cosmicblu

Havent been here in a while, after the last incident of my husband being violent and I called the police-2 months ago- I still sat in court advocating for him to get help rather than thrown in jail because he is a verry hard worker great father yadda yadda.. doing backstory at this point would be a novel. But Ive tried and tried to play the balancing act between hes one that therapy/meds could help, just gotta get him there, & and oh well its time to go. So this is the big decision point. Hes been in therapy from the week the last incident happened as well as meds.

There was a time last year I was talking to an old friend I grew up with, was never anything in a wrong way but I talked to him lil over a month, best I can describe since it wasnt sexual, it was some sort of escape from my own effed up life. Im out of state from where i grew up and no family here with me and considering the years ive dealt with this angry man, well the time this happened i was verry depressed hitting rock bottom but not even showing it on the outside, mostly for our children. He found out got way pissed. I didnt stop talking rt away, but few wks later when I did I told my husband I had continued that little bit of time longer. We talked it out worked through it, its been long since dead.

That was last year, fast forward to this last incident where he choked me (which is now a felony so hes facing prison). He decided to open up old phone records even though like I said this has been loooong since worked out. Nothing was different on the bill than what I told him but still he was like woww i mean seeing it for myself. But on like why are you dredging old things up that have been worked out? SO later last night of course it got ugly at one point he said 'you wouldnt have gotten hit half the time if youd just kept your damn mouth shut' and 'you dont get beat all the time' like minimizing all of it?? and one of the biggest reasons I decided hes worth the help and it has a chance of working was that he realized through his temper over the years even before physical throwing breaking things yelling-a lot, the whole walking on eggshells thing for 12 years, what its really done to us, really holding himself accountable for it so he can grasp it and actually change it. If he doesnt really grasp it, the help isnt gonna work. So he minimized all of those things again too. And dredging up old dead stuff just to let it get his mind turning again, this is all a bad sign isnt it?? I dont think hes going to change. I think he'll hold on to these things and even if it takes a few years itll come up again. Am I right in what Im feeling about all of this now??

CallaLily

there is such a thing called "false hope" and I think thats what you're hanging on to. I do believe people can change if they want to, and I do believe in having hope for things to change. BUT, sometimes you have to take a step back and call it for what it is.

This is not something that has been going on for a few months, but for years. Nothing you have been doing is working so there for you need to do something different, and that is to move on! You're involved with a violent man, an abuser! Plain and simple.

The best thing for you do is no longer be around him. You can NOT change him or fix him no matter how much you might want to. You can take care of you and your kids though. You need to do whatever you can to make that happen.

I think too, once you truly understand how important your self worth is you will then move on. You are above and beyond this kind of treatment, and deserve better. Get some help ASAP, and get away from him.

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reggis

He tells you that you wouldn't get beat up so much if you knew when to keep your mouth shut, he's choked you and been violent on many occasions and you are advocating to keep him out of jail and you want to be with him because he's a hard worker and a good father?

Really?

cosmicblu

hes been in therapy and these things were just said last night. Please dont judge, it tears me up constantly every day and playing the balancing act between good and evil for many years. Yes Ive given him more chances than I ever should have. and this was the last one, so keeping a constant eye out for signs that its not going to work. Just looking for encouraging words for my support because I have 3 children at home and no job and no family in the state. Its been a long hard road, Ive just finished my internship this past Monday and just got back a few minutes ago from officially putting in an app. to stay there. Was gonna wait til after the summer bc care for all 3 of my children id basically not have a check left but any leg up is better than nothing right? Just have to wait for boss to get back & hear from her. So ive already taken my first steps. The only thing a person in this situation is looking for is strength, not to feel stupid, I feel that enough already. Just looking for encouragement to back up the strength ive mustered up at this moment to keep moving in this direction. He was doing great in therapy so far, this melt down yesterday was out of nowhere and has left me with an ever empty heart bc I see now that he prob isnt one of the ones that will be able to change. I was so hoping...

reggis

It sounds like you know what you have to do.

