Looks like we're parting ways. - Page 7 - Talk About Marriage
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post #91 of 147 (permalink) Old 04-13-2017, 07:59 AM
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Re: Looks like we're parting ways.

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Resignedwife, this all sounds so civilised and clinical almost. I wonder how are YOU actually. You have resigned yourself to this process. Have you already done your grieving? Have you already got past the hurt of rejection, of marriage failure, or your H basically abandoning you? I know these might sound like cruel questions but when you write it is so business like, so functionalist. Who is Resignedwife, what were your dreams, hopes. I guess I am trying to ask, HOW ARE YOU? Will you get IC after this?
I think after the dust has settled, her divorce is final, and after she has had a month or two to decompress, the grief will hit.


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post #92 of 147 (permalink) Old 04-14-2017, 09:50 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Looks like we're parting ways.

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Resignedwife, this all sounds so civilised and clinical almost. I wonder how are YOU actually. You have resigned yourself to this process. Have you already done your grieving? Have you already got past the hurt of rejection, of marriage failure, or your H basically abandoning you? I know these might sound like cruel questions but when you write it is so business like, so functionalist. Who is Resignedwife, what were your dreams, hopes. I guess I am trying to ask, HOW ARE YOU? Will you get IC after this?
Thanks for the questions. Yes, at this point it is very clinical - all our emotion was spent three years ago when I discovered his EA. Back then there were a LOT of tears and anguish (on both sides), but we decided to try counseling AGAIN to see if we could get back on track. But the problem is that by that point, I think we were both done - but unwilling or unable to say it. Him unable because of fear of admitting failure; me unwilling because I know I could not support myself and the kids as a single parent.

When we both made the decision this past January to separate, we both felt RELIEF. It was palpable for both of us. Since then, his depression has all but disappeared (other than dissatisfaction about his job) and his drinking has lessened as a result.

I don't feel rejected (I did 3 years ago though, but got over it), I don't consider 20 years of marriage a failure, and I don't believe my husband is abandoning me.

My dreams are to raise two healthy (physically, spiritually and mentally) kids to adulthood, continue to grow in my career, continue to hang out with my friends when my schedule allows, continue building my retirement savings, and take some really amazing vacations here and there (in places that the husband refused to go over the years).

I don't feel I need IC when this is all done. I'm not the type to sit and wring my hands in despair wondering WHY WHY WHY.

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post #93 of 147 (permalink) Old 04-14-2017, 09:53 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Looks like we're parting ways.

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Have you told your kids yet? If not, are you worried about them finding out through the grapevine or accidentally overhearing conversation?
No, the kids do not know yet. The only time we talk about what's happening is when we are out by ourselves or over email. Never at home.

I'm not worried about the grapevine. The only people who know do not engage with my kids at all - either because they live in another state or because they do not have kids that would overhear THEIR conversation and then tell my kids.

The plan is still to tell the kids next January with a goal of putting the house on the market by late March/early April.

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post #94 of 147 (permalink) Old 04-14-2017, 10:00 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Looks like we're parting ways.

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I think after the dust has settled, her divorce is final, and after she has had a month or two to decompress, the grief will hit.
Truly, my grief was experienced three years ago when I discovered the EA my husband was having. That was a TOUGH TOUGH time for me.

I'm pretty stoic by nature, but would sit in my office at work weeping on and off all day for several weeks after the discovery.

I'd lay awake at night (with him next to me), wondering if staying and doing marriage counseling was the right thing to do.

I'd crunch numbers and lament the fact that my salary (even with child support added in) just wasn't at a level that allowed me the opportunity to even TRY to separate.

I'd come into the TV room to find him on his phone and think, "Is he texting someone?" Or he'd come home late from work and I'd think, "Was he with someone?" Or he'd take longer at the store than I thought it should take and think, "Is he sitting in his car talking to her on the phone somewhere?"

It was truly a HORRIBLE time for me, and it took me at least a year to get past it - even with the counseling. That's when my grief was spent.

Now I only feel, as I said just now in a previous post, relief that we are separating, relief that I can actually afford (thanks to a promotion and large raise) to be a single parent, and excitement about knowing that once we're separated, I won't have to worry, or wonder, or doubt ANYthing because he won't be my problem at that point.

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post #95 of 147 (permalink) Old 04-14-2017, 11:56 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Looks like we're parting ways.

Just got back from the final meeting with the mediator. Both plans are approved (but will not be signed until Husband and I actually separate). Just prior to official separation we'll meet with the mediator one more time to update our financials, and possibly recalculate child custody if our salaries have dramatically changed. We'll then sign and notarize our plans the same day we close on the house sale, signifying that the one-year separation period has officially started.

