Here comes a wall of text. I recommend either a fresh cup of coffee.
I have never posted something this personal before, anywhere. I would be pretty embarrassed if my anonymity were somehow uncovered, but I really wanted some feedback from the cognescenti.
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I'm 49, a college professor and consultant. I've been married 10 years, have two kids 6 and 9.
My wife and I met in grad school: I was getting my PhD and she was becoming a doctor. We moved in together after graduation and she started practicing medicine while I began as a junior professor at a small state university. We got married and a year later she quit her job (without discussion), unhappy at the grind. We agreed it was a good time to start a family and had two boys, 2 years apart. My wife went back to school to get a Master's Degree in Public Health, hoping to change careers. She has been in part-time school for 4 years now and is supposedly finishing in another year.
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The Marriage: We don't get along. We never have really... even before we were married.
I used to be this very expressive, talky, touchy-feely guy back then. She said she liked it, but after a while she became disengaged and as a result I did too. We would fight... she would yell, sometimes throwing things. I would just talk quietly, which only seemed to make things worse. She would forbid me to tell anyone about our issues, saying "private matters stay in the family."
I stopped talking to anyone about our problems. I wouldn't talk to her because of the yelling and subsequent week of anger. And I wouldn't talk to anyone else because it was forbidden. Even now, the thought that my wife might see this note is discomforting.
Ten years later, I fully realize my marriage is a joke: we have not shared a bedroom in 6 years. All my stuff and my bed is in another corner of the house: she has the master bed/bath and closets full of clothes. I share a bathroom with my kids. I made $212,000 last year; she spends it like crazy (45 pairs of shoes, for example) and complains we don't have more. She does not work, but has a private gym membership, spends $150 on haircuts, constantly spends money on clothes and other comforts, and goes to a private dentist even though we have dental insurance (she doesn't like the in-network people). This seems excessive for someone who doesn't work.
She does not like housework: we have a cleaning service and a cooking service. She does the laundry, but refuses to do mine. She does the dishes, but complains if I don't do 50% of them.
She does not like being a mother: she tells me, "I'm a good mom for an hour a day; after that I'm done." We have had day-care, babysitters, preschool, and had a nanny for 2 years when the kids were younger, all while my wife did not work.
So you're thinking, "what does this woman like to do?" She likes Netflix. A lot of Netflix. Over 300 hours in the past 12 months. And she plays a lot of solitaire.
So you'll tell me, "why don't you talk to her about this?" Anger. Awful, seething, brutalizing vitriol. I cannot bear it... though I have borne it countless times. I decided that I signed up for this life and I would make the best of it. And I am not blameless here... I'm sure I could be a better husband. I'm sure I could try harder to see her side.
But in the end, our marriage is a perfunctory relationship in the service of raising our two children. We have partitioned our lives: I have Mon and Weds nights off, and she takes Tues/Thurs nights off, plus weekends. And I'm not complaining about this: I love the weekend time with my kids.
So now, dear reader, you have an idea, incomplete as it may be, of what family life has been like here going into this last month, where everything got much much worse.
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My wife decided to take a trip to the big city to visit old college friends for 5 days during spring break. The boys and I planned a trip to Legoland, and everyone was looking forward to the down-time.
Five days later, we picked her up at the airport on a Wednesday and she seemed very odd. All the way home, saying the strangest things. Three hours later we were in the emergency room: my wife was having a severe psychotic break, insisting god was talking to her through her cell phone and that she was meeting with the Dalai Lama. To say this was a frightening experience would be an understatement.
She spent 2 days in the psychiatric ward, then came home, far from being well. The next day she told me that she had something to confess: while away she had gone out drinking and dancing at a nightclub and ended up kissing some guy she met. On the mouth for a protracted period.
My stomach went into knots. With all we'd been through, there had never been a doubt from either of us about marital trust. I told her to stop telling me details... I couldn't bear it. And in fact, I had to take care of two kids and a very sick wife, and that had to take priority. I could not afford the anger and betrayal I was no feeling on top of everything else. This was quickly reflected in our conversation, "I'm sorry.. I was drunk" she told me. "Let's just focus on getting you better," I'd reply.
But I was pissed. I stopped touching her, stopped smiling at her, I was now just making food and administering her meds. A nurse instead of a husband. And she noticed, of course... honestly, it probably prolonged her recovery, but it was all I could muster.
