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post #16 of 37 (permalink) Old 02-21-2017, 05:57 PM Thread Starter
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Definitely could be I certainly have some stuff from child hood that could explain how I handle situations today and where my codependency could stem from. My mother was not ready to be a mother and essentially abandoned me and my sister only to come into our lives when we were a little older and even then we only saw her during the summers. My father was an addict growing up and I spent much of my child hood either alone with my sister while my father was out using or sitting in NA rooms while he was trying to get clean. He has since become clean and done his best to make amends over the years but there was certainly some trauma that occured. I've seen someone about it all before but it was a long time ago and not for very long.

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post #17 of 37 (permalink) Old 02-21-2017, 06:10 PM
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Re: Trying to leave, she keeps seducing me, and I keep letting her

Can you detach if you finally understand she will NEVER get better, only worse? You're wishing on a unicorn; her being a decent partner is just as unrealistic. Save yourself, and save your child from having to grow up 100% in that environment.
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post #18 of 37 (permalink) Old 02-21-2017, 08:02 PM
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Re: Trying to leave, she keeps seducing me, and I keep letting her

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Definitely could be I certainly have some stuff from child hood that could explain how I handle situations today and where my codependency could stem from. My mother was not ready to be a mother and essentially abandoned me and my sister only to come into our lives when we were a little older and even then we only saw her during the summers. My father was an addict growing up and I spent much of my child hood either alone with my sister while my father was out using or sitting in NA rooms while he was trying to get clean. He has since become clean and done his best to make amends over the years but there was certainly some trauma that occured. I've seen someone about it all before but it was a long time ago and not for very long.
This explains why you're drawn/attracted to her--her erratic behavior reflects what was "normal" in your childhood--and your ability to form an emotionally healthy attachment was compromised.

You say you were in IC for a little bit, a long time ago. I would urge you to go back and really work through all this. People who grow up in unstable environments tend to think they're ok when they're really not. (I'll raise my hand to be counted in this one.)

And ditch this woman. She is all kinds of wrong for you.

~Happily un-married since December 9, 2013~
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post #19 of 37 (permalink) Old 02-21-2017, 08:03 PM
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Re: Trying to leave, she keeps seducing me, and I keep letting her

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So I say I have a headahce I am probably just going to come home and go to bed, I was not lying I really did have a headahce. But also wanted to avoid any intamacy until I figured out where my head is at. When I got home she started a shower for me to help with the headahce, I didn't decline took a hot shower and went and laid down. She came in and started massaging my back and neck, and worked her way down to my butt, my legs, my feet. She then put a pillow under waist and thought the massage was going to continue. She then proceeded to lick my butthole. I have to say it was nice (don't knock it till you try it) (I should also say this is new, never done this before in 6 years) I knew I should stop it but I didn't and it continued, I figured it would be quick but no, she went to town damn near bringing me to orgasm. Then it was the balls that she also spend a considerable amount of time on and then again with the blowjob, a long teasing blowjob not a quick shoot your load and done one. I haven't been that relaxed in a long time and swiftly fell asleep. I woke up two hours later to her waking up my manhood and then riding me, again I fell back to sleep.
I would suspect she's trying to get pregnant to entrap you again. She feels you slipping away, and she's pulling out her big guns to reel you back in again.

Do whatever you have to do to defend yourself. For now, I suggest a lock on your bedroom door.
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post #20 of 37 (permalink) Old 02-21-2017, 08:10 PM Thread Starter
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I may suspect that too, but she had her tubes tied after we had our daughter.
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post #21 of 37 (permalink) Old 02-21-2017, 08:56 PM
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Re: Trying to leave, she keeps seducing me, and I keep letting her

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Uptown, your advice and suggestions and shared experiences have been very helpful in helping me to understand what I am dealing with. It doesn't make it any easier to detach though.
JPP, as a man who took 15 years to detach from a BPDer -- far longer than the 6 years you've been trying -- I can tell you that walking away is a very painful process for excessive caregivers like us. In addition to the childhood issues you mentioned, there are several other reasons for it being so difficult to leave.

The primary reason is that walking away from a BPDer feels like you are walking away from a sick young child who, despite her periodic tantrums, dearly loves you. Because a BPDer typically has the emotional development of a four year old, you likely will feel like you're abandoning a vulnerable young child. Although this feeling is very real and painful, you don't have to believe it.

It is simply not true that you are abandoning a child. Instead, you are allowing an emotionally stunted adult to confront the logical consequences of her own bad behaviors. If you choose instead to keep sheltering her from those consequences, your enabling behavior will harm her -- by destroying all incentives she has to confront her issues and learn how to manage them.

