Dead end cul-de-sac - Talk About Marriage
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post #1 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-03-2017, 01:31 PM Thread Starter
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Dead end cul-de-sac

Just joined this forum to maybe get some advice, suggestions and/or feedback from people in similar a situation as mine.
My wife and I have been married for 28 years, both in our early 50's, raised two beautiful, smart, wise children, with one already out of college and on the way to success, and the other graduating in a year. We both work with above average incomes, own several pieces of property, and still go on family vacations together when all our schedules can work.
Sounds great, huh? Well as the old adage goes, you can't judge a book by its cover.
I have been contemplating separation/divorce for a year now, and I'm at the point I know in my heart, as bad as it may sound, I am not in love with my wife any longer.
The number one reason for me is that there is 0.0% sex in our relationship. I have tried too many time to be the pursuer, i.e.: romantic dinners, weekend get a way's, etc., with getting back nothing at all. No, I don't have ED, and everything works fine down there. Additionally, I have tried my best to stay in shape, have tried to encourage her to join me, but she refuses to participate and has let herself go by gaining weight, and never wanting to do anything with me.
Other issues that have become more of a routine with our marriage is the constant disagreements on finances. As mentioned above, we earn a good living. I don't get it. Sometimes I think it's because of a control issue she wants in our relationship. Who knows?
With all that said, and I could say more, I am pretty sure it is over. I do not want to try couples therapy because I know I'm not interested.
I believe the conclusion I've made is that our relationship is beyond repair, and I don't want to spend the rest of my days on this planet in a miserable relationship with someone I do not love. One of my biggest concerns with this decision is how our kids will look at me as being the one who wanted the divorce? Will they hate me? That would crush me.
There is no one else "waiting in the wings" for me for my relationship to end, but I am not afraid I will find love again.

So there you have it. You can throw stones at me, agree or disagree with my thoughts. As mentioned above, I'm looking for advise. Please chime in.....

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post #2 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-03-2017, 01:40 PM
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Re: Dead end cul-de-sac

Well I can say I know how you feel. From the start of our problems I tried to do anything and everything to romance her and make her feel special, but nothing worked. For the past almost 2 years now I have been trying, for the last 2 months or so though I've been working more on myself and my relationship with our young son more then the relationship. Things have become more civil, but it's still not a marriage, she just doesn't want to seem to make an effort towards anything. And lately I've been asking myself the same question, Is it all worth it? I do love her but I'm not sure if I'm in love with her anymore, I mean how can you really be in love with someone who dismisses everything you say or do and withdraw every time there's an argument. It's a really crappy feeling but I think my patience to see if she comes around is almost done.
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post #3 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-03-2017, 01:58 PM
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Re: Dead end cul-de-sac

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Originally Posted by thelitewentoff View Post
Just joined this forum to maybe get some advice, suggestions and/or feedback from people in similar a situation as mine.
My wife and I have been married for 28 years, both in our early 50's, raised two beautiful, smart, wise children, with one already out of college and on the way to success, and the other graduating in a year. We both work with above average incomes, own several pieces of property, and still go on family vacations together when all our schedules can work.
Sounds great, huh? Well as the old adage goes, you can't judge a book by its cover.
I have been contemplating separation/divorce for a year now, and I'm at the point I know in my heart, as bad as it may sound, I am not in love with my wife any longer.

Are you willing to do the work to get your love for your wife back? It is possible, but it will require that you initiate the work to lead her to a more fulfilling marriage.

The number one reason for me is that there is 0.0% sex in our relationship. I have tried too many time to be the pursuer, i.e.: romantic dinners, weekend get a way's, etc., with getting back nothing at all. No, I don't have ED, and everything works fine down there. Additionally, I have tried my best to stay in shape, have tried to encourage her to join me, but she refuses to participate and has let herself go by gaining weight, and never wanting to do anything with me.

