Email from Wife: I Should Consider Separating - Page 3 - Talk About Marriage
Considering Divorce or Separation If you're considering divorce or separation, this is the place to talk.

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post #31 of 73 (permalink) Old 04-18-2017, 06:29 PM
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Re: Email from Wife: I Should Consider Separating

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To say that I'm in a state of shock right now would be an understatement. I'm at work right now with a long list of items that I have to complete for a huge project and I can't even think straight. I know I won't be able to deliver now.

.[/I]
But yet find time to compose a very long post..a very long post.

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post #32 of 73 (permalink) Old 04-18-2017, 06:47 PM
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Re: Email from Wife: I Should Consider Separating

Mr Nice Guys get walked on. This maybe why you are where you are. Why don't you try a different tactic. The one you're doing will just keep you in misery.

Read up
https://7chan.org/lit/src/Robert_Glo...r_Nice_Guy.pdf
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post #33 of 73 (permalink) Old 04-18-2017, 06:50 PM
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Re: Email from Wife: I Should Consider Separating

Your wife is cheating. Only question is with whom.
Do not move out of the family home. Period. Full stop. Once dad moves out he loses custody of his kids and ability to move back.
Get a lawyer. You need to know the rules in your state. Can you use VAR without her knowledge? Can you use recording as evidence? You may still want to use them but good if you realize what you can and cannot do with them.
If you have access to her computer, put a keylogger on it.
You got great advice about listening to her and gathering information about things you do (and don't do) that bother her. Soak that up. Thank her for sharing. Apologize for not already knowing. May or may not help your current marriage. But is priceless exercise that will help you in your next one.

When you can see it coming, duck!
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post #34 of 73 (permalink) Old 04-18-2017, 06:54 PM
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Re: Email from Wife: I Should Consider Separating

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Originally Posted by Marc878 View Post
Mr Nice Guys get walked on. This maybe why you are where you are. Why don't you try a different tactic. The one you're doing will just keep you in misery.

Read up
https://7chan.org/lit/src/Robert_Glo...r_Nice_Guy.pdf
Guys who consider themselves "Nice guys" seldom are.
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post #35 of 73 (permalink) Old 04-18-2017, 06:55 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Email from Wife: I Should Consider Separating

We still haven't spoken.

She's in the living room watching tv. I'm in the kitchen on the laptop typing this.

Our fight on Friday started with a phone call from her while I was at my dad's house building a shed.

We've been doing a bathroom remodel. It's been 6 weeks and overdue from the original 3 week schedule.

It's supposed to be her dream bathroom. She's been the primary contact for the contractor. I'm indifferent to the aesthetics. I just want it to work.

We ordered a custom mirror and he broke it during delivery, thus pushing out the completion date even further. Last week was the beginning of her pre-monthly cycle. As with every month, I'm usually bracing for some kind of conflict. The timing couldn't have been worse.

She called... said that I haven't been involved enough with communicating urgency to the contractor and she's tired of being the one to do it. I understood and agreed. Offered to take over communications with the contractor.

She continued... now with a raised voice. Saying that she's been working from home to help oversee his work and that she's worried that her boss will get upset. I've been doing the same, but that seems to have gone unnoticed. In fact, while I'm supposed to be working, I'm making trips all across the city to pick up additional tiles, faucets and hardwood.

Our connection was getting bad, but before ending the call, I told her that it didn't make sense for her to be angry at me and that we'd continue talking when I got home.

She was ready to pick up where she left off when I got home. But now, it was no longer about the bathroom reno. It's about me lacking Easter values because I spent Good Friday with the kids and my dad while she was at home sleeping. And it's about me "not caring" about our 14 yr old possibly being gay (based on text messages we found on her phone). And me not "supporting her" and that she doesn't count
- Laundry
- Making the kids breakfast/lunch daily before school
- Dishes
- Garbage Disposal
- Car Maintenance
- Shoveling (Winter) & Mowing (Summer)

... because those are for the house/kids and have nothing to do with her. She doesn't consider this "supporting her"



Maybe she's right. My parents still married, but they're traditional. I do more than my dad did (and still does) mistakenly thinking that these would be appreciated. But I've concluded that she just doesn't appreciate me in that way.