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Fast forward 2 weeks. My wife is still on medication, but she's no longer standing in the doorway clucking like a chicken at me. She wants to talk about why I seem so distant. I'm reluctant to tell her this soon after her illness, but she presses on. I tell her this kissing episode was a huge shock to me; I'm angry and feeling betrayed. I feel like she has cheated on me, and it's not going away.
She downplays it. It was nothing, she says.
We argued for a while and finally I told her I wanted a physical separation followed by marriage counseling. She freaked out and started screaming... she tried to pack me a suitcase and told me to get out. I suggested she stop packing my stuff or I would call the police. My life had become a Jerry Springer show.
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The current situation: I have stuck to my guns so far. I have endured several yelling fits, and a few heart-wrenching episodes of pleading. "I will die if you leave me... don't make me live alone. I will kill myself."
I don't hate my wife. I don't want her to suffer. I want her to start living her life. She says, "I've been trying so hard this past year." And perhaps she has. But it's still been a joke, and the marital indiscretion did not help.
I went to a psychologist last week and told him all this. He said he thought we were headed for divorce. I've talked to her family about all of this, and they support me (they don't like being yelled at either). But divorce... how awful for the kids.
I've cried more this last month than in my entire life put together. And I fear it's only just begun.
Wow! I'm awfully sorry you're dealing with all of this and I'm glad you're talking to someone. Just remember that we're not experts, so take any advise with a grain of salt. First, I wouldn't get wrapped completely around the axle about her alleged marital indiscretion. After all, on this same trip, she was also talking to God on the cell phone. I'm not sure how reliable her revelations are at this point. Whatever or whomever she did, she hasn't been doing you for 6 years, and I would consider that the bigger issue. Honestly, she's threatened suicide and she's obviously not mentally well. Perhaps she can benefit from an extended stay in an appropriate facility where she can get the help she needs. You'd get the physical separation you need without the guilt and risk associated with abandoning a wife who's mentally unwell. Under no circumstances would I leave my home and kids in the care of a suicidal mental patient, so if anyone's baqs got packed, it would be her's. I would urge you to stop letting her control you. Two adult brains are in that home and one isn't working right. The defective one shouldn't be calling the shots. As she recovers, she may be able to participate more. I would closely regulate her spending. A housewife who doesn't do housework, child care, and who can't love and nurture her husband isn't a housewife. She also isn't a guest in your home. She must be a patient, then, and you are her primary caregiver.
My wife suffers from depression, bipolar disorder, etc. I get some of the same drama you deal with (thankfully, not to the extreme that you have described). I used to hear the suicidal threats all the time. I explained to her that I love her but I'm not a shrink. If she can't control her behavior or if I believe she's a danger to herself, as a loving husband, I'm taking her back to the mental hospital. She knows I'm serious. I'll deal with a wife but I'll let the professionals deal with "crazy". For what it's worth, you're a helluva good man to put up with this for so long. Just remember that life is short...too short to live in endless misery.
I don't have family members I'd wish to dump a screaming, suicidal wife with God's cell phone number on. It might make Thanksgivings and Christmas uncomfortable.
Timeforpain, you keep alluding to the tremendous damage a divorce would do to the kids. She is with them only 3 days of the week and can only give them 1 1/2 hours? Did the kids fall to pieces when she was in the hospital or when she was on vacation? They are probably being damaged more by her screaming fits, the thrown objects, and the knowledge that they could enter a room at any time and see her hanging. Divorce isn't great for kids but it doesn't sound like their present situation is a better alternative.
Just because I'm me, I wouldn't be inclined to divorce a woman with significant mental health issues. It'd be like divorcing one with cancer. I would be more inclined to separate and get her out of the house. If she can care for herself, you could get her a decent apartment and give her a reasonable support allowance. If she can't care for herself there are other options. My primary concern would be for the kids' safety and well-being.
Wow. Reading what you wrote it strikes me that your wife does not engage in her life fully, even though she has the desire, due to some kind of high standard of perfectionism.
She wanted to be a doctor, but withdrew.
She wants to be a mom, but will only go so far, when she enters the gray zone where she might not be stellar, she withdraws.
She will not do housework, maybe because when it's done there is always something that's not quite clean or organized (typical for a family home.)
She needs a lot of shoes...they always have to match, be unscuffed, be in style?
She watches a lot of movies. Movies are safe, they have scripts, they have a beginning and an end, they are safe, not like real people who can say just about anything in a conversation.
She kissed someone and had a mental breakdown.
She is afraid. Afraid of being alone, without anybody to provide structure in her life.
