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Considering Divorce or Separation If you're considering divorce or separation, this is the place to talk.

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Old 02-19-2012, 07:59 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Doesn't have anything to do with comprehension. We all told you what we think you should do and you dismissed that. Your call, but it seems you're only here for validation instead of constructive advice, which we gave you.
Very little of the posts here have offered constructive advice. That you think that it does reflects poorly on your intelligence.

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In the whole 15 years ya'll been married and not once she didn't ask for your help? Kinda hard to believe, but if true I can understand why she wouldn't.
Yes, not once, and that is not the only thing. That is just the kind of person she is since before we were married. She has a lot of quirky behaviors that I have just come to accept. So, for you to add, ďI can understand why she wouldn'tĒ is just rude.

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You only state that because she isn't giving you a boat load of sex every day.
Thatís a lie. I never said or implied that and have repeatedly said, ďregular sexĒ. How about even just a handjob once a month?! You are ridiculous!

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Or have you forgotten already that when married, both spouses are in it together?
What a condescending remark. If I were your wife, I wouldíve left you too just based on your behavior here in such a short time.

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No those comments were called for, you just don't want to hear the truth about yourself.
So, now you are the arbiter of truth? No wonder your wife cheated on you and left you.

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You know you should've treated your wife better. If anything, you would be supporting her emotionally instead of thinking solely about sex constantly. The woman popped out 3 kids for you and still has the energy to have sex with you, without fully succumbing to severe depression, like most women would do in her position. Instead of being thankful you continue to think only about your wants.
Generally, Iíve been good to my wife, and generally sheís been good to me. You WAY donít understand the situation. Itís also funny, you state ďboth spouses are in it togetherĒ, but apparently she get a free pass for everything or anything?

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We understand your situation, you just don't want to take the time to acknowledge you are wrong.
Frankly, with responses like yours, itís not likely you understand much of your own life, let alone mine.
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Old 02-19-2012, 08:03 PM   #17 (permalink)
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My life?lol My life is still here and it's better than ever.
"life" was a typo for "wife", which I corrected, and you know what I meant, which tells me you have very little integrity and honesty with yourself.
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Old 02-19-2012, 08:08 PM   #18 (permalink)
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So either you gave it to her or you're implying your wife cheated, which is highly unlikely in this case.
No you are assuming too much because you are ignorant about how HSV-1 might be transmitted to genitals. There is more than one way to get HSV-1 genitally, not just intercourse.

And no, I don't think that my wife cheated.
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Old 02-19-2012, 08:15 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Yes you do [want an affair], you said it yourself.
Absolutely false. Never said or implied that. I stated I was struggling with trying to avoid having an affair, as any normal man might in my situation, and I discussed it with my wife so that we could work thru it together.

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You want some new, "clean" woman that knocks your socks off, instead of having to be careful and considerate of your wife's feelings and her body. I think if that "clean" woman knew about your situation, she would run for the hills.
Absolutely false. I never said or impled I wanted a "clean" woman or even anything like that. With your hair-brained responses, I think you have confused someone else's post with mine.

Why don't you just run on now and go play with your tinker toys. Your posts are not welcome on my thread.
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Old 02-19-2012, 09:12 PM   #20 (permalink)
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MrMojo,

When my W started experiencing pain in intercourse it was tough for both of us. It is also true that she has made an effort to be a great partner despite intercourse often being a non-option.

Long term, i would not have been ok with her taking a "oh well I guess we just won't hardly ever have sex" approach. Plus she is highly affectionate which is just as big a deal to me.

The way you describe this - was like getting hit by lightning. The only thing I do question is why you didn't sort it out before having kids.



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Yes, my wife experiences the same thing. Iím well acquainted with her condition, and I feel awful for her. Why she doesnít try harder to address the problem is beyond me. After months and years of trying acyclovir and Valtrex with little success, she only tried Famvir for the first time a couple weeks ago. It shouldnít take 15 years to get that far. Six months to a year sure, but 15?...



