The counselor doesn't need to tell you you're supposed to want to stay married--but in my view they should operate from that premise or why bother with counseling?
Although maybe all he was doing was taking the temperature of each spouse so that he knew where they were coming from.
But to me he sounds like a waiter taking an order.
If I were a spouse who wanted reconciliation, no way would I stay with someone who didn't take marriage seriously enough to at least frame this question in a more sensitive way. A bad marriage
counselor can undo the work of a thousand good ones.
I like the way the counselor approached her.... Put her right on the spot. He did agree that something didn't add up - that she could say we were just friends that got married. He said friends don't do the kind of things we did, people that are in love do. We needed to find out why she changed. I commend all of you on looking into the OM theory. Sometimes it is tough to see when you have blinders on.
@Lon- She did purchase some 4" fire engine red heals and wore them out the other weekend. I thought that was weird.
She also told me that the # I had noticed her talking to for about 45 min a day she stopped calling b/c she didn't want me to think anything. She said he works at a different store and understands her when she talks about work. She talked to him a bunch b/c I think her job is a joke. I think this may have been the EA that caused her to reevaluate things. Posted via Mobile Device
I like the way the counselor approached her.... Put her right on the spot. He did agree that something didn't add up - that she could say we were just friends that got married. He said friends don't do the kind of things we did, people that are in love do. We needed to find out why she changed. I commend all of you on looking into the OM theory. Sometimes it is tough to see when you have blinders on.
@Lon- She did purchase some 4" fire engine red heals and wore them out the other weekend. I thought that was weird.
She also told me that the # I had noticed her talking to for about 45 min a day she stopped calling b/c she didn't want me to think anything. She said he works at a different store and understands her when she talks about work. She talked to him a bunch b/c I think her job is a joke. I think this may have been the EA that caused her to reevaluate things. Posted via Mobile Device
EA? You mentioned she had an urge to go out more so you might want to prepare yourself for a PA.
If she stopped calling that number then she has a burner phone on the side.
@Lon- She did purchase some 4" fire engine red heals and wore them out the other weekend. I thought that was weird.
She also told me that the # I had noticed her talking to for about 45 min a day she stopped calling b/c she didn't want me to think anything. She said he works at a different store and understands her when she talks about work. She talked to him a bunch b/c I think her job is a joke. I think this may have been the EA that caused her to reevaluate things. Posted via Mobile Device
So she has basically admitted that there IS an om, but so far has completely minimized whatever it is she wants you to think of him. If she is going out wearing 4" red fck me shoes without you, it is physical, not just EA, and she has taken this underground since you started questioning. The reason she wants separation is so she can pursue this more.
You are getting fed the trickle truth, whatever evidence you confront her with she will attempt to mitigate and keep the full extent hidden, she possibly is even justifiying this in her mind by convincing herself she is saving you extra hurt.
Stop everything, investigate, do the VAR and even consider hiring a PI to get any unarguable evidence of the PA you can, then expose it to your W's family and friends and find out if the OM is married or has a gf, expose this to his side as well. Your job right now is to make your W's affair as difficult to carry out as you can. It is not about you at this moment, so do not try to be a nice guy or win her approval, the more p!ssed off you make her right now the more successful you are being in protecting your marriage.
Mr. T, then I'm glad the counselor is helping you. I'm very relieved to hear that if it is your opinion.
Here is what those of us worried about an affair are concerned about:
YOU CANNOT FIX A MARRIAGE WITH 3 PEOPLE IN IT!!
Picture her sitting on the counselor's couch next to you with the marriage counselor before you. Now picture her holding hands with someone who is standing just outside the room. Do you honestly think that someone in that situation is going to do the hard work that counseling requires? Is she going to bare her soul? She might be honest about wanting a divorce, but as your counselor astutely noticed, she isn't being forthcoming about WHY.
I went to MC for 6+ months while my husband was secretly in an EA. I cannot tell you what a WASTE of money and time that was.
Now that his affair is out in the open and contact with the woman has ended, we are getting so much out of marriage counseling (we are also using someone TRAINED in dealing with infidelity).