I think this is some kind of extreme form of OCD where the person just shortcuts all of the OCD behavior and withdraws because there are other ways to take care of the need for perfectionism, namely the affordability to her of withdrawing from even trying to get everything perfect...she gets everything perfect by proxy, and hides in a fantasy land...movies, strangers.
Where does this leave you? I'm not sure.
You might see about taking her to the best psych team you can find, and admitting her. One way you can do this is to present it to her as a medical admission, on the premise that she will have tests such as MRI, hormone tests (thyroid, serotonin, etc.) and be checked for cancer, toxicology (perhaps a reality, given that she was in a bar, someone could have dropped something in her drink), also EKG, and so forth, including complete history and eval by a psych team. If there is trust established then if she would benefit by a psych admit, they can try.
You could also join NAMI (National Alliance for the Mentally Ill), there is a group for family members and that might give you access to others who have been through something like this, and to help you navigate the legal concerns of the in between stages of finding out there is a problem and having it diagnosed and managed. Also advice about the kids and how to talk to them and how to teach them to be safe.
I had a mental health crisis, I had anaphylaxis, I found my boyfriend in a coma as he had a double brain hemorrhage, his sister was abusive to me before I learned how to avoid her, now he is being moved further away to a different rehabilitation facility and I might not see him very much if at all, have no idea as to his prognosis, dealing with extreme grief and a lot of confusion, am in therapy, and taking a low dose of a labeled antipsychotic since the allergies I have are severe, the Rx is an off-label antihistamine. Allergies could possibly cause a psychotic break, believe it or not, what happens is that the sinuses inside the skull fill with fluid and compress the brain, when that happens, all h*ll breaks loose, paranoia, auditory hallucinations, etc. However in that case there are usually (but not always) other physical symptoms of anaphylaxis. So, I'm a single mom, what did I do? I told my kids, if Mom is acting funny and you don't feel right about it, you need to call 911. I taped the prescription to my phone for easy reference, it has the facility where I receive my therapy and oversight by a neuropscyh, I also updated my student health records locally so that if I had any problems on campus, they would be aware of the situation of allergies, possible anaphylaxis (presents as mental confusion), and extreme stress and traumatic event.
I had to deal with my issues on my own. It seems that your wife is scared, but because she's being enabled what with all the income and effort on your part, she has another disability, that of not having the satisfaction of really managing her life and her issues. It's possible you might have co-dependency issues...every step along the way you acquiesced to her stated 'needs' or desires, and you are probably really really really really exhausted from all that. You may have gone too far in caring for your spouse, even when you love someone there need to be limits, if you take over normal things that someone should be doing for themselves, you contribute to their demise. Unfortunately, this is the reality of the situation. It's good to love someone, but you cannot ever end suffering in someone's life. You can soothe pain by love, but to prevent it in any way, no that is not possible. People acquire their burdens in life on the up and up and it is their path to find their way through. You can help, but you can't take over, as you see the end results now.
I would recommend therapy, it is very helpful. There needs to be a letting go of your overwhelming sense of total responsibility and personal belief that somewhere you alone hold the key to the resolution of this situation, as the sole sane adult left standing in your home. You are certainly not in any sort of control of the sitaution. The mental illness is in control. You will have to bend to it, but in bending, there isn't defeat, it's a sort of dance you have to learn to do. There is a flow, there is room for the illness to have its course, and if there is buffering on your part you can respond to how the illness manifests. But you are not going to make it go away.
Really my gut tells me your wife has extreme OCD and perfectionist tendencies taken to the limit. Where this came from, who knows. It's possible she was brought up in a home where everything was always taken care of and her parents never discussed anything that went on behind the scenes regarding how they protected their child/ren from the messy states of being that people can get themselves into. I'm sure if this was the case they meant well, however, that's a different reality than what she needs to deal with now. Having a housekeeper and a nanny isn't a bad thing, really. But you wife has a career, education, life, marriage that she's not participating in even though she has housekeeper and nanny. That's a concern. A person has to have a life and they have to be in it. No wonder she is unhinged. Has she suffered any extreme grief or pain emotional or physical, some kind of loss, anything that might have caused her to check out of her own life?
I can honestly say that to be present in one's life under a situation of extreme spiritual pain and grief (having my boyfriend who I dearly love and who loved me in return, alive but essentially gone or about to go) is very much a spiritual, emotional, and physical trial. It has taken every effort on my part, an arsenal of tools and behaviors and Rx to stay present in my life. Becoming unhinged leads nowhere but to have to take a path back to being 'hinged'. And really, becoming unhinged doesn't get rid of the pain, the pain is inescapable, I communicate it to others who can buffer it and hold it and understand it, to ease the pain... However, I am a person of exceptional strength and spiritual belief, I have faith that my pain should be experienced for what it is.
