I talked some with my counselor again today (the one that was previously our marriage counselor, but which my wife refuses to go back to because I "lie"). She said it sounds like my wife is "answer shopping," trying to find a counselor who will take "her side."
She recommended that I approach this situation like this: "I don't think we are ready to resume marriage counseling right now as a couple. We both have issues that probably need to be dealt with on an individual basis. So I think it would be great if you want to start going to your own counselor for now. At some point in the future, we can consider going back as a couple."
She said my wife's reaction to this might be VERY revealing as to whether my wife is willing to work on things or not.
Most of my friends tell me that without a radical decision on her part to seek help on her own, that this slight thaw really means nothing in the grand scheme of things. And when I'm thinking clearly, I probably agree.
Hurt, please listen to your friends. And listen to the logical adult part of your mind.
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In the past, I've been pulled back from the brink of considering divorce by periods of temporary improvement.
Me too. Indeed, I spent 15 years reading too much into the up periods of the cycle. BIG MISTAKE. Please stop doing it.
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My counselor is warning me of the potential for my wife to become angry, make another false allegation, and that I could lose my son.
Given your objective of wanting to avoid jail time and to share custody of your son, it is helpful to separate while she is in one of her better moods. Yet, if you are going to get all mushy and start doubting yourself every time her behavior returns to "tolerable," you will end up splitting at the nastiest of times -- thus having to negotiate a settlement at the worst possible time. Moreover, as your counselor says, every day you remain with her puts you at great risk of her making another false allegation -- perhaps putting you in jail as my BPDer exW did to me.
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But am I giving up too soon?
No. On the contrary, you should have walked out at least two years ago.
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I'm about to pass the last exit ramp.... once I make my intentions known, she'll torch me to all of our friends and family).
Excuse me? Are you serious??? She's already done that repeatedly over the past two years. The result is that you've already been abandoned by her friends and her family so intensely detests you that you are not even allowed to visit their home. Hence, instead of talking about all the exit ramps that you've passed, you should be thinking instead of all the bridges she has burned. If you simply turn around and take a look, you will see that all of them are still burning.
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This would be so much easier if she were disordered in her thinking ALL the time!
If she has most BPD traits at a strong level -- as you've described -- she is disordered nearly all the time. Significantly, a BPDer's perception of your intentions is distorted BOTH when she is splitting you black and when she is splitting you white too. That's the way black-white thinking works, as we've discussed before. Granted, there can be "moments of clarity" but they typically rarely occur and have zero impact on the marriage.
You have no idea how helpful your insight is at times like this. I've been living in an insane world so long, my perspective is very skewed.
I know a woman at work who recently divorced her abusive husband. She told me it's amazing what you can rationalize after you've lived with it for so long. She said she used to rationalize that "he only hits me when the kids aren't around....as long as the kids don't see it, it must not be all that bad..."
She said there's no way she would want her daughter to ever think like that when she gets married. But it's just the normalization of abnormal behavior.
So I guess I've lived with the smear campaigns for so long, they seem like my "new normal."
Thanks for the perspective! I'm going be making the list that "SlowyGettingWiser" suggested. Since I'm alone this weekend anyway, I might as well put the solitude to good use!
I still struggle with which decision is the right decision. I have rented an inexpensive sleeping room with some local college students, and a storage unit. I have rented a PO box. I will soon be opening a separate bank account.
In the last couple of months, things have tamed down a bit. She hasn't made any bizarre accusations. She hasn't blamed me for accidents that happen with our son. There have been times that she has actually stopped and listened to my point of view. I won't say that we've suddenly had moments of romance and touching or sex (or even "I love you") is still a distant memory, but the bad times aren't as numerous as they were this time last year. Now instead of a roommate that she hates, I've become the roommate that she grudgingly puts up with. And sometimes even appreciates, but not very often.
She says she's willing to try a different marriage counselor. My counselor says that maybe I should recommend that she seek counseling of her own, that we aren't ready to return to marriage counseling yet. I haven't broached that subject yet. My counselor believes she's probably "answer shopping," hoping to find a marriage counselor who agrees with her. And I was also warned that if we go to a marriage counselor who doesn't have experience working with personality disorders, then we could end up wasting a lot of time and money.