This is likely because she is not in love with you either. Women who are in love with their husbands WANT to spend time with them, and stay in shape for them, and have sex with them. This can be fixed, but it will require that you put in serious effort.

Other issues that have become more of a routine with our marriage is the constant disagreements on finances. As mentioned above, we earn a good living. I don't get it. Sometimes I think it's because of a control issue she wants in our relationship. Who knows?

You really need to find out. Why would you be willing to walk away from a 28-yr marriage without knowing what is wrong and attempting to fix it?

With all that said, and I could say more, I am pretty sure it is over. I do not want to try couples therapy because I know I'm not interested.

Then you're willing to throw away your marriage without trying to fix it.

I believe the conclusion I've made is that our relationship is beyond repair, and I don't want to spend the rest of my days on this planet in a miserable relationship with someone I do not love. One of my biggest concerns with this decision is how our kids will look at me as being the one who wanted the divorce? Will they hate me? That would crush me.
Then choose to stay instead and try to regain the love you had for your wife.
There is no one else "waiting in the wings" for me for my relationship to end, but I am not afraid I will find love again.

Are you sure? There is no female friend who's providing a listening ear?

So there you have it. You can throw stones at me, agree or disagree with my thoughts. As mentioned above, I'm looking for advise. Please chime in.....
If you want to save your marriage, I'd recommend licensed clinical psychologist Dr. Harley at Marriage Builders. He has helped thousands of couples who have fallen out of love regain the romance in their marriages. He does not focus on the past and offers a concrete plan for helping couples fall back in love. It requires committing to at least 15 hours/week of 1 on 1 time together meeting the top 4 most important intimate emotional needs: intimate conversation, affection, recreational companionship, and sex. I know you said your wife is not interested, so you'll need help getting her on board. I'd recommend you download his book His Needs, Her Needs and read it yourself first. You'll find that your situation is VERY COMMON and can be turned around pretty quickly, if you're willing and able to do the plan. Then, while you're holding up your end and planning things to do with your wife that you know she will enjoy, I'd ask her to read the book too. If she refuses, I'd recommend going to the Marriage Builders forum for ideas on how to motivate your wife. Typically, when the husband is willing to do the work and plan fun dates and commit to 15 hours a week, the plan is successful in repairing the marriage and helping the couple fall back in love. But you've got to want it more than divorce.
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post #4 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-03-2017, 01:59 PM
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Re: Dead end cul-de-sac

Sadly, your problem is all too common, and rarely has a happy ending. I was in the same situation, and tried everything, including marriage counseling and everything else imaginable (romantic gestures, getting in shape, etc.) - nothing made any difference for more than a week or two. I tried individual therapy, and came to the conclusion that it was her, not me, and that nothing would change. I left very shortly after that, and never looked back (except for our son). Yes, there is always one more thing you can try - there's no shortage of ideas. At some point you have to decide that another failure isn't worth the effort, and even if you succeed at long last, the reward is likely to be pale shadow of what you truly want.

My life has been immeasurably better ever since. Even the stress of actually separating and divorcing was less than the daily stress of living in a loveless, sexless marriage. I had hope again; I had a future of my own making to look forward to.

Love is an ideal thing; marriage is a real thing; a confusion of the real with the ideal never goes unpunished. - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

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post #5 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-04-2017, 01:57 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Dead end cul-de-sac

@Jessica38, In all fairness, I only mentioned I've been considering the option of divorce over the last year, however our marriage has not been all that great for several years now. As a matter of fact, I came close to divorcing her 7 years ago because of the same issues we are having now, but didn't for the sake of our children. It has been exhausting for me to get her involved with anything, and I have tried. And now too tired to try anymore.

You said: This is likely because she is not in love with you either. Women who are in love with their husbands WANT to spend time with them, and stay in shape for them, and have sex with them. This can be fixed, but it will require that you put in serious effort.

