Email from Wife: I Should Consider Separating - Page 2 - Talk About Marriage
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post #16 of 73 (permalink) Old 04-18-2017, 03:30 PM
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Re: Email from Wife: I Should Consider Separating

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Originally Posted by Mangoseed View Post
Thanks for responding.

In her email, she said that we use this time to address our individual "traumas".

For her, I mentioned in my original post that she's been nose-diving. Downward spiral in terms of losing people who she considered her friends and losing her favourite past time. That's a long story that I want to share when I have more time.

For me, I told her that her constant berating is my trauma. Her constant need to be angry and to hold on to anger. I feel no confidence in her presence.

We've tried counselling in the past. Considering we're where we are now, it's hard to say whether or not it worked. Maybe we just didn't follow-through on the things that we were counselled to do. I'd be willing to try again.

She's been binge-reading self-help books. I haven't been keeping up with all of them, but we don't talk about them either. I just see them laying around. The current one seems to be instructing her to write a daily journal.

I don't think that she'll suggest me (or her) moving out. Probably just avoiding each other, except where it has to do with the kids, and sleeping separately.

One of her "friends" (more of an acquaintance) recently went through this. I was actually surprised (again, looking at their relationship from the outside). They did an in-house separation. They co-parented, but he slept in another room, so I'm sure she'll want to follow that model. I haven't checked in to see what their status is now, but I'm pretty sure they're divorcing.
Okay, I see. I'm usually one to leap at ''there's another person involved'' but not sure, with the details you're sharing. BUT...I'd take the advice of some others here before making any decisions, I'd check the phone bill and see if there's any numbers that you don't know or recognize that keep coming up, check internet history, etc. It might be an emotional affair, it doesn't have to be physical, and she could be caught up in the drama of it all, thus her crying and constant frustration with you. I wouldn't tell her that you suspect anything, just do that on your own, because how many people really would admit to having an affair when asked. We don't want to think the worst for you and scare you, but before making any major decisions, do some investigating to see if there *could be* someone else.


''Sometimes, you fall in love with the most unexpected person, at the most unexpected time.'' - Unknown
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post #17 of 73 (permalink) Old 04-18-2017, 03:36 PM
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Re: Email from Wife: I Should Consider Separating

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Originally Posted by Mangoseed View Post
We had an argument this past Friday. It only differed slightly from our usual arguments since this time I decided not to be the doormat that I tend to be with her. In what felt like me being torn down for my character and her making demands for things that she said I needed to do to "change", I responded saying that I know who I am and I know my value and that I'm NOT going to change. She looked stunned (this was much different than my usual apology and "yes dear") and responded with somewhat of a veiled threat. "Oh... you're not going to change? Fine. I'll change. You watch!"
My gut reaction is to up the ante and call her bluff. My response would of been, "Thank god this nightmare is over! I'll start shopping for a divorce lawyer right away, thanks!!! "

The fact that she did this by email leads me to believe she's a coward and she's just trying to intimidate you into returning to your "yes dear" doormat ways. Don't fall for her ruse.

“When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time.” - Maya Angelou
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post #18 of 73 (permalink) Old 04-18-2017, 03:54 PM
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Re: Email from Wife: I Should Consider Separating

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Originally Posted by Mangoseed View Post
Thanks for responding.

In her email, she said that we use this time to address our individual "traumas".

For her, I mentioned in my original post that she's been nose-diving. Downward spiral in terms of losing people who she considered her friends and losing her favourite past time. That's a long story that I want to share when I have more time.

For me, I told her that her constant berating is my trauma. Her constant need to be angry and to hold on to anger. I feel no confidence in her presence.

We've tried counselling in the past. Considering we're where we are now, it's hard to say whether or not it worked. Maybe we just didn't follow-through on the things that we were counselled to do. I'd be willing to try again.

She's been binge-reading self-help books. I haven't been keeping up with all of them, but we don't talk about them either. I just see them laying around. The current one seems to be instructing her to write a daily journal.

