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Getting closer to a decision - and staying strong

24K views 88 replies 26 participants last post by  Struggling4ever 
#1 ·
Well...after 11 long years of triggers and mind movies, my fog has lifted! After spending too many hours reading everyone's stories as well as their responses to mine, my head is clearer than it has been in a long time.

I now realize that my wife's actions were inexcusable in having an ongoing PA with the man who I not only thought was my best friend, but someone who had become a close family friend as well. It was also wrong for me to not be honest with her and tell her about my triggers and bad memories and how this has all affected me and changed who I am.

We got bad advice from a MC who said I needed to take blame, and I know that I also shifted all of the rest of the blame to him for "manipulating her". This was how I survived and moved on. She didn't do this to me, it was him and my actions? I loved her and my family and was willing to do whatever to keep it together and show our friends as well as this OM POS that I won and we would be fine, maybe even better than b4?

I believe the events that transpired during the affair as well as the time leading up to D-day put me into shock and I was never allowed to deal with my anger. I went on a vacation with this X BF POS, I came home and bought her a new ring and apologized for not being more supportive of her, and I basically renewed my vows as I gave her the ring. At this time she could have chose to call it off. Instead she went away with him and 2 of her sisters on a cruise that he paid for, and she accepted more expensive jewelry, and I found out by calling the ship to send her flowers. He flew home from the next port and she called me crying and talked of not being able to face me and she thought about jumping ship. I had to deal with worrying about her, as well as my anger, hurt, shock, etc...for days before seeing her again!

Yes, we had problems in our marriage but she could have chose us....at any time during this horrid affair she could have called it off and chose us, but it only ended because they were caught!

So this is where I am. I have had 11 long years since then with many good times and memories. I'm thankful my kids were able to grow up and stay in our house. I'm thankful my Mom had me as well as my wife there for her until the day she died as my wife was a loving and caring daughter in law to her. But I am ashamed that I was not honest about my feelings and kept them hidden often hurting inside and lashing out in anger at her for what probably seemed like no reason.

We have had ongoing problems in the bedroom because pre D-day it was all about making her feel good and that made me feel good...Post D-day it has been a release and although she enjoys sex, I was just going through the motions trying to get through it and things often didn't work as well causing more triggers and self-esteem issues for me. She has always been good about it and understanding but I could see the disappointment in her eyes.

I am starting my own therapy next week but I really think I will need to move on and I am sad. At some point something died? Sure I've always said I trust her and I really don't believe she's done anything since...but I didn't know or think she would then so??? Since the fog lifted, I have figured out that I was probably in shock, and probably had/have post traumatic stress disorder.

I now realize I have been going through the motions and living life...but not truely happy and alive! Sure I've had some great times, but I have not felt happy for a long time, maybe even since b4 the affair and that probably contributed? It doesn't matter...late mid-life crisis (I'm 52), reality check, facing my own mortality...whatever, I need to be alone for awhile and find my happiness.

I feel bad and guilty but In have done for everyone else my entire life and I need time for me. I am hoping my wife can stay in the house (at least for now) and she says she will wait until I decide because she wants me to be happy but she chooses me. I wish she would have felt that way when the affair started...I owe this to myself! Updates to follow.....:scratchhead:
 
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#4 ·
I think your priority should only be you at this point. She lost the right and privilege of being with you when she cheated, but doubly do when she kept him around and then went on the cruise.

She deserves to be alone for the rest of time and a day.
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#8 ·
Yeah,,,only if I was bitter and vengeful.... but I'm not. I actually feel she deserves to be with someone who worships the ground she walks on...and I believe she learned from her betrayal and it wouldn't happen again..I just can't live with the triggers and memories....she has been very supportive.
 
#6 ·
Our divorce was finalized a year ago. Similarly, after claiming he would never cheat & leave me again, he did with a newer younger version (they are still together 2+ years). The reality that he knowingly chose to put me through such painful betrayal still catches me off guard and I have to admit, makes my heart hurt. I understand some people consistently put their needs first but it's hard to understand how they can do so when they know the anguish & heartache they are causing. I suppose they are just skillful at turning away from it as if it's not there.
 