Part of me wonders if this is the beginning of a new awakening. The other part of me wonders is this is just a part of the cycle of verbal abuse, or the push-pull BPD cycle.
I jusst eem to always be walking on eggshells. I'm afraid to actually talk about the situation for fear of how badly things I say will get distorted. The last time I suggested she get a psychological evaluation, she went livid and asked me why in the world SHE would need an evaluation when ***I*** am the one with the problems.
I spent some time alone a few weekends ago and used the list that slowly_getting_wiser suggested. Here's what I came up with:
Best case scenario for staying....maybe we could be civil to each other, but I doubt that real trust or real intimacy would be achieved for a long, long time.
Worst case for me staying....she might be able to conjure up some story about me that somebody would believe and I would lose my freedom, my job, and my son. We would be showing my son a bad example of what a marriage looks like (much like my parents modeled a miserable marriage for me because they felt they had a duty to stay together "for the kids"). Since I had a bad model of marriage from my parents, I had no idea what to look for when I chose a mate, and as a result I ignored some very obvious red flags.
Best case scenario for me leaving....I could become emotionally healthy and be the best part-time Daddy I could be, and maybe help buffer my son from his mother's insanity.
Worst case scenario for me leaving....I would be giving up on a situation that while extremely difficult, might be salvageable. I would set a bad example for my son about giving up when times get tough. I would be forsaking my vows.
Where do I want to be in 5 years? Emotionally healthy, happy and have a good relationship with my son. I want to be employed in a career that stimulates my intellect. I love the field I work in now, so my hope is to be further into it and have more influence and responsibility than I do now, but to basically be doing the same thing.....it's nice to have a job you love! If possible, I want to be in a loving, nurturing relationship that has a very low level of drama.
My only problem....I don't know how to get there from here! This decision would be so much easier if she were still flaming me and throwing stones every chance she got. But now that she actually seems to be calming down a little, I wonder....did I imagine it all? Was it really as bad as I remember it? Is there hope for change, and am I being impulsive to think about ending things? Am I a bad person for wanting out when she seems to be trying a little?
I want to be in a loving, nurturing relationship that has a very low level of drama. ...My only problem....I don't know how to get there from here!
When someone confuses you that much through their actions -- as your W has done -- they are NOT going to take time to clarify it all for you. Being in pain, you naturally want relief from it. The problem, of course, is that you keep going to the source of that pain -- i.e., to the relationship itself -- for easing. THAT WON'T HAPPEN if your W is a BPDer. I know because I tried it myself for 15 years.
Eventually you will come to a place where you take responsibility for your pain and own it. Significantly, this doesn't mean you will relieve your partner of her wrongdoing. After all, explaining her behavior does not excuse it. Rather, it means that you will recognize that you are the one -- the ONLY one -- who can put a stop to your suffering. At that point, seeking answers and validation from that partner no longer is important because you've taken the power out of her hands and regained control of your own life.
As I said earlier, Hurt, it takes TWO willing partners to sustain a toxic marriage year after year. Hence, the toxicity is not something SHE is doing to you. Rather, it is something you BOTH are doing to each other. Although her role is easy to see, yours is not because -- as the "enabler" -- you are convinced you are "only trying to help."
Yet, if your W has strong BPD traits, your continued efforts to protect her from suffering the logical consequences of her own childish behavior is harming you both. If she is to ever have an opportunity to grow up and confront her own issues, she must be allowed to suffer those logical consequences.
Uptown...I hope my posts over the last year aren't coming across as blaming her. I do have my own issues and I own them. I can be insensitive at times. When hurt, I tend to withdraw, which can seem at times to be withholding of affection. I get that. And those are things that can be worked on in a normal marriage.
What I'm struggling to find out is this: Is there a mortal wound in our marriage (due to BPD or whatever else) that makes it impossible for us to heal? Is the toxicity (which I completely own as being partly my fault) something that can be overcome, or does my wife truly have a personality disorder that makes long-term success unlikely?
Since she refuses to get evaluated - and since BPD often fails detection of some of the more standard tests - this is at best a moot point.
I just don't know. The whole thing is so bewildering.
