Is this normal? - Page 5 - Talk About Marriage
Considering Divorce or Separation If you're considering divorce or separation, this is the place to talk.

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post #61 of 86 (permalink) Old 04-12-2017, 04:08 PM
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Re: Is this normal?

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Because she has children and depression is treatable. When we make vows, we promise to love and care for our spouse in sickness and in health. I'm no stranger to PPD and have witnessed how difficult it is on a family. I do not have experience with a depressed husband though and my heart goes out to the OP. His reaction to her ending it is not one of apathy- he does care.
So here is how the vows worked for him:

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Originally Posted by summer41 View Post
I got post natal depression but he didn't understand. That's when things started to crack. He started being uncaring, turning the Other way if I was upset. had no one to help me or show some love and understanding he made me feel like I was mental why couldn't I just crack on...I went to counselling but still struggled with my weight and body image (I had put 6 stone on)
Over the next 4 years I felt low and couldn't fully shake off the sadness but was doing ok at work being promoted. His sex drive dipped and he started to pile on the weight.
I fell pregnant 4 years later with my second child, again bam post natal depression and I developed an eating disorder to lose my weight. My first child went to school and I met some more mums who got me into running to help with my low mood it worked! I felt lighter in my moods, but my husband resented me for it, wouldn't watch me race didn't like me having friends; would put me down in a manipulative way.
Where was HER support when SHE was the one dealing with depression? Instead of being supportive and loving, he insulted her. She could very well turn and deal him the same treatment he gave her, but instead, she has tried to encourage him to get help and participate in life.

summer41, I think your husband may need to be put into a treatment center. His reaction when you told him you were done does not bode well for his mental health. (on top of being completely manipulative) You may want to see about having him committed for a bit.


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post #62 of 86 (permalink) Old 04-12-2017, 04:12 PM
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Re: Is this normal?

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"Mostly" women is when their partners also join for social runs. This club is family orientated - kids too hence why I wanted him to come along to try and make or relationship work as he wasn't and this was the only way i could personally see a way forward he wouldn't go to relate he wouldn't go the doctors so maybe new friends that also involved the children as a FAMILY we could have a social side he could then maybe build friendships with the other men and have his own social side. The running was seen as a FAMILY way forward.

In a healthy marriage, spouses can negotiate activities they do for recreational companionship and family time. I get that yours is unhealthy and he offered no alternatives, other than to tell you he didn't like your running. I wanted to ask though because in a healthy marriage, doing it anyway without figuring out what his issues are, and continuing after he said it bothered him, is independent behavior (according to licensed Psych Dr. Harley and author of His Needs, Her Needs). Thanks for clarifying what was going on and that you are training with women, not men.

When I took my vows I was totally besotted with this man and I would love and care for him until the end but would you say that to a physically abused wife? I wouldn't and even though this is EMOTIONAL abuse that I have tried to cope with for years, the nasty comments - the nasty actions over the years I have brushed them aside thinking it was me or it's ok it's his illness; but no I am sorry we have to look for self preservation at a point. I still wobble between staying and going down to the family / marriage ethics but I am broken emotionally. Date nights I always had to arrange them to try and save our marriage he never did.

Would I say that an abused wife with children should separate from her husband until he gets treatment and proves that he can be a fit father and husband? Absolutely, and I've given you the same advice (again, based on what I've learned from Dr. Harley). I listen to his radio show while folding laundry and driving and he has cases like this a lot, so I'm sharing what I've learned in hopes that it will help you.

Not once has he said he is upset about losing me, he is upset about family man outsider view. He is worried financially as also sometimes a depressed person just spends money like water.

I got from your first post that you are trying to figure out what to do, and that leaving him is an option you're considering. It sounds like you're still vacillating between leaving him and staying. I suggested (and still do) that you put a plan in place and separate from him, but give him the conditions he will need to meet in order to reconcile. And give him 6-12 months to meet those VERY SPECIFIC conditions. I say this only because you have children. Otherwise, I'd tell you to file tomorrow.
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post #63 of 86 (permalink) Old 04-12-2017, 04:16 PM
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Re: Is this normal?