And the support... I think she needs to woman-up (is that a term?). She rejects traditional gender roles... but feels that anything challenging that she undertakes on her own (and doesn't have me there to take it off her hands) is a sign of me abandoning and not supporting her.

And that's when I hit her with the "I know who I am and I know my value" line. Her saying that my contributions mean nothing doesn't make it true.

I was the one that brought our daughter's phone messages to her attention. But I assumed the conversations were with a boy. Prior to noticing the phone messages, we saw that she's been really withdrawn lately, in a way that I suspect is usual for a teenager. There have been instances of her not handing in assignments at school. I've sat and spoken to her. She feels intimidated by her mom's tone when she tries to speak to her. I brought up trying to get a counselor that she can open up to and discuss things with.

When I gave my wife the phone and she read deeper into the messages, she recognized the girl as a classmate and friend of hers.

My response was that we need to be careful with our approach. If this isn't a phase or an experiment, then we don't want her feeling like she can't come to us. But as for my "feelings", I didn't indicate one way or another. Because I honestly don't know. She wants more from me in terms of a response... though she hasn't given me any more than I've given her. But apparently she brought it up to one of her friends (who I believe to be either gay or bisexual) and told her that I had NOTHING to say on the matter.

So that's a summary of what went down on Friday, which is why I'm now being faced with a request to separate.
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post #36 of 73 (permalink) Old 04-18-2017, 06:59 PM
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Re: Email from Wife: I Should Consider Separating

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Originally Posted by Mangoseed View Post
Interestingly, our church offered a marriage building course that we attended and it was based off of the writings and teachings of Dr. Harley. So we talked all about Love Banks and our Love Languages.

She's never outright expressed a desire to leave the marriage, but with her being as unfiltered as she is, it's come out as a threat often.

"I'LL JUST TAKE THE KIDS AND LEAVE!"
"LOTS OF PEOPLE ARE MANAGING ON THEIR OWN, I CAN DO JUST FINE WITHOUT YOU!"

I don't take these seriously since so much of what she says seems to be done in a state of anger.

I don't know if my decision to finally push back was her interpretation of me being unwilling to work on things. I'm always willing and always have been willing. I don't want a broken home and I hate the conflict that we're in.

It's just difficult. And it's a cycle. We fight, I apologize and promise change, we're good for a while, and then it happens again.

What I'm tired of is the need for change always falling on my shoulders as if I'm the faulty one in the relationship.

I've sat back and quietly watched dozens of her friendships fall apart because people just choose to up and walk away from her irrational anger and outbursts.
OP,
First and foremost you are assigning way too much cognizance to your wife, way too much. The bolded above is far beyond her ability to rationalize. If you are to attempt to save this marriage, which is a dubious endeavor, you must learn to deal with her on a level she understands. Threats and intimidation are not the tools of choice when cognizant people argue or debate but it is all she has. Presenting a rational, carefully reasoned point is beyond her ability therefore she uses what she knows and understands. Basically a bully mentality.

You seem to be thoughtful and logical and I can assure you that this approach will not work with her, she is devoid of both. Mentally developed individuals do not sidestep responsibility by shifting blame and responsibility to another, they listen to the facts presented and contemplate their validity, she cannot do this. There is an old adage about fighting fire with fire and if you are to have any success, which I regret to inform you is unlikely, you will need to modify your presentation.

You must stand firm to her insults, threats and attempt at coercion and present as strong and confident. It has been said here that "women find strong men attractive" but the reality is that it actually applies to girls, no matter the age of their body. Women are confident, self assured and have a remarkable depth of understanding regarding their mate, their family and their role as wife and mother, it is actually quite remarkable. Sadly your wife has not reached that level of maturation and it is highly doubtful that she will.

