From your experience, what's happening here? - Page 3 - Talk About Marriage
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post #31 of 41 (permalink) Old 02-10-2017, 07:34 AM
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Re: From your experience, what's happening here?

This is so sad and so hard Zyria, but at least you know where you stand now instead of years and years to come of bending over backwards to try and make things the way they should be, whilst all the time your H is effectively an unknown sabateur.

It's so painful but try and think of it as the beginning of the end of the pain and if you cannot manage to move forward in leaps and bounds, then inch forward, but do keep moving.

I think it's important you take good care of yourself right now so try and eat, drink and exercise right and in turn this should help you to support yourself emotionally. I don't know if you have anyone close you can confide in right now but, especially if not, try and be your own best friend, and do what's right for you. Be kind to yourself, and it's time to be at least somewhat selfish i would say.

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post #32 of 41 (permalink) Old 02-10-2017, 08:05 AM
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Re: From your experience, what's happening here?

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I agree--once people no longer feel emotionally safe in their relationship (which neither of you do right now), they start to build walls to protect themselves. Once those go up, it's very hard to bring them down again... but a good therapist can help with that.

You also need a therapist to work on some very problematic communication issues--which is that the two of you are pretty much not communicating at all, especially your husband. His resentment built up over the years because there were things about the relationship that bothered him, and instead of him coming to you and working out those issues, he kept it to himself and it built up and accumulated over time, so now it's this huge thing.

From what little you've posted, I'm guessing that your husband suffers from Nice Guy Syndrome. He didn't want to rock the boat, so he kept his complaints to himself and handed the reins of the relationship over to you. Like a lot of men, he misunderstood the "happy wife, happy life" adage (or he doesn't understand what really makes a woman happy). He voluntarily gave you all the power in the relationship, and now he resents you--for something of his own doing.

If you both want it, I think the marriage can be saved. I don't think either of you is too far gone. BUT it is going to take some real work, he's going to have to be open to seeing his own flaws and make some big changes, and the dynamics of the relationship will likely change. You'll never again have the marriage you had when you were both happy--but if you work at it, you may find something even better.

Please share. I'm being serious. Knowledge I seek.
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post #33 of 41 (permalink) Old 02-10-2017, 08:15 AM
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Re: From your experience, what's happening here?

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Please share. I'm being serious. Knowledge I seek.
Share what? If you want more info on Nice Guy Syndrome, click on the link. It's a free e-book, and there is LOTS of knowledge in there.

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post #34 of 41 (permalink) Old 02-10-2017, 05:06 PM
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Re: From your experience, what's happening here?

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Share what? If you want more info on Nice Guy Syndrome, click on the link. It's a free e-book, and there is LOTS of knowledge in there.

Share what really makes a woman happy. I've read through NMMNG but I'll have to re-read.
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post #35 of 41 (permalink) Old 02-10-2017, 05:09 PM
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Re: From your experience, what's happening here?

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Share what really makes a woman happy. I've read through NMMNG but I'll have to re-read.
I'll PM you. I don't want to jack Zyria's thread with our own side discussion. Deal?

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post #36 of 41 (permalink) Old 02-12-2017, 09:27 AM
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Re: From your experience, what's happening here?

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You know what? Then he can't complain that you're the dominant one in the relationship. It's his own fvcking fault for not taking charge. He just wants to play victim.

Men (people) like this drive me crazy!!! They want to be in charge/dominant, but they are PA and won't make an effort in taking the lead.

Your husband needs to read Married Man Sex Love Primer. The author, Athol Kay, is a total scum-of-the-earth PUA douche canoe, but this book is good, and all men should read it.

ETA: I actually read a great article about how many women find themselves being the reminder-er and driver of all things. It's part of the unrecognized emotional work that women put into their lives and relationships on a daily basis, and which mostly goes unrecognized and unacknowledged by the men in their lives. If I can find it, I'll post it.
OR, is this a relationship where when the husband does start making decisions, doing things, and proceeds to get nothin but crap in return.

"Why did you load the dishwasher that way?"
"Why did you put the baby in the crib before closing the diaper pail?"

