elscotto

Any other perspectives are always appreciated so thank you in advance.

About a week ago I approached my wife and sat down at the table to discuss what was going on in our lives. The opening line went something like this "I know we both have been under a lot of stress lately and I feel like we are fighting over trivial things that are a symptom of greater issues. I want to get this under control before things are said or done that will make it that much harder or impossible to repair. We have lived half our lives with each other and have too much invested in the blood sweat and tears to have what we have today to watch it gradually slip away"

she said she wasn't sure that she loved me anymore and that she wasn't sure that she wanted to be married to me. Of course, it came out of the blue for me but had a lot of women been a fly on the wall they would have seen it all coming. So I asked her if there was someone else and she said "No, of course as with anyone human there are always going to be people that are interesting that we come in contact with in daily life." Red flag but I let it drop for now.

the next night we had a chance to talk again alone and I told her in no uncertain terms I wanted to be married to her and make things right and that I loved her and did not blame her for not knowing that as I know I have taken her for granted over the years. She says she thinks we might have both changed too much and she is not sure that I could change or if I did change it might not be the real me and she doesn't want to be married to someone that's not genuine.

She is not a good liar so I asked her again at this point if there is someone else and she responded that there is someone she is interested in. I asked her who and she said its not about them but about me and her. (I disagree when someone is threatening the well being of my kids--whether its my wife or a 3rd party) So she refused to tell me who it was.

That night I was unable to get to sleep, unable to stay asleep and got up at 3:00am and put a keylogger on her laptop. The virus software found it and alerted her so she found that and is PO'd at me.

We are planning on seeing a counselor in a couple of days after the labor day weekend.

The questions come in here. We were so much more amicable BEFORE I sat down and wanted to fix things although the last 6-8 weeks she has been VERY defensive. My guess is the defensiveness corresponds to her emotional affair with the guy she i interested in. Even before the keylogger incident she was hostile toward me after I sat down and said I wanted to work on things. I thought my going to her would be viewed as a positive and a sign I valued our relationship and saw it was off the tracks.

when we are in public or with friends she is like her old self being very friendly and genuinely laughing at my jokes and engaged in conversations. The second we walk away from them and just the two of us she will only answer or acknowledge my comments with one word answers such as "Hmmm" or if I ask her something she will say "Doesn't matter to me." Again, loads and loads of hostility even to start the day. When she is that openly hostile I don't respond in kind but just calmly rephrase my question or repeat it to get a logical response instead of being baited into a confrontation.

I know she is PO'd about the keylogger and I know it was wrong to violate her privacy. That signifies to her a loss of trust from me but I have to say I think she candidly surrendered the privilege of trust with her internet emotional affair.

What are your thoughts all and I am sorry for the long note. I tried to break it up for easier reading.

Thanks

Corpuswife

She's PO'd about the logger because she is defensive.

You have every reason to be suspicious.

She interested in this guy or already involved..you bet.

You can tell how interested she is if she wants to save the relationship and do what it takes. If not, you can't do it alone.

I've learned alot in the past 11 months or so. You can't beg, plead, or convince anyone to work on the marriage. If they are involved in an affair or want out because of the grass is greener.

Stepping back and working on yourself is the best. I've been separated for 2 months after 24 years of marriage. It hasn't been easy but I am getting stronger every day. It's all how you approach adversity. Build yourself up...you will be more attractive that way to her.

elscotto

Hmmmm Thanks Corpus-- you validated a lot of what I have been feeling. In her words she is interested and based on my knowledge of her schedule it hasn't evolved into anything else yet. She has said twice emphatically that she has NOT done anything wrong and I pointed out that if she was uncomfortable with me knowing about it then it was inappropriate and therefore wrong.

As I think about this I am starting to think this has less to do with me being and a$$hole and a bad husband and more to do with her thinking about another person.

I think that's why she is now being so mean to me because if she can bait me into being a mean person with her then it justifies the inappropriate behavior on her side. As a matter of fact she has been really bad to be around for the last 2 months and many times i would fall for the bait.

I made up my mind that I was going to be a strong and confident person around her and otherwise so if she is looking for me to be the bad guy to justify her behavior it isn't happening.

elscotto

Oh one more thing as we were sitting talking I point blank asked her if she was being unfaithful and she said no she couldn't do that. Then she went on to ask me if I had and I said no although there were times I had felt like I was entitled to it for various reasons (notably lack of sex) but I could never bring myself to do it.