She is easily obsessed, unsure of herself, selfish, constantly needing validation, easily angered and thoughtless. Do you see these attributes as those belonging to an adult woman? What you must decide is do you wish to take on the role of quasi-parent to a third "daughter". If so, then you must understand the mentality with which you are dealing and act and react accordingly, using ration and being reasonable simply will not work with someone that is irrational and unreasonable. You must employ the same tactics that she uses, those which she understands, inasmuch as she can understand.

Until you see, and somewhat understand, the level of intellectual underdevelopment you are dealing with your efforts to "salvage" your marriage will not succeed and, sadly, even if you do adopt a different strategy your efforts may still end in failure since the mind of immature individuals is mostly ruled by chaos. If you do endeavor to save this relationship, I wish you strength, wisdom and good fortune.

Peace and long life
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post #37 of 73 (permalink) Old 04-18-2017, 07:15 PM
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Re: Email from Wife: I Should Consider Separating

Upon reading more of your thread, she sounds like the classic emotional abuser. Nothing you ever do is 'good enough,' everything is your fault, she had an emotional affair, and plays the push/pull game to gain a reaction from you.

Abuse isn't only something that happens to women, it happens to men at high rates, as well. Please stand up for yourself and don't allow your marriage to swallow your dignity and identity. I hope things get better for you.

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post #38 of 73 (permalink) Old 04-18-2017, 07:18 PM
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Re: Email from Wife: I Should Consider Separating

So sorry.
I just want to say, this jumps out at me. Likely you are emotionally detached. She's going through some difficult times.
Support translates to "a friend".
(You can hire someone to do busy house stuff). Only a friend can be a friend.
And it sucks when they turn on you because (maybe) you deserve it.
But a tiny bit of compassion might be possible. And that might open the door.



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post #39 of 73 (permalink) Old 04-18-2017, 07:28 PM
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Re: Email from Wife: I Should Consider Separating

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Upon reading more of your thread, she sounds like the classic emotional abuser. Nothing you ever do is 'good enough,' everything is your fault, she had an emotional affair, and plays the push/pull game to gain a reaction from you.

Abuse isn't only something that happens to women, it happens to men at high rates, as well. Please stand up for yourself and don't allow your marriage to swallow your dignity and identity. I hope things get better for you.


Perhaps she did . Then her world crumbled. Injury. Friends turned on her. He doesn't talk to her. She's reading self help books.
She probably knows how terrible she has been. He's gone. Emotionally.


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post #40 of 73 (permalink) Old 04-18-2017, 07:32 PM
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Re: Email from Wife: I Should Consider Separating

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Perhaps she did . Then her world crumbled. Injury. Friends turned on her. He doesn't talk to her. She's reading self help books.
She probably knows how terrible she has been. He's gone. Emotionally.


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She needs to be remorseful to her husband, that would be the best start to healing the marriage, instead of treating him like a doormat after the EA ended.


Every now and then, you fall in love with the most unexpected person at the most unexpected time. - unknown

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post #41 of 73 (permalink) Old 04-18-2017, 07:36 PM
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Re: Email from Wife: I Should Consider Separating

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She needs to be remorseful to her husband, that would be the best start to healing the marriage, instead of treating him like a doormat after the EA ended.


That's correct. People truly can't do "relationship " stuff when they themselves are suffering. She has a chance now to do that, and in fact she's asking for that time.

He let it go, it has to be addressed. He just might have to wait.



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post #42 of 73 (permalink) Old 04-18-2017, 07:36 PM
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I haven't read too far into the comments so far, but me this strategy of sending you an email in the middle of the workday was meant to put you in panic mode and give her the upper hand. She wants you to feel destroyed so you will beg her not to leave.

Sounds to me like it's time to call her bluff. Let her leave if she feels like that's what she needs. Tell her you understand and you will take time apart to examine your own life goals. It might seriously be the best thing that ever happened to you.

My husband and I went through a separation last year which started as a standoff bc we both wanted the upper hand. I didn't want the separation but accepted it as a personal challenge and exercise in self. After months of counseling we got back together and now have a much more healthy relationship without all the "crying wolf" we did in the past.
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post #43 of 73 (permalink) Old 04-18-2017, 07:52 PM
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Re: Email from Wife: I Should Consider Separating

This has nothing to do with the bathroom or your daughter, they are just examples of her attitude towards you and life in general. "Straw that broke the camel's back" if you will.

