Burnt out, hopeless, thinking of leaving everything behind - Page 2 - Talk About Marriage
Considering Divorce or Separation If you're considering divorce or separation, this is the place to talk.

User Tag List

 22Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
post #16 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-28-2017, 12:48 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Tampa area
Posts: 2,436
Re: Burnt out, hopeless, thinking of leaving everything behind

Oh check out jobs in Texas. I remember when the gas prices tanked back in the day. People in the northeast where driving around with bumper stickers "they let us freeze, let them starve". One thing Bush or someone in his admin did right was say need a lot more types of industry here then oil and arg. So someone went out and got more then a few types including tech.

On a side note a lot of people are wondering about Putin and Trump. I say watch what happens with frackimg and other new well drilling. I mention this because Canada, Sweden, Norway among other countries may take a real hit to their economies if oil prices keep dropping. The hit will effect Tech and social benefits. Benefits will take a hit or these countries will have to run huge deficits. Which will effect interest rates which will..... Lot of jobs and taxes paid in the oil industry period. Is it there fair share is an honest debate but don't discount the loss to the exconomy if that part of the tax and job market will have.

Want to see insane check out the price or living in ND or SD where franking is going on. I know several people in FL who are sharing three or four persons in a single wide paying insane prices and sending money home and coming back for a week or a month at time and going back repeating the cycle. The money they make is unreal. There life really sucks. They actually remind me of how most undocumented workers here live.


How to deal with an unrepentant spouse: an Irish person can tell a person to go to hell and have them so excited at the prospect they demand to know when, where the train is leaving and how to get a ticket. Then offer them a loan to get the ticket and a ride to the train station. Be Irish
JohnA is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #17 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-28-2017, 12:59 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Tampa area
Posts: 2,436
Re: Burnt out, hopeless, thinking of leaving everything behind

I realize my last post usually belongs in the politics section. But, the OP is considering moving to Canada with a young family. He needs to consider the job market there. Both for himself and his wife in any move. My advice is to consider both the employment prospect for both him and his wife.

How to deal with an unrepentant spouse: an Irish person can tell a person to go to hell and have them so excited at the prospect they demand to know when, where the train is leaving and how to get a ticket. Then offer them a loan to get the ticket and a ride to the train station. Be Irish
JohnA is offline  
post #18 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-28-2017, 10:04 AM
Member
 
Ursula's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Posts: 239
Re: Burnt out, hopeless, thinking of leaving everything behind

I think that first off, what I would do is sit down with your wife, and let her know how burnt out and unhappy you're feeling. That's excellent that you've supported her through numerous business ventures, but there comes a time when, if they just aren't working, it's time for her to admit that, and find a job in her field. Even if it's part time so that she can be there for the kids after school. Also if it's part time, she might have some extra time to pursue her business on the side. At this point though, I would have to say that she's gotten used to living this lifestyle, and isn't partial to changing and putting more of an effort in.

So, you moved closer to your job in San Fran, and you still have a 3-4 hour commute? :-o

You mention that you guys are in quite a bit of debt and you have no retirement savings and no assets. Does your wife know how in-debt you are? If not, she needs to know this information.

What really struck me in your message was how much needless stuff you guys have/do. If she doesn't work full time, your wife has the time to spend cooking some meals. Invest in a large-sized slow cooker to make big pot meals. I have one of these for my husband and I, and I tell you, it's the easiest thing ever. Throw the ingredients in, and let it do its thing.

Stop going out to eat 4-5 times per week, and reduce it down to a couple times. And, pick cheaper places to go to. With a family of 6, that can't be cheap to feed, especially with eating out!

Sit down on the weekend when you have a little time to plan, and figure out some easy meal preps for the week (this is where that slow cooker comes in). I like to do this because it gives huge opportunity to plan not only for the week, but into the future as well. Example: if I make a lasagna, I make 2. It doesn't take much more effort, and then we have an extra home cooked lasagna frozen in our freezer for a later date. Google recipes; there's SO MUCH out there that is easy to prep and healthy.