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The OP says that she runs for about 20 minutes early in the morning BY HERSELF. Her husband objects to her doing this as well. That's not reasonable. She benefits in important ways from the exercise. He's unreasonable to expect her to give up something that works for her.
Agreed, but my question was about the group she runs with that she also mentioned. I wanted to make sure she wasn't running with the OS, meaning he had a legitimate reason to be bothered by it.
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post #64 of 86 (permalink) Old 04-12-2017, 04:17 PM
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Re: Is this normal?

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Originally Posted by Jessica38 View Post
Because she has children and depression is treatable. When we make vows, we promise to love and care for our spouse in sickness and in health. I'm no stranger to PPD and have witnessed how difficult it is on a family. I do not have experience with a depressed husband though and my heart goes out to the OP. His reaction to her ending it is not one of apathy- he does care.
Yes depression is treatable. But a lot of people who have clinical depressions refuse to get the help that they need. At some point it because basically a choice on his part to abandon the relationship. Just because he is physically in the home does not mean that he is in the relationship.

There are more ways to carry out abandon a marriage than to walk out the door. Sitting there for years, angry, depressed, verbally attacking one's spouse is another form of abandoning the relationship.


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I agree with separating until he demonstrates that he is getting treatment and that he can engage in the marriage and family. But I don't agree with throwing away the marriage entirely until he is given a chance to prove himself. A separation may be the wake-up call he needs to get help.
The OP said that he has

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And I do know that running clubs/training have hurt marriages when the opposite sex is involved. I have no idea if that is what is going on here, but the OP said that she trains *mostly* with women. When your marriage is struggling, training with the OS where support and endorphins are involved can lead to bonding.
You do not know if the opposite sex folks in her running group are hurting her marriage. Does this mean that if a woman works with men, that she has to quit her job because there are men at her job? Are we now following Islamic rules that state that non-family member men and women must be separated?

I belong to a master gardener group that has both men and women. Does that mean that I need to quit the organization because there are men in it? Get real. Almost every one would have to quit because almost everyone is married... men and woman.

I also have a walking group and another special interest group that have both men and women. Do I need to quit those too?

Get real.

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In short, I understand that this situation is extremely difficult on the OP and anyone else who has gone through it. I do think she needs to do something here, as she can't live like this either. But I don't agree that she should give up on the marriage without giving it one last shot at shaking him up enough to get treatment and prove he can be there for her and the family.
She already gave him a last shot and he did not take it. How many last shots does she need to give him? How many years does she have to live in a situation that is not mentally healthy for her and for her children?
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post #65 of 86 (permalink) Old 04-12-2017, 04:19 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Is this normal?

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@summer41



I have some questions about the group you run with.



How many people are there in your running group?



How many of those people are men?


I run with usually 5/6 women weekly. once a month a social run meaning that some not all of the husbands would Come but only if their wives / partners where there


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post #66 of 86 (permalink) Old 04-12-2017, 04:21 PM
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Re: Is this normal?

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OP, I thought this was why you came here too, to get advice about your marriage? It seems to me you already decided to end it.
Did you notice the forum in which she posted? It's about divorce, not fixing her marriage. so yea, she's made up her mind to leave. She is not looking for input to fix a marriage that she is done with.
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post #67 of 86 (permalink) Old 04-12-2017, 04:22 PM
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Re: Is this normal?

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I run with usually 5/6 women weekly. once a month a social run meaning that some not all of the husbands would Come but only if their wives / partners where there
Thanks for clarifying that the assumptions being made by some are way out of line.
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post #68 of 86 (permalink) Old 04-12-2017, 04:27 PM
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Re: Is this normal?

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Yes depression is treatable. But a lot of people who have clinical depressions refuse to get the help that they need. At some point it because basically a choice on his part to abandon the relationship. Just because he is physically in the home does not mean that he is in the relationship.

There are more ways to carry out abandon a marriage than to walk out the door. Sitting there for years, angry, depressed, verbally attacking one's spouse is another form of abandoning the relationship.

Agreed.

The OP said that he has



You do not know if the opposite sex folks in her running group are hurting her marriage. Does this mean that if a woman works with men, that she has to quit her job because there are men at her job? Are we now following Islamic rules that state that non-family member men and women must be separated?

I belong to a master gardener group that has both men and women. Does that mean that I need to quit the organization because there are men in it? Get real. Almost every one would have to quit because almost everyone is married... men and woman.