#9 ·
If you had it to do over again, would you stay those 11 years, or wish you had moved on to this stage 11 years ago?

I ask because I am 9+ months out and recognizing that while I wish for R, Idon't think I have it in me to get past her transgressions - the memories will haunt me forever. I could stay and have a 'decent' life, we can get along just fine, she does not want to split and it would benefit our 7 yr old son for me to stay.

But I am pretty confident that once he is grown and out, I'd arrive at where you are now. Something is missing, it's been removed (complete faith/trust/belief in her & us) and cannot be replaced.

So I wonder which you feel is the right path based on your experience here?
 
#10 ·
I can't tell you what you should do, and I find it hard to answer what I should have done? In my case I still had 2 teenage boys at home, we worked together in a small business, did everything together and I think it would have been too hard at the time. Neither of us could have made it financially alone. She agreed to no contact and therapy, and we somehow moved forward?

Knowing what I know now...I would have found a way to leave if I could have a do over. We still get along great, she's fun, attractive, and I believe faithful. But unfortunately I have never recovered in the bedroom. I honestly trust her sexually but I always doubt her or second guess her on even the smallest things, and I have an inner anger so I sometimes am short or snap at her without good cause. I know the triggers and memories will eventually fade again, but the damage is already done and it can't be changed. No one in a relationship should have to put up with their partner having sex with someone else for any reason. I can understand how EA's can happen, but before it goes physical, you should talk or leave.

About 3 weeks ago, I moved out of the bedroom, we plan on getting finances in order and selling the house, so in time we will at least be seperated. I know I need to dismantle what we had before I can even think about continuing, but it's hard for me to pull the trigger based on what happened so many years ago. It doesn't seem fair to her, but then it wasn't fair to me???
 
#13 · (Edited)
Thank you:)
I truly don't know how I did it, I know why I did it. I always thought we were "soulmates" and my 2 sons were the same age as my younger brothers were when my parents were divorced and it really affected them. I thought I should teach them that you can work through anything. Add that to the fact that the OM was trying to buy his way into my family for quite some time and my pride wouldn't let him win.

I used to be that guy that would hand write a card or try to find the one that expressed where my heart was at. We used to talk about being that old couple on a park bench. That part of me left with the affair. I now have a hard time finding a card cause it can't talk about forever, and I see the old couple on the park bench and I get angry....it's a "trigger". I was recently at a funeral where a young relative died of a drug overdose. His girlfriend who was there with their 6 month old baby had the pastor read a letter she wrote. She said "we talked of growing old together"...I'm sitting in a funeral and I wanted to hit the chair in front of me! I need to let it all go!

I look back now and think about how horrid her affair was and it kills me...As we have talked about it I have broke down as if it happened yesterday and the memories are vivid! I have the guilt of begging her to stay (wow - just typing that line makes me wonder where my head was) and we have had some good memories, but I was never honest. The phrase you have to be honest with yourself opened this up for me... Once I was and my eyes opened up, I was forever changed.

I don't believe I can stay...I can't keep having the triggers and I feel I need a clean slate...and she doesn't know it yet but I believe she deserves better too. Everyone deserves to have someone who loves them, admires them, trust them, and has passion for them. We lost parts of that long ago....:(
Thanks again, but for now, it has to be all about me....
 
#18 ·
A six month vacation from her and marriage could make me want to get a D, or a fresh start depending where my mind and heart is at? But I sense that she is growing bitter again, and she will only hold the blame so long and then her self defense kicks in and it has to be about someone else...I might be wrong but we've been on a few of these "carnival rides" together....Time to leave the circus!
 
#19 ·
Ah I remember you mentioning now about the bad MC experience, maybe in a different thread? So you have a timeline in mind and not totally decided on D or R yet, just leaning toward D?