Fire the maid. I don't mean to sound sexist, but for how much work your wife does, she can surface clean the house weekly, and you guys can do a deeper clean on a schedule that works for you. Plus, your kids are old enough where they can help out as well. They live there too, and can help out.

On that note, you don't need a full-time nanny; don't entertain the idea of spending more money on something you don't need just to keep your wife happy. You also don't need a Spyder, a Bentley or a Ferrari. I don't know what you drive, but I'm sure it's just fine!

Kids being in the best schools. If this isn't something that you really believe they need, sit down with your wife and talk about it. Technically, you and you alone are paying for this, and if you cannot afford it, don't do it. Let them finish off this school year, then consider putting them into mainstream education. If they flourish in private school, they'll flourish in public school, and who's saying they can't become something great either way? And yes, if your wife is the one at home, I would think that she would be the one spending more time with them helping with homework, etc.

$6000/month on rent… is there any way that you guys can move somewhere cheaper? That rent (for something you'll never own) is ridiculous, especially on a single salary. If your wife is opposed to moving somewhere that maybe isn't as "nice", tell her she needs to start contributing financially, as you cannot handle all the expenses any longer.

Stop buying her expensive things! A woman can only wear so much jewelry, and that goes for beauty products too. Do you have a working Dyson? If so, why do you need to keep updating them? And, what person needs a $400 blow dryer?!? I think mine cost $15, and I've been using it for years. Just stop all of this; it's unnecessary.

If it were my husband in this situation, and he agreed to look for a full time job by a certain time, and he didn't do this, I'd hold him to it. She needs to start contributing, and she also needs to stop borrowing from family to start various businesses. Not only is she hindering you guys, but other people's financial situations as well, and that's not fair. I recently started up a couple home-based businesses with my OWN money when I was laid off. If they weren't feasible for me to do, they wouldn't have happened, and I surely wouldn't have taken money from my parents to start them up. My parents are near retirement age; why would I want to ruin that for them?

Sex life: talk about this, and tell her you're unhappy.

About not caring if you leave your kids: they're your kids; care about their well-being, and whether or not you ever see them again. I understand you're upset and want to rediscover yourself, but you don't have to cut your kids out to do that. If you truly have lost respect and love for your wife, and didn't miss her when she was gone, this is something you really need to think about.

Marriage counselling: I haven't been, but am in individual counselling to work through my own issues that I have in my own marriage. It's been helping so far. I also plan on working with my husband, and possibly doing counselling together. A counsellor is trained to deal with issues that you guys are having. They can tell you loads of things that you don't already know, which brings me to another thing. You mentioned that you're annoyingly right much of the time. I can tell you this: this isn't the case at all. No one can be right almost all the time and be happy as well. This is a choice you have to make: be right or be happy. I live with someone like that too (has told me he thinks he's perfect and has a photographic memory), and while he thinks he's right much of the time, he's not. Nor am I. It's not a competition; it's about getting along to the best of your abilities, and if you're trying to do that with a huge chip on your shoulder, that's not going to work.

And those are my 2 cents, for what it's worth.
Ursula is online now  
 
post #19 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-28-2017, 10:42 AM
Member
 
GTdad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,102
Re: Burnt out, hopeless, thinking of leaving everything behind

I think that the thoughts about running out on your family may well be rooted in depression. When I went through a serious bout of depression 14 years ago, I had similar thoughts. I believe those thoughts were very akin to those of suicide. You're fleeing pain and effectively ending your life, only without pulling the trigger.

Whatever you do about your marriage, please make sure you're okay. Go see a professional and get checked for depression. A combination of temporary meds and regular exercise pulled me out of my despair. A great thing, not least of all because it enabled me to look at my marriage through a healthy lens.
GTdad is offline  
post #20 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-28-2017, 06:38 PM
Member
 
aine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Away and beyond in a hot place
Posts: 2,749
Re: Burnt out, hopeless, thinking of leaving everything behind

Quote:
Originally Posted by romeo View Post
Thanks for your replies so far.

We ended up with 4 children as we were going for a girl as #3; we ended up getting twins - a boy & a girl. Since then I had vasectomy so we're done there.

