I know I need to leave, but can't bring my self to do so - Talk About Marriage
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 01-20-2017, 04:11 PM Thread Starter
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I know I need to leave, but can't bring my self to do so

Me and my fiance have been together almost 6 years now and the last several have been a constant string of fights, resentment, and distrust. Everyone around me sees it and knows it's over and I'm finally seeing that there right. I have been in denial, making excuses and telling my self we can fix it but it is pretty apparent that not only we can't, but she will sit in it and deal with it forever.*

We have sought counseling and while it helped in the short term nothing really changed. We are just two different people living together with one common interest. Our daughter. And this is the main reason it's so hard, among others
Guilt being one of the others.

She has given up alot to be with me, that's not to say that I haven't given up alot as well. But I feel if that I leave her I am abonding her with nothing and nowhere to go. While I know our relationship is toxic I still love her, she is still the mother of my child and I don't want her to hurt and struggle already more than this break up will do. She moved across country with me when our daughter was born because I knew I could make a better living out here, leaving behind her sick parents, her daughter who she gave the choice to stay or come with, and her brother.*

The reason I feel guilt about it is because she has disorders and I feel as though again I'm abandoning her in a time of need. She suffers from depression and anxiety. This is also where the resentment comes in she uses it as a crutch and an excuse to treat me like **** and to not do anything. I've tried so hard to be patient and understanding and to be there for her and help her with it but it seems that I'm the only one, she does nothing to help herself and at every turn i get hurt.*

I bring in the sole income, I do the grocery shopping, I manage the bills, I do at least half if not more of the household chores, I spend every minute I'm home taking care of our daughter, and I do my best to set aside one day a week for the two of us to go on a date or just spend the day together. Sometimes life happens and so we don't get that day but I do my best to set aside time for her.*
She does not work, spends her days in either a manic state where she cleans the house and everything else or in a depressive state where she sleeps all day and ignores the world and if you bother her she flys off the handle in a fit of rage. I feel and I can see that our daughter feels like we're walking on egg shells around the house to not upset her.*

We have talked about this before several times and there's two responses each time. Something I did or didn't do is the problem and I'm the bad guy, I don't do enough, or I don't appreciate her, or don't try to spend time with her and she is all alone. Or yes she understands but can't help it because it's her depression and shes sorry and will change. But nothing ever changes. And when it doesn't it's allways my fault for me not changing or putting in more effort.

Am I wrong? Am I an *******? Should I stay with her because she's depressed and it's not her fault? Should I read more books and articles about depression and anxeity because I still just don't get it?*
Or am I doing what's best for me and for my daughter to detach from this?*

??????Our daughter is probably the biggest reason this is so difficult. I've asked myself so many times if it weren't for our daughter would we still be together, and while I try to convince myself the answer is yes, the truth is no. I would have put an end to this year's ago. But then the questions come in, what happenes with her, do I keep residential custody does she get residential custody? If she does how will I cope with not seeing my daughter everyday. If I have her, how can I manage to work and afford care for my child while work, I don't make that much. If she stays with me regardless of price how can I trust who has her in their care I hear so many awful stories. If she has her how will she be under her care, to be Frank she often seems unstable and while I do I don't doubt that she loves her, the way she flys off the handle I don't know how good it would be for her.

???????I know that no one is happy living like this but is still isn't easy to do, trying to find the courage to pull trigger is the hardest thing.

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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 01-20-2017, 05:18 PM
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Re: I know I need to leave, but can't bring my self to do so

Get yourself into some serious counseling. Get your head away from her and your daughter and out into the real world and see what it's like to be truly happy.

I thought like you did for a few years before I finally got up the guts to leave my first husband. It's like ripping off a band aid. Once you do it, the worst part is over and you have the rest to deal with and a better life to make for yourself.
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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 01-20-2017, 10:21 PM
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Re: I know I need to leave, but can't bring my self to do so

Has she seen a doctor to help her learn to control this or does she take meds for it. Nobody can help her until she wants to help herself, you are not wrong in how you feel, and should not feel guilty as long as you feel you have tried everything you could to make it work.