If someone is scared, as your wife might be, facing that pain is way too much. Facing the fear is way too much. Checking out is an easy solution. But it's not a long-term solution. I think you need to find a way to physically comfort her, unless she has contact with people who care, and can feel the safety net around her, she is going to stay in hiding. The longer her body and her spiritual core are not in the same place, the more difficult it is going to be to put them back together again. The key is to get her talking, asking her what she is most afraid of.
When I was at my worst, I was curled up on a stretcher in the far corner of a veteran's hospital emergency room, covered with warm blankets, I was so traumatized I could not speak, and yet I knew that unless I expressed my fear and trauma, it would continue to control me, so I did, and it was helpful. I could only whisper. I was very much scared and traumatized, and my fear had physical manifestations. After I gave a voice to it, I realized that it would not kill me, that it would hurt, hurt a lot, but that I could define it with words, and that someone would listen. Every day I go through this...slowly I have regained my life by self-care. But I don't pretend I'm not prone to pain. My psychic injury is extreme, but I'm a human, and I'll heal. I'm sharing this because I really feel that your wife has experiencd some kind of trauma, maybe quite a few years ago, that has literally scared her out of her wits/skin...she is living in a way where her spirit doesn't have to be present in her body? Where is it? It's hiding, to protect itself. What caused the fear, who knows? But it was something, and it can be identified and it can be addressed. Start with making her feel safe in the present moment, use the tone of your voice, start with stating the obvious, like I brought you a cup of hot steaming coffee, fresh brewed. Don't you love the way when you hold the cup, it warms your hands? Let's sit together and have coffee and watch the birds at the bird feeder. This sort of conversation and actions defines a safe space for people who are traumatized in any way, to be present. It will occur in small amounts of time, a couple minutes, maybe 30 seconds or whatever, but it's like coaxing a cat out from under the bed, you have to be very patient, and persistent, and consistent, you have to have no agenda other than to be with the person in the present time and place. Once they feel that, they will come out. It's human nature to want to connect, it's in our genetic makeup, so you can rely on that fact to be your ally. As her husband, you alone hold the key to intimate safe space. No doctor or therapist can fulfil that role. But like I said, you have to take care not to be co-dependent, she needs to feel in control of her own life, and to gain confidence she can handle her own issues, one moment after the next.
I'm so sorry this happened to you. I wish I had a husband who loved me who could have helped me with my issues. When your partner goes down, things are very difficult. The person you want to hold and comfort you the most while you have a good cry isn't available. In those moments, you have to provide that love for yourself. It is tough. You are caught between a rock and a hard place, you cannot walk away from the partner, but you also cannot move on. To me, this is a spiritual challenge, a journey which has been presented to you, and there is absolutely nothing to do other than to accept it. You cannot give the Universe back a gift of a growth situation once it has been delivered to you. I accept my situation as one of these gifts. If you try to avoid the reality of it, you will end up kind of like your wife, maybe different manifestations but still mind disconnected from body due to overwhelming issue in real space is not a good thing to let happen. Sure you can meditate, take yoga, pray, etc. But for the most part you have to have feet on ground and head on shoulders.
There is no shame in having "no idea what I'm doing."
You will get sympathy and compassion here on TAM regarding your situation, because as you have laid it out, it is really bad.
And if that is all you are looking for, then just swing by and give an occasional update.
The thing you probably need to do, is figure out WHAT you want to do. By the title of the thread, you don't know that yet, but it is absolutely crucial that you make that determination.
And "ya'll list out some options for me, because I'm kind of lost" is a perfectly valid path forward- nobody has all the answers to the curve balls that life throws us.
You have to have a plan. It doesn't have to be a good plan, and it can change if you need it, but you HAVE to have a plan!
How many hours a day are your children with their mother now that she has had a serious mental health break down?
You mean alone with their mother? Perhaps 2-3 hours per day.
During the height of her illness, that number was zero: I didn't go to work for 2.5 weeks because she wasn't capable of taking care of herself or them (she would insist she was, but then do weird things that made it clear she wasn't). She's now back to normal.
In fact, after I made noises about separating, she's spending more time engaging the kids than she has in years. She played a board game with them yesterday, which was GREAT to see.
