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Old 12-24-2011, 02:27 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Married after 90 days, now 12 years later big problems

Hello all. I visit here from time to time. I started out in the "affairs" section. I posted there a few times.

I met my wife online, late August 1999. We quickly started emailing each other and late Sept 2009 I flew to her city for a visit. She told me during that visit the following: "Don't sweat it, I know you are going to ask me to marry you and when you do I'm going to say yes". Hey, I'm kinda shy, this kinda got my attention. We did get married on December 4. We still continued to live on opposite coasts (me on west, she on east) during the time before our marriage. Our communication then obviously consisted mostly of phone calls, a bit of email and some instant messaging on AOL.

Before we got married I started to have second thoughts. When I first saw pictures of her I wasn't like "Oh my God, she is so hot", or "Wow, she is really attractive". It was more, "well she's not ugly". I overlooked those thoughts because of her personality. She is VERY outgoing and puts herself out there. I'm very shy and introverted, or at least I have been in the past and certainly was during that time period. It was a few days before our wedding during counseling with the pastor that I had these thoughts. I was starting to wonder why I was there and had fleeting thoughts of calling a cab and catching a flight back home. However I figured this was the "cold feet" I had heard about so often and figured I shouldn't let my bride down. I would feel like such a loser to walk so close to the wedding. I felt by now that I was obligated to make good on my commitment.

After we were married things sort of settled down. We got started building a home (she moved back to my city). The main event that happened after my marriage was that a woman I had dated some years before showed back up in my city. She and I had remained in touch from time to time. I had been VERY attracted to her even though our relationship hadn't worked out when we were dating. I suddenly realized I was missing something with my wife. I had NEVER felt this way with her.

This relationship turned into an emotional affair for me that lasted several years but my fantasy about it got more intense from 2006 - 2010. What is interesting about this woman is that I don't think I would have ever been happy married to her had our relationship developed to that point originally. However, my attraction to her has been intense. My fantasy with her ended in early 2010 when she found a boyfriend and basically didn't have time for our relationship/friendship/whatever. During this time (early 2010) my wife and I were having a BAD few weeks. It ended with me leaving the house with my things. But she managed to talk me back into coming home. This started an almost two year journey that has been a nightmare to be quite frank.

I went to therapy, so did my wife. I finally confronted my shortcomings, learned what an emotional affair was, started to come out of my shell and became more assertive about being honest about my feelings.

My wife has been a vindictive person throughout our marriage, but it only occasionally was directed at me. Over the past year she has become increasingly bitter and angry. Of course she is hurt and sad. The anger she has directed at me has taken a toll on me. I've become apathetic and listless. I used to have some remorse, some guilt, whatever. Not any more.

She is also manipulative. Because she has this whole emotional affair thing to hang around my neck, I feel like I should submit to her manipulation. I've been fairly passive most of my life, trying to avoid conflict. Now I'm less passive. She doesn't like it. I've been reading books about boundaries, learning about my own needs and feelings, etc. She is upset that I am so interested in just defending myself.

There is so much more that has happened in the last 2 years that goes into this story, it is hard to explain it all. Currently I've allowed her to ban me from Facebook, taking my kids to see my parents, seeking help from the therapist who has helped me the most, studying certain topics from the Bible, thrown out pictures I had of my high school years (including photos of school functions with an old girl friend), destroyed my iPhone when she found a text she didn't like (I was discussing my troubles with a friend), among others. Just the other day she accused me of only trying to find new ways to hurt her.

I'm emotionally spent. She's hurt and angry beyond belief, yet she won't get help. She's scratched me and drawn blood, uses the most file and foul language in verbal assaults on me, tells our children things they should never hear (daddy wants to sleep with another in our house, your daddy doesn't love you any more, your daddy wants us to leave) and she has even had my 4 year old tell me on the phone that she hates me.

If there were no kids involved I'd be gone. But I feel like if I leave them with their mother, they will not be properly cared for. But me leaving is easier than trying to kick her out of the house without the kids. She has told me that I will have to have her hauled to jail before she lets me separate her from her kids.

Last fall when I moved out for a while she stalked me and I had to call the police to get her to leave the place where I was staying. I moved back home because I lost my job and couldn't afford to pay for rent/mortgage at two locations. So been back home since late October.