I agree 100% with the first part of your statement, but not so much your last sentence.
Why is it that you think it is me who needs to "put in the serious effort"? I have made every effort to salvage our marriage, made compromises, suggested counseling(she refused), been the good/faithful husband/father, and in return I get promises that are made on her part, only too soon to be broken, and she goes back to the same routine.

And then there's this comment: I said: There is no one else "waiting in the wings" for me for my relationship to end, but I am not afraid I will find love again.
You said: Are you sure? There is no female friend who's providing a listening ear?

I didn't join this forum to become a target of accusations of members on here. I've never cheated on my wife and wouldn't discuss my personal dirty laundry to anyone I know, female or male. Anyone who does that is a fool. (aka loose lips sink ships). I joined this forum in anonymity to find help with a difficult decision I am facing from others who have experienced similar circumstances, and to gain some knowledge on what to expect.

I appreciate your comments and the time you took to respond to my post. I'll check out the book you referred to as well for another point of view.
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post #6 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-04-2017, 02:07 PM
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Re: Dead end cul-de-sac

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Originally Posted by thelitewentoff View Post
The number one reason for me is that there is 0.0% sex in our relationship. I have tried too many time to be the pursuer, i.e.: romantic dinners, weekend get a way's, etc., with getting back nothing at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thelitewentoff View Post
Additionally, I have tried my best to stay in shape, have tried to encourage her to join me, but she refuses to participate and has let herself go by gaining weight, and never wanting to do anything with me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thelitewentoff View Post
I don't want to spend the rest of my days on this planet in a miserable relationship with someone I do not love.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thelitewentoff View Post
Please chime in.....
You're gonna get a lot of women who come on here and blame you. They will tell YOU to "try harder" or that you "are shallow" and "marriage is deeper than sex."

BULLCRAP.

Your "wife" needs to PUT SOME DAMN EFFORT into YOU. You've done enough from what I've read. No sex? Giving up on putting in effort? She's BEGGING you for a divorce.

OBLIGE HER.

Take it from me first hand friend. Plenty of women your age would be FALLING OVER themselves for a guy like you. Stop eating McDonald's when steak is waiting for you.

“When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time.” - Maya Angelou
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post #7 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-04-2017, 02:13 PM
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Re: Dead end cul-de-sac

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Originally Posted by thelitewentoff View Post

So there you have it. You can throw stones at me, agree or disagree with my thoughts. As mentioned above, I'm looking for advise. Please chime in.....
It appears that you have made up your mind. Are you looking for disagreement or for someone to tell you what you're doing is okay? What kind of advice are you looking for? How to tell your wife it's over? How to tell the kids? What to expect in a divorce?

Most often people in your situation have an interest in someone of the opposite sex who is serving as a catalyst to ending the marriage. That's why you were asked if you have someone in mind. It's not an accusation. It was just a simple question so people have a clear understanding of your situation.

If you are wanting to know if it's okay to divorce your wife for being unconcerned about your needs and not participating in having an emotionally and physically intimate relationship with you, I would say that you have good reason to be considering divorce.

First off, it's important to understand what your rights and responsibilities will be in a divorce. Buy a book on divorce in your state, read it thoroughly, and then you will be ready to make some decisions.

When you are ready to tell your wife, sit her down in a quiet location with no listening ears and tell her that you are filing for divorce. Give her the book you bought and tell her to read it so she understands what is going to happen and so you both know what is fair and reasonable. She might not read it, but at least you gave her the option. You are not asking for a divorce. You are telling her that you two are getting divorced. If she asks why, tell her that you already told her that you are unhappy and as she did nothing to help resolve your marriage issues you are done being married to her. If she offers to make changes, tell her she said that before and that's why you are now getting a divorce. She didn't follow through, so her time is up.

