Dead end cul-de-sac - Page 2 - Talk About Marriage
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post #16 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-04-2017, 03:38 PM
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Re: Dead end cul-de-sac

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Originally Posted by thelitewentoff View Post
@Jessica38, In all fairness, I only mentioned I've been considering the option of divorce over the last year, however our marriage has not been all that great for several years now. As a matter of fact, I came close to divorcing her 7 years ago because of the same issues we are having now, but didn't for the sake of our children. It has been exhausting for me to get her involved with anything, and I have tried. And now too tired to try anymore.

You said: This is likely because she is not in love with you either. Women who are in love with their husbands WANT to spend time with them, and stay in shape for them, and have sex with them. This can be fixed, but it will require that you put in serious effort.

I agree 100% with the first part of your statement, but not so much your last sentence.
Why is it that you think it is me who needs to "put in the serious effort"? I have made every effort to salvage our marriage, made compromises, suggested counseling(she refused), been the good/faithful husband/father, and in return I get promises that are made on her part, only too soon to be broken, and she goes back to the same routine.

And then there's this comment: I said: There is no one else "waiting in the wings" for me for my relationship to end, but I am not afraid I will find love again.
You said: Are you sure? There is no female friend who's providing a listening ear?

I didn't join this forum to become a target of accusations of members on here. I've never cheated on my wife and wouldn't discuss my personal dirty laundry to anyone I know, female or male. Anyone who does that is a fool. (aka loose lips sink ships). I joined this forum in anonymity to find help with a difficult decision I am facing from others who have experienced similar circumstances, and to gain some knowledge on what to expect.

I appreciate your comments and the time you took to respond to my post. I'll check out the book you referred to as well for another point of view.
In bold, sir, I 100% agree. My W and I are the total opposite end of the spectrum comparing to your situation. Our kids are all but out of the house and on their own. My W and I work out together. We do things together all the time. We screw like rabbits. The kids being independent has been FREEING. We do as we wish and on any piece of furniture that we want! Reading your first post I would be looking to for a better future than what you have written about your current marriage.

I don't blame you for looking to split amicably. It takes both to make it work for each. Love, admiration, and respect make willing participants in a marriage. When I mean participation I mean in all things.

Concerning the kids, each are grown adults. They may not like it but they will certainly understand.

Only you can make you happy.

Good luck.


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post #17 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-04-2017, 03:40 PM
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Re: Dead end cul-de-sac

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30% sounds like a pretty low figure. My state is 50/50, AFAIK.
I'm a self made man. Been through some hard times, financially speaking in the past, but have always been able to rebound, and have been able to provide for my family.
Even if it is 50/50, happiness is more important to me than the money, just so I keep my sanity. Besides, she was there for 28 years too. The last thing I want to do is go through a messy divorce with spending a ton of money in the process.
Why do you expect only 30%?
It most definitely isn't going to be 50/50. I have been told by MANY lawyers there are ways that women get up to 70% and almost always do. If she fights this even half way vigorously, which she probable will do, that's what she'll get. I've been researching this for years and have paid thousands to lawyers and I know what I'm talking about, trust me if there was a way I could leave my marriage and afford an apartment I would have already done it years ago. However, I'm not going to get divorced and leave myself poor. I'm self-made to, nobody gave me a damned thing my whole life and that's part of the reason I'm not going to let a divorce make me poor. If you do decide to get divorced it WILL be messy and you are going to spend a ton of money defending yourself. Courts don't take kindly to men in their 50's who want to divorce their wives.

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post #18 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-04-2017, 03:47 PM
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Re: Dead end cul-de-sac

50-50 is pretty standard in a divorce. She might ask for and get awarded alimony, and that could account for greater than 50%. But she might not qualify for it either, especially if she's working and making an approximately equal income as you. Personally, if you are sure you want a divorce then go meet with a lawyer and file. Your kids are old enough to ask and expect for the truth from you, so be prepared to be honest with them.
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post #19 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-04-2017, 03:58 PM
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Re: Dead end cul-de-sac