What I'm struggling to find out is this: Is there a mortal wound in our marriage (due to BPD or whatever else) that makes it impossible for us to heal? Is the toxicity (which I completely own as being partly my fault) something that can be overcome, or does my wife truly have a personality disorder that makes long-term success unlikely?
You're right. It's a moot point. Because whether or not it's BPD, there's something wrong with her personality, alright. Would it really make the prognosis for your marriage one bit better if it's not BPD? If her past behaviors were not caused by BPD (and I agree with Uptown...it might explain it, but not excuse it) and she just chose to treat you that way all these years because she's a horrible person, she's no more likely to magically transform into a good spouse.
Your wife seems more than troubled. It's been a long time since I read your other thread, but I remember that she seemed dangerous and abusive. And I don't throw around the word "abusive" like some. Your best/worst case scenarios say it all to me. Look at where you want to be in 5 years. Which is the only choice that could get you there?
Hurtn,
The best thing to do here to try and rebalance the marriage is to move out, and file separation papers. Not divorce - but separation. Do it while she is away. And then more out - partially - to your new place. So you will be gone when she returns. Leave her a short note - VERY short.
Wife,
I love you and want this to work. If you also want it to work you need to approach me in a calm, constrcutive manner. And you need to agree to attend MC counseling with me. IF you attend MC, do the evercies we get assigned and bring sexual intimacy back into the marriage, and completely stop with the toxic/hostile behavior, I would be open to returning.
If instead you believe that I am the problem, and you don't want to attend MC together, we should part amicably by divorce.
And then let her decide on a R or a big D.
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Originally Posted by hurtnohio
Hello everyone.
Here's an update on my situation. The long and the short of it is that I've been in an emotionally and verbally abusive marriage for quite some time. The last 12 - 18 months have been the worst. I've been accused of some very bizarre things and when I wasn't under some kind of false accusation, I was being talked down to, scolded, been called names, etc. We tried counseling for a year until my wife refused to return. We sleep in separate rooms and have not had sex in over a year.
For about 6 months, I was actually praying for death. I wanted God to kill me in a traffic accident. Or I hoped maybe a random stranger would kill me. I could never harm myself by my own hand, but I did desire death and actively prayed for it. I've been told this is a common feeling for people in abusive relationships. Since I began to accept the fact that I might need to leave, I haven't wished for death again. But that was a very, very dark time for me. I tried as hard as I could to please her, and she just got more angy all the time. Since even my best efforts weren't good enough to make her happy, I despaired of living.
But once I realized that a lot of the problems were hers, I quit taking responsibility for pleasing her. I don't wish for death any more. But the relationship hasn't been restored, either.
Our (now my) counselor says I need to leave. We suspect some serious mental issues on my wife's part. The counselor is concerned that at some point, my wife might get somebody to believe her weird stories (the best one was the accusation that I was bugging our home phones, but there have been others!). We never have a conversation over anything any deeper than what to have for supper.
So I've set up a PO Box, and have rented a room in a house with some local college students. Don't know if I'll actually use it, but I do have a (somewhat cheap) bed to crash in if I need it. I've rented a storage unit and have moved a lot of my things into it, but I've done it strategically, so that I didn't leave empty shelves or anything like that in my closet. I have put together some preliminary proposals for divorce (child custody, alimony, etc) and have consulted with an attorney. I have a counselor's appointment in a few hours.
My wife leaves town tomorrow for a week with her family (her visit is unrelated to our issues; but she has so poisoned her family to me that they have completely written me off and they have forbidden me to come back whenever she visits).
Here's the difficult part. The last few weeks have been almost tolerable. Not good. Not affectionate. No "I love you's." No touching (I'm afraid to touch her, because of some past false allegations of abuse). But we've actually acted like we're almost roommates who like each other. We're still roommates, but we're not at each others' throats (figuratively, of course!) every night like we were a couple of months ago.
Here's what I need to talk to the counselor about....is this slight thaw enough to say things might be improving? Most of my friends tell me that without a radical decision on her part to seek help on her own, that this slight thaw really means nothing in the grand scheme of things. And when I'm thinking clearly, I probably agree. But I just don't want to be "that guy" who walks out the door if there's still a chance.