I also have a walking group and another special interest group that have both men and women. Do I need to quit those too?

Get real.

Many spouses have issues with their partner recreating with the opposite sex. Dr. Harley, author of His Needs Her Needs, has helped marriages in situations like hers- and he's got a no opposite-sex policy like many here on TAM. Knowing that most affairs start with opposite-sex friendships, I'm being very realistic. How many friendships have you read about here on TAM that have resulted in EAs or PAs? I asked the question and now you're telling me to Get Real? What, is this oppressed speech day, where we attack posters who ask questions based on a licensed clinical psychologist's recommendation who has helped marriages in similar situations? In no way do I state that women can't associate with men, but becoming recreational companions if your spouse tells you it bothers them? If her husband were posting, telling us that his wife is part of a running group that included men and he asked her to stop and she didn't, wouldn't we be asking questions and giving him advice? And wouldn't many here on TAM be telling him why opposite-sex recreational companions is a slippery slope? Especially if there are issues in the marriage?



She already gave him a last shot and he did not take it. How many last shots does she need to give him? How many years does she have to live in a situation that is not mentally healthy for her and for her children?

This is the first time that she has told him he either gets help or she is done. When you're ready to set a firm boundary and separate until your spouse seeks treatment, it can be a huge wake-up call to the spouse to actually get the treatment he needs and be proactive in doing what he needs to do for the sake of his family.
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post #69 of 86 (permalink) Old 04-12-2017, 04:32 PM
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Re: Is this normal?

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Did you notice the forum in which she posted? It's about divorce, not fixing her marriage. so yea, she's made up her mind to leave. She is not looking for input to fix a marriage that she is done with.
I did not see that, I thought she was looking for help in deciding what to do.

And she did say in a previous post that she goes back and forth.
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post #70 of 86 (permalink) Old 04-12-2017, 04:35 PM
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Re: Is this normal?

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Thanks for clarifying that the assumptions being made by some are way out of line.
Asking questions is now making assumptions? Where were assumptions made?

Many women will finally leave a spouse after years of unhappiness once they have a new point of comparison. In no way did I assume she was spending time with other men as recreational companions. I asked the question because she said her husband had an issue with it. It was a red flag to me so I asked. I make no apologies for that- it was meant to help.

And OP, since you've posted in the divorcing forum, I see that you've likely made up your mind. Sorry for the misunderstanding. I wish you and your children the best.

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post #71 of 86 (permalink) Old 04-12-2017, 04:36 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Is this normal?



Three years ago i said the same thing but it fell on deaf ears and he didn't change but I was too weak and worried about the kids to follow it through.

Thank you for your advice


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post #72 of 86 (permalink) Old 04-12-2017, 04:50 PM
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Re: Is this normal?

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Three years ago i said the same thing but it fell on deaf ears and he didn't change but I was too weak and worried about the kids to follow it through.

Thank you for your advice


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No one could blame you for that. I'm sorry you're going through this, my heart goes out to you and your family. I do think you're right in separating. I see no other choice. I agree with the previous poster who said he might need to enter a treatment center. It's up to you at that point if you'd be willing to reconcile if he can demonstrate that he will continue treatment and become a fit father/husband.
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post #73 of 86 (permalink) Old 04-12-2017, 05:32 PM
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Re: Is this normal?

Summer, do you ever take your children to the running group on family days?
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post #74 of 86 (permalink) Old 04-12-2017, 05:44 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Is this normal?

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Summer, do you ever take your children to the running group on family days?


I do when I can by this I mean that my 8 year old son if he is asked by me does he want to come to the running day with me ?? If his dad is at home playing on the PS4 then he wants to do that instead. I get no encouragement off H to change his mind. Even though it would be beneficial for him. When he comes he has a good time: my daughter is 12 and is at that age where she used to come but it's not cool. So it's very hit and miss. To counteract this I have tried when the weather allows to get the kids walking with me in the countryside which they enjoy if it isn't too hard. I want my children to grow up in an active healthy lifestyle. It's ok to chill out and have a PJ day but not in and out of everyday. If the weather is nice kids should be outside playing in the fresh air not stuck inside playing video games or on their phones.


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post #75 of 86 (permalink) Old 04-14-2017, 02:15 AM
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Re: Is this normal?

Summer,

Hope you had a better day today. How's it going?
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