Everything will be ok.

lamaga

Cosmicblu, you were hoping and hoping because you are clearly a kindhearted person. Keep in mind as you go forward that that is a strength, and not one to be disparaged.

But it's time to be kind to yourself. I'm glad that you are going forward. Good luck, and do let us know how you are.

~TheOptimist~

If you feel like you've given it your all, and you think your husband is not going to change then he probably won't. I'm saying this out of my own experience.
My husband (soon-to-be ex-husband) has many issues, one being uncontrollable anger. It just got worse and worse. I thought it was something I could handle/live with. I believed for the longest time that he would get better or at least try to get better. Towards the end of our marriage, there were a few times I had left for 2-3 days and then came back to him, believing what he was saying, but we would eventually fall into the same routine, and there was no change happening. I loved him so much, and I wanted to make it work so bad. About a week ago, he did some things that I just knew I could no longer live with. I left and ended up deciding (and telling him) that I would not come back this time until he showed me proof that he was trying to change (like go to counseling, etc.) He did not like that I would not come home until this happened. He wanted me to come home because "he could not go on without me", and then he would change everything. I stuck to my guns because I knew that, even though he loved me and most likely thought he would change, I knew this wouldn't be the case. And I believe someone who wanted to try to change their anger problems would not start by trying to manipulate me into coming home, try to make me feel guilty, and throw a big fit.
If your husband is opening up old phone records and trying to create drama when there isn't any, then he obviously does not want to make things better. My husband would do this type of thing, too. He'll do the wrong action or get uncontrollable angry, etc. THEN say oh, I know I shouldn't have done that, I don't want to do that anymore, I'll change. Well, saying you'll change is just the first step. (And also means they are saying this because they are scared you'll leave.) If they can't get past that first step, then they won't get anywhere.
I know it is incredibly hard to even think about leaving your husband, no matter what he has done to you, if you still love him. I am still in that process. I feel feel bad and feel like I failed. But I believe, in the long run, this is better for the both of us.
Just really think how you want to live the rest of your life. No one deserves to be hit or manipulated. No matter what.

Uptown

Cosmic, welcome back to the TAM forum after your two-month break! I'm so sorry to hear you are still in so much pain trying to deal with your fifth child, i.e., your husband.Yes, I'm afraid you are right. The prospects for him getting better would not be so bleak if -- as you suspected last October -- he has bipolar disorder. If that were true, he likely could manage the mood changes by simply swallowing a pill. On the other hand, if he has strong traits of BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder), the chances of a substantial improvement are very slim. I say this based on my 15 years of experience with my BPDer exW, whom I took to six different psychologists in hopes of helping her.

I mention BPD traits because the behaviors you describe -- verbal and physical abuse, temper tantrums, inability to trust you, suicide attempt, controlling behavior, lack of impulse control, black-white thinking, always being "The Victim," and self loathing -- are classic traits of BPD. Of course, only a professional can determine whether those traits are so severe as to satisfy all of the diagnostic criteria for having full blown BPD.

Yet, for the purposes of deciding whether to remain married to your H, you don't need to know whether his traits meet the diagnostic threshold. Even when those traits fall well short of that threshold, they can make your life miserable, harm your children, and destroy a marriage. Moreover, strong BPD traits are easy to identify when occurring in a man you've known for over ten years. There is nothing subtle or nuanced about behavior such as verbal abuse, irrational jealousy, and being punched in the face five times on one occasion alone.This is why the #1 best-selling BPD book (targeted to abused spouses) is called Stop Walking on Eggshells.Cosmic, I am not a psychologist. Moreover, I don't know for certain that your H is a BPDer (i.e.,whether he has most BPD traits at a strong level). I am confident, however, that you will easily spot the red flags (i.e., strong occurrences of BPD traits) if you take a little time to read about them. I therefore suggest you read my brief description of such traits in Maybe's thread at My list of hell!.