In the past, I've been pulled back from the brink of considering divorce by periods of temporary improvement. One such period was the happiest period of our marriage (she was on anti-depressants at the time, but refuses to take them any more). But the 12-18 monhts of happiness always end with a crash back down to pits of despair. Ridicule, name-calling, smear campaigns....you name it. The only thing she hasn't done is anything illegal or had an affair.
One of my friends asked what "a chance" would look like. And then my friend explained it to me: She needs to confess her part of our problems (so far, she just wants me to get "fixed" and then things will be great!). She needs to commit to counseling. She needs to be willing to go to everyone to whom she's smeared my name and sit down with them, me and her and discuss what's really going on. My friend told me that absent that kind of commitment, this temporary thaw is just that....temporary. And that I shouldn't be basing my future on just a couple of months after almost 2 years of a living hell.
My counselor is warning me of the potential for my wife to become angry, make another false allegation, and that I could lose my son. Or my job. Or my very freedom. The counselor has worked with us for a year, and I'm wondering if she's seeing something more clearly than I can. I'm just so lost.
I'm emotionally ready to leave. I tried my hardest to make it work and things just got worse. I have given up hope. I'm emotionally wrung out from holding out hope on all those lonely nights. All those tears I cried alone, hoping that one more visit to the counselor might make things better. I just want the drama to be done.
But am I giving up too soon? My heart has accepted that things are probably ending and I need to move on. But then I see the smallest glimmer of a change in her and I wonder if I'm being too impulsive? Am I wrong to want out? Could this be the beginning of a bigger change? Or is it the same-old, same-old?
I feel as if with everything I am doing, I am getting ready to head out across Death Valley on a summer day. I know things will get very ugly once I tell her I'm leaving. I'm about to pass the last exit ramp. If I don't pull back from this brink now, I'm probably going to be committed to a divorce (my wife is very black-and-white in her thinking; once I make my intentions known, she'll torch me to all of our friends and family).
I'm going to talk to the counselor in a few hours, but I'd appreciate any perspective here. Those of you who know my story....is it time? Am I acting wrongly here? If your wife had told people things about you that were completely and utterly untrue, would you stay around if she slowly started saying, "Please" and "Thank You?" Am I suffering from Stockholm Syndrome?
This would be so much easier if she were disordered in her thinking ALL the time! As it is, the temporary periods of positive moods makes me wonder if I was crazy the whole time.
Uptown...I hope my posts over the last year aren't coming across as blaming her. I do have my own issues and I own them.
Sorry, Hurt, I misspoke. What I've been trying to say for the past three months is that, like me, you have weak personal boundaries -- making it difficult for you to see where your issues stop and your wife's issues begin. I believe that, once you subtract away her huge issues, the remaining issues -- yours -- are far smaller than you believe. Namely, you've been playing the role of enabler because you are trapped in the marriage by a feeling of guilt. It is the unnecessary guilt, then, that I've been trying to help you with.
If your W has strong BPD traits and refuses to seek treatment on her own volition, forcing her into therapy by threatening D is unlikely to be productive -- as your MC told you. That is the path I took and it did not end well. I spent a small fortune sending my exW to six different psychologists for weekly visits for 15 years -- all to no avail.
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Is the toxicity (which I completely own as being partly my fault) something that can be overcome, or does my wife truly have a personality disorder that makes long-term success unlikely?
Nobody on this forum can tell you whether she has BPD. Only a professional can do that. And, as I've explained before, there is little chance a professional will tell her -- much less YOU -- the name of her disorder even if she has full-blown BPD.
Hence, your best chance of obtaining a candid professional opinion (not a formal diagnosis) is to see a clinical psychologist ON YOUR OWN for a visit or two. He may be willing to say "it sounds like your W has...." But, then, he may not be willing to do so. This is why I encourage all people married to abusive spouses to read about the BPD traits.
Of course, you won't be able to do a diagnosis. But, for the purposes of deciding whether to remain married to her, it does not matter whether her BPD traits meet the diagnostic threshold for "having BPD." Even when they are well below that threshold, they can make your life miserable, damage your son, and destroy a marriage.