A second reason is that, whereas narcissists and sociopaths manipulate you with deliberate lies, a BPDer usually believes most of the outrageous allegations coming out of her mouth. Hence, because you know she loves you and truly believes most of her allegations, you mistakenly assume that -- if you can only figure out what YOU are doing wrong -- you can restore the R/S to that wonderful bliss and passion you saw at the beginning.

A third reason -- especially for excessive caregivers like you and me -- is that a BPDer relationship gives us an opportunity to experience the intoxicating feeling of being the nearly perfect man who has ridden in on a white horse to save the maiden from unhappiness. Our desire to be needed far exceeds our desire to be loved. We therefore are strongly attracted to a child-like woman who can project her vulnerability across a crowded room. Indeed, if you ever see a Marilyn Monroe movie, you will see a BPDer who could project enormous vulnerability right off of a flat movie screen.

A fourth reason is that, because a BPDer so completely mirrors the best aspects of your personality and your preferences, you both mistakenly believe that you have found your "soulmate." Hence, even when you later start to question that intense feeling intellectually, you still have to fight against the intense feeling that she is somehow perfect for you -- and destined to be your mate.
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post #22 of 37 (permalink) Old 02-22-2017, 07:17 AM
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Re: Trying to leave, she keeps seducing me, and I keep letting her

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I am 90% sure she has BPD... she is treated for depression, anxiety, and ADHD.
JPP, as I noted four weeks ago, 80% of female BPDers suffer from co-occurring mood disorders such as depression and anxiety. You didn't mention ADHD at that time, however, so I did not comment on it earlier. Dr. Robert Friedel -- author of BPD Demystified -- reports that "ADHD occurs in at least 25% of people with borderline disorder; 5 times more often than it does in the general population." See BPD Demystified.

Moreover, some members of the psychiatric community suspect that BPD and adult ADHD may not be two distinct disorders but, rather, may represent -- at least for some patients -- two dimensions of one disorder. See, e.g., 2006 Study.
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post #23 of 37 (permalink) Old 02-22-2017, 08:15 PM Thread Starter
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Well last night we sat down and really talked for the first time about where we were at after this last fight. I heard he side and told her mine. She told me where she is at with us and I instead of sticking to my guns and making the split agrees to give a go at working on our relationship, again...

She says that this whole fight was blown up and taken out of context and while she admitted to taking some jabs says it was out of fear that not only was I leaving but was going to just toss her on the street and take our daughter away from her. She says that because the conversation was had through text and because I was at work and read them in a group instead of individualy that her words were misconstrued and that she wasn't saying she was leaving me. possible. She also said like it was like I was lying in wait for her to pick a fight any fight to have the opportunity to blow up and let it all out. Again very possible.

Since the second or third time she has threatened to leave I have been living with this feeling like I'm just waiting for the other shoe to drop. When we were in couples counseling several months back I even brought this up. I told her that at a certain point if the threats of leaving continued that I was going to leave. So while my response wasn't completely unexpected she maintains that she wasn't threatening to leave and was simply saying she needed to get away from the house because between our toddler, our dogs and this foster dog she was feeling overwhelmed but that it wasn't about me or our relationship.

She also said that the suicide talk wasn't serious and wasn't about me or our relationship. She said it was made because the thought of losing another child would be too much and she really thought I was going to take her from her. That if I did want to end it not to not only because I was afraid she was going to kill herself.

She also said that that our sexual relations the past few days were because she felt bad because she knew she flew off the handle and she was appologizing not because she was trying to manipulate me.

The funny thing is I never brought these things up in our conversations, that I thought she was trying to manipulate, she brought it up as if she knew I was thinking it. Is that manipulation unto itself?

We end the night by agreeing to continue to work on our relationship but sitting down and having a talk about what each of us need, want, and expect from our relationship, each other, and ourselves.
We discussed therepy individualy and maybe couples as well, and what each of us would try to accomplish there, among other things, honesty,trust, respect, etc

Today was her first appointment. Today I also found a home for this dog who apparently started this whole fight. I took the dog and on my way back said that the appointment was taking longer then expected because of intake and Lylah was being crabby in the office and asked me to pick her up. I did. As I leave directly next door is a Sonic and my daughter asked for fries so I said sure and swung around to the drive through. There busy and I am waiting for about 5-10 minutes. As I'm sitting in the drive through I see her leave and pull out onto the street. I found this curious as I had just picked my daughter up.