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Whatever you do, do not move out of the family home. She cannot kick you out and your children need you now.
Well, I am likely going to get another place to live and we'll set up my-week her-week scheduling with the kids as soon as summer starts (I don't teach in the summers).
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Does your wife have family who would take her in so that you can take care of your children and your work?
Yes, but she will not go to them. When her illness was really really bad (last month) I begged her to go stay with family until she recovered. I couldn't take care of my work obligations, two kids, and a sick wife all by myself. But she refused. She thinks I'm just trying to get her away from us (and partly, that's correct) so she's unwilling to be away. She says, "I just went away for 5 days, and it didn't turn out very well; I don't think I want to go anywhere now."
[QUOTE=unbelievable;710280]I don't have family members I'd wish to dump a screaming, suicidal wife with God's cell phone number on. It might make Thanksgivings and Christmas uncomfortable.[QUOTE]
Her family would take her no matter what. They are amazing people. But she steadfastly insists her place is with her kids (and as I said above, lately she has been engaging the kids, which is unprecedented).
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Timeforpain, you keep alluding to the tremendous damage a divorce would do to the kids. She is with them only 3 days of the week and can only give them 1 1/2 hours? Did the kids fall to pieces when she was in the hospital or when she was on vacation?
No, the kids had a great time while she was away. But it was spring break and we were adventuring every day. But eventually they would have started to miss her. In fact, when she got back from vacation and went straight to the hospital for 3 days, they did start to miss her. But I think they were scared by her state when she returned home, still very ill.
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They are probably being damaged more by her screaming fits, the thrown objects, and the knowledge that they could enter a room at any time and see her hanging.
I think this isn't much chance she would really hurt herself. Unless the psychosis relapsed, which I guess it could. We don't even know what that was. Hopefully it's gone for good.
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Just because I'm me, I wouldn't be inclined to divorce a woman with significant mental health issues. It'd be like divorcing one with cancer. I would be more inclined to separate and get her out of the house. If she can care for herself, you could get her a decent apartment and give her a reasonable support allowance.
Believe me, I feel horribly guilty some days thinking about my desire to separate. She's mentally ill (or at least she WAS mentally ill). I've pledged my life to her. How can I dump her like this?
By the way, your suggestion above sounds like a legal separation which isn't much different from divorce.
There is no shame in having "no idea what I'm doing."
Thanks. I really am clueless here. I'm not one of those people who have spent time examining my life, reading books about relationships, or talking to my guy friends about finding happiness in my marriage. The upcoming marriage counseling will be the first time in my life talking to someone about my marriage and its problems (unless you count this forum, then the counselor will be second).
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You will get sympathy and compassion here on TAM regarding your situation, because as you have laid it out, it is really bad.
Just your saying that is helpful. Because I don't know if my marriage is typical, a little worse than normal, very broken, or what. I knew that my wife's illness was unusual because the doctor told us that. But the marriage itself... I mean, I know people sleep in different bedrooms. I know money is a source of stress. I know spouses get depressed and disengaged... etc.
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So..... what's the plan?
Lol... when I saw the psychologist last week the FIRST thing he said to me was, "So what change do you want to make in your life?"
I thought it was a good way to start a conversation.
My plan is this: I'm going to live alone for a few months. We will schedule a my-week/her-week schedule with the kids. We will start going to marriage counseling.
My goal is to save my marriage. But after the events of the last month, I'm not going back to the way things were. She's about to hear me say things I've never said to her before, and I will hear some things back most likely. It will be a long painful road, but I'm willing if she is.
I'm sure this is going to hurt a lot... part of me just wants to take the blue pill and forget all this happened.
First, I think you need to accept that your wife has ZERO respect for you. Second her private vacation was more likely a hookup with another guy for full on sex, not just kissing.
And why not, from her view she doesn't respect you as a person or a man, you are just someone who finances her lifestyle. Given your story, I suspect she has been with other men before. The clothes etc, is her attracting men. She evicted you out the bedroom, and sought out replacements.
The episode after her return is very likely triggered by whatever the person or persons she was with on vacation. Perhaps they abused her or some kind of drugs were involved? Or they used her and dumped her. The episode was her breaking down after being rejected.
Either way I think you need to get a shark of a lawyer and file for divorce and primary custody. Hire a PI to find out who she met up with on her vacation.
You've been an doormat accepting her abuse for years, and she is going to fight like hell when you stop being that to her. She wants you to find her lifestyle, but since she has no respect for you, she doesn't want you in it.