I am sure her bitterness comes and goes (mine does). H and I have trust issues but he has played on that this time around and really jerked me around, but I am willing to work when/if he is.

From the threads you have written (and I have read some) I do like how you talk about her... you are a true gentleman when you talk about her.

There were a couple of threads that got heated and I had to stop reading... ppl were getting mean/testy (I got enough of that in real life).
 
#20 ·
It,s hard to repair the damage caaused by an affair, not many couples can move forward after such devestation.

Some people really never stop having those crazy triggers and mind movies,everything is as fresh as it happened yesterday.

You may just need some space. To sort out all those emotions that you r going through, i do think aseparation might help figure out if you want to move forward with or without her.

Good luck
 
#23 ·
I think your just in another stage, and things will go smooth soon enough.
I think poeple start to put up a defence when they see a relationship come to an end. Earlier you said she was supportive, but I think the last few weeks have set in and your wife has come to realize the end is near for the marriage.
IMHO you can expect the mixed signals, what the both of you are going through is some mixed up crap. You are moving on with out her, she my understand why, but the fact that you are moving on period is just simply tough.

Breaking up is hard to do!

So, as hard as it is *now* for both of you....it is just a stage and life will go on.

I think the living sitch (seperate rooms) is unhealthy. Your not making a clean break here, but prolonging the missery by staying in the same home. I think you take the big step and move now, it my clean up some of the emotional pain, and give you the *real* space you need.

I understand your deal, I've read your other threads, but you want space, but still stay? It sound like you can have healthy a relationship with her in the future, but you just live to damb close to each other!

Move already!!!!!!
 
#88 ·
I think the living sitch (seperate rooms) is unhealthy. Your not making a clean break here, but prolonging the missery by staying in the same home. I think you take the big step and move now, it my clean up some of the emotional pain, and give you the *real* space you need.

I understand your deal, I've read your other threads, but you want space, but still stay? It sound like you can have healthy a relationship with her in the future, but you just live to damb close to each other!

Move already!!!!!!
I decided to re-read this thread and I did sugarcoat things for sure... Yes, she is a good woman, but when she is angry - look out! She spews some seriously angry stuff. She can only act sweet so long (and she does it well and I believe she's sincere), but after a few drinks if she gets angry..the passive side leaves and the aggressive side can be down right scary. I did 6 months plus of therapy...re-lived it all and it sucked! I had to do it all alone as my wife didn't want to go back to that "dark place". She said she didn't like who she was and didn't want to go back there? Neither did I, but I had to. It was possibly more painful than the original time because I faced what really happened instead of blame shifting and making her a victim.

Even though we have had many great times in the last 12 years and I don't think it would happen again... I just can't look at her the same way anymore. I've lost trust and respect...2 key elements. I seriously wish I could get it back, but it's just not there. When I think about her at times I feel hope and love, but then we spend time together and I feel sad and angry and sometimes even disgust..And she knows this because she says she can feel it. She finally has faced that we are headed for divorce and it kills me to accept it but the option of staying seems worse. After trying to be in the same room again I finally moved into a spare room on March 1, and we haven't had sex since my birthday..in September.. I plan on moving out soon, but we have so much to do on our house. She wants to stay friends and I do too, but it's hard because I know she wants more... a little distance will be good.

I actually have a new woman friend - I stress FRIEND...and seriously nothing more - she was in an abusive marriage for many years (physical and mental), and it took a long time for her to leave and the divorce was long and painful. She's a professional woman who's very petite, attractive, and very athletic.. We have been out together with groups of friends...we have been dancing and motorcycling on a few occasions, and we went bicycling on 1 occasion. She has many other male and female friends that she does things with too. She stresses that she is not interested in a relationship or sex..she just enjoys having friends to have fun with. That's all I need at this point in my life, but it's still been good for me and helped me to realize there can be fun after marriage...:)
 
#24 ·
I think time apart will do them both good. I think they should go a couple of weeks NC, then get together at a neutral location, have dinner, talk, go to a movie. As long as they maintain some sporadic contact they can keep tabs on each other as they go along. They also need to stay celibate. Bringing others into the mess will only confuse the situation.
 