I messaged her and asked her how long she thought she would be. She replies probably like 10 minutes wait and then 30 minutes with the Dr. I replied back, I see. She inquires about my response and says that after that she needs to go fill her meds. Now I know she doesn't know many people in town here so I can only think of one place she would go so I take a drive by and sure enough she was there. Now idk what of any suspicion she would be doing at her girlfriends house but the fact that she blantantly lies the night after we discussed all of this, honesty being one of the big issues.

I didn't call her out on it right away I waited until around the time she was due to be coming home and messaged. I wish I had waited to hear what she said about the Dr and if she had gone anywhere first but I didn't and called her out on it. She claimed that there must be a lag in the phones and that they released her right after I left. Then when I pointed out that makes no sense she said she must have just been confused. She is running in circles before I finally just say OK and drop it.

So now I'm back to square. I caught her In a lie, then she lied about lieing despite the fact that I caught her. Why? What is she doing at her girlfriends house that she needs to lie about being over there. Someone above said she is playing me like a fiddle, really seems to be the case.

But then why still after all this am I here? Why didn't I call it quits the other night before she seduced me, and then again when we had our talk, and especially now. Why can't I get the words out of my mouth. I don't trust you, this relationship Is toxic and I need to seperated from it. Someone above also asked what is wrong with me? I don't know.
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post #24 of 37 (permalink) Old 02-22-2017, 08:38 PM
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Re: Trying to leave, she keeps seducing me, and I keep letting her

So did she have scripts to fill?

It is hard when you care about someone, leaving no matter what kind of relationship it is is hard. But you really have to do what makes you happy.

Did she find out you post here you think? She is manipulating you with lying and sex, she is telling you what you want to hear so you won't leave.



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post #25 of 37 (permalink) Old 02-23-2017, 08:49 AM Thread Starter
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Well she said she stopped by the pharmacy to fill them they should be ready today so I guess we will see when I stop by to pick them up for her on my way home from work.

It is possible she found my posts here, although not likely. She is not very tech savvy that she could see my phone history from a computer, she never had my phone that I'm aware of nor know my pin for my phone.

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post #26 of 37 (permalink) Old 02-23-2017, 08:56 AM
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Re: Trying to leave, she keeps seducing me, and I keep letting her

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Well last night we sat down and really talked for the first time about where we were at after this last fight. I heard he side and told her mine. She told me where she is at with us and I instead of sticking to my guns and making the split agrees to give a go at working on our relationship, again...

She says that this whole fight was blown up and taken out of context and while she admitted to taking some jabs says it was out of fear that not only was I leaving but was going to just toss her on the street and take our daughter away from her. She says that because the conversation was had through text and because I was at work and read them in a group instead of individualy that her words were misconstrued and that she wasn't saying she was leaving me. possible. She also said like it was like I was lying in wait for her to pick a fight any fight to have the opportunity to blow up and let it all out. Again very possible.

Since the second or third time she has threatened to leave I have been living with this feeling like I'm just waiting for the other shoe to drop. When we were in couples counseling several months back I even brought this up. I told her that at a certain point if the threats of leaving continued that I was going to leave. So while my response wasn't completely unexpected she maintains that she wasn't threatening to leave and was simply saying she needed to get away from the house because between our toddler, our dogs and this foster dog she was feeling overwhelmed but that it wasn't about me or our relationship.

She also said that the suicide talk wasn't serious and wasn't about me or our relationship. She said it was made because the thought of losing another child would be too much and she really thought I was going to take her from her. That if I did want to end it not to not only because I was afraid she was going to kill herself.

She also said that that our sexual relations the past few days were because she felt bad because she knew she flew off the handle and she was appologizing not because she was trying to manipulate me.

The funny thing is I never brought these things up in our conversations, that I thought she was trying to manipulate, she brought it up as if she knew I was thinking it. Is that manipulation unto itself?

We end the night by agreeing to continue to work on our relationship but sitting down and having a talk about what each of us need, want, and expect from our relationship, each other, and ourselves.
We discussed therepy individualy and maybe couples as well, and what each of us would try to accomplish there, among other things, honesty,trust, respect, etc

Today was her first appointment. Today I also found a home for this dog who apparently started this whole fight. I took the dog and on my way back said that the appointment was taking longer then expected because of intake and Lylah was being crabby in the office and asked me to pick her up. I did. As I leave directly next door is a Sonic and my daughter asked for fries so I said sure and swung around to the drive through. There busy and I am waiting for about 5-10 minutes. As I'm sitting in the drive through I see her leave and pull out onto the street. I found this curious as I had just picked my daughter up.