For more on my marriage philosophies check out the marriage section of my website:
The Feminine Review

Standard Evidence Thread: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-...ence-post.html
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post #8 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-04-2017, 02:44 PM
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Re: Dead end cul-de-sac

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Originally Posted by Jessica38 View Post
Originally Posted by thelitewentoff View Post
Just joined this forum to maybe get some advice, suggestions and/or feedback from people in similar a situation as mine.
My wife and I have been married for 28 years, both in our early 50's, raised two beautiful, smart, wise children, with one already out of college and on the way to success, and the other graduating in a year. We both work with above average incomes, own several pieces of property, and still go on family vacations together when all our schedules can work.
Sounds great, huh? Well as the old adage goes, you can't judge a book by its cover.
I have been contemplating separation/divorce for a year now, and I'm at the point I know in my heart, as bad as it may sound, I am not in love with my wife any longer.

Are you willing to do the work to get your love for your wife back? It is possible, but it will require that you initiate the work to lead her to a more fulfilling marriage.

The number one reason for me is that there is 0.0% sex in our relationship. I have tried too many time to be the pursuer, i.e.: romantic dinners, weekend get a way's, etc., with getting back nothing at all. No, I don't have ED, and everything works fine down there. Additionally, I have tried my best to stay in shape, have tried to encourage her to join me, but she refuses to participate and has let herself go by gaining weight, and never wanting to do anything with me.

This is likely because she is not in love with you either. Women who are in love with their husbands WANT to spend time with them, and stay in shape for them, and have sex with them. This can be fixed, but it will require that you put in serious effort.

Other issues that have become more of a routine with our marriage is the constant disagreements on finances. As mentioned above, we earn a good living. I don't get it. Sometimes I think it's because of a control issue she wants in our relationship. Who knows?

You really need to find out. Why would you be willing to walk away from a 28-yr marriage without knowing what is wrong and attempting to fix it?

With all that said, and I could say more, I am pretty sure it is over. I do not want to try couples therapy because I know I'm not interested.

Then you're willing to throw away your marriage without trying to fix it.

I believe the conclusion I've made is that our relationship is beyond repair, and I don't want to spend the rest of my days on this planet in a miserable relationship with someone I do not love. One of my biggest concerns with this decision is how our kids will look at me as being the one who wanted the divorce? Will they hate me? That would crush me.
Then choose to stay instead and try to regain the love you had for your wife.
There is no one else "waiting in the wings" for me for my relationship to end, but I am not afraid I will find love again.

Are you sure? There is no female friend who's providing a listening ear?

So there you have it. You can throw stones at me, agree or disagree with my thoughts. As mentioned above, I'm looking for advise. Please chime in.....
If you want to save your marriage, I'd recommend licensed clinical psychologist Dr. Harley at Marriage Builders. He has helped thousands of couples who have fallen out of love regain the romance in their marriages. He does not focus on the past and offers a concrete plan for helping couples fall back in love. It requires committing to at least 15 hours/week of 1 on 1 time together meeting the top 4 most important intimate emotional needs: intimate conversation, affection, recreational companionship, and sex. I know you said your wife is not interested, so you'll need help getting her on board. I'd recommend you download his book His Needs, Her Needs and read it yourself first. You'll find that your situation is VERY COMMON and can be turned around pretty quickly, if you're willing and able to do the plan. Then, while you're holding up your end and planning things to do with your wife that you know she will enjoy, I'd ask her to read the book too. If she refuses, I'd recommend going to the Marriage Builders forum for ideas on how to motivate your wife. Typically, when the husband is willing to do the work and plan fun dates and commit to 15 hours a week, the plan is successful in repairing the marriage and helping the couple fall back in love. But you've got to want it more than divorce.
This is awesome advice.[/SARCASM]

Why should the husband make all the effort to persuade the wife to love him again? Presumably if it doesn't work then he must just try harder?

Why must he lead her into a more fulfilling marriage? A marriage is supposed to be a partnership between two people, they are both equally responsible for the relationship and both equally responsible for meeting the others wants and needs.

"Women who are in love with their husbands WANT to spend time with them, and stay in shape for them, and have sex with them." - in a perfect world maybe but that is not reality, either for women or men. There are many who have no interest in staying in shape for or having any form of intimate relationship with their partners.