She is going through a difficult time because it is likely she isn't feeling fulfilled in the relationship so she is looking into the past to discover where she went wrong or rather where you went wrong in her point of view. She was attracted and fell in love with you at one point and time so think back to when things were fun and exciting and start to give her the attention she needs as well as getting into the frame of mind that you had in the beginning of the relationship. You have survived this long in the relationship so focus on the things you can change and do your best to show how much she means to you by making positive change with yourself and letting her know how much you appreciate her.
Mr. T, then I'm glad the counselor is helping you. I'm very relieved to hear that if it is your opinion.
Here is what those of us worried about an affair are concerned about:
YOU CANNOT FIX A MARRIAGE WITH 3 PEOPLE IN IT!!
Picture her sitting on the counselor's couch next to you with the marriage counselor before you. Now picture her holding hands with someone who is standing just outside the room. Do you honestly think that someone in that situation is going to do the hard work that counseling requires? Is she going to bare her soul? She might be honest about wanting a divorce, but as your counselor astutely noticed, she isn't being forthcoming about WHY.
I went to MC for 6+ months while my husband was secretly in an EA. I cannot tell you what a WASTE of money and time that was.
Now that his affair is out in the open and contact with the woman has ended, we are getting so much out of marriage counseling (we are also using someone TRAINED in dealing with infidelity).
This is what I wish for you.
She is not going back to the counselor with me. She said she went so I would go...and to help me understand why she feels that way.
When the counselor was talking to me by myself he said that for her to say we were never in love is wrong. She may have fallen out of love but she needs to tell me why it happened.
She swears there is no one else, just that her feelings changed. Myself and the counselor seem to think otherwise. Especially
Since she was talking to the other 'manager' so much. She finally admitted to me that it was b/c 'he understands their work and I don't listen to her about work and think her job is stupid.
As far as I can tell she only wore the fck me red heels out with her gf's. Who knows if that is true or not.
I think it's easier to think your spouse is cheating, but what if her feelings just changed?
I know it's a bs excuse.
Thanks to you folks for continuing to listen and offer advice. Posted via Mobile Device
Mr.T its uncanny reading your thread, and I'm still sorta triggering reading you story because your W is giving you the exact same words mine was. My ex was 30 at the time, was going out with her girls, said she doesn't remember ever being in love, maybe at the beginning, was willing to go to counselling simply to see where it went off track and to help me understand and heal (very condescending and also certain in her decision). I don't know if it was MLC or not, for me it wasn't "easier" to think it could be cheating, I couldn't even wrap my head around it, there was no way I thought it was possible, until I really decided to dig AND LET MY MIND PROCESS WHAT MY EYES WERE ACTUALLY SEEING and then I realized it WAS THE CHEATING THAT WAS MAKING ALL THIS POSSIBLE, THE FOG IS WHAT HELPS CONVINCE THEM TO CHECK OUT. And of course, it hurt real bad to see the evidence when I finally decided to look for it and found it - but atleast it did start to make sense, even as foolish as I felt, and as much of a failure. Now looking back I could not imagine how I could have processed this separation divorce if I hadn't have seen the evidence and came to this site and learn about "the fog" and how a cheating spouse can behave, so apparently out of character.
She swears there is no one else, just that her feelings changed. Myself and the counselor seem to think otherwise. Especially
Since she was talking to the other 'manager' so much. She finally admitted to me that it was b/c 'he understands their work and I don't listen to her about work and think her job is stupid
Do you think her job is stupid (I'm pretty sure the answer is no) but is there any truth to her saying these things--or is she re-writing marital history here?
Do you think her job is stupid (I'm pretty sure the answer is no) but is there any truth to her saying these things--or is she re-writing marital history here?
Of course I don't think her job is stupid. There seems to be a good amount of history revision going on.
Also telling me things from a few years ago that 'bothered her' - it is was the first I heard of it. Posted via Mobile Device
Of course I don't think her job is stupid. There seems to be a good amount of history revision going on.