Just to be clear, this is NOT HSV-2, which is what most people recognize as genital herpes. On the surface, I can understand your superficial comment. But on closer and deeper inspection, itís more complicated than how you are characterizing it. I had NO CLUE that I MIGHT have HSV-1 genitally before my wife contracted it. As I stated in the original post, it is PRESUMED that I have HSV-1 genitally and that I contracted it from my ex-wife, who was the only person I had any sexual contact with besides my current wife. I have NO SYMPTOMS of HSV-1 genitally: none. So, I might not even have HSV-1 genitally. A blood test will only show that I have anti-bodies for HSV-1, but that will be the same result for every person who has ever had a cold-sore, for example on their mouth. Anyone who has had a cold-sore (approximately 80% of the population) will have HSV-1 antibodies. It is rare to have HSV-1 genitally because most people have HSV-1 antibodies from a cold-sore on their mouth in their youth. If I had any idea that I might give anyone HSV-1 genitally, I would have had a very frank discussion about it. So your presumptions about this are fairly rude and jump to conclusions. While Iím probably the source of her infection, I very much understand how awful she feels as well as my feelings for her and about my role in it. Most of our aggravation is felt toward my ex-wife, who we believe spread it to me. My wife doesnít blame me. Honestly, I would hate to be your friend, let alone your spouse. You sound very judgmental. What you have completely ignored is my comment about my wifeís failure to be more assertive to address this condition.

Also, any good guy, as I am too, ought to be able to enjoy a healthy sex life in marriage. Particularly, when a guy has not intentional or recklessly brought about conditions that interfere with that. So, how is that wrongly selfish?



Why does anyone end up in an affair: because Iím emotional and sexually neglected.



You must have missed the part of my original post that we have been working on this since we married 15 years ago: that we have talked and talked and have seen, and are seeing a marital counselor. What fears, goals, etc. do you think I may not have already told her at this point? In a gentle way, in a frustrated way, in any good way I couldÖ

The damage is done, but that doesnít resolve the problems at hand, and if she would demonstrate a sense of urgency and priority to trying to deal with her condition, that would give me more hope she cares about our relationship, herself and me.

I havenít made up my mind about divorce, but yes, Iím close to it. Iím trying to find a solid reason or reasons to give me the strength to enjoy what I can and stick to it, but after 15 years of this, Iím not finding any anymore.



This rude comment totally jumps to conclusions.
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Old 02-19-2012, 09:16 PM   #21 (permalink)
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If I had any hope that she would have substantial relief from her HSV-1 outbreaks, I would still try for the relationship that I had hoped for. I believe I could learn to love her for who she is if I could at least have sexual fulfillment, but I feel just plain neglected. So, I have nearly decided upon divorce, and to start over with a new relationship when I’m ready.


What would you do if you were me? Give up and start over? Or stick it out and maybe end up in an affair?
Hi MrMojo ~

You've mentioned that she has been on various medications, yes? Is it possible that with little luck so far in trying to get relief from this, that she has given up hope on getting her outbreaks under control?

Has she ever been seen by an infectious diseases doctor? Would she be willing to go?

And...there's got to be more here. Because even during an outbreak, presumably you could be intimate in other ways. Does that ever happen?

How does your wife feel about all of this?

You said that you attended marriage counseling before and it 'didn't work'. What happened to get you to go to counseling? Why did you give up?

And, honestly, if you and your wife cannot resolve the issues, then divorce is always a better option than cheating.

Best wishes.
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Old 02-19-2012, 10:14 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Default Re: My sexual frustration and considering divorce.

There are several things in this post that makes me suspecious that this is not real:

I am not aware of herpes that does not respond to at lest one or a combination of antiviral agents.

Having frequent severe outbreaks would indicate that she is severly immune compromised and that would show in other ways

She has had to have c sections for all three births if she has incurable genital herpes. Each prenancy is risky because an outbreak while pregnant could spread to the fetus. Also taking antiviral drugs in the first two trimesters may effect fetal develpoement. under these circumstances any responsible medical professional would advise her to get her tubes tied after the 2nd child, if not the first.

The OP wants to argue, and says things to excite outrage.

Can't keep his story strait - he is happily married, not happily married contemplating divorce, frequency is not a problem then it is, she does not refuse him then she does.

Looking for a clean woman to infect. Now if that does not excite outrage...

He has not been tested which is a ridiculous claim.

No one is as cold as this man unless he is dead.

This is probably the same person who has been posting other fantastic tales only to engage in arguments.

I say starve him out - if he is real he is not listening anyway.
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Old 02-19-2012, 10:15 PM   #23 (permalink)
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MrMojo,

When my W started experiencing pain in intercourse it was tough for both of us. It is also true that she has made an effort to be a great partner despite intercourse often being a non-option.

Long term, i would not have been ok with her taking a "oh well I guess we just won't hardly ever have sex" approach. Plus she is highly affectionate which is just as big a deal to me.

The way you describe this - was like getting hit by lightning. The only thing I do question is why you didn't sort it out before having kids.
Mem, thank you for a thoughtful post.