The situation can only be turned around if both partners want to turn it around. You seem to put all the blame for the problems and responsibility for fixing them on to the husband. One person can't fix a relationship.
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post #9 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-04-2017, 02:54 PM
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Re: Dead end cul-de-sac

One thing to consider, you're going to get crucified in the divorce. Go to a lawyer and look at some actual numbers but you can expect to only get 30% of everything. If you want to live off of that go for it. I'm in a similar situation but can't get divorced because I wouldn't be able to live on my share of the settlement.

"I've paid double for every transgression I've ever made and that motel and that boat are little to ask for"
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post #10 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-04-2017, 02:55 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Dead end cul-de-sac

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Originally Posted by CynthiaDe View Post
It appears that you have made up your mind. Are you looking for disagreement or for someone to tell you what you're doing is okay? What kind of advice are you looking for? How to tell your wife it's over? How to tell the kids? What to expect in a divorce?

All of the above!
CynthiaDe, Thanks for actually reading my post and not reading between the lines
I sort of would like to hear more opinions from a woman's point of view to help me understand and sort this out with a clearer mindset.
After 28 years, I know it's a lifetime I plan to end, but the uncertainty of what the future has in store is a little overwhelming.

First off, it's important to understand what your rights and responsibilities will be in a divorce. Buy a book on divorce in your state, read it thoroughly, and then you will be ready to make some decisions.

When you are ready to tell your wife, sit her down in a quiet location with no listening ears and tell her that you are filing for divorce. Give her the book you bought and tell her to read it so she understands what is going to happen and so you both know what is fair and reasonable. She might not read it, but at least you gave her the option. You are not asking for a divorce. You are telling her that you two are getting divorced. If she asks why, tell her that you already told her that you are unhappy and as she did nothing to help resolve your marriage issues you are done being married to her. If she offers to make changes, tell her she said that before and that's why you are now getting a divorce. She didn't follow through, so her time is up.
Great advice on the book and also giving it to her to read as well. I didn't think of that.

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post #11 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-04-2017, 03:03 PM
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Re: Dead end cul-de-sac

Sorry to hear where you find yourself. All too common. You definitely have "cause" for divorcing your wife. Your choice whether to act on it immediately.

You might give her one last chance. Offer to counsel with the Harleys. Or go to a Retrouvaille weekend. Or go to the Gottman Instititute. She can pick. Tell her if she does none of them, you are filing for divorce. See how she reacts. Have a date in your mind when you will file if she does not work at reconciling. Do not tell her the date you picked.

Definitely see a lawyer. Finances will be a setback because savings will be halved. But sounds like you are comfortable and can manage. Much easier to contemplate with the kids out of the jhouse and not having to worry about custody or some other guy raising your kids. There is a reason that Grey Divorce is such a big thing these days.

When you can see it coming, duck!
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post #12 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-04-2017, 03:04 PM
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Re: Dead end cul-de-sac

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Great advice on the book and also giving it to her to read as well. I didn't think of that.
She's not going to read the book, she's going to keep doing what she's been doing, being a refuser, and expect to get away with it. She's going to emerge after the divorce a rich woman with practically all of your money. I bet she already knows this. She's been to a lawyer and been told she's going to do just fine.

"I've paid double for every transgression I've ever made and that motel and that boat are little to ask for"
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post #13 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-04-2017, 03:12 PM
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Re: Dead end cul-de-sac

I agree she won't read the book, but it's the thought that counts. Start off with an attitude of working together on this and it could make her feel a lot more comfortable feeling like you are not hiding anything from her, but want to get this resolved quickly and fairly for both of you.

I don't think she is going to end up with practically all your money either. It will be an equitable split if you are well prepared. There are plenty of women that get the raw end of the deal in divorce as well. Just make sure you read about this before you listen to anything an attorney tells you. I've seen too many attorneys take people's money and not do a damn thing they were paid for. Not all attorneys are like this, but the system is corrupt. The more you know, the better off you are paying an attorney to do only what you tell them to do.