I asked her why she asked and she said almost matter of factly "I just figured you had with all the travel and places you had been over the years that it probably had happened" and I was floored--both at the fact that she could have said that matter of factly and and the fact that she said it.

Blanca

ya, i think you are dead on. and the fact that she said she figured you cheated on her. can you get a copy of the phone record? im sure you can find out who she's talking to.

__________________


"I'm a lover of what is, not because I'm a spiritual person, but because it hurts when I argue with reality."
- Bryon Katie

elscotto

Yep since we are on the same family plan i can log in and note every day and time of the calls, texts, etc...That's the weird thing is there is NOTHING there. I work in the tech industry so am pretty savvy about how to do some of this stuff including add'l things that quite frankly would scare the pants off people to know can be done. I can track almost everything with the exception of facebook type postings that go via sms subscriptions to a cell phone. In that case the person sending the message is shrouded behind a facebook cloud and the other thing i can't grab is the content of the text messages. The only thing I can assume is that when I sent the kids and her to a trip to Thailand and Korea (I didn't have the vacation and couldn't go because we own a couple of small businesses and I use vacay time for the businesses) this summer when she got back things deteriorated FAST so something must have happened there with someone on the trip but not sexually because there were 21people around and shared rooms all the time. i think she has a pipe dream in her head of something that "could be" with someone from the trip because she seems a little defensive about it.

Now, as an update to all of you:

Stardate Captains log 90709: She wakes me up at 6 this morning and says she doesn't want to go to the counseling appointment we have set up tomorrow because she has made up her mind that she doesn't want to fix things. I asked her why and she says she doesn't love me and its not important to fix things for her and she isn't sure that we were ever right for each other to begin with. I was incredulous and asked her so 21 years of being together "might" have been a mistake for you? 3 beautiful kids, a beautiful home etc.... was something that coincidentally you accrued.

I told her the purpose of the counseling was not to "save" our marriage but was to effectuate change. 1. We figure out a way to be more civil and nice to each other which would bode well either during a split or a reconciliation. 2. We make our our mind that the change of separation is right for one or both of us. 3. We decide that we can and do want to stay together and be a loving couple again.

I think she is scared of what will come out. I know it actually and i think her concern is that it will force her to deal with the real issue. She acquiesced finally and said she'd go which is I think huge. Her other "interest" will come out--not by me but I think any skilled therapist will get to that in short order. That should be interesting.

The other thing is i asked her after this opening salvo on her part this morning was if she had thought through the implications of this all. She responded yes in terms of family, friends etc...I said no I was really thinking about the complexities of our lives and how intertwined they were. I asked her if she thought about what the divorce would cost us in terms of dollars from our assets? More on the next post on this subject.

jsniceguy

wow that sounds very similar to my situation but it hasn't gotten to that point yet. Do you feel that every time you try to discuss it with her it is an inconvenience and seems to make things worse? In your situation - make sure that you keep your cool and continue to focus on yourself and the person you are. If she does not choose to do counseling it is not a bad idea to look into it for yourself for no other reason than to be able to talk with someone completely free.

knortoh

I have been going through really similar experiences with my H for over 10 months. I think it is tricky for us to accept that someone we love so much could be dishonest or at least short on honesty. I have learnt the hard way to pretty much ignore what he says now - because I have heard it all - "I don't think I have ever really loved you and I have always loved you" ....and now I just look at his actions - the telling ones -
1. took off his wedding band,
2. stopped going to relationship counselling,
3. found himself somewhere to live,
4. moved out - all the while saying "i don't know doesn't mean No" and "I can't stand the idea of you with another man"...." I don't see it as we are separated - just married but living apart"....
It ain't exactly what I call a marriage!

elscotto

JS--you are right on wrt keeping cool. You are also dead on in that nothing is ever convenient for her. I'll cover that in the follow up below.

Thanks for the reply.

elscotto

Update:

So after I laid out the reasons for the counseling she reluctantly agreed to go to counseling for today. I told her that I wanted her going forward to be nice to me in private like she is to me in public and that it bothered me that we could function around other people and laugh at each other and engage each other in conversation. I catch her looking at me at times when I am not talking when we are with other people but she is just patently mean to me when we are alone. One word hmmmm's when I say something and as I pointed out if someone were a fly on the wall they would conclude that she genuinely hates me--period. So I told her no more of that and we HAD to be nice to each other. We are joined at the hip for the next year at least to which she was surprised.

I then laid out that I thought the divorce would cost us a half million dollars in terms of selling assets under market value and attorney and professional fees. She said I was hoping we could just do this amicably and I said as much as I would like to commit to that I saw no way it could be. I grew up poor and worked 80 hour weeks to get where we are and I will not and can not be poor again. I dangled out the possibility of not selling one of the businesses (the one she manages and works in) and she thought that was a great idea. I am not sure-if I wanted to be a hardcase I could force sale of both the businesses and house because she won't have enough liquid cash or credit facilities to buy me out. She is petrified I will do that because it would mean she'd have to go start a new business or go on the job hunt trial. Oh yeah, when I was working 80 hours a week in my last corp job I put her through an MBA program because she wanted to go to school so her brain wouldn't turn to mush.

I know she didn't sleep well last night at all and woke up in a bad mood this morning. She has been very terse with me today and I know she is DREADING this counseling meeting. I am not sure why--but my guess is she has made up her mind its over between us and doesn't want the can of worms or any doubt re introduced. The second thing is she might be forced to address the internet/old bf budding romance and what she can tell me is none of my business she can't tell the counselor.

Thanks or all of the support and insight folks.

knortoh

I am not sure why--but my guess is she has made up her mind its over between us and doesn't want the can of worms or any doubt re introduced. The second thing is she might be forced to address the internet/old bf budding romance and what she can tell me is none of my business she can't tell the counselor

knortoh

hmmm
don't want to be the voice of doom and I sincerely hope it takes you somewhere better but -

at first my H. agreed to go to counselling fairly happily and then as we were going through it I realised that he wasn't 'sharing'.
I had envisioned this wonderful process where we woudl learn how to communicte with one another and that a full and staisfying 'conversation' would ensue - however I found he would talk in the session but not when we got out and what's worse he would say all sorts of weird stuff outside of the sessions that he didn't in the session. In the end I wrote the counsellor a letter and he ended up pressing my H. on whether he was actually committed to sorting things out or not - it turned out he wasn't and he came home from that meeting saying that "counselling was just something he couldn't do" ...of course he is still happy to see his own counsellor !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

elscotto

We went to the counseling--the first and what appears to be the last session of marriage counseling. The short of it is she told the counselor she didn't want to save it and during discovery the counselor--with me in the room couldn't seem to fina anything tangible so asked me to leave the room.

40 agonizing minutes later I was asked back in to which the counselor asked me to work on the 2-3 things that aggravated my wife that we had put on the board before I left the room.

Then went on to say that the prospects for saving the marriage didn't look good so I guess my wife did a pretty good job of holding her position or providing additional information to substantiate her position while I was out of the room. I'll never know because of patient confidentiality and my wife's lack of willingness to communicate with me on it.

So the counselor told my wife also she recommended seeing an attorney and a separation. To me separation is a step away from a married and a step toward divorce--nothing more or less. The more I think about this I am conflicted as to why I should be the one who gets up and moves out of the house. How is it that my wife will understand the gravity of her decision to turn 5 people's lives upside down if HER life remains the same. She wakes up in the 6k foot house I built and paid for?

I am of the opinion at this point that if she wants to run away from the marriage she should go apartment hunting.

Thoughts?

knortoh

I agree I think that the person who wants to leave the relationship should leave the house. Facing up to unpleasnat practical consequences is a big part of this - also it is a symbolic thing for the kids....

elscotto

Thanks Knortoh--I think making this as difficult for her as possible will bring to the cold light of day the reality that is divorce and why its important to make EVERY effort to validate that its the right decision.

If it turns out that it is the right decision it won't be without hurt and heartbreak on all sides including the children but it will be a fact and situation in life that has to embraced, addressed, managed, and closed.

That said the more I think of it the more I am starting to think it might not be half bad to date a woman that appears passionate for me as I am for her and makes me feel like I am important. I haven't felt that for years and I resent it.