I don't think that she'll suggest me (or her) moving out. Probably just avoiding each other, except where it has to do with the kids, and sleeping separately.

One of her "friends" (more of an acquaintance) recently went through this. I was actually surprised (again, looking at their relationship from the outside). They did an in-house separation. They co-parented, but he slept in another room, so I'm sure she'll want to follow that model. I haven't checked in to see what their status is now, but I'm pretty sure they're divorcing.
I think she should really be mindful that what she's doing is being watch closely by her daughters. They are going to model the way they act by watching her and right now they are seeing this downward spiral. If for any other reason, she should cut the crap for their sakes. I've read article after article about teen and pre-teen girls acting out sexually and with drugs and alcohol when they see their mother's do this. I'm not sure how you say this as a husband, it might be better coming from a marriage counselor. She a role model whether she likes it or not.

"I've paid double for every transgression I've ever made and that motel and that boat are little to ask for"
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post #19 of 73 (permalink) Old 04-18-2017, 04:13 PM
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Re: Email from Wife: I Should Consider Separating

Email is typically the recommended way if there's a chance things might get too heated and emotional.

Has she given you an indication prior to this email that she has been unhappy in the marriage?

I know that in Marriage Builders, Dr. Harley does recommend that women separate from husbands who are unwilling to meet their needs/address their complaints in the marriage. His advice is to let the husband know via a letter, as this often wakes up the husband to finally either 1. Work with them to improve the marriage, or 2. End the marriage because he's unwilling to work on it.

Is it possible that this is what's going on? Either way, Dr. Harley does recommend that spouses who are hit with a desire to separate without warning to investigate a possible PA/EA, as another man or woman can often be a new point of comparison to the spouse of what is missing in their own marriage.

I'm sorry you're going through this, but since you two do have issues in the marriage, it could be a good opportunity to get serious and work on it together from this point on. If there is another man though, that's not going to work, so you do have to investigate.

Do you have access to her texts/apps/devices?


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post #20 of 73 (permalink) Old 04-18-2017, 04:34 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Email from Wife: I Should Consider Separating

I want to address all of your posts, but before I do that I want to tackle the multiple inquiries of possible infidelity.

99% unlikely.

I know this because I got into a routine of keeping a very close on on her and her activities a couple of years ago when I WAS suspecting her of an affair.

The Story:
- She made friends with a co-worker (Call him Ted)
- He owned an MMA gym as an after-work venture
- She was desperate to lose weight (she was >200lbs at the time) and decided to try it out
- She fell in love with it. Lost ~60lbs. Became a different person
- She communicated with him too regularly. Always giggling and staring at her phone. Tighter clothing, suddenly wearing leggings and tank-tops all the time
- Got Instagram - body selfies all the time
- Got angry at anyone who tried to pull her aside and question her "change"
- I became suspicious, questioned her on an affair with Ted, she called me insecure
- I did become insecure and started checking her emails and text messages regularly.

Long story short, at MOST, there may have been a one-sided emotional affair from her to him. There were no emotional exchanges of feelings. Just a Platonic friendship with a slight touch of obsession on her part.

Wife stepped in from work as I'm typing this. We didn't say anything to each other and she's gone up to the bedroom.

I'll use this time now to discuss the downward spiral that I mentioned she's going through. It has to do with the above story.

My wife and Ted are no longer friends.

About 3 years ago, my wife took the leap towards becoming an amateur fighter. I hated the idea at the time (few men want to see their wife get punched and kicked) but eventually grew to accept it. Ted was her coach and she became really good at fighting.

I mistook her obsession with the sport to be an obsession with HIM. What's worse is that she started treating me and the kids like an after thought while she was immersed in this world. She had a sexy new body, gained the respect of women (online and in real life) who could never imagine doing such a tough sport. Her online before/after photos were always an inspiration to other women looking to lose weight. And with Ted's popularity in this amateur sport community, she was benefiting from similar attention and gaining a lot of new friends who also did the sport.