I could go on and on. I could live with her for the kids but she won't let me sleep at night. She crys like a wolf howling at night for 1 to 3 hours at a time. At times she starts yellowing out obscene profanities (our room is across the room from our youngest daughter). It is these nights that she doesn't want me in the room and I sleep in the guest room. But it's right under our bedroom and her crying and screaming either keeps me from sleeping or wakes me up. When I go and try to reason with her and tell her that her right to cry doesn't mean she has a right to keep everyone else in the house up, she then makes it all about me. She reminds me of what I did to her with the EA. She says the kids are sleeping fine. And if I insist I'm concerned about the kids, she then turns it around and reminds me that if I really cared about the health and wellbeing of the kids I wouldn't have been spending time with this other woman instead of being at home with the kids. Well of course she has a point about that. But again I feel like my concerns are being belittled and all that matters is what she is feeling. My needs be damned.

I guess I better stop and see if anyone has any comments or replies. Maybe I'm looking for permission to leave? Maybe I'm looking for something else. Maybe I just feel like I need to empty myself of my feelings in a place where I feel safe, not sure. I will say that I did tell myself recently that if she continued to call me a "f**ker, motherf**ker, f**king piece of s**t, etc", that I would remove myself from the situation and find another place to live. Well after a week or so of relative calm, she started up again recently.

HD
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Old 12-24-2011, 02:32 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Married after 90 days, now 12 years later big problems

Have you told all of this to your wife?
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Old 12-24-2011, 03:28 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Married after 90 days, now 12 years later big problems

Your wife needs to realize that her actions are distructive to the marriage and to your children. While your EA was wrong... what she is doing is wrong as well. She needs to allow you to do the necessary things to gain her trust. She's not allowing that.

When a person holds on to anger and hurt for the length of time she has, it means that the anger/hurt is giving them something they think they do not have without out it... it's giving her power... you took that away from her with your EA. So now she has regained it in a very distructive way.

Have you written her a letter with all of the things you have said here? If you want to do that, I'll bet the folks on this site would help you with that.

There are much better ways for you to handle her out bursts. You might want to read the book "The Dance of Anger". She should read it. But you reading it would help as well.

When she starts an outburst just tell her to stop. Put up your hand in a 'stop' sing and tell her to "STOP". Say it firmly but do not yell. If you need say it a few times. IF she does not stop and back off right then and there, take the kids and go to a quite room, or go for a walk... whatever you need to do to get away from her so that she has the time to calm herself down.

At some point you need to tell her that this is how you will handle it. And that she has to find a way to calm down. Exercise is the best way to calm down emotions. Maybe she could start going out for a walk when this happens. Or get a stationary bike for her.. she can watch TV and peddle to China and back to calm down.

This can all turn around, it would be hard but it can. You are the man of the house here and thus the spitual leader. Take up your role.
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Old 12-24-2011, 03:28 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Married after 90 days, now 12 years later big problems

Yes. We've discussed it but she is hard to talk to about it. She also got into my private diary and read everything I had written there. She saw it the summer of 2010. There's lots in there I haven't shared here because of the volume of info. Needless to say she brings it up regularly and throws it back in my face. I've been trying to be calm with her and not retaliate back. But there have been a few times when she has pushed me so hard that I have blown up at her verbally. But generally I do not reply in kind.
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Old 12-24-2011, 03:30 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Married after 90 days, now 12 years later big problems

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You might want to read the book "The Dance of Anger". She should read it. But you reading it would help as well.
I will check out the book, EleGirl. Thanks for the recommendation.
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Old 12-24-2011, 03:36 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Married after 90 days, now 12 years later big problems

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When a person holds on to anger and hurt for the length of time she has, it means that the anger/hurt is giving them something they think they do not have without out it... it's giving her power... you took that away from her with your EA. So now she has regained it in a very distructive way.
That's in interesting insight. Not sure if I had thought of if that way before, although I may have been introduced to the concept and forgotten it. My problem is that I forget stuff easily. When she comes at me with with the verbal tirade, I will get really upset and disgusted, but a day or two later my emotions have completely died down and I don't even remember how I felt, or so it seems. But I'm getting disgusted at myself for allowing myself to be bullied by her verbal assaults at me and her manipulation. She is extremely good at making me feel like s**t and thinking that everything is my fault. The I feel guilty and give in. Oh how I hate myself for falling under the pressure. But it seems I have no choice. However I've been reading the book "Boundaries" and have gotten some good insights into this in the chapter about boundaries in marriage. When I get a chance I'll look up the specific references that I found helpful and share them here.
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Old 12-24-2011, 03:52 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Married after 90 days, now 12 years later big problems

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Yes. We've discussed it but she is hard to talk to about it.
So if she is hard to talk to about thing, write what you have to say to her. Writing also give you a chance to think carefully about what you want to say and how you say it. I highly recommend that you write it out.