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Just joined this forum to maybe get some advice, suggestions and/or feedback from people in similar a situation as mine.
My wife and I have been married for 28 years, both in our early 50's, raised two beautiful, smart, wise children, with one already out of college and on the way to success, and the other graduating in a year. We both work with above average incomes, own several pieces of property, and still go on family vacations together when all our schedules can work.
Sounds great, huh? Well as the old adage goes, you can't judge a book by its cover.
I have been contemplating separation/divorce for a year now, and I'm at the point I know in my heart, as bad as it may sound, I am not in love with my wife any longer.
The number one reason for me is that there is 0.0% sex in our relationship. I have tried too many time to be the pursuer, i.e.: romantic dinners, weekend get a way's, etc., with getting back nothing at all. No, I don't have ED, and everything works fine down there. Additionally, I have tried my best to stay in shape, have tried to encourage her to join me, but she refuses to participate and has let herself go by gaining weight, and never wanting to do anything with me.
Other issues that have become more of a routine with our marriage is the constant disagreements on finances. As mentioned above, we earn a good living. I don't get it. Sometimes I think it's because of a control issue she wants in our relationship. Who knows?
With all that said, and I could say more, I am pretty sure it is over. I do not want to try couples therapy because I know I'm not interested.
I believe the conclusion I've made is that our relationship is beyond repair, and I don't want to spend the rest of my days on this planet in a miserable relationship with someone I do not love. One of my biggest concerns with this decision is how our kids will look at me as being the one who wanted the divorce? Will they hate me? That would crush me.
There is no one else "waiting in the wings" for me for my relationship to end, but I am not afraid I will find love again.

So there you have it. You can throw stones at me, agree or disagree with my thoughts. As mentioned above, I'm looking for advise. Please chime in.....
No its not beyond repair if you are both wiling to work at things, compromise and get some good marriage counseling.
Your children and probably your wife will be devastated, as will the wider family. You may even loose the relationship you have with the children when they see how much you are hurting their mum. Older children will often take sides. You are giving you wife no chance at all to try and change things. Just springing this on her is very cruel. You need to communicate with her about how desperate you feel about your issues and that things are so bad that you are even thinking of ending the marriage.

A marriage isn't something to throw away like a piece of rubbish, you made vows and promises, so be man enough to keep them and at least give it a year of real effort and counseling before you take the easy way out. You owe you wife and children that much.

Last edited by Diana7; 04-04-2017 at 04:14 PM.
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post #20 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-04-2017, 03:59 PM
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Re: Dead end cul-de-sac

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@Jessica38, In all fairness, I only mentioned I've been considering the option of divorce over the last year, however our marriage has not been all that great for several years now. As a matter of fact, I came close to divorcing her 7 years ago because of the same issues we are having now, but didn't for the sake of our children. It has been exhausting for me to get her involved with anything, and I have tried. And now too tired to try anymore.

You said: This is likely because she is not in love with you either. Women who are in love with their husbands WANT to spend time with them, and stay in shape for them, and have sex with them. This can be fixed, but it will require that you put in serious effort.

I agree 100% with the first part of your statement, but not so much your last sentence.
Why is it that you think it is me who needs to "put in the serious effort"? I have made every effort to salvage our marriage, made compromises, suggested counseling(she refused), been the good/faithful husband/father, and in return I get promises that are made on her part, only too soon to be broken, and she goes back to the same routine.

And then there's this comment: I said: There is no one else "waiting in the wings" for me for my relationship to end, but I am not afraid I will find love again.
You said: Are you sure? There is no female friend who's providing a listening ear?

I didn't join this forum to become a target of accusations of members on here. I've never cheated on my wife and wouldn't discuss my personal dirty laundry to anyone I know, female or male. Anyone who does that is a fool. (aka loose lips sink ships). I joined this forum in anonymity to find help with a difficult decision I am facing from others who have experienced similar circumstances, and to gain some knowledge on what to expect.

I appreciate your comments and the time you took to respond to my post. I'll check out the book you referred to as well for another point of view.
Let me now how u make out iam in same boat


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post #21 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-04-2017, 04:07 PM
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Re: Dead end cul-de-sac

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In bold, sir, I 100% agree. My W and I are the total opposite end of the spectrum comparing to your situation. Our kids are all but out of the house and on their own. My W and I work out together. We do things together all the time. We screw like rabbits. The kids being independent has been FREEING. We do as we wish and on any piece of furniture that we want! Reading your first post I would be looking to for a better future than what you have written about your current marriage.

I don't blame you for looking to split amicably. It takes both to make it work for each. Love, admiration, and respect make willing participants in a marriage. When I mean participation I mean in all things.

Concerning the kids, each are grown adults. They may not like it but they will certainly understand.

Only you can make you happy.

Good luck.
Adult children are just as devastated by their parents divorcing as younger ones, especially if they had no idea anything is wrong. I dont think they will understand, what they will see is their dad abandoning their mum and in effect them as well.
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post #22 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-04-2017, 04:54 PM
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Re: Dead end cul-de-sac

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You're gonna get a lot of women who come on here and blame you. They will tell YOU to "try harder" or that you "are shallow" and "marriage is deeper than sex.
I won’t tell him that because I have been in the exact same situation with the genders reversed.

@Jessica38 … some of us do not act like monkeys swinging from branch-to-branch needing a “new branch” before letting go of the old one. And, OP does not have a marriage to “throw away” rather he has a financial living arrangement, you know a roommate.