She started developing expectations of Ted... that he'd promote her rank at the gym, work harder at finding her more fights. When he failed to meet her expectations, she threatened to switch gyms and he's apologize and ask her not to do it. I make mention of this because I parallel it to the way she treats her relationship with me and others who earn the status of "close friend".

Last year, she sustained a knee injury during a fight that required surgery. Things haven't been the same since.

She was someone who spent 5-6 days a week, 4 hours at a time in the gym. With this injury (she was unable to walk), all she could do was sit on a couch. She drinks a bottle of wine every night. She's regained all of the weight.

She felt that Ted didn't do enough to check in on her and see how his "star fighter" was recovering. So she called him one day and angrily told him that "when she gets better", she's no longer going to fight for his gym. Basically breaking up with him, lol.

For some reason, she thought that this was going to be an amicable split (just business) and that they could continue to be friends. Ted was hurt (by this point, I had grown to like him as a friend once I got over my suspicions) and just decided to walk away without any argument.

What my wife soon found that all of the people in the fighting community, who she thought were her friends, suddenly stopped talking to her.

So, now we have:
1. An inability to do her favourite hobby (she still struggles to walk and now has other body pains as a result of imbalance in the body)
2. Poor body image as a result of weight gain
3. Feeling the sting of people dropping her once they've learned of the split between her and Ted

So she's angry. Angry all the time... and she thinks I'm her punching bag whenever PMS (or PMDD to be more specific) hits. And I'm not meaning to be rude when I mention that... I'm being very real here. She gives in wholly to the emotions that hit her and becomes completely unfiltered.

I've seen her internet search history... looking up terms like "depression". I personally don't think she's depressed. I think it's an overused label that people try to apply when they're just disappointed with the cards they've been dealt. A year ago, she was on top of the world and now it's all gone.

Going back to the infidelity inquiry, I still check her phone/email/text activity on occasion. I don't think there's anyone else. Mostly, I just look at it to try to see where her head is at.

Long-winded post, but hopefully this provides more context.
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post #21 of 73 (permalink) Old 04-18-2017, 04:41 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Email from Wife: I Should Consider Separating

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Originally Posted by Yeswecan View Post
Whatever the case, I suggest you meet your W as requested, sit and just listen. No retorts. No interrupting. Keep eye contact. Let your W get it out on the table. That is your first best start at this juncture. Do not take a defensive posture or respond in a defensive way. Do not point blame. Express your desires in the continuing of the marriage.
Thanks. I think I'll give this a try
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post #22 of 73 (permalink) Old 04-18-2017, 04:46 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Email from Wife: I Should Consider Separating

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Originally Posted by Evinrude58 View Post
What you're experiencing, I believe to be the symptom of a person that is all about themselves, lacks respect for you, and does NOT consider your feelings. It's all about her. I don't know if that can be "fixed". Likely she is incapable of saying she is sorry, correct? And, if you do point out an obvious wrong she has committed, rather than say she is sorry, she deflects blame on past wrongs which you supposedly did that she considers "similar" to what she did that was obviously wrong.
You've hit the nail on the head. Described her to a "T".

Maybe you're the boyfriend that everyone is asking me about, lol.
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post #23 of 73 (permalink) Old 04-18-2017, 05:00 PM
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Re: Email from Wife: I Should Consider Separating

Mangoseed, the 4 hours in the gym and intense focus on her sport to the exclusion of the family sound to me like independent behavior, in which your wife does things without first considering how you feel (case in point: either get on board with the fighting or suffer in silence). This is a HUGE lovebuster in marriage (not the physical activity part, the doing what she wants regardless of how you feel about it part).

Bottom line: Your wife needs to learn how to be a wife, and that means taking her husband's feelings into account and making decisions you both agree on. Her drinking also sounds like independent behavior in marriage (unless you agree to her drinking a bottle a night, but it sounds like you don't?).