#27 ·
No...I think she is just not sure how to deal with my uncertainty? She knows I am not happy and i want space right now. This is just all so foreign to us as we have always done everything together. She will send me "sweet" text messages and I will respond vague or somewhat cold as I am not sure what I want and I won't lead her on anymore or just tell her what she wants to hear. She knows she did wrong and is sorry but she says "
there is nothing I can do to change it and I have spent the last 11 years trying to prove my love to you, if you can't be with me I need to accept that, you have a right to be happy."

Her text to me the other night said "This is your life, do what you want and don't be influenced by me anymore....just let me go and live. Be you. I love you and I am letting go. Have a good night. :cool:"
 
#30 ·
I think you are doing the best thing for you and your wife. She sounds like she matured and has been a good wife. That is probably why you are hesitant and feel guilty.

What is guilt - a feeling of having failed an obligation. Is that true? No it cannot be. You were a loyal husband from start to end. There are some things that your wife did not do that she should have done. Like come clean about what happened when she knew that you needed to know, getting rid of the detritus from the OM.

She did something that was so massively wrong that even though it is delayed, she suffers the consequences as we all do. She could have helped you deal with these trigger for 11 yrs but she did not. She atoned partially be being a good wife for the period after the affair but it was not enough for you.

I think you will do well. You are a wonderfully committed and loving man. It is time you had someone to match your capacity for love. Just chose carefully and don't become emotionally attached until your have dated at lest 10 women. You have to decide what kind of woman is best for you.
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#31 ·
Well I have not posted for 11 days, time for an update. I finally went in for IC on Tuesday night and it went pretty well. It was supposed to be an initial 50 minute free consultation, but I was her last appointment and I got there at 7:30 pm (it was supposed to be 7 pm , but I got lost as it was out of my area, I made a wrong turn and was 30 minutes late!) I called, she waited for me and we talked until 9:45! I obviously had a lot to let out! I kept saying if you need me to leave it's ok, and she said no it's fine you are my last appointment and you were more than patient waiting to schedule and you drove so far (25-30 minutes)...it's fine. I ended up telling her that although it was a free initial consultation, I wanted to pay for 1 session as I was there so long. She said well thank you, and I said I've been self-employed, all you have to sell is your knowledge and your time so it's ok...so I feel it went well and I go back next Tuesday.

One thing I asked her was why this was so fresh now after all these years? I said on the way driving out I was thinking I wished I had come a while ago when the pain and anger was more fresh. On the way up I seriously felt ok? Well as soon as I started talking about it, my voice trembled, my eyes welled up, and I wasn't ok at all. She said let it out it's been in there a long time! Her answer to my question was that the brain is very complex and it often buries traumatic memories or events sometimes forever, and sometimes just until a time when we are more capable of dealing with things. She said you have probably matured and grown a lot during these years, events happened that led up to all this and now it's finally coming out and that's good. That made perfect sense to me? Kind of like when my daughter was in a bad car accident and remembered before the accident, and the ride to the hospital, but everything during the accident was gone...same with my son who suffered temporary amnesia after a bicycle accident so yes, the brain is a complex thing for sure. Anyway, I got out most of my story as well as how I have been passive-aggressive since being a child and dealing with the affair this time around is the first time I have been assertive and have stood up for myself pretty much ever. I told her of this forum and she was glad to know I was on here and said it is healthy to find I'm not alone...although I am somewhat alone in my extended delayed reaction to finally admitting to how this has affected me and changed who I am!