Unfortunately it sounds like a case where you can't do right for doing wrong, and it is very much her way or the highway.

If you try to speak to her privately it will only result in another argument where you get lambasted and she refuses to open up about the real issues (which maybe she doesn't even realise are there, like the one-sided relationship with "Ted"), so I'd say that marriage counseling is your only hope.

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post #44 of 73 (permalink) Old 04-18-2017, 07:57 PM
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Email from Wife: I Should Consider Separating

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One of the common themes that I found... either in the books that she read, or the stuff that she'd Like/Share on Facebook and Instagram... was a very self-centred "It's all about me" philosophy. I could never buy into it, but it seems to be spreading like wildfire in terms of it being popular belief.



When I complained about her disappearance from our home and family life while she was pursuing herself at the gym, she said I was just trying to get in her way. So I stepped back and let go... and in doing so, I found myself feeling detached and no longer caring. I felt like it was the only way to get off the emotional roller coaster. I just had to let go and stop caring.



Once in a while, there would be a Facebook post praising me for "holding down the fort" at home so that she could pursue her dreams. I often rolled my eyes when I saw posts like these. It always felt like she would make these more for "likes" rather than feeding me "Words of Affirmation", which is my primary Love Language.



When it comes to the gym, we met half-way. I started attending the same gym and working out. Not fighting, but just general fitness. She appreciated that.



I don't like her drinking. I've never said it. I don't know how to let it come out without it sounding like judgement. I grew up in an alcohol free home. She grew up in a home where people treat alcohol like water.

Sadly, it's something I see among a lot of women I know on FB/Insta too. It's one thing to get in shape and be proud of that; it's another to do so in a way that disregards your commitment to your husband and family.

Honestly, you sound like a great husband. You supported her as much as possible, joined her gym to try to be a part of her world, and you know what books she reads and how she spends her time. I really don't get what her complaints are in the marriage.

The only thing I can see is that she's playing the "you're controlling" card, which really, is laughable considering she was training in her hobby 4 hours a day with whomever she wanted.

I'd say your problem is that your wife shows no signs of stopping her independent behavior, and given her poor boundaries with her coach, could continue to cause issues in your marriage if she doesn't learn how to be interdependent with you.

Since you're already familiar with Dr. Harley, I'd consider calling Marriage Builders to get marital coaching with your wife. If she hears from someone other than her "controlling" husband, she might be willing to consider how her independent behavior is what is causing issues in the marriage.


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post #45 of 73 (permalink) Old 04-18-2017, 08:21 PM
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Re: Email from Wife: I Should Consider Separating

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That's correct. People truly can't do "relationship " stuff when they themselves are suffering. She has a chance now to do that, and in fact she's asking for that time.

He let it go, it has to be addressed. He just might have to wait.



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This. Hurt people hurt people.

OP, there is a saying that a very wise poster, since banned, used to say in situations like this:

Give defiant people what they want. It rarely works out the way they think.

Give your wife all the space she wants. When she talks divorce, calmly tell her that you will be awaiting the papers, and will focus on being fair in the settlement. When she threatens divorce, tell her you will miss her, and you will likely not find someone you love as much as her, but will settle for someone who is less self centered. If she wants to harp on ways she perceives you fall short, simply hold up your hand and say, "Conversations like this are for people who are focusing on reconciliation, not divorce". Then walk away.

Simply put, she wants to go to the brink. I am advocating that rather than trying to convince her to step on the brake, you actually push her foot harder on the gas pedal. That will truly tell you what she thinks. In essence, you will be calling her hand, and you will see if she is holding a pair of 5's or a full house.

But OP, keep this in mind: Never...Ever...Ever play brinkmanship unless you are willing to go over the brink.

Your marriage is unhealthy. If it goes over the brink, you may even be better off. I would not fear divorce if I were you.

"Our ability to feel joy is directly related to how much pain we are willing to feel." - Mavash.

"The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for." - Bob Marley
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