Moreover, the red flags are easy to spot. There is nothing subtle about behavioral traits such as verbal abuse, temper tantrums, inability to trust, blaming you for every misfortune, black-white thinking, and rapid Jekyll-Hyde transformations. That's why I encouraged you to read Stop Walking on Eggshells, which you have already read.
Significantly, both your attorney and counselor have already encouraged you to leave her as soon as possible. If you want further support for that decision, I suggest you see a clinical psychologist as I described. In selecting one, keep in mind that skill sets among psychologists -- as with members of any profession -- vary greatly. It therefore would be helpful to obtain a reference from a trusted doctor or by calling the psych department of a local hospital or university -- or looking at online recommendations.
Sorry, Hurt, I misspoke. What I've been trying to say for the past three months is that, like me, you have weak personal boundaries -- making it difficult for you to see where your issues stop and your wife's issues begin.
Yes, I do have weak boundaries. I had this problem in the past with other relationships and even some work issues. Fortunately, I've learned where the boundaries are in the other relationships (co-workers, etc) and am actually being recognized at work as a pro-active and influential team member. That's something that would not have happened 10 years ago, as I was even afraid to enforce boundaries at work. I think if nothing else, living through this madness with my wife has made me a stronger person. Stronger in all ways, except with her. There's an area where I still struggle. Maybe because divorce (or even separation, which to someone with abandonment issues is going to feel like the same thing) is such a big step.
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I believe that, once you subtract away her huge issues, the remaining issues -- yours -- are far smaller than you believe.
My counselor made the same comment. I was blaming myself for occasionally raising my voice and speaking in an animated way when I get frustrated (I've never yelled, but I talk faster and slightly louder when I'm perturbed). The counselor told me it was impossible for someone to live in a pressure cooker for years and not occasionally get angry.
I guess I've internalized my wife's messages to me about myself all these years. People at work actually laugh when I apologize for getting angry at work....they say that my version of a temper tantrum is setting my coffee cup down on my desk firmly (without breaking it!). So when I later apologize for my "anger," they usually ask "what anger?"
And I will state it again in case anyone didn't catch it before: I swear that I have never laid a hand on either my son or my wife in anger. And no, I've never bugged my phones, either.
But here's the confusing part. When I call my wife's attention to some of her outrageous behavior, she'll sometimes apologize. (Other times, she'll belittle me and tell me I must be tired because I'm making stuff up..which makes me wonder if she was dissociating about those times). When I swore to her that I didn't bug the phones, she told me she believed me (of course, she also told our family doctor that I was going crazy because she suspected I had bugged the phones...but I don't know if that was before or after I told her I hadn't).
So the behavior is VERY confusing. It's like I'm being given two messages.....she hates me, can't trust me, and says I deserve to be talked down to like a child, OR she's sorry she over-reacted, she wants to see things from my point of view, and she wants to make sure my son has lots of time with Daddy.
And maybe that's the most abusive part of this whole mess. A year ago this time, she was threatening to take him and run away with him where I could never find them. Now, she's going out of her way to make sure he spends as much time with me as possible (my job requires me to travel a lot, which is a blessing right now...it keeps me out of the line of fire). So last year, I was grieving for my marriage and wanting to make it work. Now that I've mentally and emotionally given up, she seems to be wanting to improve things. I'm just afraid if I open up to the possibility that things might get better, she'll go the other way again. And to me, that is the ultimate in abuse. I don't think she's doing this intentionally, but it almost seems as if she's always trying to do just the opposite of what I'm wanting. As if she's trying to keep me off-balance.
And the sad thing is, I've been down this road before. Almost 6 years ago, I was seriously considering leaving her over this same type of stuff (although it wasn't nearly this severe). Then things got better for almost a year. Markedly better. Almost as good as when we were newlyweds kind of better (this was one of the times she was taking Cymbalta, so I wonder if the effects of the Cymbalta on her mood might have been part of the improvement). Then we learned she was pregnant, and we were excited planning for the baby. His first 6 months with us, we were really, really happy. But somewhere, the old problems kept creeping back in until they reached their nadir last year.
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Nobody on this forum can tell you whether she has BPD. Only a professional can do that. And, as I've explained before, there is little chance a professional will tell her -- much less YOU -- the name of her disorder even if she has full-blown BPD.