If that description rings a bell, I would be happy to discuss it with you and point you to online resources, e.g., a message board at BPDfamily.com that is devoted to spouses and ex-spouses who are raising a child with one parent who has BPD. Take care, Cosmic.

I'mInLoveWithMyHubby

If you decide to leave, you should be much more happier and less stressed once your out of this situation. Like a massive weight lifted off your shoulders.

My ex h is abusive. He held me hostage in my home, almost killed my daughter and I during a rage, left me along side the road in the pouring rain at night in the city when 8.5 months pregnant in my car "teaching me a lesson" and many more disturbing things I will not mention. This happened during a two year span. 2 years of pure hell. I can not fathomed what you went through. I was always told I was worthless. I'd be crying while he took pictures of me laughing. He was and is cruel. Everything was my fault and still is 18-19 years later. He has untreated bipolar disorder.

I left, his gf moved in 3 days. He was unfaithful and that is why I got the courage to leave. I'm glad I made the decision to leave. I did have help get back on my feet through my parents. I was a young single mother. All these years have passed and his behavior has worsened by the ten fold. I thank God everyday I left when I did. I can not imagine living year after year in that way. He hates my daughter as well and has nothing to do with her. This is my fault as well. My daughter turned out to be a very well behaved young lady/woman.

Please leave if you can. Your children will be happier too. I have never seen such anger come out of a human being before like my ex. His wife puts up with it and I have no idea how. She too, blames me for his misery or she use to.

I do wish you the best!

cosmicblu

so, after the weekend and a little more talking.. he brought up this whole old phone deal honestly bc he was jealous, I was camping last wkend with my daughter and her girl scout troop where there is a father that is also a co-leader along with me and a few others. Husband does not like him, guy never has said anything out of the way to me but husband doesnt trust him. Whatever, so this wkend his jealousy sparked and thats what got him thinking about the old stuff. BUT now he says hes seen it for himself and sees its nothing more than what I already told him so now he can put it to rest and move on.... But why couldnt he get a grip on it and control that feeling to begin with then?? We talked some about how all this has made me feel less hopeful, he got all super scared like I was gonna tell him rt there it was over. I didnt, just left it at that and I was numb all over again for it. Still processing all of this before I bring it back up to him.

I know a big part of my problem, figuring out how NOT to still be the care taker, worrying that he really doesnt have anywhere to go once I tell him to leave, I know the kids will adapt, they already started to when he was gone for those 2 weeks for the past incident. But the care and love for him, despite how I feel, is really keeping me at the edge of this cliff holding my breath frozen, and this unknown, also havent heard back from the job I put in for thurs. Kind of stalling to see what happens there too. HOW do I get rid of these feelings, get past them so I can really do this??

--also, the second nite all this went down all heated, he took son out to see a movie he had promised, had to return a redbox movie while they were out, the curser was apparently acting dumb and he was still all mad from this stuff and broke the screen..... yea thats suppose to make me feel soooo much better....

I do agree Uptown... he scores high at least on characteristics of BPD, Im really curious what his therapist thinks as well...

cosmicblu

Ok some days later since my last post. Ive really worked out a lot of little things in my head Ive posted about before. I can let him go fine, getting past oh he doesnt have anywhere to go, the only thing left there is.. that might lead him to be HERE with me for some extended period of time until he can figure that part out... well there is his brother, but him and his girl fight like cats & dogs and people dont even visit because its uncomfortable. Give him a cpl weeks or something and then tell him he'll have to suck it up & go there if he has to??

Im worried how it will be here with us in this small house stuck around eachother once this talk is done. Im terrified of this talk, always not liking confrontation but obviously now after the yrs dealing with him I realllly dont like confrontation. Just waiting for the day I wake up brave enough. And believe me its at the tip of my tongue. Every day since this last jealous episode im a lot stiffer towards him, only giving him minimal I love yous back and sitting farther away from him on the couch at nite because honestly I cant stomach to be close to him right now. But the stiffer I am the more he lays it on me. Hes obviously afraid, but the more he tries the further it pushes me and its honestly speeding this whole thing up for me. but geeeezz how do I start it??? We've had talks like it before when Ive almost left him but it was either after some argument or a calm time where hes like 'this is out of nowhere!' 'who is it??' like he really cant come to terms with the fact that its JUST HIM who is the problem!

