Trying to leave, she keeps seducing me, and I keep letting her - Talk About Marriage
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post #1 of 37 (permalink) Old 02-20-2017, 05:20 PM Thread Starter
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Trying to leave, she keeps seducing me, and I keep letting her

I tried posting this in men's clubhouse but kept getting pop ups that kicked me off so here I am. There is some sexually explicit context in this post as an FYI before reading.

Me and my fiance have been together for around 6 years now with many bumps in the road. Most of which having to do with untreated or under treated mental disorders.

So the story goes like this. Every few months she has a mood swings or breakdown and threatens to leave me. Me not wanting to lose her or split our family up apologize for most of the time nothing or issues that are hers not mine.

We have gone to councling discussed this among other things, it will get better for a period of time and then eventually go right back to the same thing.

It happened again the other day and this time she did not get the response she was looking for. I told her that I love her but am not happy and cannot continue to live like this and that i too thought it best if we seperated. She continued by attacking me some more before finally retreating.

We spent a few nights in seperated rooms not speaking much unless it had to do with our daughter. In my head it's over were seperated and when things cool down we will discuss custody. She has a trip planned next month to go back home to see family and it was discussed that my daughter would stay with me but she would not be returning.

I come home from work the other day and she is acting as if nothing is wrong, trying to start conversations but I just continued with what I was doing. She said that her plan was to visit family with our daughter and then bring her back to me, leave and go swallow a bottle of pills and a bottle of liquor. I didn't ignore her but also didn't feed in to it and kept about with tending to the house she had been ignoring for several days, dishes, laundry, and taking care of our child. After getting our daughter to bed I retreated into my room.

She then texted me and asked if we were going to talk. I replied no, I need some time to think. 10 minutes later she asked if I had enough time to think and if we could talk now. Again I said no, I have been working since all this happened and need some time to process. She then came into my room anyway in tears apologizing for lashing out and over reacting and saying how she loves me and wants to work things out, which quickly led to her sucking my penis. I briefly stopped her but then she went back at it and I let it happen. She slept in my bed that night and I left early for work without seeing her in the morning.

That day she is sending me messages throughout the day checking in, something she hasn't done in years. Again I acknowledged her but didn't really talk back much either. We are short a manager at my work right now so I have been working long hours recently and wasn't due home until late. Towards the end of my night she started sending me sexy pictures. I am still on the fence about weather I want to continue this relationship because again, this is not the first time and I have a suspicion it won't be the last time that acts irrationally and uses me as her doormat.

So I say I have a headahce I am probably just going to come home and go to bed, I was not lying I really did have a headahce. But also wanted to avoid any intamacy until I figured out where my head is at. When I got home she started a shower for me to help with the headahce, I didn't decline took a hot shower and went and laid down. She came in and started massaging my back and neck, and worked her way down to my butt, my legs, my feet. She then put a pillow under waist and thought the massage was going to continue. She then proceeded to lick my butthole. I have to say it was nice (don't knock it till you try it) (I should also say this is new, never done this before in 6 years) I knew I should stop it but I didn't and it continued, I figured it would be quick but no, she went to town damn near bringing me to orgasm. Then it was the balls that she also spend a considerable amount of time on and then again with the blowjob, a long teasing blowjob not a quick shoot your load and done one. I haven't been that relaxed in a long time and swiftly fell asleep. I woke up two hours later to her waking up my manhood and then riding me, again I fell back to sleep.

This morning I woke up with my daughter like I do most mornings that I don't open, and she also got up, out of character for her usually she will sleep for hours almost until I'm ready to leave for work. She started talking about plans for the future as if we hadn't just been sleeping in seperated rooms 3 days prior. She then started talking about some article she read and how she was going to start using it's practicing which are essentially like a housewifes guide from the 1950's designed to live to serve her husband.

If you've some of my other posts you would understand why my head is spinning right now. This all sounds great, clean house, chipper and put together wife, happy children, dinner every night, blowjobs everynight. I assume she has just come to the realization that I am not going to just roll over and take her **** forever and this is a desperate attempt to keep me from leaving much as the suicide threat was, but how long until she goes back to her old ways. And do I want to be manipulated by her suicidal threats and overly seductive advances.