OP, only you know what you have done in an effort to improve yourself and your marriage over the years. There is no “magic other” remedy to try that you have not thought of … BTW, I came to TAM originally looking for the same thing. You cannot change her, force her to go to MC or keep her promises. You only have control of yourself. And, the only way to recover a broken marriage is if both partners want to do the work required. You cannot do it by yourself.

Like you I stayed in a sexless marriage for my child and then left once she was in university and doing well on her own. I also slowly lost any romantic love I had for my exH. It’s to be expected because love does not thrive without being nurtured. If I, as a woman, cannot maintain love and connection with my partner inside a sexual desert then I certainly do not expect that a man can do it … especially not in the long term. Think about this: your wife (and my exH) knew what we needed, knew the agony we endured and, simply didn’t care enough to do anything about it or even compromise. That is not love; that is selfishness in the extreme.

Your obligation to your family is over and your wife clearly does not want to participate in a true marriage. You get to decide now what type of life you want to have and ignore anyone who tries to guilt you for it.
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post #23 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-04-2017, 04:58 PM
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Re: Dead end cul-de-sac

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Adult children are just as devastated by their parents divorcing as younger ones, especially if they had no idea anything is wrong. I dont think they will understand, what they will see is their dad abandoning their mum and in effect them as well.
Not always and, not if they know the truth of the situation. My daughter was over-joyed when I left her father.
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post #24 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-04-2017, 05:00 PM
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Re: Dead end cul-de-sac

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One thing to consider, you're going to get crucified in the divorce. Go to a lawyer and look at some actual numbers but you can expect to only get 30% of everything. If you want to live off of that go for it. I'm in a similar situation but can't get divorced because I wouldn't be able to live on my share of the settlement.
No, it's a 50/50 split in most jurisdictions.

I've seen your back posts @jb02157, you're afraid to divorce because you have an unrealistic view of the legal system and perhaps not enough money to live on your own regardless of how things get divied up. Anyway, divorce is bad but not that bad - especially if the split is amicable-, and when there are no minor children both parties are on relatively even footing although if he's the breadwinner (it's not specified in his post that I can see) he may be paying spousal support for a while unless he can build it into the settlement, but that's not always a good idea because she can always blow through it and then go back for more.
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post #25 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-04-2017, 05:02 PM
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Re: Dead end cul-de-sac

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Adult children are just as devastated by their parents divorcing as younger ones.
Um.. no.

Adult children have their own family and support systems in place, they are much more emotionally and physically mature than children, they probably aren't even living under the same ROOF as their parents, and as a result, they are not NEARLY as affected as a young child will be when their parents split up.

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post #26 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-04-2017, 05:02 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Dead end cul-de-sac

My kids are both in their 20's and I am sure they will be devastated. With that said, they are both adults, and unfortunately have witnessed the ugliness of our strained marriage.
I do not know how much of a surprise it will be to them. As mentioned earlier, 7 years ago divorce was being considered.
At that time, they were old enough to understand what was going on, even though they were in only their teens.
If we have the discussion concerning divorce today, I think they will handle it better, just because they have grown up.
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post #27 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-04-2017, 05:02 PM
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Re: Dead end cul-de-sac

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I won’t tell him that because I have been in the exact same situation with the genders reversed.

@Jessica38 … some of us do not act like monkeys swinging from branch-to-branch needing a “new branch” before letting go of the old one. And, OP does not have a marriage to “throw away” rather he has a financial living arrangement, you know a roommate.

I completely agree with you and in many cases, women WILL leave if they are neglected in marriage without a partner waiting in the wings. Women will put up with A LOT but neglect is the number 1 reason why many women leave.

OP, only you know what you have done in an effort to improve yourself and your marriage over the years. There is no “magic other” remedy to try that you have not thought of … BTW, I came to TAM originally looking for the same thing. You cannot change her, force her to go to MC or keep her promises. You only have control of yourself. And, the only way to recover a broken marriage is if both partners want to do the work required. You cannot do it by yourself.

No, he can't, but there are things to try before fully giving up.

Like you I stayed in a sexless marriage for my child and then left once she was in university and doing well on her own. I also slowly lost any romantic love I had for my exH. It’s to be expected because love does not thrive without being nurtured. If I, as a woman, cannot maintain love and connection with my partner inside a sexual desert then I certainly do not expect that a man can do it … especially not in the long term. Think about this: your wife (and my exH) knew what we needed, knew the agony we endured and, simply didn’t care enough to do anything about it or even compromise. That is not love; that is selfishness in the extreme.