I'd sit down with her and tell her that you agree- the marriage as it is will not work for you either. She can either 1. Start a marriage program with you, or 2. Move forward with the separation, but she will need to find a place to live.

And I'd get started on His Needs, Her Needs, and Lovebusters and work through them with a Marriage Builders coach. Sometimes the books alone are enough, but in your case, your wife will need to hear from a 3rd party how her independent behavior is unacceptable in marriage.


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post #24 of 73 (permalink) Old 04-18-2017, 05:31 PM
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Re: Email from Wife: I Should Consider Separating

Answer to her next rant:

"I agree that things aren't working. I'm not your whipping boy and I'm tired of it ... So, when are you leaving?"

But seriously, she is used to steamrolling you and you laying down and taking it. I agree with the poster that said your concerns and your feelings don't matter to her. It is all about her, all the time.
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post #25 of 73 (permalink) Old 04-18-2017, 05:47 PM
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Re: Email from Wife: I Should Consider Separating

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mangoseed View Post
....In her email, she said that we use this time to address our individual "traumas".

....losing people who she considered her friends and losing her favourite past time.

For me, I told her that her constant berating is my trauma. Her constant need to be angry and to hold on to anger. I feel no confidence in her presence.

We've tried counselling in the past.

.....She's been binge-reading self-help books. I haven't been keeping up with all of them, but we don't talk about them either. I just see them laying around.

....One of her "friends" (more of an acquaintance) recently went through this. I
A few thoughts. Please read the following and think about whether you have been present for your wife or not. Why Women Leave Men They Love: What Every Man Needs to Know | The Huffington Post

Next, she is loosing friend and that is one of her traumas and this friend is going through separation divorce/ Does that sound like as much of a red flag to you as it does to me?

She has been binge-reading self-help books! Another red flag, but one with hope. She wants to change her life for the better. Unfortunately she that that life with you is not part of a better life for her. Maybe you need to help her figure out ho a changed you and a changed her can have a much better life togher.

Make sure that you focus on your two children. No matter what happens they are going to need to feel that you love them and will always love them.


Good luck

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post #26 of 73 (permalink) Old 04-18-2017, 05:57 PM
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Re: Email from Wife: I Should Consider Separating

Personally I would say if we are going to separate we might as well get a divorce. In my experience separating is an easier way to divorce. Tell her you are willing to work on the marriage but under the same roof.
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post #27 of 73 (permalink) Old 04-18-2017, 06:04 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Email from Wife: I Should Consider Separating

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jessica38 View Post
Email is typically the recommended way if there's a chance things might get too heated and emotional.

Has she given you an indication prior to this email that she has been unhappy in the marriage?

I know that in Marriage Builders, Dr. Harley does recommend that women separate from husbands who are unwilling to meet their needs/address their complaints in the marriage. His advice is to let the husband know via a letter, as this often wakes up the husband to finally either 1. Work with them to improve the marriage, or 2. End the marriage because he's unwilling to work on it.

Is it possible that this is what's going on? Either way, Dr. Harley does recommend that spouses who are hit with a desire to separate without warning to investigate a possible PA/EA, as another man or woman can often be a new point of comparison to the spouse of what is missing in their own marriage.

I'm sorry you're going through this, but since you two do have issues in the marriage, it could be a good opportunity to get serious and work on it together from this point on. If there is another man though, that's not going to work, so you do have to investigate.

Do you have access to her texts/apps/devices?


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Interestingly, our church offered a marriage building course that we attended and it was based off of the writings and teachings of Dr. Harley. So we talked all about Love Banks and our Love Languages.

She's never outright expressed a desire to leave the marriage, but with her being as unfiltered as she is, it's come out as a threat often.

"I'LL JUST TAKE THE KIDS AND LEAVE!"
"LOTS OF PEOPLE ARE MANAGING ON THEIR OWN, I CAN DO JUST FINE WITHOUT YOU!"

I don't take these seriously since so much of what she says seems to be done in a state of anger.