To be clear these are not things I expect out of a relationship, in fact, and again if you have seen my other posts you would know that typically I do at least half of not more of the household chores, spend almost every waking non working hour with my child, cook most of the meals for the household and bring in the sole income.

I don't know that I'm looking for advice or just venting and needing to share my experience because I don't feel comfortable sharing this story with people who know her as if we do stay together I don't want them to see her in a different light. However if anyone does have any advice I am open to hearing it.

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post #2 of 37 (permalink) Old 02-20-2017, 05:35 PM
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Re: Trying to leave, she keeps seducing me, and I keep letting her

She's a major drama queen, and yes you know she is
manipulating you with sex.

you know it, and yet you let it go on. Dont.

she's trying to play you like a fiddle and so far it's working.
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post #3 of 37 (permalink) Old 02-20-2017, 08:41 PM
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Re: Trying to leave, she keeps seducing me, and I keep letting her

Ahh the use of sex to get what she wants, and she will act out again you know this and have to decide is this how you want your child raised.



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post #4 of 37 (permalink) Old 02-20-2017, 08:58 PM
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Re: Trying to leave, she keeps seducing me, and I keep letting her

It does sound like she's trying to manipulate you with sex. Considering past instability, I don't see this ending well for you.

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post #5 of 37 (permalink) Old 02-20-2017, 09:06 PM
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Re: Trying to leave, she keeps seducing me, and I keep letting her

You're not married to her yet? Don't marry her. That will be the biggest mistake of your life. Sorry you find yourself here, but you're the only one who can find your way out.

She sounds like she has a personality disorder, maybe research narcissistic personality disorder. They are all over the place, manipulative, hypersexual, threatening, etc...I'd seriously end this.

''Sometimes, you fall in love with the most unexpected person, at the most unexpected time.'' - Unknown
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post #6 of 37 (permalink) Old 02-20-2017, 09:08 PM
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Re: Trying to leave, she keeps seducing me, and I keep letting her

@Uptown

"Our ability to feel joy is directly related to how much pain we are willing to feel." - Mavash.

"The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for." - Bob Marley
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post #7 of 37 (permalink) Old 02-20-2017, 09:18 PM
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Re: Trying to leave, she keeps seducing me, and I keep letting her

Hard to tell what is happening. Yes, she could be manipulating you, just as she was doing with all the empty threats about leaving.

But there could be a different type of dynamic here--some sort of dom/sub thing. It's almost as if she was begging for you to be stern and distant with her for all these years. When you finally became aloof and cold, she got really turned on and was ready to fulfill her submissive role as your pleaser/slave.

In any case, it's hard to see how this would ever turn into a healthy relationship.
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post #8 of 37 (permalink) Old 02-20-2017, 10:21 PM Thread Starter
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That's an interesting way to look at it. And it does make sense. Thinking back that is kind of how our relationship started. It was casual based around drinking and having sex, at the time I was very clear on my position. I put it to her simply, this is who I am and wish to be, if you do not try to change me we can make a go at a relationship. Back then we got along great, sex life was good, we had fun together. But over time we had a kid, I matured a little bit and they dynamic changed and my role went from being a fun outgoing boyfriend to provider.

She even mentioned that the article that she read and was mimicking was based off of a sub/Dom type relationship with a contract involved.

At the same time, the empty threats to leave, the suicidal threats, over the top seduction all manipulation tactics.

I saw someone tag Uptown and I have been speaking to him before this post and am 90% sure she has BPD she exhibits all the traits and behaviors, she is treated for depression, anxeity, and ADHD but has also stopped seeing a counselor.