Many men will stay in an unsatisfying marriage though, unless they have a new point of comparison. Certainly not ALL men, but as you probably know by now, I'm a fan of Dr. Harley and he says in his clinical practice that if a man wants to leave his wife, his wife should investigate the possibility of another woman. In this case, I still see the OP willing to give it his best shot and I think he may have a chance. Dr. Harley also finds in his clinical practice that it is harder for a woman to convince a neglectful husband to work with her to improve the marriage, and that a husband usually has more success when trying to convince his wife. Of course, I'm only sharing what I know. Marriage Builders is certainly not right for everyone, but I do think in this case it is helpful to share what I know and have learned from Dr. Harley. He really helped me learn how to approach my neglectful husband and that I have every right to expect my needs to be met in my marriage. His plan helped us improve, and that made a big difference to me (and us).

Your obligation to your family is over and your wife clearly does not want to participate in a true marriage. You get to decide now what type of life you want to have and ignore anyone who tries to guilt you for it.
If this was meant for me, I'm in no way trying to guilt anyone in anything, though I disagree that his marriage is over as he is not yet divorced.
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post #28 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-04-2017, 05:18 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Dead end cul-de-sac

@Red Sonja,
I'm glad you posted these comments.(below) A woman's point of view who understands!
The word "roommate" has been thrown around a few times in my home.
I'm surprised you picked up on that

OP does not have a marriage to “throw away” rather he has a financial living arrangement, you know a roommate.

OP, only you know what you have done in an effort to improve yourself and your marriage over the years. There is no “magic other” remedy to try that you have not thought of … BTW, I came to TAM originally looking for the same thing. You cannot change her, force her to go to MC or keep her promises. You only have control of yourself. And, the only way to recover a broken marriage is if both partners want to do the work required. You cannot do it by yourself

If I, as a woman, cannot maintain love and connection with my partner inside a sexual desert then I certainly do not expect that a man can do it … especially not in the long term. Think about this: your wife (and my exH) knew what we needed, knew the agony we endured and, simply didn’t care enough to do anything about it or even compromise. That is not love; that is selfishness in the extreme.
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post #29 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-04-2017, 06:20 PM
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Re: Dead end cul-de-sac

The lite did not go out.

The lite came on. You see the light. Get a divorce. Find a partner that suits your purpose, and you, hers.

We come this way but once.



>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
by Bob Proctor

We come this way but once.
We can either tiptoe through life
and hope we get to death without being badly bruised
or we can live a full, complete life achieving
our goals and realizing our wildest dreams.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

My best friend had this epithet as his email heading.

"I only come this way once.
When I die, I hope they put my battered and bruised body in my
Coffin in a heap. Not laid out stiff and proper.
Because that is the way that I lived, and that is the way that
I should die and be buried."


He died at the age of 58, his brains smashed against the tarmac.

The winds at ground level were 30 knots.
His parachute landed him sideways. And it thumped him up and
down a half dozen times before the ground crew could leap on top
of him and keep him still and the air pulled out from the wayward chute.

I landed a 1/4 mile away from the drop zone. The wind took me away
and made me a rag doll suspended by 30 lines to my T-10D.

By the time I hiked to the inverted "L" he was hauled off to the hospital.
He was dead within the hour.

He got his wish in life.
In death, his very long and large form would not fit in a standard coffin.
They laid him out straight and proper.

That was a very sad day for me.
For him, he died as he lived.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

For you OP, get yourself free. Treat your wife with great respect but leave her.
Leave her straight and proper.
That is the way that she lived.
You cannot change that.

This....This is the nub of the stick that pokes me in the eye when the light of day energizes my optic nerve....SunCMars.... The Allegory of the Cave--> On this, I did a '180' and stepped out.

The Lion in Winter. Invictus..By Will, Shall... Saved from harm by my friends.
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post #30 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-04-2017, 06:47 PM
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Re: Dead end cul-de-sac

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Originally Posted by thelitewentoff View Post
You said: This is likely because she is not in love with you either. Women who are in love with their husbands WANT to spend time with them, and stay in shape for them, and have sex with them. This can be fixed, but it will require that you put in serious effort.

I agree 100% with the first part of your statement, but not so much your last sentence.
Why is it that you think it is me who needs to "put in the serious effort"? I have made every effort to salvage our marriage, made compromises, suggested counseling(she refused), been the good/faithful husband/father, and in return I get promises that are made on her part, only too soon to be broken, and she goes back to the same routine.
The reason she said that you would have to put in the effort is because you are the one who is here. Since your wife is not here, we cannot talk to her. People here might be suggesting things for you to try. However, in the end it would have to be both of you putting in the effort.

Have you sat your wife down and told her that you are seriously thinking of divorce and why?

How many hours a week of quality time do you and your wife spend together, just the two. That means with no children, friends or family?

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