She said that when the separation year is up we'll need to come back to her to get a signed form signifying that we went through mediation as part of our separation agreement. We'll then attach that form to the parenting and financial plans and submit them all to the court with our divorce paperwork.

And just like that we're 90% done with mediation. Grand total spent thus far: ~$1300. We'll pay a bit more next spring when we're ready to actually separate.

Now it's just the waiting game - finding a new job for him and taking our time getting the house and landscaping ready to list the house next spring.

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post #96 of 147 (permalink) Old 04-18-2017, 07:36 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Looks like we're parting ways.

Ugh. Bad morning this morning. My husband and I differ in two distinct ways that have always been a source of arguing. This morning they both reared their heads.

I was talking about my job and the discussion moved into talking about his, and his unhappiness. After a brief rant, he said, "It doesn't matter - I'm quitting in 3 months anyway."

"With a job, though," I said.

"I don't care - I just know in three months I will no longer work there."

"But with a new job in place."

He shrugged and said, "Maybe not."

I said, "It doesn't work like that. If you truly want out of there, you need to step up your search and find a new job. THEN quit." (I did not mention at this moment in the discussion that 90% of his job search has been ME doing the searching and networking, not him). I then asked, "Have you followed up with any of the people you've spoken with thus far?" (I already knew the answer - he has not).

At this point he went to get in the shower and saw a glass I had put on the dresser from the night before. He snarled, "Don't forget to take your glass downstairs when you go - I shouldn't have to do everything around here." With that he got in the shower and we didn't speak another word to each other before I left the house for work.

And there are the two things. First, he can be MISERABLE about something (i.e., his job, our marriage) and he does nothing about it. He'd rather wallow in misery. I'm Type A when it comes this kind of stuff, he's Type B. Granted, when it comes to our marriage, I have stayed in it as well, but I found happiness where I could. But when it comes to employment, if I'm unhappy, I find something a new job or figure out a way to make my current employment get better. He was only going to spend a year with his current employer - but he's now been there 10 years (and miserable for 8-9 of those years).

I've tried to hang back to let him be Type A of his own life. But he just isn't. It was only when I finally let my Type A go into action and told him we should end the marriage, that's when things started to move. I can't be Type A for his job hunt - I certainly can't email the recruiters and say, "What are you doing to find my husband a job?" A helicopter wife is even worse than a helicopter parent - and I'm neither.

The second thing was his throwaway comment about doing everything around the house. Now, I'll be the first to admit he does a lot, but that's because when it comes to the house he is a Type A personality. I'm much more Type B. After dinner he wants the dishes done right away, whereas I think it's okay to leave them there for an hour or two and just relax for a bit. If laundry is done, he wants it out of the dryer and folded while it's still warm, whereas I'm okay leaving it in the dryer (or the laundry basket) for a few hours and doing it later. It will always GET DONE, but on a different timeline. As a result, it can look like he does more - but it's only because he feels a need to get it done NOW, versus later. It's almost as though he thinks that if he doesn't do it, it'll never get done. But that's not true. I do them, but at a less rushed pace.

There have been times over the years that he has "tested" me and deliberately left things not done and guess what? They GOT DONE.

So what is this post about? Who knows. I just needed to vent, really. This morning was the first time in a long while that we've sniped at each other. I know he griped about the glass out of defensiveness because he knows I'm right about his job hunt.

Old Me would have gone in and apologized to him in order to make peace (I've been doing that for 20 years), but this morning I did not. He never apologizes for ANYthing, so why should I continue to apologize even when I know I did nothing wrong?
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post #97 of 147 (permalink) Old 04-18-2017, 08:38 AM
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Re: Looks like we're parting ways.

Ugh. Soon to be over.


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post #98 of 147 (permalink) Old 04-18-2017, 08:41 AM
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Re: Looks like we're parting ways.

RW:

You are divorcing. What he does or does not do about his job is not your problem.

As to the apologizing, try to do your best to be the bigger person. Not easy with someone like that, but you will build emotional resiliency in yourself while not stirring the pot in the delicate period of negotiation.

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post #99 of 147 (permalink) Old 04-18-2017, 09:09 AM
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Cool Re: Looks like we're parting ways.

I cannot help but think that you are doing the right thing and that you are handling the matter in an extremely mature manner!

So sorry to see you going through all of this! My heartfelt wishes go out to both you and the kids!

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post #100 of 147 (permalink) Old 04-18-2017, 09:09 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Looks like we're parting ways.

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Originally Posted by farsidejunky View Post
RW:

You are divorcing. What he does or does not do about his job is not your problem.