She told me about a month ago after another one of these fights where I almost ended it she was going to seek treatment and within a couple days that idea went out the window. She mentioned that other day when she was crying and apologizing she would see one, I'm curious to see if she follows through this time.
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post #9 of 37 (permalink) Old 02-20-2017, 11:01 PM
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Re: Trying to leave, she keeps seducing me, and I keep letting her

@Farsidejunky, thanks for the call out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jpp3 View Post
This all sounds great, clean house, chipper and put together wife, happy children, dinner every night, blowjobs every night.
No, JPP, it doesn't "sound great." Rather, it sounds just like the unstable, toxic mess you've been living in for the past 6 years. The sensational sex, for example, is nothing new. As you said four weeks ago (1/21 post), "Our sex life is sporadic, we will be intimate every night sometime a few times a day for 3-5 days and then not at all for 1-3 weeks. Sometimes it's good and passionate...." As you said then, "when it's good it's great, but when it's bad it's miserable."

Quote:
We have gone to counseling discussed this among other things, it will get better for a period of time and then eventually go right back to the same thing.
If she is a BPDer -- as we discussed four weeks ago -- marriage counseling likely will be a total waste of time until that underlying issue is treated in independent counseling -- a process that usually takes several years in the very unlikely event she will remain in therapy and work hard at it.

Quote:
She mentioned that other day when she was crying and apologizing she would see [a therapist], I'm curious to see if she follows through this time.
If she will lick your butt to keep you from leaving, she certainly will be willing to see a therapist. That's the EASY part. What's HARD is getting her to go to therapy for several years (at the very least) and to work hard on acquiring the emotional skills she never had an opportunity to learn in childhood. It is rare for a high functioning BPDer to have sufficient self awareness and ego strength to be willing to do that. Instead, the BPDers who go to therapy at their spouse's insistence usually only play mind games with the therapist.

My BPDer exW, for example, went to weekly sessions with six different psychologists (and 3 MCs) for 15 years. It cost me a small fortune, an amount that was matched by my insurance carrier (because I paid half). At the end of 15 years, I realized -- when my exW had me thrown into jail on a bogus charge -- that her BPD traits had only gotten worse.

Quote:
If anyone does have any advice I am open to hearing it.
My advice, JPP, is to take the following steps:

First, see a psychologist to obtain a candid professional opinion on whether your fiance is exhibiting strong BPD traits as you believe. This is important because the latest study on BPD heritability indicates that, when one Parent has full-blown BPD, each child has roughly a 30% chance of developing it. (Because the few studies on heritability are all very small, their results are only suggestive of what the real figure might be.) As a responsible parent, your first action should be to determine the risk confronting your daughter.

Second, consult with a family law attorney who is experienced in dealing with child custody cases involving a very vindictive parent. If your fiance is a BPDer as you suspect, the custody battle likely will get very nasty very quickly -- no matter what wonderful promises she is making now. Remember, a BPDer's perception of your intentions is distorted by whatever intense feelings she is experiencing AT THIS VERY MOMENT.

Third, start participating (or at least lurking) at BPDfamily.com, which offers eight separate message boards on various BPD issues. The ones that likely will be most helpful are the "Detaching from a Borderline" board and "Co-Parenting after the Split" board.

Fourth, while you're at BPDfamily, read the articles: Surviving a Breakup with Someone Suffering with BPD and Leaving a Partner with BPD. At other websites, I recommend High Risk Parenting and Pain of Breaking Up.

Fifth, read an explanation of how we excessive caregivers get to be this way during our childhood. The best explanation I've found is Shari Schreiber's article, Do You Love to be Needed? Schreiber argues that, due to childhood dynamics with parents, our desire to be needed (for what we can do) FAR exceeds our desire to be loved (for the men we already are). If you've been married to a BPDer for 6 years, you almost certainly are an excessive caregiver like me.

Sixth, although you suspect that your fiance has strong BPD traits, do not try to persuade her of that view. If she is a BPDer, she almost certainly will project the accusation right back onto you, believing YOU to be the BPDer. Instead, simply encourage her to see a good psychologist (not a MC) and let the psych decide what to tell her.

Seventh, inquire about your fiance's history of behavior during the teen years from her family members -- to find out if her BPD traits started showing strongly well before she had the drug problem. When you see the psychologist, he will want to know whether the BPD traits (e.g., impulsiveness) likely caused the drug abuse or, instead, the reverse seems true.