Choose to stop bring a doormat and taking her abuse. Stop letting her use you. Your a father, take steps with your lawyers help to protect you assess and to divorce her. I really do think she's been cheating for a while, find the truth on that and perhaps it will give you the shot in the arm to have the strength to save you and your children. Posted via Mobile Device
Before you try counseling , you need to realize that you can't work on a marriage that has an affair as part of it. I think she was trying to reveal to you what she has been doing, and the kiss confession was testing the waters. You blew it when you shut her down. You need to stop denying and find the truth. Posted via Mobile Device
Because I don't know if my marriage is typical, a little worse than normal, very broken, or what. I knew that my wife's illness was unusual because the doctor told us that. But the marriage itself... I mean, I know people sleep in different bedrooms. I know money is a source of stress. I know spouses get depressed and disengaged... etc.
Lol... when I saw the psychologist last week the FIRST thing he said to me was, "So what change do you want to make in your life?"
I thought it was a good way to start a conversation.
My plan is this: I'm going to live alone for a few months. We will schedule a my-week/her-week schedule with the kids. We will start going to marriage counseling.
My goal is to save my marriage. But after the events of the last month, I'm not going back to the way things were. She's about to hear me say things I've never said to her before, and I will hear some things back most likely. It will be a long painful road, but I'm willing if she is.
I'm sure this is going to hurt a lot... part of me just wants to take the blue pill and forget all this happened.
All rightey then, timeforpain. I will see your walls of text, and raise you one wall of text!
I don't know what you have your PhD in, but I expect that somewhere in your studies you have encountered the Gaussian Distribution, commonly called the Bell Curve.
"Normal" in a marriage is both people sleeping in the same bed almost every night where possible (obviously, if one spouse travels frequently for work, they can't very well sleep in the same bed). People sleeping in separate bedrooms for years is way out on one tail of the curve, at 3 standard deviations from normal. You can substitute "healthy" for "normal," if you want to.
I guess on the other end of the curve you have people who also take naps together in the same bed, or maybe buy new beds every year so they can sleep in multiple beds together or something. But I digress.
The point here is that from an outside perspective, your marriage is completely broken.
Referencing back to your initial post,
The two of you never have gotten along. You have met with a very good level of personal and professional success as a Professor and a consultant, and she has given up on everything she has ever tried to do, except emasculate you as a man and husband.
I hate to be brutally honest here, but it seems she has been very successful in this latter endeavor.
By virtue of the fact that you are here posting, and starting to get some counseling, I can thankfully say that she has not been completely successful. And I think you are also starting on a road to being an all around better person, which she won't like one bit.
So your plan is to separate for a few months, share the kids, and attend marriage counseling. This is not a bad plan. I would like to suggest that you consider the following additions to your plan.
1) You're a Professor. You're highly edumacated. SEEK THE TRUTH ABOUT WHAT IS GOING ON. No blue pill for you! I think there has been a lot of stuff going on in your wife's life that will horrify you.
2) Also consider some individual counseling. You've been abused for years, and you don't fully realize that yet. Being screamed at and having stuff thrown at you during arguments will do that to a person. Despite your successes in life, you have some self esteem problems now that you almost definitely don't have a good handle on.
Your goal is to save your marriage, while making it much healthier than it has been, and you expect some rough times getting there.
This is a noble and worthy plan, and you also need a few caveats attached to it.
1) Once again about the truth- once you find out the truth, be prepared to change your goals.
2) Achieving a healthier marriage will work better if you identify specific things to change, such as establishing ground rules during arguments like "no yelling, no throwing things," and "sex every so often."
3) As long as you are going to therapy, in addition to working on self esteem, also learn how to set and enforce personal boundaries in the relationship.
So. I usually keep my replies directed to the OP and don't say anything about what other commenters have posted, but this is one of those exceptions.
Shaggy is like that little kid in the 6th Sense- he sees affairs everywhere. Unfortunately for the people he comments to, he is rarely hallucinating, and I don't think he is off base here, either. In fact, I agree with every single thing he has said in his two posts here.
You are in a totally unhealthy marriage. You haven't slept in the same bed as your wife in 6 years, and I doubt there has been much, if any, sexual contact.
Sex (and lack thereof) is easy to focus on, but the truth of the matter is that everything else about your marriage is completely unbalanced and toxic as well.
You bust your tail working, making a pretty good living for your family. What does your wife do?
She doesn't give good care to your (and HER) children. She's not a good Mom.
She doesn't work, so she brings no money to the family.