After the session my wife wanted to know how it went and I was somewhat vague....I have been and I have tried to keep distance without being an ass. The last time we went dancing (basically her line dancing and me having a beer talking with a few people and maybe getting out there for a few), I bought her, myself, and 2 girls (regulars that she dances with) a beer. It started because someone mentioned a Blue Moon with an orange slice, one girl said I don't know if I'd like that, the other said oh they are very good! I said if you want to try it I will buy the first round. I included myself, both girls, and my wife....Although this is somewhat common and friends are always buying a round for others (including us)...because 1 of the girls is somewhat attractive and therefore threatening to my wife...I could tell she was upset. Again, the old me would have said I'm sorry or I won't do it again, or maybe not even do it in the first place? But I knew I was doing nothing wrong so I wasn't gonna let it bother me. She didn't say anything to me, but she wrote her thoughts out on a paper and left it where I would see it talking about how she was not happy about me buying drinks for other girls? Again, we as well as others have bought drinks before, it wasn't that I did it, it was that she felt threatened... I get it, but the rules only changed, not because I did it, but because of who it was. Yet she talks to this girl, hugs her, acts friendly with her and I'm not supposed to say hi? After it came out that she was upset, I finally said I will no longer go there unless you give me a list of who I can talk to and who I can't. I said I have been standing there talking with 1 of your friends before and you walk away to dance or go outside and have come back in and you've gotten mad 2 other times before over 2 other girls (all her friends), but then other times you're fine? I don't get it but it is not fun for me to stand there by myseld drinking a beer watching everyone have fun and actually have people ask me "are you ok?" or "you could at least smile", so I will stay home as I know that is your fun and I don't want to ruin it. She says no that's not what I want and I need to learn from my insecurities. I tell her I am still tired of not being trusted after giving her trust....I have a pretty good track record! She is on her way home to talk but I will continue this later...and trust me...the insanity continues, and yes...still sleeping in an adjacent room and she is not happy about that either!
 
#32 ·
Its amazing how she was able to completely disengage her empathy for you when she was repeatedly having sex with your friend, and now that you are doing a 180 on her she all of a sudden has to have you under her thumb when you are around other women, even ones she knows?

Striking how selfish and how little self esteem your wife has. Why you are sticking around is beyond me. When are you going to get your own place?
 
#34 ·
Thanks for your comments Bandit!
As of right now I am going to continue the IC, I am thinking I need to write up an "in house separation" agreement where we agree to move towards getting our financial problems taken care of, get projects done at home, and eventually sell the house. I think we should keep contact/talk to a minimum. I would include maybe a once a week get together for a coffee, drink, or lunch/dinner and discuss things. I feel we should both keep our space, and the one main rule would be if either of us has any type of contact with anyone else, we are honest about it and agree to move on...That would be a "deal breaker" for sure! I have a friend who has an extra room and has said it is mine if I want it...no charge. He is a friend I have helped out in the past and his house is paid for. I'm not crazy about his lifestyle but it would get me away for awhile. he was staying down south for the winter and he's coming back mid April....I'll see how things go until then. I'm hoping I can use all this for motivation to get moving on the things I need to get done here...so far, motivation has not worked.... it's hard to focus!
 
#33 ·
Ok...well after the above night I said I will no longer go there... I stopped in again last Wednesday (that's a night all her/our friends are there with free lessons and no cover). I was just having a drink that a friend (guy) bought me and planned on staying for an hour or so. My wife was dancing having a good time and I decided to do a walk around the bar to see if any friends that I knew might be there. My older son has many friends that go to this place as well and they often like to say hi. As I walk around the corner I see the woman (one of them anyway) that apparently my wife feels threatened by. I said hi and said I haven't been here in awhile, the last time was a week and a half ago when we had the Blue Moons...she said yeah I've been working a lot that was the last time I was here too. I said well have a good night, and I proceeded to walk around the outer perimeter of the dance floor and eventually made my way back where I started. I had 1 more drink and went home. Nothing more was said that night...