Eighth, start carrying a small VAR in your pocket whenever you are in your fiance's presence. It is important that you start collecting evidence of the way she threatens to kill herself and occasionally "flies off the handle" when upset with you or your daughter. You may need it in a custody battle to protect your daughter -- or to stay out of jail if your fiance tries to get you arrested on a bogus charge.

Finally, please don't forget those of us here on this TAM forum. We want to keep trying to answer your questions and providing emotional support as long as you find our shared experiences helpful. Moreover, by sharing your own experiences, you likely are helping numerous other members and lurkers. Your threads already have attracted over 2,000 views.
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post #10 of 37 (permalink) Old 02-21-2017, 01:17 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you Uptown, your advice and suggestions and shared experiences have been very helpful in helping me to understand what I am dealing with. It doesn't make it any easier to detach though. I have checked out some of those pages you recommend from one of our last talks. I perused them but didn't read through as much as I could have as life got in the way. I will check them out again. I intended to get Var previously but never got around to it but at this point I do feel I need to get one stat as I'm sure this current behavior will be gone soon only to give way to the abusive threatening behavior. Alot of these conversations have also happened through text and I do have these conversations printed and in a safe place.

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post #11 of 37 (permalink) Old 02-21-2017, 03:39 PM
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Re: Trying to leave, she keeps seducing me, and I keep letting her

Quote:
Originally Posted by *Deidre* View Post
You're not married to her yet? Don't marry her. That will be the biggest mistake of your life. Sorry you find yourself here, but you're the only one who can find your way out.

She sounds like she has a personality disorder, maybe research narcissistic personality disorder. They are all over the place, manipulative, hypersexual, threatening, etc...I'd seriously end this.
No, that's not narcissistic. Sounds a lot more like Borderline Personality Disorder. The seduction, the threatening of suicide. Yeah, I've been there. It's a nightmare that never ends. GET OUT. Let her find another host to suck the life out of.
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post #12 of 37 (permalink) Old 02-21-2017, 04:14 PM
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Re: Trying to leave, she keeps seducing me, and I keep letting her

Well you seem very well aware of what is going on. So what is the matter with you then?
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post #13 of 37 (permalink) Old 02-21-2017, 04:22 PM
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Re: Trying to leave, she keeps seducing me, and I keep letting her

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No, that's not narcissistic. Sounds a lot more like Borderline Personality Disorder. The seduction, the threatening of suicide. Yeah, I've been there. It's a nightmare that never ends. GET OUT. Let her find another host to suck the life out of.
Yea, that could be. Whatever it is, leave this toxic relationship.

''Sometimes, you fall in love with the most unexpected person, at the most unexpected time.'' - Unknown
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post #14 of 37 (permalink) Old 02-21-2017, 05:23 PM Thread Starter
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Fear, guilt and probably some codependency
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post #15 of 37 (permalink) Old 02-21-2017, 05:32 PM
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Re: Trying to leave, she keeps seducing me, and I keep letting her

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Fear, guilt and probably some codependency
I've dated a few players before my fiance, and they were very manipulative, etc. The problem though was me. Co dependency isn't love, and emotional abuse isn't love. When I was growing up, my relationship with my father was not so great. He is a tough man, strict, wealthy, demanding...expected a lot from me, and to my opinion, didn't show me love. Not until nearly two years ago, did we finally mend our relationship. He apologized a lot to me, but I had to forgive him. Maybe this woman you're with reminds you of something bad in your past, in your childhood? We tend to tolerate things that are familiar. Now, that I have a loving relationship with my dad, I find that I can love others. I'm not codependent, and I'm going to get married in a few months. But, until you sort that part of yourself out, you'll stay in this toxic place. You can change this, but this woman won't change. So, maybe start there, and then hopefully, you'll realize you deserve to be LOVED. Not used. Hope this helps a little.

''Sometimes, you fall in love with the most unexpected person, at the most unexpected time.'' - Unknown
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