Uptown

No, Cosmic, it takes TWO willing people to sustain a toxic relationship for more than a year -- much less for 12 years. The toxicity is not something HE is doing to you. Rather, it is something you BOTH are doing to each other. Of course, HIS contribution -- the physical and verbal abuse -- is easy to see.

Your contribution is harder to see because, as an excessive caregiver (i.e., a "codependent"), you always feel you are "only trying to help." I did the same thing, with the only difference being that I "only tried to help" for 15 years instead of 12. Indeed, I spent a small fortune taking my exW to weekly visits with six different psychologists. For excessive caregivers like us, our desire to be needed (for what we can do) far exceeds our desire to be loved (for the people we already are).

The result is that you have allowed your H to throw temper tantrums for 12 years -- behaving like a four year old and GETTING AWAY WITH IT. Significantly, if he has strong BPD traits, he has the emotional development of a four year old. (And it sounds like his brother may as well.) If he has any chance at all of growing up -- i.e., confronting his issues and learning to manage them -- he must be allowed to suffer the logical consequences of his own bad behavior. Hence, as long as you continue to shelter him from those logical consequences, you are harming him by destroying his best opportunity to confront his own issues.

cosmicblu

I called the DA yesterday, as well did a great friend of mine, I didnt know she was going to also! But hes in the middle of a huge case and wont be in the office hardly at all the rest of the week but I got to his voice mail and gave him at least a quick run down of more recent events including the rediculous jealous flares and breaking the redbox kiosk because of it- which now we have to pay 600 to redbox to fix, but i told him there is a report of it so the paperwork is there for him to find. Realizing that otherwise he would just see that hes been going to therapy like a good boy. And to call me the rest of this week if he gets a chance at all but otherwise I would see him next tues which is the court date- the 29th. Friend had also left pretty much the same msg for him. So I know ill at least get to talk to him and give the rest of the details that morning. I mean especially with a court date looming over his head hed be acting like the golden child or something but frick if he cant even do that then forget it. Forget it either way, if he doesnt go to jail im still through, and full ready to make that move if prison doesnt happen.

Hes facing next tues, mandatory 3 years just for the strangulation felony, plus theres misd. assult on female on that same charge. Then they see the prior from when i called on him a year ago, also the report from the RO I put out on him when all this first happened where I also listed EVERY other violent thing that has happened that I didnt call on. PLUS theres about 4 things on his record of the same nature on his record from his past that they can see. PLEASE let justice prevail.... Doing it my own way either this very day or after court date if hes not locked up with nowhere for him to go really im not sure how long itll take him to really get out of the house and that really scares me. So fingers crossed everyone please for the 29th, the DA wanted to lock him up then, especially with kids involved he was more than passionate towards me especially concerning the kids in the house. Prayer please I really need them right now! And thank you everyone here for your kind words strength and support you have shown to me over this long and hellish road, I really really do appreciate every ounce of it.

Cosmos

Your husband is an abuser. Even with therapy abusers rarely change. The only way to deal with one is to leave, make sure he sticks to the restraining order and go no contact.

I hope I'm not coming across as insensitive, because I have great empathy for anyone who's suffered domestic violence. I've been there, and can tell you that there's a wonderful world out there, but only if we cut these dangerously toxic people out of our lives.

__________________

For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love.
(Carl Sagan)

cosmicblu

No your not at all Cosmos! these are really things Ive known for a long time but have felt so stuck and scared and disappointed in myself that its really taken me THIS long to finally come to this point. But I do feel stronger than I ever have at this moment so still terribly scared, but hopeful. I just hope the DA has just as much passion for me with the case as he did a month and a half ago. He really wanted to lock him up that day. Boy I really should have let him.....