And that presents a conundrum. The counselor told me to never tell her I suspect BPD. OK, but I am supposed to tell her I think she could benefit from some IC. The counselor suggested that I say it's to help her "learn to deal with me" or something like that.
It's so disheartening in a way that if I do leave her, I can't even tell her the real reason why!
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Significantly, both your attorney and counselor have already encouraged you to leave her as soon as possible. If you want further support for that decision, I suggest you see a clinical psychologist as I described. In selecting one, keep in mind that skill sets among psychologists -- as with members of any profession -- vary greatly. It therefore would be helpful to obtain a reference from a trusted doctor or by calling the psych department of a local hospital or university -- or looking at online recommendations.
That's a good idea. I might just have to do that.
I'm fortunate in that one of my college roommates way back when was a psychology major. He's a doctor of psychology now, and we've stayed in touch over the years. He says that everything I've described sounds like BPD to him, and he's strongly encouraging me to leave. While his "diagnosis" is informal and he's very careful to make sure I know that it's not an official diagnosis and that ethically he's too emotionally close to me to ever be my "real" counselor....but even with all those caveats, he's telling me in no uncertain terms that I need to leave.
Here's the bottom line of my current struggle: If she were still raging at me every night, and engaging in the character assassination and all the other stuff that was so common this past year, I'd be out the door. But since things have calmed down a little bit and she seems to be trying, I'm having second thoughts.
My psychologist friend made an important point to me: Sick people can sometimes pull it together for a while and act healthy. But healthy people won't go off the deep end and act as sick as she has acted over the last two years. He says he thinks she's somehow managed to pull herself together in the short term because she's sensing I'm thinking about leaving and she wants to reel me back in.
Why do I have such a hard time seeing the pathology living right under my nose for what it is? Sometimes I think ****I'm*** the crazy one here!
Yes, living with an unstable spouse is very confusing. As I mentioned before, this is why -- of the several dozen mental disorders listed in the diagnostic manual -- BPD is the only one that is notorious for making a large share of the partners and spouses feel like they are going crazy.
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It's like I'm being given two messages.....she hates me, can't trust me, and says I deserve to be talked down to like a child, OR she's sorry she over-reacted, she wants to see things from my point of view, and she wants to make sure my son has lots of time with Daddy.
Yes, that's why the #2 best-selling BPD book (targeted to the spouses) is called I Hate You, Don't Leave Me! Like bipolar sufferers, BPDers alternate back and forth between two extreme poles -- but on a very different spectrum. Whereas bipolar sufferers swing between mania and depression, BPDers flip back and forth between adoration (loving you) and devaluation (hating you). This BPDer behavior -- called black-white thinking -- arises from a BPDer's intolerance of ambiguities and uncertainties.
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It's so disheartening in a way that if I do leave her, I can't even tell her the real reason why!
Yes, it is disheartening. Yet, if she is a BPDer, she will unconsciously project the accusation right back onto you -- with the result that she will be convinced you are the BPDer. Knowing that, I nonetheless told my exW because I did not want to leave any stone left unturned. That was four years ago -- and she still believes I am the one who is a BPDer.
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He's a doctor of psychology now, and we've stayed in touch over the years. He says that everything I've described sounds like BPD to him, and he's strongly encouraging me to leave.
Hurt, a professional opinion on high functioning BPD doesn't get much better than that. Like I discussed, there is virtually no chance of obtaining an official diagnosis because almost any therapist seeing her will be loath to tell her the name of the disorder. Your best chance of obtaining a candid professional "opinion," then, is to do exactly what you did -- see a psychologist on your own and describe the behavior you've seen. Of course, there is no harm in obtaining a second professional opinion if you want more reassurance.
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Here's the bottom line of my current struggle: ...since things have calmed down a little bit and she seems to be trying, I'm having second thoughts [about leaving her].
For excessive caregivers like us, there is virtually no chance of our walking away from a sick loved one unless we are very angry. I therefore suspect you will just have to bide your time until she cycles from splitting you white to splitting you black again.
