don't know I am ADHD, very detailed oriented. I may be a bit OCD though lol. Husband, no idea, never really noticed that it could be an issue? Sorry not much help on this one.
 
#57 ·
Then I am honored you took the time to read, thank you.
 
#58 ·
Hi,
Sorry to hear that... You are entitled to half his pension, part of his social security, half of all the marital assets, cash, and 1/2 of the home and if each of you own a car, you get one car. Get a lawyer, a credit card in your name if you don't have one. You may get maintenance if you have to take courses for increasing your job skills. Get an attorney. Photocopy anything and everything.

I am going through a divorce. My wife owns the home with my name not on the title, mortgage, deed what have you. She has a IMRF pension to be paid out in three years. One car in my name, one car in both of our names. and for the last ten years I had been paying for Federal taxes for her because she chose not to pay the IRS. So she would not pay the IRS so i had to take extra Fed taxes and pay them for her out of my check.

We were talking about we using the same lawyer and be amicable, get done cheeply. I told her what I wanted She got very angry that she only makes $28K and I have the potential to make $40K. She thinks I can make more, but I doubt it. I am not employable as a healthcare manager at $80K. I am so industry specific. Anyway... She is angry at me, all i know if things were reversed she would do the same...

I am requesting that I:
1. I Keep the Subaru titled in both our names. 2. She keeps the Ford that is only in my name and attempts to get a loan to make sure I get the Subaru. 3. I get 1/3 of furniture and cooking,dishes stuff, 4. I get $13K of our equity in the home, and somehow, 5. I get a portion of her IMRF teacher pension. Amd the usally split bed sets and furniture etc.

She is angry, I told her I can request this, but doesn't mean I will get it. My lawyer advice 1/2 hour consultation for $25.00 told me this. She is pissed that she doesn't make enough money for living in Chicago and its suburbs. Neither can I, but somehow I can make it work.

It is up to the judge to decide. I could get the Subaru, or the judge will decide who gets the Ford or Subaru. the judge will decide whether I get a portion of her pension. As for a house that she purchased six months before we married in her name. It is 50/50 if I get $13K of the house equity; however if a spouse who is not on the title and or the mortgage could get their share of the equity of the home due to this, The spouse put sweat equity in doing a few repairs, doing yard work and cleaning regularly, plus if both parties co-mingled funds together that paid the mortgage you should be entitled to some equity. It is called transmutation of assets. For Sh*t's and giggles, I am requesting to potentially get reimbursed for paying her Fed taxes from my pay check. The Fed tax reimbursent may be a crap shoot.

All I can do if we use the same lawyer and we can discuss this and come to an agreement, or I refute the distribution that her lawyer disagrees with of what I want. I will have to pay a lawyer for advice to learn how to get what I want or tell me if this is feasible. Her lawyer could tell me something true or untruthful which I will need to verify. I don't have money for a lawyer so I need to do it my self.

What do you think of my wife getting $3K for the divorce from her daughter, her son, her son's live in girlfriend, and three brothers. Each has to chip in $500.00. That I think is o.k. None of my business, but I do know by her accepting the money, she is setting up the preponderance if she regrets the decision, she will know that her entire family got involved in a serious matter by invoking themselves in another's marriage. In my book that is taboo just like cheating, beating up a child, a pet, and spouse beating. You don't have family to help pay, or give advice, or take sides. Very taboo. If you can't afford it, you save the money... No handouts ever. AM I BEING TOO STRICT IN THIS THINKING?


A final note, If you think it's over, or counseling will not work o.k. move on. If it is completely dead all the prayer, counseling, or romance plus flowers will not bring that loving feeling back. I had a rough ten years with my wife. When I woke up one morning feeling naked and ashamed being emotionally intimately close with her I knew it was over. Just picture how Adam and Eve felt between each other and before got by eating that apple. The feeling as being one (in sync) with each other, the Lord, and the land, then losing it. That is how I felt. It can't be fixed. Sad in away.

Good luck, There is growth and opportunity. If you are lower to mid-fifties you have a lot of hot, hot, loving times, relationships to have, even fall in love again.. be optimistic. Be with friends, volunteer, exercise, and take care of yourself, do something for yourself you have been wanting to do and cross it off the bucket list. Mine is to visit Paris and live a few months there and even hang out in Provence France. Will I get there,? I hope...
 
#59 ·
I meet my lawyer tomorrow, he had met with the one I had an appt with today so I can't see him. We got through lots of paperwork about the financial side yesterday but something happened tonight. We got into a heated argument and he lost his cool, threatened me and said he wanted to punch me in the face. I didn't back down but now feeling a bit uneasy. I texted him and all he seemed to be worried about is me telling the kids, something else for them to hate him for he thinks. He has only ever been that raging angry once in our marriage, years ago. He told me to leave, I irritate him, I am a b****, I am crazy, I ruined his life, on and on, I never backed down and my poor niece got in between us. Something other than what we argued about set this off; loss, loss of control over everything I don't know what. I fear if he had hit me it probably wouldn't have ended well, for either of us. He acted fairly calm today but seemed bothered underneath, something was lurking. He keeps acting like his life is over and if the kids know this he will have nothing. I told him they love him, maybe upset or pissed but they love him. I thought he was in a better place than I am but evidently not. Sadly he pays a therapist, maybe he should actually talk to her for a change? I am glad my son wasn't here, 6ft 4in, 300 lbs he would have probably took his dad down or tried. Maybe I should have called the cops and had him removed for a day or two but I fear his wrath may be worse. I will speed this divorce with the lawyer tomorrow, this is going somewhere I never expected it to.
 
#60 ·
Sunshine, you have to think of your safety. His future with his children obviously feels threatened. Let him know that you will do nothing to keep him from his children and that you both have a right to have a relationship with them. tell him that you do not want either of you to talk to your children about the spouse. Keep you word and hopefully he will keep his.

Is it wise to be living under the same roof at this time? Is this something you can talk to your husband about? Could either one of you stay some other place temporarily to things are settled?
 
#61 ·
As the D comes close to happening, it's becoming real. He realizes he's fvcked up and the kids will blame him for the destruction of the family.

He'll be irrational over you. He's furious because despite all of his grievances, no sex for 2 years and a wife that emasculates him, he knows his world is about to crumble and that he had a huge role in the cause.

He can't verbalize it because pride and hurt but he knows he's about to lose the love of his life and he's powerless to stop it or control how it plays out.
 
#62 ·
He can't verbalize it because pride and hurt but he knows he's about to lose the love of his life and he's powerless to stop it or control how it plays out.
Sorry, but if she really is the love of his life, he would have put a real effort into working on the marriage. It does not sound like he did, from what has been laid out here.
 
#64 ·
You state that he lost a lot weight and hit the gym. Is it correct to assume that during that period he also cut back on the drinking?

If so, he was doing at least one key thing that he knows is important to you and important to the health of the marriage. And when he asks, you still say no to sex.

This fits into his narrative of the marriage as you as the sexual refuser, and probably to his view of you as the endlessly refusing wife being a big source of both the marital strife and part of the reason he drinks.

So of course now that he's tried self improvement and focusing on bettering himself, and told you how important it was to him, and you still refused sex, he's very, very angry.

If less booze was part of his health and fitness push, then he tried making a big positive step and meeting one of your key needs, and tried bluntly communicating his needs, and you still said no. In his mind you're still just not willing to do what it takes for the marriage, so of course he's done.
 
#65 ·
There is another way to look at this....I do see what you are saying MartinBeck. Could it be that the relationship in the beginning was full of sexual activity and perhaps as young people maybe their relationship was sexually based as often times is the case with young couples. Children and work come along and OP and husband's hormones settle into this state of where they both were before they met, with his being 10x greater than hers which is biologically what is predictable. Husband still wants the sex they experienced before marriage or as newlyweds but OP would like a bit more concentration on family and their relationship beyond sex which again I think is common for both parties. Arguments may have even occurred on this very subject. OP is telling her husband that she needs ______ (maybe his help with the kids or around the house), she feels overwhelmed with the duties as mom trying to balance a career and simply put sex is not #1 on her priority list. I think for a majority of women this is a no-brainer. I would be willing to guess that OP pleased her husband many many times when she was timed, overwhelmed or sick to keep him happy which is also common for women.

Life in the military settles into OP's husband boozing it up with his buddies which I personally have witnessed time and again with the military men especially (part of a military family myself for 27 years) and OP does not like the ugly behavior she sees and she complains about his drinking, maybe she tries to limit it, maybe she walks away but she still doesn't like it. They already have distance from years of other issues which happens in marriage. OP's husband is unwilling to talk about the problems so there is no resolve and OP is not happy because of the years of unresolved issues. Her husband on the other hand is living life like there is no issues because he really never took her serious in the first place or did not see her complaints as his. Communication has broke down and the marriage is slowly deteriorating. he wants sex, she wants the husband she once loved back. The man that used to touch her without it being sexual....hugs and hand holding, and being told she was loved. She wants her husband to be an active father and take responsibility with with rather than being a passive, almost non-existent role in their lives.

He finally realizes he had better change something or she is going to walk. Rather than having a talk with her and telling her, "I know I have let myself go.....I have been drinking too much, I have been lazy and I can see why you have not been attracted to me. I would really like to put on marriage back on track. What can we do as a couple to make this work?" he opted to go to the gym which she might have been thankful for but wondering at the same time what the heck his sudden interest in the gym is all about and perhaps even suspicious that he had ulterior motives (like women seeking). Maybe he did try to cut back on the booze but in all the years together she has seen it before and she knows it won't last she she is just kind of coasting along kind of watching to see what is going to happen with all this. Then he pops out with the statement about losing weight and wants sex. Of course she is going to be befrazzled. These thoughts were not in her head. There were no issues that were resolved in the process.

A wife that is hurt does not just start sleeping in the spare room, nor does she just stop having sex with her husband for no reason. There was trouble in the marriage before these things ever happened. She was unheard, what she tried to do to accept, forgive, fix, please, or resolve the issues were met with deaf ears. She becomes stuck between a rock and a hard place emotionally and she feels like she wants to keep the family together but her needs are not being met by her husband. She is questioning whether she wants to stay, she realizes the man she once knew is no longer the man she is married to. She has spent so much of her time and energy in raising her children and meeting everyone else's needs that she doesn't even know who she is anymore, and more than likely something that had been expressed to her husband.

OP's brain is still tracking on sex and what he needs to fulfill his sexual desires, priority #1 in his life besides keeping a job to provide a roof over the family. OP is disgusted and feels all he wants of her is sex. She can't give to him anymore because that is all she feels she is to him anymore and maybe as she starts reflecting she feels that maybe that's all she ever was to him. Once a wife feels this I do not think there is any way to go back, especially if there has been any kind of infidelity, porn addiction and husband seeking the attention of other women. She will see that focus and separate herself emotionally from him to save herself. She might not even real what she is going thru. She just knows she can't be with him.

As far the drinking....no one was making OP's husband drink. He made his choices. It is his responsibility to find his way out of his own addiction.
 
#66 ·
Oh, I don't disagree! I'm sure that your picture of the marriage has a lot of truth, although as always we only have the OP and not the spouse. I'm sure both partners would say that they were repeatedly and chronically not prioritized.
I'm not familiar with the military party culture she's described, but I have seen a lot of corporate sales organizations that have a frat-like drinking and hookup culture. It gets weird in your late thirties and sad in your forties and is totally incompatible with family responsibilities.
He clearly did not support her and meet basic expectations of fatherhood and sobriety. And yah, nobody wants to sleep with a sloppy overweight chronic drunk.

Although I'm sure if he were here he'd have complaints about her disappearing into the black hole of self-inflicted Mommy Martyrdom and not making an effort at things important to him, sex and otherwise.

But all that set the stage - now it's the brink, or maybe past the brink. My point is that her refusal after he made an effort at both action and communication was an escalation on her part. It explains his lack of interest in reconciliation. If she wants to hold out any hope of continuing in the marriage, then bluntly she needs to blow him on the reg. While of course insisting that he uphold standards and expectations of behavior and while she bluntly insists that her key needs also be met!!!

Cutting him off is an escalation move and is a strong signal to him to move on and end it - just like if he (say) stopped depositing his paycheck and cut her off financially. You don't do that until you're done.

If she just truly can't bring herself to have sex with him, then she needs to come to the sad understanding that the relationship is really over and she cannot be married to him.
 
#67 ·
I disagree. I don't think its escalation but rather disengagement. Very different. Escalation is manipulation and reaction to someone else - it's about the other. Disengagement is withdrawing into self - it's about focusing on your own wellness.

TAM members routinely advise disengagement to protect oneself - the 180 - in situations of abuse and infidelity.

If there is any impact on the other it is to draw them in to better understand your unmet needs and cause them to think about why you are disengaging (but this should not be the intent of the 180 or you're back to manipulation)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#68 ·
Hmm. Disengagement / "180" is a short-term escalation tactic to prepare yourself mentally and emotionally for the divorce and to potentially shock the offending parter/spouse into waking up about the critical urgency of the unmet needs.

Disengaging for years is both incredibly cruel to the spouse and a sign of lack of willingness to get out of their comfort zone to actually pull the trigger and divorce. You can't be disengaged and simultaneously hoping for reconciliation for 2+ years and expect a magic turnaround in outcome.

In OP's case, the husband sounds like a terrible guy, but the OP needs to acknowledge that her historical role as sexual refuser is not compatible with her stated desire for reconciliation.
 
#69 ·
I guess it may be that the sexes see OP's issue from different perspective. Only hearing her side, I can see that her husband has had many issues that caused OP to become resentful for many years. That resentment led to her emotionally abandoning her husband.

As a man, I find OP's withholding of sex for not only 2 years but the way she wielded it throughout the marriage to get her husband to submit to her as something that drove a high drive man to numb himself from the pain with the bottle.

As a traditional male, her husband didn't do well with constantly being emasculated by a wife that wanted to wear the pants. Top it off with him being high drive and her using sex as a weapon, you end up with a man that resorts to destructive outlets.

Many posters here want to minimize OPs role in the demise of the marriage. There is no doubt that her husband fvcked up over and over but we have realize that actions cause reactions. Sometimes we have be accountable for not only our actions but also the reaction we get .

Now they're both at the end of the road and despite hurting each so deeply, they both regret that their at this point.
 
#73 ·
You keep saying things like emasculation and sex as a weapon, but you fail to take into account that women don't 'turn on' sex typically for sex's sake; they have an emotional component that is necessary for almost every woman to even WANT to have sex, much less endure it from a man who's been hurting her. It's a very complex relationship. Things like assault and rape and shame and submitting and men being more aggressive and anger and manipulation and threats are often involved once the woman has retreated out of self-safety.

Men often rush to say 'just give it to him for God's sake! don't be such a b*tch!' when we could have just as often rushed to say 'treat her as well as you treated her when you were dating and she WOULD!'

Women don't choose to withdraw emotionally; they do it as their "Love Bucket" is depleted and filled with holes from all the Love Busters, so any love left in that bucket just flows out all of those holes. As she has described. So having sex with a person who hurts you is especially painful for a woman. Men, probably not so much, since they have the urge and the erection and just need to get it done.

She didn't just up and decide to withdraw.
 
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