She doesn't keep your house clean.
She doesn't make you feel loved and respected.
She doesn't give you sex (told you sex was easy).
While these aren't necessarily listed in order of importance, they are all really important things that a spouse can do to bring value to a marriage. If the spouse in question (your wife) isn't bringing ANY of these things to the marriage, the question then becomes,
"Well, what the f^ck IS she bringing to the marriage?"
And THAT, my friend, is the terrible question that you have to find the answer to.
"She's the mother of my CHILDREN, you jackass!" is not a good answer. If it's good enough for you, go directly back to abuse, do not pass GO, do not collect $200.
"Well, she's my wife, she likes me enough that she married me, and I owe it to her to blah blah blah, you jackass!" sounds pretty good, but a marriage license is not supposed to be a license to give up on doing anything good in life, abusing your loyal spouse, and chasing other sex partners.
Hard. Tangible. Benefits. What does she bring to the marriage?
If, after you have the answer to that question, and you know the TRUTH about the other men she has had sex with (because I'll bet lots of money that she has cheated on you multiple times) you still want to be married to her, then the easiest way to make things better is really going to mess with your head.
Be prepared to divorce her.
You've spent 10 years training her. In order to get what she wants, she has to make you miserable. That's the operating principle in your marriage. A side effect of this that Shaggy alludes to is that she has zero respect for you. So when you say,
"don't yell at me, and don't throw that vase at me either,"
she'll only hesitate long enough to draw a breath and swing that vase a little farther back before she swings it forward. And why not? You've let her do it for years. Why should now be any different?
The only, literally ONLY leverage you have with her is being prepared to divorce her. Divorce threatens her self image and her cash flow, and these are big threats, that you might be able to use to exact meaningful change in the marriage.
I'm not qualified at all to discuss OCD or other mental disorders, so I won't. But for what its worth, I don't think your wife is insane.
I think she just doesn't have any respect for you, is lazy, and likes having sex with other men while you bust your ass supporting her in the lifestyle to which she has become accustomed.
Whether or not you keep doing all the heavy work in your marriage and letting your wife have a completely free ride is up to you.
Looking at it from the outside again, it seems like you're a heck of a good guy to be settling for the abuse and neglect from your wife that you are accepting. I hope you decide to do whatever it takes to get more return on your efforts in life.
"Normal" in a marriage is both people sleeping in the same bed almost every night where possible (obviously, if one spouse travels frequently for work, they can't very well sleep in the same bed). People sleeping in separate bedrooms for years is way out on one tail of the curve, at 3 standard deviations from normal.
Ok, thanks for that. I had heard (anecdotally) that there are married couples who don't share a bedroom but still have healthy marriages. My wife's reason for suggesting we sleep in separate rooms is that I snore. I tried a bunch of things to reduce the snoring, but it persists and she's a light sleeper.
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Professor and a consultant, and she has given up on everything she has ever tried to do, except emasculate you as a man and husband.
She does have a hard time congratulating me when I enjoy professional successes. It's not that she's a mean person; it's just that my successes remind her of how much she's NOT achieving in comparison. It's a humiliation for her to be 41 and still in school, searching for what to do with her life. And to some extent, she's given up (ergo all the time-wasting and self-pity to fill her days). I still love her, but I've lost a ton of respect for her and I'm sure she knows it.
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I hate to be brutally honest here, but it seems she has been very successful in this latter endeavor.
Well, I don't feel emasculated. I definitely feel disempowered as a putative equal in this marriage... that I've been from the outset. My distaste for conflict and abuse means I've become more passive than I used to be, and that's had a cost. But outside the marriage I'm still the same person.
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And I think you are also starting on a road to being an all around better person, which she won't like one bit.
Well, I'm committed to stop avoiding conflict and stop pulling punches all the time. Once we're separated I can feel like I can speak honestly without the requisite 2 weeks of anger to endure, since I will live under a separate roof. I just hope she doesn't start taking it out on the kids...
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1) You're a Professor. You're highly edumacated. SEEK THE TRUTH ABOUT WHAT IS GOING ON. No blue pill for you! I think there has been a lot of stuff going on in your wife's life that will horrify you.
Honestly, I doubt there's much beyond what I know already. What I've posted here is really a (necessarily) tiny fraction of a tortured and complex experience.
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2) Also consider some individual counseling. You've been abused for years, and you don't fully realize that yet. Being screamed at and having stuff thrown at you during arguments will do that to a person. Despite your successes in life, you have some self esteem problems now that you almost definitely don't have a good handle on.