When that happens, hold onto your anger. Remember that, when trying to break free from a toxic marriage, RIGHTEOUS ANGER IS YOUR FRIEND. Use it as a crutch to walk away to safety and then -- a year later when you are safely out of the relationship -- toss that crutch aside.
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Sometimes I think ****I'm*** the crazy one here!
Like I said in your thread last July, people with strong BPD traits usually have that effect on their spouses -- an effect that is called "gaslighting." It is named after the 1944 classic movie Gaslight, in which a husband (Charles Boyer) tries to drive his new bride (Ingrid Bergman) crazy so as to have her institutionalized, allowing him to run off with her family jewels. Usually, however, the BPDers are not actually trying to "drive you crazy" but, rather, are simply reacting to their distorted perceptions of your intentions.
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Why do I have such a hard time seeing the pathology living right under my nose for what it is?
You DON'T have a hard time seeing it, as far as I can tell. I believe you already had a good understanding of it when we discussed it last July. Understanding it at the intellectual, adult level, however, is the easy part.
What is HARD is convincing your intuitive inner child that your new-found knowledge is actually true. Until you feel is to be true at a gut level -- i.e., until you've converted knowledge into wisdom -- you will be reluctant to act on that knowledge.
Don't be surprised, then, that your "inner child" has been lagging many months behind your "adult logic." Because the intuitive child learns primarily from intense feelings, that part of you will make another big step forward the next time she breaks your heart. Hopefully, it will only take one more love-hate cycle to close that gap between your logical adult and intuitive child.
I wish I knew you in real life hurt. I feel for your situation so much because I can see so much of me in your wife. Like others have said, even if she isn't BPD, there is something seriously wrong with her behavior.
If she is BPD, she will soon find something wrong with you again.....the calm you are experiencing now, it won't last. It is a pattern that will keep repeating to infinity.
If you were someone I personally knew, I would tell you to run. You are doing yourself and your son a huge disservice by letting this sort of thing continue. Your son will pick up on his mother's behaviors.
I truly wish you the best of luck. My heart breaks for you because I know how horrific it is to live with someone like that. I did it to my H for so many years. He has a very hard time believing in my ability to be better due to the fact that for at least 10yrs I was super, batsh!t crazy b*tch.
I wish I knew you in real life hurt. I feel for your situation so much because I can see so much of me in your wife. Like others have said, even if she isn't BPD, there is something seriously wrong with her behavior.
If she is BPD, she will soon find something wrong with you again.....the calm you are experiencing now, it won't last. It is a pattern that will keep repeating to infinity.
If you were someone I personally knew, I would tell you to run. You are doing yourself and your son a huge disservice by letting this sort of thing continue. Your son will pick up on his mother's behaviors.
I truly wish you the best of luck. My heart breaks for you because I know how horrific it is to live with someone like that. I did it to my H for so many years. He has a very hard time believing in my ability to be better due to the fact that for at least 10yrs I was super, batsh!t crazy b*tch.
Please, take care of yourself and your son.
If I see any of the more bizarre behaviors again, I'm outta there. The big question in my mindis this: do I proactively leave NOW, or do I wait until the next explosion and take that as confirmation that this is a continuation of the pattern?
My sense of obligation makes me feel the need to stay. My sense of being tired of waiting for the other shoe to drop makes me want to leave now. I was serious about my vows when I took them. I know it could be wrgued that she broke the relationship with me first, but I feel an obligation not to give up unless that is truly the last option.
On the other hand, if she engages in a future smear campaign and gets me arrested, I could lose everything. Posted via Mobile Device
I had numerous times where I was "normal", they never lasted. My H stayed and tolerated because as he stated, he knew the "real" me was still there. The saddest thing he as ever said to me was that he would have stayed with me forever being unhappy. Is that the life you want for yourself?
I had numerous times where I was "normal", they never lasted. My H stayed and tolerated because as he stated, he knew the "real" me was still there. The saddest thing he as ever said to me was that he would have stayed with me forever being unhappy. Is that the life you want for yourself?
No it's not. But I have a lot of respect for your husband. He's a better husband than me if he's willing to endure all this To be with you. I used to think I was that committed, but that was before she attacked the very foundation of trust that I thought was inviolable. He's a better man than I am. Posted via Mobile Device
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Re: Last Off-Ramp 
