Are you happy you left? happy you stayed? - Page 3 - Talk About Marriage
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post #31 of 97 (permalink) Old 02-21-2017, 06:20 PM
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Re: Are you happy you left? happy you stayed?

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Originally Posted by katiecrna View Post
I unfortunelty agree with this. I think us women think men are better than they actually are. They are just men. And I had to come to the realization... what my husband should do vs what he will do.

Yea they should be attentive. They should notice the small things. They should take initiative and help out. They should be able to comfort us and show us emotion. Blah blah blah. The reality is many times... they don't. It's not natural to them or in their DNA or something.

Men are sometimes like children. You need to tell them what to do. They wait for their mommy (aka wife) to pick up after them and tell them what to do. And this notion is reflected when men take their socks off and leave them on the floor. Or take their dish and put it on the counter. They wait for their mommy wife to take care of it for them. Or when they ask you where the (fill in the blank ) is.
Frankly I thought you were going to slate me for my last post.Look,I'm a smart guy,I have a high iq,my own business,my own house and I have lived on my own for years.Because I can't tell that my gf really did want an ice cream when I asked her and she said no or when I offered her the last chicken wing and when she refused it and I ate it does that make me a bad guy.If I don't hand wash dishes but put them in the dishwasher,is that really the end of civilisation as we know it.This is what I mean when I say spell it out and say what you mean don't beat around the bush.

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post #32 of 97 (permalink) Old 02-21-2017, 06:36 PM
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Re: Are you happy you left? happy you stayed?

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I did make an effort to acknowledge when he attempts improvement. My H has anxiety and depression, and I am very aware of the difficulties those present. It's hard for him to make a simple phone call about something simple; say, phoning the school to tell them my daughter won't be there today. I've discussed his mental issues in IC very thoroughly, I've read books and have gained some wonderful tips on how to best support him. I think he would agree that I'm more than patient in this area. When I can see he's pushing himself to help me; I am very aware to say thank you and tell him how much I appreciate it. Unfortunately, his mental anxieties can lead to long periods of not leaving the house, not bathing, not cleaning up after himself. Those are harder to handle for me, as I'm a naturally social person.



I work full time. H stays home with out 2year old. He cooks and "cleans" lol. I do my very very best to over look the mess that I really think SHOULDN'T be there with one parent staying home.. but when/if I say anything, he takes things to heart and gets offended easily and is very sensitive. I've started saying things like, "What is a better way for me to phrase that?" when he gets offended if I ask him to clean up the kitchen today... things like that. But he'l just say, "Its not that bad!" ... but it definitely is that bad. Haha.
We are pretty broke right now. It's not looking good.. we may have to down size. He just started mentioning getting a part time job to help out. I'm not too excited though.. him saying is a lot different to him doing.



I appreciate what you're saying here. I'd like to be clear that I am not expecting marriage to be romantic every day, or for the butterflies to sing me songs in the morning. I'm a very realistic person. I think what I was trying to ask was, how unhappy is enough to leave. The truth is, yes, I could stay with my husband and live a long life with him; but I will always live in a state of wonder... would I have been better off without him? Has he been pulling me down all this time? Is this really what my life has become? I dont want to look back in regret. My H and I are very different. Yes, I love him; he's a good man.. but I find myself enjoying his company less because we are growing in different directions.



In the earlier years of our marriage, we would spend a lot of time taking longs walks, or drives, and discussing life. We talks a lot about dreams and futures. He opened up to me about his anxieties and depression, and I opened up about my childhood and parents. We got deep and I felt connected to him. Now, when I try to bring things like that up, he blocks me with, "I'm fine." "I don't want to talk about it." or "I just want to game (video games) a little bit, and than we'll talk" and than he'll go to bed before we can chat. When I make a point of having a conversation, and make him sit down to talk... I get eye rolls and sighs and the conversation feels forced and unnatural and cheap. It's not connection. I've mentioned this struggle before, and he said, "What do you mean, we're connecting right now!!" He simply doesn't understand what I mean.



I also appreciate this, because this WAS me at one point. I wanted him to read my mind, and know me so well that I didn't have to explain too much. I know different now. My IC has helped me with this and I am very clear with my H, beacuse I know he cannot read my mind.
I've asked for more sex. He says, "yeah, we should get on that" .. and than nothing changes. I've asked for connection and date nights, he always makes it seem like a hassel; I've even said, "When you sigh and roll you're eyes, it makes me feel like a date night with me is a hassel." He'll respond, "Sorry. It's not" .. most of the time, I feel like I'm dragging him around because he doesnt actually WANT to do anything.. which sucks, because I love doing things.

When he and I met, he made himself seem way more social than he is. I only started to see the truth of his anxieties and depression once I was already pregnant. There is a part of me that feels "tricked"... he told me he had lots of friends, and partied (this was in college), loved to travel and do new things. All of this... is not at all true. He also told me he wasn't a virgin; something I straight up asked him. I found out 4 years after being together, that he was. That hurt me; but he said he was embarrassed and didn't want to admit it. I could understand that. We have sex about 1 or 2 a month.. he will not discuss our sex life with me. I've tried, trust me. He shuts right down. It's frustrating.

Honestly, I do try to communicate with my H. I haven't mentioned my thought recently because I'm trying to get a clear idea of what I want and expect before I bring it to him. Bringing it to him at this point will cause his stress and anxiety, and no good will come from it.
We were in a fragile state last year... I committed to IC, but he never attended his. We never went to MC; because I didn't feel the committment from him. He says, "Therapy doesn't work for me"

I can't come on for the rest of the night, but I'll check in in the morning for more.

Thanks again for your responses.
Just an FYI to you and other posters, this should have been your lead, then the thread would have been very different. You will get much better advice. Also you should be as blunt with your husband. His depression isn't an excuse for being an ass. If he is too depressed to wash then he shouldn't be married he should be institutionalized. You husband needs to grow up. I say give him an ultimatum and then 6 months. Start with basic grooming.
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post #33 of 97 (permalink) Old 02-21-2017, 06:59 PM
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Cool Re: Are you happy you left? happy you stayed?

From someone who was summarily and deceptively pushed out of the door due to my RSXW's covert infidelity that I didn't have the first damned clue about, and not ever having to set eyes again on either her lawbreaking, convict, tatted, thuggish, dopehead kids ~ or her ~ well let's just say that it's almost comparable to having endless manna from heaven!

"To love another person is to see the face of God!" - Jean Valjean from Les Miserables

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post #34 of 97 (permalink) Old 02-21-2017, 07:10 PM
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Re: Are you happy you left? happy you stayed?

If your this unhappy or unsure of your marriage than separate. Legally separate and get space from him.
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post #35 of 97 (permalink) Old 02-22-2017, 12:23 PM
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Re: Are you happy you left? happy you stayed?

I was going to say... what others said "give examples" and sokillme already took care of my response

A bit snippet:
Quote:
"We have sex about 1 or 2 a month.. he will not discuss our sex life with me. I've tried, trust me. He shuts right down. It's frustrating".
How old are you two?
I know people have this rather silly hangup about sex... but geez, you got some years under your belt, you have kids. Talking about sex shouldn't be a challenge.

BTW: I always recommend to people, anyone - that they should date/marry for 4~5 years before kids. It helps with bonding and you don't miss the freedom of being able to go out and "PARTY" or do anything else when you want to or need to. That's like... Want to do something, get toddler dressed. Want to go out? Need a babysitter... want to be out all night and come back the next afternoon - uh... parents/grandparents, if you have them. Want to go to Burningman for 10 days - uh...

I also agree with sokillme. Give him an ultimatum. He need to read, he needs to do... or the marriage is over. You want him to be a more active role in your marriage. Give him options.
1 - divorce, separate... he'll need to get a job.
2 - Get his act together, learn more about sex... learn how to talk. Maybe see if he is co-dependent. locate a local CODA group is there is any.
3 - Open the marriage up (which will likely result in you leaving your husband anyway). Thus, he becomes the live-in babysitter for you to go out - meet other guys and have your needs met.
Why I say bring this up? To see his reaction and to get him to do something... either he says "okay" or "uh... I don't like that idea". That may get him off is ass.

For many, open relationships work... I doubt it here. May let him know... that he needs someone else more like him or something. Too early to know, and you need to give him his final chance to do something. That you're not going to spend the rest of your life that way. Especially if you both are still in your 20s.

Supporting those who want to divorce or reconcile. Not every relationship is the same.
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post #36 of 97 (permalink) Old 02-24-2017, 09:24 AM
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Re: Are you happy you left? happy you stayed?

I would like to point out that the final line item below relates to something called geospatial memory.

Gender wise women appear to have far better geospatial memory than men. Personally - my recall of conversations is far better than M2's.



Quote:
Originally Posted by katiecrna View Post
I unfortunelty agree with this. I think us women think men are better than they actually are. They are just men. And I had to come to the realization... what my husband should do vs what he will do.

Yea they should be attentive. They should notice the small things. They should take initiative and help out. They should be able to comfort us and show us emotion. Blah blah blah. The reality is many times... they don't. It's not natural to them or in their DNA or something.

Men are sometimes like children. You need to tell them what to do. They wait for their mommy (aka wife) to pick up after them and tell them what to do. And this notion is reflected when men take their socks off and leave them on the floor. Or take their dish and put it on the counter. They wait for their mommy wife to take care of it for them. Or when they ask you where the (fill in the blank ) is.
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post #37 of 97 (permalink) Old 02-24-2017, 09:45 AM
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Re: Are you happy you left? happy you stayed?

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I read a lot of posts about women who fell out of love with their husbands; or their husbands fell out of love with their wives. It seems there is always inner conflict on "should I leave, or should I stay?"

I'd like to ask the question... for those of you who left; were you happy with that choice? Did you ever regret it?

For those that stayed... are you glad you stuck it out? Was the pain worth the regained love? Or do you wish you would have left a long time ago?

Just curious; I wish I had a more experienced married friend to seek advice and experience from in my life; but all my friends are young(like me; 27) and/or not married yet. I was one of the first to be married, and often wish I could get advice from an older married woman.

I wonder if my expectations for marriage are unreal? Is it even realistic to feel in love with your husband.. am I romanticizing marriage? Am I seeking greener grass, when really, this is as green as it gets. I expect hard times, and I know that not everything is flowers and butterflies; I'm not expecting perfection from relationships... but the dead-love feeling is real in my marriage.. and I can't help but be disappointed. (together 6 years; 2 kids)

I'm craving more from marriage; from love; from life.... but, maybe I"m just expecting too much and dreaming of fairy tales that don't exist.

I guess I want to know... is it NORMAL to feel out of love with your husband? To view him as a friend.. a parenting partner.. a convenience? He claims that he's so in love with me still; and I can see how he tries to show it. I've looked into a lot of things to help out; the 5 love languages was a big one. We speak love VERY differently, and the things he does for me, are not my love language. I miss connection. I miss conversation. I miss heart-to-hearts, and soul searching. I miss intimacy that lasts longer than the sex does. I miss WANTING him. I miss being wanted. I miss the love.

It's occurred to me that I'm just expecting too much. Any thoughts here?
You sound like you are in a similar place to my wife, she told me great dad, provider, good person etc but not in love with me anymore and doesn't miss me when I am gone and she feels like that's not how its supposed to be. We got married fast and young, long distance relationship for a year then kids as soon as we moved in together.

Have you been to MC? Maybe your husbands wants all the same things and you have a wall between you that can be pulled down and give you both what you need out of the relationship, I would have loved the chance to be closer to my wife again.
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post #38 of 97 (permalink) Old 02-24-2017, 02:22 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Are you happy you left? happy you stayed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TaDor View Post
I was going to say... what others said "give examples" and sokillme already took care of my response

A bit snippet: How old are you two?
I know people have this rather silly hangup about sex... but geez, you got some years under your belt, you have kids. Talking about sex shouldn't be a challenge.

BTW: I always recommend to people, anyone - that they should date/marry for 4~5 years before kids. It helps with bonding and you don't miss the freedom of being able to go out and "PARTY" or do anything else when you want to or need to. That's like... Want to do something, get toddler dressed. Want to go out? Need a babysitter... want to be out all night and come back the next afternoon - uh... parents/grandparents, if you have them. Want to go to Burningman for 10 days - uh...

I also agree with sokillme. Give him an ultimatum. He need to read, he needs to do... or the marriage is over. You want him to be a more active role in your marriage. Give him options.
1 - divorce, separate... he'll need to get a job.
2 - Get his act together, learn more about sex... learn how to talk. Maybe see if he is co-dependent. locate a local CODA group is there is any.
3 - Open the marriage up (which will likely result in you leaving your husband anyway). Thus, he becomes the live-in babysitter for you to go out - meet other guys and have your needs met.
Why I say bring this up? To see his reaction and to get him to do something... either he says "okay" or "uh... I don't like that idea". That may get him off is ass.

For many, open relationships work... I doubt it here. May let him know... that he needs someone else more like him or something. Too early to know, and you need to give him his final chance to do something. That you're not going to spend the rest of your life that way. Especially if you both are still in your 20s.

I am 27; H is 38.

He has always had a hard time talking openly about sex. I've tried everything I know how; I've approached the subject ever so gently, I've tried DOING instead of talking... I've explained to him, "I'm your wife; we need to be able to discuss sex and intimacy on deep levels. You dont have to be embarrassed with me.. I love you and I WANT to please you." ... he usually just says, "I like things the way they are."

I've asked him about fantasies but he stays closed lipped ... if I push it enough, he says he likes Asian women; which, I'm not.. So I don't feel there's a ton I can do there. And he wont give me anything else.. I've kind of given up on that front.

To get SUPER personal... last time we almost split up; in an act of desperation, he started sexting me while I was at work. He got quite detailed and dirty, and I loved it. I ate it up and responded positively. I had made plans previously that week to have dinner with a girl friend, and we continued the flirting and dirty texting all the way through my dinner. Now BECAUSE he and I were on the verge of a break up, I didn't know how to take these, I ended up having too many glasses of wine with my friend.. But by the time I got home, I was a drunk, hot mess, and we had amazing sex! He went down on me, got dominant with me, it was incredible.

However, also because I was drunk.. I started crying after (I know, baaad lol) and explained that I was hurt because he just showed me that he CAN be that seductive, sexy man... He just WON'T... He got annoyed with me for crying; which, I get.. I kind of ruined the mood; however, I still had a point. I asked where this behaviour came from and he said, "I just wanted you to remember me in a positive light"

We were able to get things started back up between us (not just because of that sex) and than the sex went right back down again. I've tried sexting him since, and sending him pictures but he responds with, "haha" or "that sounds nice" or "nice" and I eventually stop because he just doesnt seem into it; he doesn't seem into ME. My advances aren't taken well; and honestly, at this point, I'm not that interested in being intimate with him anyway. So I dont bother.

He wants to have another baby, so he'll sleep with me once or twice a month; saying things like, "maybe your pregnant now!"... I feel like he's only sleeping with me so he can get me pregnant. It's not a super loving feeling.
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post #39 of 97 (permalink) Old 02-24-2017, 03:52 PM
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Re: Are you happy you left? happy you stayed?

Um, if things are messed up between you, having a baby is THE LAST THING you should do!!

Life is too short to spend time with people who suck the happiness out of you.

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post #40 of 97 (permalink) Old 02-25-2017, 01:11 AM
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Re: Are you happy you left? happy you stayed?

My first marriage was a mistake. We married at 18 because I was pregnant, divorced by 20. We barely even dated before marrying. I will say that we really tried, as much as teenagers in our circumstance could. Neither of us were happy, but he was much more unhappy than I was. He was a good guy, even then. If I told him to stay, he likely would have. I don't know if he would have stayed forever, but he would have stayed longer. He was willing to be unhappy to do what society made him believe was the right thing.

The aftermath of the divorce was really hard. Learning to co-parent, watching him date again (very quickly), losing time with my daughter, losing holidays with my daughter, watching him re-marry and create a new family. I stayed single for a long time.

I don't regret it at all, and I don't think I ever really have. The marriage wasn't right and we were not happy.

My second marriage... that's a whole other ballgame that is still in the works.

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post #41 of 97 (permalink) Old 03-16-2017, 12:47 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Are you happy you left? happy you stayed?

I have decided to leave my husband.

It's taken me a while, but I'm very strong in this decision. We haven't hugged/kissed/showed any kind of affection for over a month now. Last night, he asked if we could have sex, I tried to get out of it.. but the kids were at their grandmas house and I had no good excuse to not and so we did; I felt awful about it. Kissing him was like kissing a stranger; sex with him was empty. I took a hot, hot shower afterwards and cried.

I'm just not in love with him anymore.

My house is going up for sale in two weeks, and when we sell (which will happen fast because of where we live) I will tell him that I'm going to be getting my own place. I'm choosing to wait that long, because if I tell him before we move, he may not follow through with the sale. So for now, I'm going through the motions to get to where I need to be before breaking the news.

He's going to be distraught, but I don't think he'll be surprised. I'm going to offer to help him find an apartment or house, and split the money from the house sale with him 50/50. He can do with that as he chooses.

He hasn't worked in about a year, so I'm going to offer to pay him the monthly baby bonus plus $500/month for the first 6 months.. depending on what his rent will be in the new place. I don't know if he'll take it... but I'm going to offer it.

I am doing this so that he has a chance to continue to be in my children's lives. He's a great father, and I'm hoping for shared custody with him. I do not wish my children to grow up without their father present.
H suffers from depression and anxiety; so this is going to be THAT MUCH worse for him. If I leave him to figure it out; he will run back to his mommy, 2 hours north from me, swim in his depression, and my kids will only see him every other weekend.

He may end up doing all that anyway... I"m not sure.. it will depend how he takes it.

I'm really nervous about telling him. But I'm ready. After last night, there is no going back. Thinking about it the relationship now, I can see how it all happened; I can see where I crossed the line from caring and trying... to being done completely.

This is going to be the hardest thing I will ever have to do.
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post #42 of 97 (permalink) Old 03-16-2017, 12:52 PM
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Re: Are you happy you left? happy you stayed?

Well...congrats on coming to a decision, hurdle #1 down. If he starts trying to get you to look at houses, you may have to come out with it though. You dont want to get too far into the process. Get a plan in place while you are waiting for the house to sell otherwise. Best of luck to you and keep posting so we can offer support.

Life is too short to spend time with people who suck the happiness out of you.

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post #43 of 97 (permalink) Old 03-16-2017, 01:03 PM
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Re: Are you happy you left? happy you stayed?

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I don't think that you're expecting too much. However, be sure that you spouse knows how unhappy you are.
This ^^^. It's very common for the wife to feel unhappy and out of love because she is being neglected. However, the husband doesn't "get it" until she leaves. Then he is totally blind sided.

I would read the book His Needs Her Needs and see if it speaks to you. If so, try to get your husband to read it too. I believe you can have a fulfilling marriage but it requires effort from both sides, and that commonly slips especially after children are born.

https://www.amazon.com/His-Needs-Her.../dp/0800744233
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post #44 of 97 (permalink) Old 03-16-2017, 01:07 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Are you happy you left? happy you stayed?

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Well...congrats on coming to a decision, hurdle #1 down. If he starts trying to get you to look at houses, you may have to come out with it though. You dont want to get too far into the process. Get a plan in place while you are waiting for the house to sell otherwise. Best of luck to you and keep posting so we can offer support.
Thank you. I will keep posting.. the support here is helpful; even when I need to hear I'm being an ass or something. Ha.

No one in my life (except 1 girl friend of mine) knows about any of my plans at this point; I'm trying to keep it quiet until at least H knows.

When we sell the house, the plan was to rent for a while anyway (to build my credit back up) so I don't expect too much house hunting to happen. So far, he's been very minimally involved in the process, but I do know I may have to tell him sooner than later. I'm thinking that through right now, and preparing myself for it.

I dont want to be hurtful towards him. I think I'm going to cling to the "I don't see a future for us anymore" line and try not to bash him too much. He's going to ask "WHY" .. that will be hard to answer without getting into specifics. We'll see...

Thank you for the support, again.
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post #45 of 97 (permalink) Old 03-16-2017, 01:10 PM
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Re: Are you happy you left? happy you stayed?

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This ^^^. It's very common for the wife to feel unhappy and out of love because she is being neglected. However, the husband doesn't "get it" until she leaves. Then he is totally blind sided.

I would read the book His Needs Her Needs and see if it speaks to you. If so, try to get your husband to read it too. I believe you can have a fulfilling marriage but it requires effort from both sides, and that commonly slips especially after children are born.

https://www.amazon.com/His-Needs-Her.../dp/0800744233
I was/am in your husbands side of things, was never really told and still don't know exactly what it is my W wants. She has told me she has tried so hard and done everything to 'Save' our marriage but I haven't seen it and even now while we are in the D proceedings the communication is still not coming through clear, it seems to me that Men and Woman receive and broadcast communication on a complete different frequency.

Anyway not being a smart ass just wanted to comment my POV.

Good luck with whatever you do.

M - 12
Kids - 2
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