I see you are seeing our issue as a mainly financial one. FYI, our most spending is on food and rent. The "things" we buy are of relatively immaterial to our financial challenges, given my level of earning IMO, at about 2%. Regardless, thanks for your advice on budgeting, and yes I realize that would relieve other pressures we have in life. BTW, I recently saw a documentary called "The Minimalist", which I would highly recommend to others who are having money issues.

To me, the bigger issue is my wife not having the empathy toward me, wanting to help me, for sake of my (mental) well-being. The deeper issue seem to be around her not having the confidence and willing to take on challenges, commit to it, get organized, and work hard to meet her goals. Her lack of confidence in life is something I didn't see when we got married.

What is most frustrating for me, is that she is more than capable of succeeding at whatever she wants to do, and she has all the tools she needs to get organized. Ideally, she would plan things out on spreadsheets, and use her calendar to organize her daily tasks, even for doing mundane stuff like reminders to do laundries. She just doesn't. She would try for a week, but then she would never follow up, let things slip. She would make excuses and she's always "tired" for not following up.

I guess what I am looking for is a competent life-partner, who can help me in life. I also tried to sympathize with her with the fact that we have 4 little children, who can be handful. But I have been also advocating her to get a job, so she can take a break from all the kids craziness, and frankly I think having a more adult interactions would bring more satisfaction to her life and confidence. But she insists on having an an "at home business", which to me will not help her.

By uprooting our family and moving to another country, with significant changes to our lifestyle, I am hoping that it will be an enough of a "shock" for her to get her moving. i.e. to put her in "survival mode".

To be honest, for many years I thought her "plan" was to retire on her parents wealth. But based on a conversation she had with her parents last year, that doesn't seem realistic either; and I think she realized for the first time too. I have also brought up that I cannot love her unconditionally, as I want something in return; her willingness to work hard. In addition I told her that my decision to retire will be made for me by my employer, and I won't be about to work forever. FYI I do have a $1M life insurance for another 20 years or so, which wouldn't be sufficient for maintaining our current lifestyle in this area. She will have to move, but that's not really my concern as I'm dead.

In a way, one can argue I am being petty here. We don't have other "big" problems in our marriage like spouses who are abusing each other with malice, or having substance issues or extramarital affairs, etc. But to me, my marriage is just not living up to what I expected, and it's just too much for me. I just wish that she would do things to take pressure off my life, not add to it. So, in theory, having to live in Canada would eliminate the need for me to work so hard, because a lot is provided by the government... and I am hoping that would improve my relationship with my wife. I feel bad for my kids as they witness a lot of fighting between us; it can't be good for their mental health.

I really appreciate your feedback. I need a reality-check as to whether I am the one being unreasonable here; perhaps this is just a norm for any marriage and all these issues are self-inflicted on my part, by having unrealistic expectations. Thanks.

Financial stress is one thing, but I think you also underestimate the stress of taking care of 4 young kids. It is possible that you are not being realistic either? Women like your wife are highly educated, then give up a bright future to give birth to and take care of young children while their husbands want them to give 100% household support so they can focus on their careers. Then when that is sorted the wife must go and earn money to take the burden of you? WTF!
It is small wonder she has lost self esteem. Yet, expect the woman to then go back to work and still give household support, take care of kids, etc. What does she actually need you for then?

Incidentally whose idea was it to work in a high stress environment in the first place, whose idea was it to have the career you have, you made choices now you want your wife to cover for your bad choices?
I think your stress levels are so high that you do not realise what you are saying. If that is the case carefully sit down with your spread sheets and work out the pros and cons of staying or leaving and discuss with wife. Money cannot compensate for health or relationships.

Ask yourself this question,

1. what value do you bring to your wife? I am sure there are many men out there who would be happy to have a wife with so many kids to stay at home and they would also financially provide.