I don't feel abused. I'm the good guy in this marriage (my wife acknowledges this as well). I've been extremely patient; I've spent so much time with my kids; I do a huge amount of housework. I look in the mirror and feel pretty good about myself. I can be a jerk sometimes, and occasionally I do something selfish, but mostly I like who I am. So my self-esteem is pretty much intact.
My marriage, however, could be a lot better.
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2) Achieving a healthier marriage will work better if you identify specific things to change, such as establishing ground rules during arguments like "no yelling, no throwing things," and "sex every so often."
I've given her the "no yelling" ultimatum before. It doesn't stick. And we do have sex... about once every month or two. Or at least we USED to have sex before this liaison she had on her vacation. Now I don't want anything to do with her. Getting past my anger on this is going to be a lot of work, if it's possible at all. I have no idea if my feeling is common or not.
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Shaggy is like that little kid in the 6th Sense- he sees affairs everywhere. Unfortunately for the people he comments to, he is rarely hallucinating, and I don't think he is off base here, either. In fact, I agree with every single thing he has said in his two posts here.
I highly doubt my wife has done more than what she's confessed to me. For one thing, she never leaves the house. I mean, never. This is in fact a root cause of her depression, in my opinion.
Now, if my wife WANTED a random hook-up, it wouldn't be hard for her. She is absolutely gorgeous. But she has a serious fear of STDs so I think that would trump any temptation she might have.
In any case, her make-out session with Joe Random was enough for me to feel cheated on. I don't imagine that a sexual indiscretion would feel much more painful than this.
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You bust your tail working, making a pretty good living for your family. What does your wife do?
If my wife were posting here, instead of me, it would go something like this: (1) I am working my tail off in school, trying to finish my degree. (2) I am struggling with depression, trying to recover in order to become a better wife and mother. (3) My husband does not support me in my struggles; he's distant and reserved when I need comfort and reassurance. (4) I've been trying so hard to pull myself together; this is a temporary situation; I just need some time.
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"Well, what the f^ck IS she bringing to the marriage?"
She does a few things really well. Number one is that when we travel as a family, she's an amazing planner and packer. I've done it without her, and I'm no where near as good. She also keeps the family calendar; school events, dentist, doctors, etc. We share the burden of getting kids to appointments, but she does all the scheduling. And, as I said above, we do have sex. Or at least we did.
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Be prepared to divorce her.
That may be the end result. It entails a very long list of drawbacks. Her family has essentially adopted me (my family is beyond dysfunctional), and they are wonderful people. My kids would be destroyed. We'd lose a lot of friends. But I know it's a possible outcome here.
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The only, literally ONLY leverage you have with her is being prepared to divorce her. Divorce threatens her self image and her cash flow, and these are big threats, that you might be able to use to exact meaningful change in the marriage.
I don't know what I'm doing (see subject line) nor what I'm talking about. But I seriously doubt divorce threatens her cash-flow. She would get over half a million dollars in a 50-50 split, and she would get alimony. This, I fear, would enable her to continue to do nothing, which is precisely what I want to stop her from doing.
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I'm not qualified at all to discuss OCD or other mental disorders, so I won't. But for what its worth, I don't think your wife is insane.
She's not insane. She's confused, depressed, has lost the balance of her self-respect and ego. And yes, she's selfish and lazy and good at justifying her behavior to herself. Deep down, she knows this.. but the realization just adds to the depression.
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Thanks for the reply, NotLikeYou. You made some points that have me thinking about things I hadn't considered. And I'm sure you have better things to do on a Sunday afternoon than listening to random people dumping. So a sincere thanks for that.
One of the major characteristics of people in abusive situations is that don't recognize they are being abused. You are.
You say you gave her an "ultimatum" which she tried then ignored. What kind of ultimatum doesn't have follow though? Answer : empty threat.
This s part of why she doesn't respect you. You don't stand firm or up to her. You don't call her on her abusive bullying actions, etc.
Heck the woman did cheat on you the moment she lip locked with another guy. I still think it was more, but even kissing is cheating. And you are still qualifying that you feel cheated on, dude, you were cheated on.
You avoid conflict, at almost all costs it seems.
There is a book, No More Mr.Nice Guy, read it, learn from it.
It will take a lot of personal growth to fix you. You have accepted the abuse for so long that it seems normal. It isn't. It's wrong and you and he kids need to escape it. Posted via Mobile Device
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No idea what I'm doing... 