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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 01-20-2017, 10:38 PM
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Re: I know I need to leave, but can't bring my self to do so

How often are you two intimate? Is the sex good?

I divorced with a 4 and 5 year old. Hardest thing I've ever had to do. But it was the right choice and 1 year later I'm the happiest I've ever been. Just gotta end it.
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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 01-21-2017, 12:53 PM Thread Starter
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And so it happened again. I was all ready to sit down with her and tell her how I felt and where I was at, and before I could open my mouth she tells me, that she knows she's been down lately and that she's sorry for being a ***** when shes in her moods, but she loves me and doesn't want to lose me. It's like she knew I was at my wit's end. And what did I do, I accepted her apologie and cooked dinner.

It's like a constant battle in my head. I flip flop back and forth because when it's good it's great, but when it's bad it's miserable. The problem is that it's more often bad then good.

She has sought treatment however it seemed to only be for the meds, and they help but it hasn't solved anything. Then our insurance switched and doesn't cover the cost of some of them, and without them it's bad. She did do talk therapy for a little bit but she stopped. If I am going to consider to keep trying she needs to get back to it.

Our sex life is speratic, we will be intimate every night sometime a few times a day for 3-5 days and then not at all for 1-3 weeks. Sometimes it's good and passionate, other times it seems to just be a means to a need.
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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 01-22-2017, 12:52 PM
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Re: I know I need to leave, but can't bring my self to do so

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She often seems unstable.
JPP, the two most common causes of emotional instability are a strong hormone change (e.g., pregnancy or postpartum) and drug abuse. If you can rule those out -- and you've not yet mentioned them as problems -- the two remaining common causes are BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder) and bipolar disorder. I therefore suggest that you familiarize yourself with the warning signs for both BPD and bipolar. Below, I will focus on those for BPD because (a) it is much more common, (b) you seem to be describing BPD red flags, and (c) even if your fiance had exhibited bipolar behavior in the past year, that would mean she has a 50% chance of also having BPD.

The behaviors you describe -- i.e., irrational anger, controlling behavior, easily triggered temper tantrums, black-white thinking, verbal abuse, and always being "The Victim" -- are some of the classic warning signs for BPD. Importantly, I'm not suggesting your fiance has full-blown BPD but, rather, that she may exhibit moderate to strong traits of it. I also caution that BPD is not something -- like chickenpox -- that a person either "has" or "doesn't have." Instead, it is a spectrum disorder, which means every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all BPD traits to some degree (albeit at a low level if the person is healthy).

At issue, then, is not whether your fiance exhibits BPD traits. Of course she does. We all do. Rather, at issue is whether she exhibits those traits at a strong and persistent level (i.e., is on the upper end of the BPD spectrum). Not having met her, I cannot answer that question.

I nonetheless believe you can spot any strong BPD warning signs that are present if you take a little time to learn which behaviors are on the list. They are easy to spot -- especially after you've been living together for six years -- because there is nothing subtle about behaviors such as always being "The Victim," lack of impulse control, and rapid event-triggered mood flips.

Quote:
Me and my fiance have been together almost 6 years now and the last several have been a constant string of fights, resentment, and distrust.
If your fiance really is a BPDer (i.e., exhibits strong and persistent BPD symptoms), it is highly unlikely you would have seen those symptoms only in the last three years. A BPDer typically is symptom-free only during the infatuation period because the infatuation convinces her that you are the nearly perfect man who has arrived to rescue her from unhappiness. In that way, the infatuation holds her two fears -- abandonment and engulfment -- at bay.

When the infatuation starts to evaporate, however, those two fears return and you will start triggering them. Indeed, it will be impossible for you to avoid triggering them. Hence, because the infatuation starts waning about six months -- perhaps even a year -- into the relationship, you should have seen her distrust and anger starting to show by the end of the first year. Granted, it is possible that the infatuation lasted two years but that is an unusual situation. I mention this because, if you really did see these issues occurring only after 3 years, I would be skeptical that you are describing a persistent pattern of BPD symptoms.

Quote:
We have sought counseling and while it helped in the short term nothing really changed.
If she is a BPDer or bipolar sufferer, marriage counseling likely will be a total waste of time until that underlying issue is treated in independent counseling. Although MCs usually are excellent at teaching communication skills, a person suffering from BPD and/or bipolar has issues that are far more serious.

Quote:
She suffers from depression and anxiety.
If your finance is a BPDer, that is to be expected. A 2008 study of nearly 35,000 American adults found that about 80% of the female BPDers suffer from a co-occurring mood disorder such as depression and anxiety. Although medication cannnot make a dent in BPD behaviors, meds nonetheless are prescribed to BPDers to alleviate those co-occurring depression and anxiety disorders.

Quote:
She does not work, spends her days in either a manic state where she cleans the house and everything else or in a depressive state where she sleeps all day and ignores the world.
If you are referring to an actual manic state, you are describing a warning sign for bipolar-1 disorder. People having that disorder experience moods swings between a manic state and a depressed state. If the mania is very mild, the disorder is said to be bipolar-2.

Quote:
If you bother her she flys off the handle in a fit of rage.
These event-triggered rages are one of the hallmarks of BPD. Because a BPDer carries enormous hurt and anger inside from childhood, you don't have to do a thing to CREATE the anger. Rather, you only have to say or do some minor thing that TRIGGERS the anger that is already there. This is why a BPDer can burst into a temper tantrum in ten seconds. In contrast, bipolar mood changes typically take a week or two to develop and even longer to disappear.

Quote:
I feel and I can see that our daughter feels like we're walking on egg shells around the house to not upset her.
If you and your daughter are living with a BPDer, "walking on eggshells" is exactly how you should be feeling. That's why the best-selling BPD book (targeted to the abused family members) is titled, Stop Walking on Eggshells.

Quote:
I'm the bad guy.... it's always my fault.
Again, if you're living with a BPDer, being blamed for every misfortune is exactly what you should expect. BPDers have very fragile, unstable egos and therefore don't have a strong sense of who they are. To the extent that a BPDer has any lasting self image at all, it is the false self identity of being "The Victim" -- always "The Victim." A BPDer therefore keeps a death grip on that false self image by frequently "validating" it by blaming the spouse for every mistake and every misfortune.

Quote:
Should I read more books and articles about depression and anxiety?
My advice is that you read, instead, about BPD and bipolar warning signs to see if most sound very familiar. And, because you have a daughter with this woman, I suggest you see a psychologist -- for a visit or two all by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you and your daughter are dealing with. This is important to know because, if your fiance really does have BPD or bipolar, there is some risk (perhaps 15% to 30%) that it could be passed on to your daughter. If your D is at risk, BPD symptoms likely would not be evident until the early teens and bipolar onset typically occurs in the mid-twenties.

When BPD is a strong possibility, it is important to consult with a psychologist who has never treated or seen your W. In that way, you are assured that he is ethically bound to protect YOUR best interests, not hers. I also suggest that, while you're looking for a good psych, you read my description of the major differences I've seen between the behaviors of bipolar sufferers (e.g., my foster son) and BPDers (e.g., my exW) at 12 Bipolar/BPD Differences.

If most of those BPD symptoms sound very familiar, I would suggest you also read my list of 18 BPD Warning Signs and my more detailed description of them in Maybe's Thread. If that description rings many bells, I would be glad to join Farsidejunky and the other respondents in discussing them with you. Take care, JPP.
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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 01-22-2017, 02:55 PM Thread Starter
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All of these symptoms you have discussed sound like her to a T. As far as the 3 years go, that is how old my daughter is and when she stopped working, i wouldn't say that i never noticed and signs until then it just became more pronounced. Before we both worked full time and our time spent together was limited.

As far as the drug abuse, she does have a history. In fact i have a post from September talking about it and how it was ready to leave then or check her into rehab. This is when we started counseling. When confronted she did admit to some use but not the abuse that i suspected and still have my suspissons about. While i beleive that she may still use from time to time, it doesn't seem to be how it was. I have just ignored it and chose to pick my battles. I told her back then that if it suspected she was abusing drugs again that i would present her with a drug test. Some of her behavior mimicks both BPD and signs of the suspected drug (meth). Perhaps it is not the case and it is BPD, perhaps drugs, perhaps both. I will continue to read more about BPD and try to be more aware of her habits.
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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 01-22-2017, 03:55 PM
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Re: I know I need to leave, but can't bring my self to do so

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Some of her behavior mimicks both BPD and signs of the suspected drug (meth). Perhaps it is not the case and it is BPD, perhaps drugs, perhaps both.
JPP, BPDers typically have the emotional development of a four year old, which is why they lack the emotional skills needed to regulate their own emotions. One result is that they lack impulse control. Not surprisingly, then, most BPDers abuse alcohol or other drugs. Conversely, a large share of alcohol and drug abusers exhibit strong BPD traits when they are drunk or high.

It therefore is difficult, when a person exhibits both BPD behavior and alcohol/drug abuse, to know the direction of causality. That is, it is difficult to know whether it is the BPD issue (lack of impulse control) that is causing the drug problem -- or, rather, the drug problem causing the BPD behavior to appear temporarily. This is one reason that, when a person is exhibiting both BPD behaviors and drug/alcohol problems, therapists are reluctant to evaluate that person for BPD until they have gotten free of the drug problem.

In view of this situation, the strongest indicator that you're seeing a BPD issue would be evidence that BPD traits were becoming strong in the early teens -- before the drug problem surfaced. If your fiance really does have a BPD issue, it almost certainly was firmly entrenched by the age of five and the symptoms would have started showing strongly by the early teens. You may want to inquire about her history of behavior during the teen years from her family members.
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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 01-22-2017, 04:16 PM
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Re: I know I need to leave, but can't bring my self to do so

I could never abandon my child no matter what. If her mum isnt well right now, how is you child going to be looked after properly? How would they manage financially? Where will they live? Honestly, I wish people would think carefully before bringing a child into a poor relationship. Have more and regular counseling and be the best husband and father you can.Treat her with love and respect. They are you responsibilities and priorities, not some new younger women who you think is the answer to your dreams(she isnt)
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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 01-22-2017, 04:40 PM
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Cool Re: I know I need to leave, but can't bring my self to do so

You need to get out of this mess for your very own peace of mind! You've fought the good fight and your resilience in doing so is to be heartily commended!

Having said that, get yourself to a good family lawyers office and start drawing up the paperwork on getting primary custody of your daughter!

Your fiance', despite her long history of bouts of depression, has absolutely no business being your daughters conservator!



"To love another person is to see the face of God!" - Jean Valjean from Les Miserables

My Story! http://talkaboutmarriage.com/going-t...andonment.html
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post #11 of 11 (permalink) Old 01-22-2017, 05:04 PM Thread Starter
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Arbitrator, while i understand and agree, it seems the hardest thing and even the wrong thing. Despite everything, like Dianna above said, i feel a sense of responsibility to her. How can i after convincing her that what's best is that we move away leaving her daughter behind (even though this is something she agreed to and her daughter had a choice to come) now turn around and take our daughter from her, putting her in a position again to leave one or both daughters. Her options are to stay here and have joint custody or to go back to Jersey and be with her other daughter. I feel guilty for putting her in that position again, this time on her own. How do i get past that guilt. She has also made suicidal comments and that is another concern would this be the thing to push her over the edge and actually carry through with her comments.
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