A couple nights later I had shown my wife and son a new software update on their phones and they started the update. I was playing guitar in the living room and also checking my phone and my wife was having problems with the download for her update and was mumbling about it and I stopped and went in to help. I then went back in to the living room and she was again having a problem. I actually started to get irritated and I yelled give me a minute, I'm checking my phone! The calm finally ended and she went off about me being on my phone and me enjoying my space, and me having my private life.etc, etc, etc... She actually was upset enough she said F you (which doesn't often happen) and I said it back and I retreated upstairs.

That night as I was getting ready for bed (in my room), she finally came in and unloaded on me...She said I was sneaking around and I'm a cheater as well, she called me a thief (because of a few items I bought home from work that were being discarded, as well as something that had been left there by my friend who had quit and moved away), she called me manipulative, a liar....and this went on and on! She also then brought up last Wednesday when we we were at the "dancehall/saloon" and she said I saw how you managed to sneak around the corner to talk to #@**#, I watched you! You thought cause I was dancing I wouldn't notice but you went around the corner, talked to her, and then walked around the entire bar thinking I wouldn't notice! I said, wow...you actually were watching me the entire time weren't you? I told her I did nothing wrong and that although she claims to not trust the "girls", in reality she doesn't trust me, because if she did they would be a non-issue! I tried to reason and she would say - that's right, you are mr. perfect who never does anything wrong, you have an answer for everything! I also tried to explain about the equipment and said I could have done all that behind her back too if I was trying to be sneaky or do something wrong, but no it was all in the open, we went together to a gathering of friends and I dropped it off...(we even took pictures) so again...I always thought everything was ok and now I find she was harboring resentment over that as well, and now I am a thief too?!!

Because of her verbal assault, I almost left again that night but I really have nowhere to go and right now we have no extra money! I stayed, she eventually went to sleep and we have been back to not saying much to each other. We started to talk yesterday but she actually started in about how she thought she was ok with the past situation with my friend from work who moved away over 6 months ago, but apparently she's not and was making all of our issues about me again! I said you are just not ok with me in general and it all comes down to you did me wrong big time...I forgave you and gave you trust, and you can't/don't trust me! I then re-enforced that I will not allow her to make our problems about me and what she believes I've done, this is about what happened in the past and I am finally dealing with it whether she can accept it or not... I had plans to go out on my own last night but a mutual friend stopped over to help my son with a "project bike" and we all just hung out at home and then to bed...alone. Today is a new day!
 
#72 ·
You realize your wife is the manipulative liar, right? She sounds very controling to me. From the way I see it, your wife can't take the pain (you talking with other women) that you have endured. Your wife, or rather STBX, is starting to see what she's done to you and she doesn't like what she sees. Just my point of view.
 
#35 ·
She's losing her control over you and it is driving her batty.

A month ago it seems she was all crying and weeping and wailing over what she had done. This was another way of her controlling you. Now she's getting vindictive.

The more you describe your wife and her escalating behavior, the darker an image I have of her.

In-house separations don't work. They just don't. Read up on all the threads on TAM regarding this.

If I were you I would take your friend's offer to use his room and move out for a while. The only downside is she would probably change the locks and file divorce due to abandonment. I could see your wife being nasty in a divorcee situation.
 
#36 ·
I agree on the in house separation advice, but my friend is not back for about 1 month so I will just try to keep my space as much as possible...like I've said, I need to use the time wisely and get productive on taking care of our home as well as financial issues. I can't help but feel bad for her...We/I is all she has know since she was 17 years old (except for the affair part)... and we have been through and survived a lot! I just feel after all of this, there are too many layers and this is too big. there are bad feelings and resentment from both sides and it will never all be released, especially by her as she holds grudges. I don't think she'd change the locks, my son lives here and he and I have a good relationship so I would be able to get in...but I believe you are right about one thing, I could see her getting vindictive and nasty at some point too. :(
 
#39 ·
Its not that she doesn't trust you. She knows she is losing you and her biggest fear is that you will end up with someone she knows. Its called pre-selection and its both a tool and a curse for women.
 
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