Also telling me things from a few years ago that 'bothered her' - it is was the first I heard of it. Posted via Mobile Device
Re-writing marital history is another red flag. While of course it's possible that you saw things one way and she another, that she expressed her needs loud and clear but you didn't hear them or you ignored them, again, a relationship outside the marriage is often heralded by these sorts of out-of-the-blue ideas.
What I saw in my own husband for example (and this is common) was a lot of picking fights and irritability. Sometimes I thought I had serious communication problems, because he would escalate minor disagreements so easily. Turns out he was in an emotional affair. Since he recommitted all that stuff just disappeared.
So she is saying her manager 'gets her.' Do you have any idea how often they communicate? Does any of this happen via texting? Do they talk outside office hours?
Re-writing marital history is another red flag. While of course it's possible that you saw things one way and she another, that she expressed her needs loud and clear but you didn't hear them or you ignored them, again, a relationship outside the marriage is often heralded by these sorts of out-of-the-blue ideas.
What I saw in my own husband for example (and this is common) was a lot of picking fights and irritability. Sometimes I thought I had serious communication problems, because he would escalate minor disagreements so easily. Turns out he was in an emotional affair. Since he recommitted all that stuff just disappeared.
So she is saying her manager 'gets her.' Do you have any idea how often they communicate? Does any of this happen via texting? Do they talk outside office hours?
There was a 3 month time frame where she would average about an hour a day talking to that #. I asked her about it and since then it shows up once a week or so for like 15 minutes. Most calls we're when she was on her way to and from work. Posted via Mobile Device
There was a 3 month time frame where she would average about an hour a day talking to that #. I asked her about it and since then it shows up once a week or so for like 15 minutes. Most calls we're when she was on her way to and from work. Posted via Mobile Device
60 minutes a day (assuming Monday though Friday). That's 5 HOURS a week, 20 HOURS a month. To and from work. I'll bet you'd like an extra hour of her undivided attention each day--no?
Sounds exactly like my FWH, except he only had 15 minute phone calls with his AP to and from work. So HALF of the amount of time that she is spending on that #.
If he is the person she's emotionally connected to, they are communicating some other way you can't detect just yet, likely texting. Texting is huge in affairs because you can do it no matter where you are, even sitting right next to you. Does she text a lot? Have you set up an ONLINE account for the cell phone to see the number of texts (and date / time / location and dialed #) for this month?
60 minutes a day (assuming Monday though Friday). That's 5 HOURS a week, 20 HOURS a month. To and from work. I'll bet you'd like an extra hour of her undivided attention each day--no?
Sounds exactly like my FWH, except he only had 15 minute phone calls with his AP to and from work. So HALF of the amount of time that she is spending on that #.
If he is the person she's emotionally connected to, they are communicating some other way you can't detect just yet, likely texting. Texting is huge in affairs because you can do it no matter where you are, even sitting right next to you. Does she text a lot? Have you set up an ONLINE account for the cell phone to see the number of texts (and date / time / location and dialed #) for this month?
How did you get him to stop talking to the other person? Posted via Mobile Device
How did you get him to stop talking to the other person? Posted via Mobile Device
Well, I was able to confirm that there was nothing innocent about the communications. That is the short version.
But communicating that much all by itself is inappropriate, even if you can't figure out what they are saying to one another.
She pretty much has one foot out the door--which means that you have some decisions to make.
Do you want to try to reconcile with her, if you could? I believe the answer is yes.
If that is so, you need to know WHAT you are dealing with. Right now you appear to still be in denial that there could be anyone else. Did you confront her about the amount of time that they were talking via cell phone? Did you look at the phone bills and tell her what you saw? That would be one potential indicator that she's switched up how she talks to him.
But frankly, she works with him, right? That means she doesn't really have to talk by cell phone. I suspect anyhow that they text or email each other when they are apart. Do you want to try to find out whether or not this is the case?
Because another option is to Let Her Go. If you feel that she has made her choice, and you don't want to chase her as she runs out the door, that is a perfectly respectable course for you to take.
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