As to the apologizing, try to do your best to be the bigger person. Not easy with someone like that, but you will build emotional resiliency in yourself while not stirring the pot in the delicate period of negotiation.
But it WOULD be my problem if he chooses in three months to quit his job without having a new one because then I am the sole breadwinner - and we certainly cannot afford to live on just my salary alone (I make 30% less than he does). I'd much rather he wait and get laid off (if that's in the cards (he thinks it is)) because at least then he'll get severance pay and be eligible for unemployment, which will help soften the financial blow of being out of work. If he quits, he gets nothing.

Although I suppose a "benefit" would be that we'd separate sooner because we'd have to sell the house because we can't afford the mortgage on my salary alone.

He sent me a half-@ssed apology email saying he's sorry we aren't "on the same page" about his job hunt. But he did thank me for the help I've provided thus far. So that's something, I guess?


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post #101 of 147 (permalink) Old 04-19-2017, 09:46 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Looks like we're parting ways.

So last night Husband acknowledged he was wrong in the argument we had yesterday morning. He agreed that he needed to take charge of his job hunt and that he would not quit until he either had a new job or was laid off. He emailed all the recruiters and network contacts I found for him to check in and see if they had heard of anything, and to provide a cleaner, updated resume to all of them.

I mentioned to him the possibility of looking in other cities - Chicago, Houston, NYC, Atlanta, Boston, etc. - since their job markets might be more robust than our local metro area. He said he was considering it but wanted to wait another month or two before expanding his search outside our area. I told him that if he ended up having to relocate for a job, we'd figure out a new plan for the separation timeline and child visitation, and not to let that concern him at all.

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post #102 of 147 (permalink) Old 04-26-2017, 01:32 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Looks like we're parting ways.

**Long post ahead - sorry!**

Today I had a doozy of a phone call from my husband at work. He's fallen back into severe depression about his job, with very little hope. But in the midst of that discussion, he said he wasn't sure if he wanted to separate and that he wanted to try marriage counseling again.

I told him that since we weren't planning on separating until January, I would be willing to go to counseling, but only if he went to individual counseling for himself AND got on anti-depressants to help balance himself out. He agreed immediately to both. I then said it was up to him to find a counselor for us to see, and to find another one for his IC, and to go see his doctor to get the meds. He said he would.

I'm not sure how I feel - I suppose my initial thoughts are of the "Wait and see" variety. Wait and see if he finds a counselor (usually I'm the one that researches things and makes appointments). Wait and see if he'll actually go to IC. Wait and see if he not only gets the meds but TAKES them faithfully every day. Wait and see if his actions show that he wants us to become better with each other.

What I suspect is actually happening is that he is still deep in the throes of the lowest chasm of his midlife crisis, and that he's realizing what his post-separation future may look like if he doesn't make a change. To me, his post-separation life looks very lonely. He has no friends in the town where we live (in 10+ years we've lived here he's made NO EFFORT to make friends - no one that he can call and just say, "Wanna hang out and watch a game?"), no connections with anyone, and he has no hobbies to speak of. I've encouraged him MANY MANY MANY MANY MANY times, "Hey, why don't you call Guy A and see if he wants to come over and watch the game?" or "Hey, why not call Guy B and see if he wants to go grab a beer with you." But he does nothing, makes no attempts.

And it's the same with the kids and me. "Hey, the kids and I want to go see 'This Movie' - want to come?" And he'll scrunch up his nose and say, "No, that's not the kind of movie I'd want to see." Or I'll say, "I recorded 'That TV Show' because I know you like This Actor - want to watch it together?" And he'll shake his head and say, "No, not really. You can watch it without me." "Hey, This Singer is coming to town for a concert - I know you love her and have all her CDs - wanna go?" "No, I don't like her enough to pay for tickets to a concert." After a few hundred times over the years, I've stopped asking.

As such, he is very isolated and really only has me to talk to, and his interests have become very narrow: craft beer and sports. I don't drink beer, and I hate sports. I've gone to sporting events over the years because I know he likes them (in fact, we're traveling four hours this June to see his favorite baseball team play), and I've not frowned at all on his desire to go to beer festivals (although I'm not a fan of how inebriated he is when I pick him up at the end).

On the other hand, I have people I can talk to at work, at church, at home; and I have weekly/monthly social events I attend, and I'm much more connected with the kids as well.

But I can't do "life" for him. If he wants a new job, he needs be proactive and do the work to find one - not me. If he wants friends - he needs to engage with people and build relationships - I can't do that for him. If he wants to have a good relationship with the kids - he needs to spend time with them and not just one hour between getting home from work and going to the gym.

If he wants to fix the marriage - well, I'll be honest - I'm not sure if that can be fixed.

Let's say that tonight I instantly lose the weight that bothers him. I'll never feel like I've lost enough to please him. Is 10 pounds enough? 20? Would that suddenly cause him to realize he loves me more than ever? Is he that shallow? What happens if I slowly gain the weight back? Will he suddenly go back to not wanting to be with me?