For more on my marriage philosophies check out the marriage section of my website:
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Standard Evidence Thread: http://talkaboutmarriage.com/coping-...ence-post.html
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post #14 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-04-2017, 03:14 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Dead end cul-de-sac

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One thing to consider, you're going to get crucified in the divorce. Go to a lawyer and look at some actual numbers but you can expect to only get 30% of everything. If you want to live off of that go for it. I'm in a similar situation but can't get divorced because I wouldn't be able to live on my share of the settlement.
30% sounds like a pretty low figure. My state is 50/50, AFAIK.
I'm a self made man. Been through some hard times, financially speaking in the past, but have always been able to rebound, and have been able to provide for my family.
Even if it is 50/50, happiness is more important to me than the money, just so I keep my sanity. Besides, she was there for 28 years too. The last thing I want to do is go through a messy divorce with spending a ton of money in the process.
Why do you expect only 30%?
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post #15 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-04-2017, 03:14 PM
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Re: Dead end cul-de-sac

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@Jessica38, In all fairness, I only mentioned I've been considering the option of divorce over the last year, however our marriage has not been all that great for several years now. As a matter of fact, I came close to divorcing her 7 years ago because of the same issues we are having now, but didn't for the sake of our children. It has been exhausting for me to get her involved with anything, and I have tried. And now too tired to try anymore.

This is because she's not in love with you either.

You said: This is likely because she is not in love with you either. Women who are in love with their husbands WANT to spend time with them, and stay in shape for them, and have sex with them. This can be fixed, but it will require that you put in serious effort.

I agree 100% with the first part of your statement, but not so much your last sentence.
Why is it that you think it is me who needs to "put in the serious effort"? I have made every effort to salvage our marriage, made compromises, suggested counseling(she refused), been the good/faithful husband/father, and in return I get promises that are made on her part, only too soon to be broken, and she goes back to the same routine.

I don't think it's only you who needs to put in serious effort, but I do think that if you want to save your marriage and give it your best shot, you get to go first because you're the one here asking for advice on how to improve your situation. She needs to learn how to meet your needs too- but she will not be motivated to do that when she's not in love with you.
And then there's this comment: I said: There is no one else "waiting in the wings" for me for my relationship to end, but I am not afraid I will find love again.
You said: Are you sure? There is no female friend who's providing a listening ear?

I didn't join this forum to become a target of accusations of members on here. I've never cheated on my wife and wouldn't discuss my personal dirty laundry to anyone I know, female or male. Anyone who does that is a fool. (aka loose lips sink ships). I joined this forum in anonymity to find help with a difficult decision I am facing from others who have experienced similar circumstances, and to gain some knowledge on what to expect.

Not tying to accuse you of having an affair, but many men who are willing to leave their wives are thinking of greener pastures, and many times that includes a "female friend." If your wife came here first asking for help because her husband told her he was thinking of leaving her, many of us would have her investigating a possible affair or private communication with another woman.

I appreciate your comments and the time you took to respond to my post. I'll check out the book you referred to as well for another point of view.
I'm sorry I couldn't be more helpful to you. I still think your marriage has a great chance of getting through this hard time but it will require serious effort on both your parts, and she has to be willing too. You need a plan though, and someone has to lead. Usually when the husband is willing to start his wife is more likely to follow and the marriage improves rather quickly, according to Dr. Harley, licensed clinical psych and author of the book I suggested. I told another poster looking to improve his marriage the same thing- your wife is lucky that you are here trying to figure out how to improve the marriage. It's harder when the wife wants improvement and her husband is not willing to do the work, according to Dr. Harley's experience. A wife cannot carry her husband uphill but men are usually more able to persuade their wives to meet their needs once they start meeting her needs.
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