Good question. I felt somehow we would work it out. She demanded we have kids or she was going to leave, and at the time I couldnít bear being divorced a second time, among other considerations. I love my kids. They are not a mistake. We purposely sought to have children. But I/we maybe/probably made a mistake moving forward with kids before this was sorted out.

Iím jealous of the affection. It is a big deal to me too, but my wife is not affectionate like that. Iíve kind of learned to live with that.

Iím sorry you both went thru health problems. I hope it has improved.

Yea, it came like lightning, and in some ways, I think I am only now just coming to grips with what it really means. Perhaps my optimism that things will work out have clouded my acceptance that her health really wonít improve ever. I have a hard time accepting that.

Unlike your situation, my dear wife has not made much of an effort to be a good partner despite intercourse often being a non-option. I have not learned to live with that well despite much discussion with her about it. She rarely, mostly never, initiates sex. This is just her personality. So, I/we have tried to address it in different ways, mostly unsuccessful.
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Old 02-19-2012, 10:27 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Default Re: My sexual frustration and considering divorce.

Mojo,
She is somewhat better. Maybe 1/3 of the time she has no pain and we can connect in the usual way. The other 2/3 she is happy to do "other stuff".

A different way to put this is: There is never any doubt in my mind that me and my happiness are paramount to my W. She knows the sexual part of marriage matters to me so she makes it a priority. I know she has pain and am super careful to ensure she feels no pressure to have intercourse when her condition is flaring. And we both love "touch" so every night I am not on business travel is a 'high touch' night.

I understand you initially felt guilty about her condition and it sounds like she boot strapped that into a "we MUST have kids" move. Difficult situation for you to be in. If my W showed indifference to the physical aspect of our marriage we would quickly have a "situation".



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Mem, thank you for a thoughtful post.

Good question. I felt somehow we would work it out. She demanded we have kids or she was going to leave, and at the time I couldnít bear being divorced a second time, among other considerations. I love my kids. They are not a mistake. We purposely sought to have children. But I/we maybe/probably made a mistake moving forward with kids before this was sorted out.

Iím jealous of the affection. It is a big deal to me too, but my wife is not affectionate like that. Iíve kind of learned to live with that.

Iím sorry you both went thru health problems. I hope it has improved.

Yea, it came like lightning, and in some ways, I think I am only now just coming to grips with what it really means. Perhaps my optimism that things will work out have clouded my acceptance that her health really wonít improve ever. I have a hard time accepting that.

Unlike your situation, my dear wife has not made much of an effort to be a good partner despite intercourse often being a non-option. I have not learned to live with that well despite much discussion with her about it. She rarely, mostly never, initiates sex. This is just her personality. So, I/we have tried to address it in different ways, mostly unsuccessful.
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Old 02-19-2012, 10:40 PM   #25 (permalink)
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There are several things in this post that makes me suspecious that this is not real:

I am not aware of herpes that does not respond to at lest one or a combination of antiviral agents.

Having frequent severe outbreaks would indicate that she is severly immune compromised and that would show in other ways
Exactly, my point! There seems to be more going on there. I have been trying to get her to take responsibility for her medical problem and get the HELP she needs to figure out what is going on! She does not include me. She gets defensive, but she doesn’t address it seriously enough. I mostly stay out of it, but I haven’t let it go. For example, we first discussed the possibility of getting some immunology diagnosis done about 8 years ago. She has yet to see an immunologist! She wouldn’t have started the Famvir if I hadn’t pressured her to get a prescription. How many times do you have to try Acyclovir and Valtrex over and over and for them not to work until you acknowledge they don’t work?


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She has had to have c sections for all three births if she has incurable genital herpes, having 3 babies under tgese circumstances seems unusual
Incredibly, no c-sections. Yes, this was a very serious concern for us. VERY fortunately for us, she generally did not have any serious outbreaks while she was pregnant, and mostly while she was nursing. She did have other issues, but the virus seemed to go into remission during these times. We discussed possible hormone correlation to the virus. Yet she has made no attempt for diagnosis for that either. As soon as the last child was being weaned, I made it very clear to her she needed to make sure that she took care of the virus issue. I felt she ignored me. Her outbreaks started again in June and have been ongoing more or less since then.

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The OP wants to argue, and says things to excite outrage.
Whatever, that is completely callous.

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Can't keep his story strait - he is happily married, not happily married contemplating divorce.
Whatever. My wife is a good woman. She is not a great spouse. We generally get along, but that does not mean we are happily married. I never said we were happily married.