There are people that seem to thrive on conflict, picking apart everything there spouse does.

They need to realize that there is NOT just one way of doing things. There can be multiple paths to a successful outcome.

The husband may be a nice guy, He does not want to hurt her feelings by telling her "Shut yer yap and do it yourself if you don't like how I do things."

NOT saying you are this way OP, but if your husband were to start being more independent and taking charge, would you be happy, or happy to start b!tch!n about how he does things??
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post #37 of 41 (permalink) Old 02-12-2017, 09:33 AM
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Re: From your experience, what's happening here?

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I do appreciate everyone's posts. Forgive me that I had somehow missed the last two and and now reading your guidance closely.

I've been really trying hard guys....being more intimate and making an effort to do more of the family activities he enjoys. But even though things seem happier and fun, I am still not feeling him really want to be my friend again. I think I may never see a bold action taken on his part to make this work. For example, still no counselor appointment, even after I shared my disappointment about it not being a priority. I think he thinks everything is better because we are physically close. He doesn't know I've called two attorneys.

I'm just really hurt, but want to be careful not to take any legal actions that I know would devastate our family and end in a result I might forever regret.
Do YOU know the order of your husband's 5 love languages? If Intimacy is at the top, YAAAA, he's going to think things are going better!!! Who's playing the martyr now???? Talk about manipulative! I will give him sex & talk to the attorneys on the down low.

Don't get me wrong, your husband should know your 5 love language order as well. It's a two way street!

Buy or I think it may even be free on the net somewhere - No More Mr. Nice Guy. Give it to your husband.

The Happy Wife Happy Life mantra has f@cked up your husband. I was there also. Tried to do everything to make wife happy.

Wasn't until I finally read the book & realized "I can't make her happy, that has to come from within herself", that life got better.

That, and realizing my wife is one that needed to hear "paraphrased" Ya don't like it, there's the door!.

Why do some women need to be told that before they realize life's not so bad???

Last edited by FrazzledSadHusband; 02-12-2017 at 09:46 AM.
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post #38 of 41 (permalink) Old 02-12-2017, 01:53 PM
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Re: From your experience, what's happening here?

Zyria - I understand your wish for your husband to call the counselor. My wife was very resistant when I told her to call. It wasn't until I said "You need to show me you value our marriage by making an appointment" that she called.

I also to an extent understand talking to attorneys. When I found out my wife had talked to counselor about everything BUT the reason she needed to (high school rape), then I told her "Talk about what happened to you or I will file".

I got crabby earlier because you are sending mixed signals to your husband. He's probably very confused right now.

Let me give you something to print out (without editing) and give to your husband,

To whom it may concern:

Your wife is unhappy. You need to show that you value your marriage by calling a counselor and setup counseling for BOTH of you.

Now, this is not a total "Hang the Husband out to dry" meeting. Before this meeting, you need to read the book "No More Mr. Nice Guy" . Because you probably want nothing more than your wife to be happy, but by always putting her needs, and your kids first, it is affecting how you interact with your wife.

Your wife will have requests for you. Make her be specific. Don't let her say "I wish he would do more housework" or "I wish he would help more with the kids". These are non-specific terms that allow the bar to be ever raised and you won't be doing enough, EVER.

Also, if there are things she does, such as always calls you to pick up items on the way home, yet she never does the same because she is "too busy", then bring it up.

Your wife has lost respect for you, you can't NICE that back. If she never takes a shower with you or never lets you see her naked with the lights on, bring it up.

Mr. to whom it concerns, if you & I were sitting at a bar I would tell you to do the following.

1. Read No More Mr. Nice Guy
2. Knock over that pedestal that your wife is on. Rainbows & Unicorns do not emanate from her arse!
3. Make sure you take care of the kids, take care of yourself.
4. Own your own sh!t. Deal with your issues.
5. Hit the gym, be the best lookin you YOU can be.
6. Read Married Man Sex Life Primer. Google the term sh!t test.
7. Your marriage comes FIRST, before the kids. 18 years from now, the kids will be gone.
8. Take your wife on dates, spend time with her.
9. Hold her accountable. If you bust your arse meeting her needs, and she gives you continual refusal of intimacy, let her know that she has her own sh!t to deal with.