2. Seems to me like you might be putting too much on your wife. She is expected to balance kids and a new business and support you at the same time, what are you doing for her?
3. Women like to have a man who makes them feel secure financially and emotionally, seems to me you are doing neither.
4. Sounds like you thought you could retire on her parents wealth too or had a woman you could financially rely on also? I think your wife is beginning to see the kind of man you are.
4. If she made demands of you and said, I take care of kids, house, support your career aspirations, etc so get off your bloody high horse and be a man and lead the family, what would you say?

The bottom line is you do not need a wife, you need a personal assistant who can organise your life with spreadsheets, real life doesn't work like that.
aine is offline  
post #21 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-01-2017, 09:16 AM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Posts: 5
Re: Burnt out, hopeless, thinking of leaving everything behind

GTdad,

Thanks for sharing your experience and perspective. I think you are spot on. So I do realize that I need to be careful making any important decisions, given my current state of mind. I am hoping that moving to a place where I can take some load off my mind will help me see things more clearly, so I will start there. I have also started changing my eating habits in the last few weeks, so I hope that will help as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTdad View Post
I think that the thoughts about running out on your family may well be rooted in depression. When I went through a serious bout of depression 14 years ago, I had similar thoughts. I believe those thoughts were very akin to those of suicide. You're fleeing pain and effectively ending your life, only without pulling the trigger.

Whatever you do about your marriage, please make sure you're okay. Go see a professional and get checked for depression. A combination of temporary meds and regular exercise pulled me out of my despair. A great thing, not least of all because it enabled me to look at my marriage through a healthy lens.
romeo is offline  
post #22 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-02-2017, 09:11 PM Thread Starter
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Posts: 5
Re: Burnt out, hopeless, thinking of leaving everything behind

Thanks for your feedback.

Honestly, I would not care for my wife to be making any money at all, if I felt that she cared to do well in her current "job" - a stay at home mom (SAHM). If she just took care of things at home, I would be so happy to go to work, and all my stress from work would just melt away when I come home. What I expect of her as a SAHM are as follows:

1. Help me budget so we can plan our future and make sure we don't go broke. This would involve her reviewing our bank statements, understand where our money goes, and help us be disciplined with our finances. Care to pay bills on time; we had incurred late fees a number of times because she forgot to pay things on time, and at those times I would take-over finances again after few months of her trying again to be on top of things.

2. Plan out her days, making sure daily essentials are done, such as laundry and meal prep. Here, I do not insist on her doing all the work. In face, I do the bulk of grocery shopping for her after my work, and our shopping list is pretty impromptu (as we don't have meal plans). Sure, she can also enroll our children to help her out.

3. Make sure are children are doing well at school. Since we live in such nice ($$$) neighborhood in order to send our kids to good public schools, I feel that our kids should be helped to keep up with their peers, also help them instill self-confidence. My wife does not spend a lot of time with kids on their academics after school. She feels that it's the educator's job. While I agree with that to an extent, kids are taught on their work ethics at home. My kids are at best performing at average or below (according to their teachers). We are not at the point where they need tutoring (or perhaps they do), but that's another expense I would rather not have.

4. Make sure our kids aren't wearing stuff that's just way too small/old; I just found out this morning that our almost 6yr old son is still wearing 2-3T underwear (Yes he's pretty skinny, but come on). I often find our kids wearing socks that are way too small, etc.

That's really all. I don't expect her to be a "supermom", which is the term she often uses to describe some of the moms who seem always active in schools and other activities.

Just to be clear, once she drops off kids at 8:30am, she has a lot of time until 2pm (and 3pm) pickup. All our kids have 1hr piano lessons weekly and a 45 min ballet class for the girl. That's it, plus occasional dental/medical appointments for kids. 3 out of 4 kids get hot lunch at school, so there isn't a lot of meal prep required either (1 has allergies).

My comment about "retiring on my in-law's wealth" was considering how much money we end up spending, without any thoughts to our retirement plan. I thought may be my wife knows something that I don't, so perhaps there will be a nice surprise (?) at the end. (and my FIL was a CEO of multi-national companies in the past and they are retired in Costa Rica in a decent house). I did not marry my wife expecting that I would get a free-ride by any means, as I consider myself a hard-working guy, who has my own ambition of being self-made.