I messaged her and asked her how long she thought she would be. She replies probably like 10 minutes wait and then 30 minutes with the Dr. I replied back, I see. She inquires about my response and says that after that she needs to go fill her meds. Now I know she doesn't know many people in town here so I can only think of one place she would go so I take a drive by and sure enough she was there. Now idk what of any suspicion she would be doing at her girlfriends house but the fact that she blantantly lies the night after we discussed all of this, honesty being one of the big issues.

I didn't call her out on it right away I waited until around the time she was due to be coming home and messaged. I wish I had waited to hear what she said about the Dr and if she had gone anywhere first but I didn't and called her out on it. She claimed that there must be a lag in the phones and that they released her right after I left. Then when I pointed out that makes no sense she said she must have just been confused. She is running in circles before I finally just say OK and drop it.

So now I'm back to square. I caught her In a lie, then she lied about lieing despite the fact that I caught her. Why? What is she doing at her girlfriends house that she needs to lie about being over there. Someone above said she is playing me like a fiddle, really seems to be the case.

But then why still after all this am I here? Why didn't I call it quits the other night before she seduced me, and then again when we had our talk, and especially now. Why can't I get the words out of my mouth. I don't trust you, this relationship Is toxic and I need to seperated from it. Someone above also asked what is wrong with me? I don't know.
You need a therapist's help in extracting you from this. I get how difficult it is. They are master manipulators, these BPDers. You keep falling for it. She's worn you down and knows how to play you. For the sake of your child, GET OUT. Please.
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post #27 of 37 (permalink) Old 02-23-2017, 06:49 PM Thread Starter
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@Uptown, this was from one of your messages a few weeks ago.

"Granted, BPDers will -- on rare occasions -- be so miserable in a melt down that they will experience a "moment of clarity." At that time, they will have some self awareness to the point of being able to see that they are undermining the marriage and treating you terribly. But, sadly, that clarity will be gone in a day or two and anything they understood or agreed to will be totally out of mine. In my experience, it will have no lasting effect whatsoever."

Well I just got home from work and she was happy in a good mood and ready to go out. To answer someone else's question above, to pick a script she had indeed dropped off last night for valium. Anyway she said that she was talking with a friend and had an apifiny and understood how I felt. Explained in pretty accurate detail how I've been feeling and said that she now knowing she inflicted that upon me made her feel it too. She also understands now why I may have wanted to leave her but is glad that we are going to work at it. She said if you ever feel like this again and we need to end this she understands.

Hoping your experiences don't ring true for me, but thank you for sharing that as I'll be prepared if they do.
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post #28 of 37 (permalink) Old 02-23-2017, 07:10 PM
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Re: Trying to leave, she keeps seducing me, and I keep letting her

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Hoping your experiences don't ring true for me, but thank you for sharing that as I'll be prepared if they do.
Likewise, JPP, I hope my experience does not apply to your situation. I wouldn't wish strong BPD traits on my worst enemy. I wish you both the best.
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post #29 of 37 (permalink) Old 02-24-2017, 09:04 AM
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Re: Trying to leave, she keeps seducing me, and I keep letting her

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@Uptown, this was from one of your messages a few weeks ago.

"Granted, BPDers will -- on rare occasions -- be so miserable in a melt down that they will experience a "moment of clarity." At that time, they will have some self awareness to the point of being able to see that they are undermining the marriage and treating you terribly. But, sadly, that clarity will be gone in a day or two and anything they understood or agreed to will be totally out of mine. In my experience, it will have no lasting effect whatsoever."

Well I just got home from work and she was happy in a good mood and ready to go out. To answer someone else's question above, to pick a script she had indeed dropped off last night for valium. Anyway she said that she was talking with a friend and had an apifiny and understood how I felt. Explained in pretty accurate detail how I've been feeling and said that she now knowing she inflicted that upon me made her feel it too. She also understands now why I may have wanted to leave her but is glad that we are going to work at it. She said if you ever feel like this again and we need to end this she understands.

Hoping your experiences don't ring true for me, but thank you for sharing that as I'll be prepared if they do.
You're in denial, my friend.
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post #30 of 37 (permalink) Old 03-29-2017, 10:24 PM
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Re: Trying to leave, she keeps seducing me, and I keep letting her

Wonder what her side of the story is. Maybe she thinks you have your own issues like drinking or looking at young girls that might end you up.in jail. There is always two or more sides. There has been a lot of great advice given to bad nobody is going to give her some and you will prob. Blindesire her and try and take her kids .....smh D.O some people never change

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