I don't know if my decision to finally push back was her interpretation of me being unwilling to work on things. I'm always willing and always have been willing. I don't want a broken home and I hate the conflict that we're in.

It's just difficult. And it's a cycle. We fight, I apologize and promise change, we're good for a while, and then it happens again.

What I'm tired of is the need for change always falling on my shoulders as if I'm the faulty one in the relationship.

I've sat back and quietly watched dozens of her friendships fall apart because people just choose to up and walk away from her irrational anger and outbursts.
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post #28 of 73 (permalink) Old 04-18-2017, 06:08 PM
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Re: Email from Wife: I Should Consider Separating

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mangoseed View Post
I want to address all of your posts, but before I do that I want to tackle the multiple inquiries of possible infidelity.

99% unlikely.

I know this because I got into a routine of keeping a very close on on her and her activities a couple of years ago when I WAS suspecting her of an affair.

The Story:
- She made friends with a co-worker (Call him Ted)
- He owned an MMA gym as an after-work venture
- She was desperate to lose weight (she was >200lbs at the time) and decided to try it out
- She fell in love with it. Lost ~60lbs. Became a different person
- She communicated with him too regularly. Always giggling and staring at her phone. Tighter clothing, suddenly wearing leggings and tank-tops all the time
- Got Instagram - body selfies all the time
- Got angry at anyone who tried to pull her aside and question her "change"
- I became suspicious, questioned her on an affair with Ted, she called me insecure
- I did become insecure and started checking her emails and text messages regularly.

Long story short, at MOST, there may have been a one-sided emotional affair from her to him. There were no emotional exchanges of feelings. Just a Platonic friendship with a slight touch of obsession on her part.

Wife stepped in from work as I'm typing this. We didn't say anything to each other and she's gone up to the bedroom.

I'll use this time now to discuss the downward spiral that I mentioned she's going through. It has to do with the above story.

My wife and Ted are no longer friends.

About 3 years ago, my wife took the leap towards becoming an amateur fighter. I hated the idea at the time (few men want to see their wife get punched and kicked) but eventually grew to accept it. Ted was her coach and she became really good at fighting.

I mistook her obsession with the sport to be an obsession with HIM. What's worse is that she started treating me and the kids like an after thought while she was immersed in this world. She had a sexy new body, gained the respect of women (online and in real life) who could never imagine doing such a tough sport. Her online before/after photos were always an inspiration to other women looking to lose weight. And with Ted's popularity in this amateur sport community, she was benefiting from similar attention and gaining a lot of new friends who also did the sport.

She started developing expectations of Ted... that he'd promote her rank at the gym, work harder at finding her more fights. When he failed to meet her expectations, she threatened to switch gyms and he's apologize and ask her not to do it. I make mention of this because I parallel it to the way she treats her relationship with me and others who earn the status of "close friend".

Last year, she sustained a knee injury during a fight that required surgery. Things haven't been the same since.

She was someone who spent 5-6 days a week, 4 hours at a time in the gym. With this injury (she was unable to walk), all she could do was sit on a couch. She drinks a bottle of wine every night. She's regained all of the weight.

She felt that Ted didn't do enough to check in on her and see how his "star fighter" was recovering. So she called him one day and angrily told him that "when she gets better", she's no longer going to fight for his gym. Basically breaking up with him, lol.

For some reason, she thought that this was going to be an amicable split (just business) and that they could continue to be friends. Ted was hurt (by this point, I had grown to like him as a friend once I got over my suspicions) and just decided to walk away without any argument.

What my wife soon found that all of the people in the fighting community, who she thought were her friends, suddenly stopped talking to her.

So, now we have:
1. An inability to do her favourite hobby (she still struggles to walk and now has other body pains as a result of imbalance in the body)
2. Poor body image as a result of weight gain
3. Feeling the sting of people dropping her once they've learned of the split between her and Ted

So she's angry. Angry all the time... and she thinks I'm her punching bag whenever PMS (or PMDD to be more specific) hits. And I'm not meaning to be rude when I mention that... I'm being very real here. She gives in wholly to the emotions that hit her and becomes completely unfiltered.