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She also got into my private diary and read everything I had written there. She saw it the summer of 2010.
Most betrayed spouses will do this for a very long time. In marriage, privacy is closing the bathroom door when you do your business. There is no other privacy in marriage. Everything is transparent in a healthy, passionate marriage.
To make her feel safe you should give her passwords to every account you have on the computer. She should give you hers as well.
Let her read your diaries. The sooner the better. Answer all her questions. She’ll probably ask every one of them many times… patiently answer them all, over and over. One of the things about an affair is that they are not a shared experience. In order for your wife to get her ‘power’ back as your wife she needs to get to the point where she feels she has shared the experience of the EA with you. I know it sounds odd, but as a BS (betrayed spouse) I can tell you it’s the only way you and she will get beyond your EA. It’s the only way she will give up her hurt and anger. Once she feels in control of her own life again she will stop asking questions, stop snooping much and move on.

You can by the way use your private diary as way to ‘talk to her’.

With this EA you never gave your wife the chance to meet your needs, not even to really be your wife. You took that away from you.
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There's lots in there I haven't shared here because of the volume of info. Needless to say she brings it up regularly a`nd throws it back in my face. I've been trying to be calm with her and not retaliate back. But there have been a few times when she has pushed me so hard that I have blown up at her verbally. But generally I do not reply in kind.
No ‘buts’ here. You HAVE to be 100% in control of your outbursts. Practice handing this in front of a mirror… imagine her blowing up at you and then go the “stop” routine… in front of the mirror. In your practice let your emotions flare, get instant control of them and handle the situation calmly. You can do it.
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Old 12-24-2011, 03:57 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Married after 90 days, now 12 years later big problems

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That's in interesting insight. Not sure if I had thought of if that way before, although I may have been introduced to the concept and forgotten it. My problem is that I forget stuff easily. When she comes at me with with the verbal tirade, I will get really upset and disgusted, but a day or two later my emotions have completely died down and I don't even remember how I felt, or so it seems. But I'm getting disgusted at myself for allowing myself to be bullied by her verbal assaults at me and her manipulation. She is extremely good at making me feel like s**t and thinking that everything is my fault. The I feel guilty and give in. Oh how I hate myself for falling under the pressure. But it seems I have no choice. However I've been reading the book "Boundaries" and have gotten some good insights into this in the chapter about boundaries in marriage. When I get a chance I'll look up the specific references that I found helpful and share them here.
Practice in handling this in front of the mirror... it worked for me. I practiced for days until the 'stop' routine became second mature to me. To this day, 16 years later, it's still my standard reaction to someone going off on me. I just do not allow it. Believe me the practice works and the approach works.

Athletes practice their moves for hours at a time until they are second nature. We can also use the same techniques to train ourselves to handle volatile situations in a way that defuses them.
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Old 12-25-2011, 12:48 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Married after 90 days, now 12 years later big problems

harlisondavidly, you are in an abusive relationship. And your wife walks all over your (non existing boundaries). She sounds like a controlling abuser.

Next time she attacks you, draws blood, etc. Take pictures, and call the police. And file a report for DV.

Regardless of your EA, your wife has no right to treat you like she does. Those things she does to you are not right. Your current situation, where she destroys your property. Controls

If you divorce, you should fight for 50/50 custody of the kids, if this is what you want. Your wife cannot keep you away from your kids. Only the court can. Of course, 50/50 is not something granted, and you have to prove it to the courts.

In either case you have two paths in front of you. Stay in your marriage, and try to fix it. For which you will need to set strong boundaries. Your wife sounds depressed, and possibly BPD. She needs help. But she must want to get help first. E whole screaming at night where your kids can hear her is really bad, and will affect your kids.

The other path is for you to pursue divorce. In this case, you dont tell your wife, you dont fight. Instead you prepare without letting her know, and when ready you file.
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Old 12-25-2011, 08:12 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Married after 90 days, now 12 years later big problems