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Looking for a clean woman to infect. Now if that does not excite outrage...
I HAVE NEVER SAID NOR IMPLIED I WAS LOOKING FOR A CLEAN WOMAN. And certainly not one to infect! Are you trying to be a jerk?! If so, I’d rather you just go away and not post.

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He has not been tested which is a ridiculous claim.
I’ve never said I have not been tested. Blood tests show that I have HSV-1 antibodies, but those blood tests will show positive for HSV-1 antibodies for 80% of the population. I have had no skin samples to test because I have no outbreaks or symptoms visible to the eye.

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This is probably the same person who has been posting other fantastic tales only to engage in arguments.
No you are dead wrong, and I would rather that you just go away and not post on my thread anymore.

Last edited by MrMojoGenX; 02-20-2012 at 08:30 AM.
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Old 02-20-2012, 08:17 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Enchantment, thanks for a thoughtful post.

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You've mentioned that she has been on various medications, yes? Is it possible that with little luck so far in trying to get relief from this, that she has given up hope on getting her outbreaks under control?
She might not be as optimistic as I am that maybe more can be done to get the outbreaks under control, but I donít feel she has given up. I feel that she just doesnít feel itís as important to address.

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Has she ever been seen by an infectious diseases doctor? Would she be willing to go?
No, she has had an immunology blood test done, but she hasnít seen a specialist. This is one of my complaints. I still try to persuade her to go.

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And...there's got to be more here. Because even during an outbreak, presumably you could be intimate in other ways. Does that ever happen?
When she is at the peak of her outbreaks and in pain, I do not ask for intimacy. I donít want her to feel pressured when she is in pain and uncomfortable. But at other times during her less severe times of her outbreaks and when she does not have outbreaks, she does not try much to be intimate in other ways. As I stated in my original post, she has some sexual hang-ups. One of them is initiating sexual intimacy.

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How does your wife feel about all of this?
I could write a book to answer that question. Generally she is depressed about the situation. Putting aside sex, itís a difficult health condition to live with and still attend to responsibilities. So, it confounds me that she doesnít put more effort and priority into getting it under control.

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You said that you attended marriage counseling before and it 'didn't work'. What happened to get you to go to counseling? Why did you give up?
We are currently in counseling for 2 months now, and still trying on that front. Weíve tried two other times years ago, and because of money and time and the therapists involved, it was difficult to do.

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And, honestly, if you and your wife cannot resolve the issues, then divorce is always a better option than cheating.
I agree.
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Old 02-20-2012, 08:29 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Mojo,
She is somewhat better. Maybe 1/3 of the time she has no pain and we can connect in the usual way. The other 2/3 she is happy to do "other stuff".

A different way to put this is: There is never any doubt in my mind that me and my happiness are paramount to my W. She knows the sexual part of marriage matters to me so she makes it a priority. I know she has pain and am super careful to ensure she feels no pressure to have intercourse when her condition is flaring. And we both love "touch" so every night I am not on business travel is a 'high touch' night.

I understand you initially felt guilty about her condition and it sounds like she boot strapped that into a "we MUST have kids" move. Difficult situation for you to be in. If my W showed indifference to the physical aspect of our marriage we would quickly have a "situation".
Iím glad you both have something that works. Iím not in the same boat there. There is doubt in my mind that me and my happiness are paramount to my W particularly on sex. Thatís why I am at the point I am. Besides her health condition, she doesnít demonstrate that sex is important enough. So, even in good health, there is a problem.

Yes, I did feel terrible about my role in her condition. I cared for her, we were married 7 years at that point, and we wanted kids. Despite concerns, we moved forward with kids. I believed we would be able to work out those concerns, but it hasnít changed. I love my kids, but our choice to have kids definitely complicates matters.
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Old 02-20-2012, 10:51 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Generally she is depressed about the situation. Putting aside sex, itís a difficult health condition to live with and still attend to responsibilities. So, it confounds me that she doesnít put more effort and priority into getting it under control.
Well, I think that may be the answer as to why she isn't putting more effort in to the whole thing. When a person is depressed, they simply don't respond with the same verve and zest that a non-depressed person would.

Perhaps you are barking up the wrong tree, so to speak. Perhaps she needs to get her *mental* health on a better footing in order to be able to tackle her *physical* health. When people have chronic conditions, it can be so very difficult for them, and depression is often a natural result.

Coping With Chronic Illnesses and Depression

Best wishes.
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