I've seen her internet search history... looking up terms like "depression". I personally don't think she's depressed. I think it's an overused label that people try to apply when they're just disappointed with the cards they've been dealt. A year ago, she was on top of the world and now it's all gone.

Going back to the infidelity inquiry, I still check her phone/email/text activity on occasion. I don't think there's anyone else. Mostly, I just look at it to try to see where her head is at.

Long-winded post, but hopefully this provides more context.
Personally this makes it seem much more likely in my opinion. She already showed she has poor boundaries. Let your wife text and hang out with a cage fighting personal trainer at your own risk. Sounds like she had and emotional affair with this guy and broke up, you are just babysitting her kids. Seriously dude, maybe you should be happy, she sounds awful.

Pro-tip to all married people, if you are not the primary relationship of the opposite sex in your spouses life, the marriage is basically over.

Last edited by sokillme; 04-18-2017 at 06:13 PM.
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post #29 of 73 (permalink) Old 04-18-2017, 06:16 PM
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Re: Email from Wife: I Should Consider Separating

Drinking a bottle of wine every night is definitely contributing to your issue. That's totally problem drinking. Plus, she has lost the hobby that she was defining herself by...I would call her depressed. Depressed and alcoholic. And trust me, a bottle of wine (or more, you may not know the whole amount she is imbibing) is definitely going to remove any "filters" she would normally have. I come from an alcoholic family, and I know how alcohol affects one's social skills, or lack thereof.

Marriage counseling, definitely...and probably an alcohol assessment for her.

Please consider both of the above, and I honestly hope that things work out for your family. <3
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post #30 of 73 (permalink) Old 04-18-2017, 06:20 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Email from Wife: I Should Consider Separating

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Mangoseed, the 4 hours in the gym and intense focus on her sport to the exclusion of the family sound to me like independent behavior, in which your wife does things without first considering how you feel (case in point: either get on board with the fighting or suffer in silence). This is a HUGE lovebuster in marriage (not the physical activity part, the doing what she wants regardless of how you feel about it part).

Bottom line: Your wife needs to learn how to be a wife, and that means taking her husband's feelings into account and making decisions you both agree on. Her drinking also sounds like independent behavior in marriage (unless you agree to her drinking a bottle a night, but it sounds like you don't?).

I'd sit down with her and tell her that you agree- the marriage as it is will not work for you either. She can either 1. Start a marriage program with you, or 2. Move forward with the separation, but she will need to find a place to live.

And I'd get started on His Needs, Her Needs, and Lovebusters and work through them with a Marriage Builders coach. Sometimes the books alone are enough, but in your case, your wife will need to hear from a 3rd party how her independent behavior is unacceptable in marriage.


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One of the common themes that I found... either in the books that she read, or the stuff that she'd Like/Share on Facebook and Instagram... was a very self-centred "It's all about me" philosophy. I could never buy into it, but it seems to be spreading like wildfire in terms of it being popular belief.

When I complained about her disappearance from our home and family life while she was pursuing herself at the gym, she said I was just trying to get in her way. So I stepped back and let go... and in doing so, I found myself feeling detached and no longer caring. I felt like it was the only way to get off the emotional roller coaster. I just had to let go and stop caring.

Once in a while, there would be a Facebook post praising me for "holding down the fort" at home so that she could pursue her dreams. I often rolled my eyes when I saw posts like these. It always felt like she would make these more for "likes" rather than feeding me "Words of Affirmation", which is my primary Love Language.

When it comes to the gym, we met half-way. I started attending the same gym and working out. Not fighting, but just general fitness. She appreciated that.

I don't like her drinking. I've never said it. I don't know how to let it come out without it sounding like judgement. I grew up in an alcohol free home. She grew up in a home where people treat alcohol like water.
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