Can we know more about you. Are you working at the moment. Is your wife. Has she ever worked. Why do you think she married you. What did she see in you. I suppose the children you talk of are from both of you. How is it affecting them. She seems to have proposed to you. May I ask how is your sex life, you dont tell us about it.
I dont think she wants you out. If anything she wants to keep you. It must have hurt her pride immensely that you went elsewhere after she thought she had you under her thumb. She cant forgive herself for that. She is really trying to hurt herself for that not you.
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Old 12-25-2011, 01:23 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I'm really appreciating all the feedback. I will post more info as it will help paint a more accurate picture. I will do so after Christmas, taking the day off and trying to have some peace. As long as I placate her she's fine. And today's a good day for all of us to take a break.
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Old 12-28-2011, 01:00 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Can we know more about you. Are you working at the moment. Is your wife. Has she ever worked. Why do you think she married you. What did she see in you. I suppose the children you talk of are from both of you. How is it affecting them. She seems to have proposed to you. May I ask how is your sex life, you dont tell us about it.
I dont think she wants you out. If anything she wants to keep you. It must have hurt her pride immensely that you went elsewhere after she thought she had you under her thumb. She cant forgive herself for that. She is really trying to hurt herself for that not you.
Here's a bit more to answer the questions you posed. I had been working but am currently unemployed. However I have also had a part time business that is ongoing and I have picked up unemployment checks for now. I am hoping to make my business full time during the newly found free time. My wife is not working, she has not worked since our first son was born. When she did work she went through 3 employers as I recall in about 3 years. She got into "problems" with other workers. She would come home and complain how they didn't like her or they were trying to make her look bad, etc. I don't think she got fired, but it's a long time ago.

One of the kids is our biological, the other is adopted.

As far as our sex life, she wants it more than I do, that's for sure. She'd be happy if we had sex every day. In fact she has told me in so many words that if I gave her as much sex as she wanted that she'd be a happy little wifey and give me no problems. She REALLY likes sex a lot. While I like it too, I'm not really attracted to her like that and I don't need sex every day. A couple times a week is plenty for me, although we typically were averaging about once a week over the course of the marriage.

As far as the marriage proposal situation, I would say she made it VERY EASY for me. She informed that when I asked she would say yes, so there was no anticipation or anything for me to get nervous about. She was very forward with me from the beginning. She told me right after we met online that she was NOT looking for friends, she had plenty of those, she was looking for a husband.

HD
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Old 12-28-2011, 01:12 PM   #13 (permalink)
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She certainly wants you. I dont know what kind of language you speak, but for a start you both have to STOP using bad language. You have to force this on her. I dont think you will find it too hard.
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Old 12-28-2011, 01:37 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Over the months while I have given her access to my computer and email accounts, she has taken the opportunity to delete things from my computer and my email. For example she has in the past sent me some of the most vile messages via email that you could imagine. I have a folder to keep her emails to me. When she accessed my computer she deleted all the emails that I had been collecting from her.

Just a few days ago she came to bed and told me she found a video on my computer that she disapproved of. It was a video given to me by a friend of a religious program. The friend was featured on the video singing several songs. This friend of mine is a woman and we have been friends for a long time. I knew my wife had problems with me having stuff with her image on it. I honestly didn't remember that I had the video. I have no idea how my wife keeps finding stuff. I'm supposed to be the computer expert, but I digress....

I came down to my computer in the office and find a nice letter sized sheet of paper with the words "She's beautiful, isn't she?" and right below that "F**K YOU". So I took the paper and put it into my folder that I keep with my laptop in a backpack. A couple of days ago she said she was going through my backpack and found the sheet of paper I had saved there. So a day or so later I go through my bag and I find that she has removed the paper and disposed of it.

I was encouraged by my therapist to keep this kind of thing. I guess I should have put it somewhere more secure.

My wife and I have discussed in the past that she is violating my boundaries by destroying my property. I give this as an example. I told her before that if she has a problem with something that she finds in my computer or elsewhere, she needs to come and tell me about it and then ask me to delete it. But again she thinks otherwise it seems.

She has thrown away pictures out of my photo album from my high school events that had old girlfriends in it. She has ruined nice clothing of mine to the point I had to throw it in the trash (she does this when she has gotten angry and told me to "get the h**l out"), she's destroyed my iPhone, my iMac (thankfully Apple replaced or repaired at no charge), crashed one of our cars into the other one with the kids in the back seat, and I could go on.

I am having trouble setting limits and sticking to them. I seem to forget stuff too easily. I understand that I am the one who had the EA. I'm getting help to understand why. But all this other stuff going on has really gotten me to an emotional point where I don't really care about her at all (in a spousal way at least). If there were no kids involved I'm sure I would have been gone long ago.

The foul language verbal abuse has gotten so normal to me now that I hardly give it a second thought. I'm getting disgusted with myself actually for being so callous to it. I'm feeling like I am in a fog and not sure what to do. I sometimes wonder if I have any soul any more, seems like I should care about her and I really don't. Makes me feel guilty to be honest.

HD
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Old 12-28-2011, 01:41 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I dont know if you read my previous post. You have to start somewhere. I gave an example which should not be too difficult. Youre not going to cure her in a day.
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