My wife is not evil. I think she grew up in a pretty wealthy household, seeing her mom always having household help, and she was on her path to do what she wanted to study without much financial pressure or to make money. She's really quite naive and innocent, and that was one aspect that I really love about her. What I have discovered over the years is that, she seems paralyzed from knowing what she needs to do in life, while being completely overwhelmed by having 4 little kids. Instead of making plans and taking actions to bring a sense of success in life, she is often hiding behind "being too tired of having to take care of 4 kids", which I don't have much to come back at, except being frustrated. And yes, I can't help but to fight with her about all the things she's not doing well, and of course that makes things worse.

The reason for my post was to see if my "demands" are unreasonable. I married my wife to help us build a future together, where we can look back in 30 yrs and say "we did pretty well", and I would imagine that means having good plans and following through them. I feel that our odds are still against us, even with good plans and intentions, so we are doomed if we can't even get ourselves to set near-term goals and take actions to meet them.

And yes, I won't hide the fact that I can be pretty self-centered too, wanting to ultimately have a life that's good for me. As someone who doesn't believe in after-life, I want to make sure that I get the most out of this life... and I feel I'm being dragged down by my wife's non-actions. My life can't be about simply having to support my wife and family, and I'm dead after working to my bones for decades.

Anyway, I think I said enough to shed some light on what I am expecting in marriage, and please do point out whether I have unreasonable expectations. Thanks.


Quote:
Originally Posted by aine View Post
Financial stress is one thing, but I think you also underestimate the stress of taking care of 4 young kids. It is possible that you are not being realistic either? Women like your wife are highly educated, then give up a bright future to give birth to and take care of young children while their husbands want them to give 100% household support so they can focus on their careers. Then when that is sorted the wife must go and earn money to take the burden of you? WTF!
It is small wonder she has lost self esteem. Yet, expect the woman to then go back to work and still give household support, take care of kids, etc. What does she actually need you for then?

Incidentally whose idea was it to work in a high stress environment in the first place, whose idea was it to have the career you have, you made choices now you want your wife to cover for your bad choices?
I think your stress levels are so high that you do not realise what you are saying. If that is the case carefully sit down with your spread sheets and work out the pros and cons of staying or leaving and discuss with wife. Money cannot compensate for health or relationships.

Ask yourself this question,

1. what value do you bring to your wife? I am sure there are many men out there who would be happy to have a wife with so many kids to stay at home and they would also financially provide.

2. Seems to me like you might be putting too much on your wife. She is expected to balance kids and a new business and support you at the same time, what are you doing for her?
3. Women like to have a man who makes them feel secure financially and emotionally, seems to me you are doing neither.
4. Sounds like you thought you could retire on her parents wealth too or had a woman you could financially rely on also? I think your wife is beginning to see the kind of man you are.
4. If she made demands of you and said, I take care of kids, house, support your career aspirations, etc so get off your bloody high horse and be a man and lead the family, what would you say?

The bottom line is you do not need a wife, you need a personal assistant who can organise your life with spreadsheets, real life doesn't work like that.

Last edited by romeo; 03-02-2017 at 11:41 PM.
romeo is offline  
post #23 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-04-2017, 06:48 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 16
Re: Burnt out, hopeless, thinking of leaving everything behind

A Compass. A Rock. What a Woman Wants More Than Anything From a Man

What does a woman desire more than anything from a man?

Is it love?

Companionship?

Intimacy?

She desires all these things of course. But what she desires more than anything.... Is to "let go" and give her heart and love to her man knowing that she can trust him to guide and direct her in life... She wants to fully relax in the comfort of knowing that no matter how hard she pushes you.. No matter how bad her behavior is... That you are unmovable... That your core is unshakable...

That is what a woman wants more than anything... But the feminine won't tell you this. This is instinctual for the feminine.

Survival: Female Instincts

The feminine represents change and creation. She is the vessel by which the species survives. Without her carrying and birthing a new creation our species would be extinct. As such, her utmost mission in life is to give birth and protect her offspring. Whether she has offspring or not, the instincts tied to birth and creation will dominate her behaviors. They are instinctual.