What if I regain my sexual interest in him (bear in mind, I lost interest a few years ago when he announced he had no physical attraction for me and no longer wanted to have sex (this led to his starting an EA that almost turned physical before I discovered what was happening))? I'll always feel like he's just "settling" by being with me, because of what he has said in the past. I'll always feel like he is just going through the motions versus really WANTING to be intimate with me.

What if we are magically able to be vulnerable and open with each other starting tonight? There may be too much that was said in the past that can be forgiven, but not forgotten. Actions can be forgotten, but words cannot. They are pernicious and stick around for years and years. I can remember where we were standing, and what time of day it was, and the exact words he spoke when he said some pretty harsh words about me and our relationship.

Thoughts?

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post #103 of 147 (permalink) Old 04-26-2017, 02:32 PM
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Re: Looks like we're parting ways.

Hm, kinda tough.

So what makes him think that MC can fix this, when he has no physical attraction or desire to have sex with you? What you stated about him telling you that, then almost getting into a physical relationship with someone else, really bothers me. Not only because he may be prompted to cheat, but that its blatant that the lack of desire only pertains to YOU. He doesn't want to spend time with you, doesn't care to have a social life. What kind of life is that for YOU? I hope he does get on some meds and get some help, but even if he does, I hold little hope that suddenly he is going to have interest in and attraction to you. Can you live with him as a roommate only for the rest of your life? Can HE?

Life is too short to spend time with people who suck the happiness out of you.


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post #104 of 147 (permalink) Old 04-26-2017, 03:19 PM
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Re: Looks like we're parting ways.

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**Long post ahead - sorry!**

I would be willing to go to counseling, but only if he went to individual counseling for himself AND got on anti-depressants to help balance himself out.

You are a good person to give him a chance to work on himself and the marriage again, not many would.

He has no friends in the town where we live (in 10+ years we've lived here he's made NO EFFORT to make friends - no one that he can call and just say, "Wanna hang out and watch a game?"), no connections with anyone, and he has no hobbies to speak of. I've encouraged him MANY MANY MANY MANY MANY times, "Hey, why don't you call Guy A and see if he wants to come over and watch the game?" or "Hey, why not call Guy B and see if he wants to go grab a beer with you." But he does nothing, makes no attempts.

As such, he is very isolated and really only has me to talk to, and his interests have become very narrow
-

The above was me but the fear and shock of D helped me snap out of it, for me it was two fold it was partially lack of self esteem and confidence which had crept up over the years so did not feel like I had anything to really offer anyone and secondly I worked and wanted to be there for my family all the time but that also resulted in me probably smothering and looking needy and pathetic. My W constantly encouraged me to reach out to people and forced me to multiple social events but I just could not open up at the time, I m in a much better place in that regards have a couple of friends and started some new hobbies finally it started with one and I managed to branch out from there, one thing that has worked is I accepted any social invitation regardless of if i wanted to go or not and once I got out i actually really started to enjoy it again, was your husband social in the past?

I am still a little lonely and still have the urge to isolate myself occasionally but maybe try taking him to some of your social outlets and leaving him with some of the other husbands so he is forced to engage with people and then some follow up meetings after some smaller groups??? i am just throwing out ideas because I have been that lonely Isolated person and it is not nice and is hard to get past it but you obviously have to look after yourself first.

But I can't do "life" for him. - no you cannot at some point he has to take responsibility for himself

If he wants to fix the marriage - well, I'll be honest - I'm not sure if that can be fixed. - the fact you are willing to go and the fact he is willing (we think) to go then I would say it can as long as he works on his issues in IC which I hope he does even if you do still seperate, I would not wish loneliness or isolation on anyone.

What if we are magically able to be vulnerable and open with each other starting tonight? - I would be willing to do anything to have the opportunity to not be getting D and to have kept my family together and built a stronger relationship with my W hopefully if you want that is, he see's this as an opportunity to start again and makes it right so you both get happiness.

There may be too much that was said in the past that can be forgiven, but not forgotten. - That is something you have to decide for yourself, I have said some nasty things to people in the past and have said them while hurt to cause hurt which is an awful thing to do deflecting your pain onto someone else but I have done it and i regret it having never really meant the things i have said.

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post #105 of 147 (permalink) Old 04-26-2017, 07:10 PM
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Re: Looks like we're parting ways.

Ok I totally disagree with your notion that words said have long term power to them. Totally untrue - you empower them. I say **** all the time and forget it. It has no long term meaning - I respond to the world around me and I live and I change. What I said last year? Meh if the circumstances have changed.

Other than that I think you have your head screwed on straight


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