Mr., what do you have to lose? She doesn't respect you now, and is ripe for some POS sleazeball to talk his way into her panties.

Either you will have a better marriage where both of you are happy, OR, you will be in better shape mentally and physically to meet someone new.

Best of luck!


Added - well , my browser wasn't showing the posts where it sounds like this marriage is over. I'll leave posts for anyone that wants to comment.

Last edited by FrazzledSadHusband; 02-12-2017 at 07:41 PM.
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post #39 of 41 (permalink) Old 02-12-2017, 07:19 PM
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Re: From your experience, what's happening here?

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Originally Posted by FeministInPink View Post
You know what? Then he can't complain that you're the dominant one in the relationship. It's his own fvcking fault for not taking charge. He just wants to play victim.

Men (people) like this drive me crazy!!! They want to be in charge/dominant, but they are PA and won't make an effort in taking the lead.

Your husband needs to read Married Man Sex Love Primer. The author, Athol Kay, is a total scum-of-the-earth PUA douche canoe, but this book is good, and all men should read it.

ETA: I actually read a great article about how many women find themselves being the reminder-er and driver of all things. It's part of the unrecognized emotional work that women put into their lives and relationships on a daily basis, and which mostly goes unrecognized and unacknowledged by the men in their lives. If I can find it, I'll post it.


FIP, did you post that article, the gist resonates with me and I would like to read it. The sad thing is once the female stops doing the emotional work (or for some reason is unable to) the whole thing falls apart, been there done that.
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post #40 of 41 (permalink) Old 02-12-2017, 11:51 PM
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Re: From your experience, what's happening here?

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[/B]

FIP, did you post that article, the gist resonates with me and I would like to read it. The sad thing is once the female stops doing the emotional work (or for some reason is unable to) the whole thing falls apart, been there done that.
I never did go back and look for the exact article that I read, I've been pretty busy as of late. I thought I might still have it open in my phone browser, but I checked and I do not.

However, this google search has a lot of articles on the subject.

It doesn't bring up the exact article that I read, which was more of a personal account, showing the abstract theory in action in her personal experience. The author of the article I read discussed how she is the one who remembers/notices all the little things that keep their home and family running smoothly, things that her husband simply doesn't notice, like running low on toilet paper, or kids' school stuff (like permission slips, pajama day, "don't pack peanuts in your kids lunch because this kid is allergic," recital is on this day sort of things). She remembers what kind of peanut butter the kids (and her husband) will or won't eat, that sort of thing. It's not a "let's bash men!" article, it's more about recognizing the different roles that men and women take on in relationships, and because her husband doesn't notice these things, all her effort in this area goes unrecognized and unappreciated, typically, and how she came to terms with that fact, and how she made her husband more aware of all those things that she does.

(ETA: So her article doesn't exactly address what I've mentioned in the above paragraph; I may have read a follow up or an additional article/post by someone else, and conflated the two. My apologies.)

I did find this blog post, which is similar, but it's still not the one that I read previously: Love That Max : I am the person who notices we are running out of toilet paper, and I rock: A Mother's Day tribute to moms everywhere

EDIT: (Not really an edit, but I found the original article while I was writing this post!) The original article I read, which is a more academic/scholarly reflection on the above post, can be found here: Gender Gap: The Invisible Workload That Drags Women Down | Money


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post #41 of 41 (permalink) Old 02-12-2017, 11:58 PM
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Re: From your experience, what's happening here?

You can see a more complex analysis of the problem of emotional labor here: "Where's My Cut?": On Unpaid Emotional Labor - The Toast - The Toast

And for personal anecdotes of emotional labor, visit: Metafilter's Thread On Emotional Labor, in PDF Form | The Mary Sue

ETA: The PDF is really fascinating.

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Last edited by FeministInPink; 02-13-2017 at 12:03 AM.
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