As this is the case, the female needs a man that she can trust. For she won't bring offspring into this world with a weak man she can't trust. It is the man's role to provide and protect, and guide and direct. She must count on him for protection. For guidance. For direction.

She Won't Believe Your Words

How does a woman learn to trust a man? By his behaviors of course. A woman would be stupid to simply believe his words.

Think about it. A woman meets a man and says:

"Can I trust you?"

Man says:

"Yes you can trust me."

Now, how stupid would that be for a woman to simply trust a man who says that? This would be very dumb of her. So why do men think that the can say how much they love their woman and care for them as if it makes a difference? This is foolish thinking.

How does a woman learn to trust a man? By his behaviors. She tests him. She provokes him. She pushes him away.

And how a man reacts to these behaviors tells her if she can trust him. If a woman can manipulate you, control you, push you away, etc.

Then she can't trust you.

You Must Be Immune to Her Moods and Emotions

Women test men. Women provoke men. They never stop. Ever. This is how they find out if they can trust you.

Can you handle her at her worst? Can you handle her when she's ice cold? When's she's *****y and mean?

Can she manipulate you? Can she control you? If she can she won't trust you.

This is why you must be unaffected and immune to her changing moods and emotions. When your woman is telling you she "doesn't love you" anymore. When she tells you she "doesn't see a future together."

How do you handle it?

A strong masculine man handles it with love and caring. But he's never needy or insecure. A needy insecure man can't be trusted. An insecure man can't be trusted to guide the women in life. To protect her.

That is why she won't trust you if you're needy and begging and constantly talking about the relationship.

You're Her Rock

The feminine is like the ocean current. Sometimes she's a small current. Sometimes she's a tsunami. The waves represent her moods and emotions. Always changing. Always the potential for a storm.

When she crashes against you, you must be a rock. An unmovable rock. If you move she can't trust you to guide her. If you move and are easily affected by her moods and emotions you're like a broken compass. Worthless to her.

The feminine wants you to guide her. She wants you to be a lighthouse in the midst of her storm. She wants you to be a rock that she can crash against. Knowing that no matter how violent she is. You won't crack. You won't bend. You are unmovable.

The Saddest of Ironies

When your woman pulls away. Wants a divorce. Wants space. What is she telling you? She's telling you that she doesn't trust you to guide her in life. To be that rock for her. To be that lighthouse.

Your protestations of love and caring are simply washed away by her waves. They are meaningless. The only way to gain her trust again is to be a rock. Unmovable in the face of her storm.

Ironically. In the face of this storm. You have the biggest opportunity you will ever have to show her that she can trust you. If you remain masculine. Strong. Unmovable in the face of her storm. She will eventually realize that she can trust you like no other man before. That she can trust you to guide her in life like no other.

When you come out on the other side of this storm. She will see in you a man that she can trust and love. And you will be her rock. When does the storm end? No one knows. But it always... Eventually ends. And when it does you need to be that rock. Unmovable. Unaffected. Guiding her. D


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
GTNBoom is offline  
post #24 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-04-2017, 06:49 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 16
Re: Burnt out, hopeless, thinking of leaving everything behind

If you wish for your wife to follow you and your lead. She must trust you implicitly. Implicit trust is an instinctual thing for the female. You must learn how to behave properly in order for this to happen.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
GTNBoom is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on Talk About Marriage, you must first register. Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

Important! Your username will be visible to the public next to anything you post and could show up in search engines like Google. If you are concerned about anonymity, PLEASE choose a username that will not be recognizable to anyone you know.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Wife is leaving me.. A49erfan Going Through Divorce or Separation 30 06-03-2016 07:18 AM
Leaving and the stigma Sammiejo General Relationship Discussion 15 02-27-2016 12:38 PM
Advice needed for leaving a situation I'm stuck in Mattlovescats Going Through Divorce or Separation 2 01-01-2016 04:07 PM
Feeling hopeless Wife22 Considering Divorce or Separation 2 12-11-2015 03:51 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome