Affaircare

russ101~

A few of your words have deep significance to them and I'd like to go over them with you, okay?

This is precisely 100% correct. On your own go ahead and find a sitter right now. Hire them on your own and inform your wife you will be walking with her from now on. If there were nothing going on, then she and Larry would say, "Oh yay! We're glad for the company!" and they would chat with you happily while the three of you walk. Naturally this is not likely the case, and if she is mad about it, that's life. Right now, whether they have or have not slept together, your job is to squash the emotional affair that has sprouted, and it's okay if she is mad about some of it--you have to protect your marriage!!!!!! So get a sitter and get one now.

This is what's known as deflecting: "It's okay for me to do this thing that I know is wrong because once, long ago, you did something that was wrong." Even if you french-kissed Kate for 20 minutes in your wife's presence, that is not a legitimate reason for her to have an affair now. Sooooo...don't fall for this as it's a very common trap that a disloyal spouse uses. If what's she's doing is wrong, she should stop it--your past wrongdoings are irrelevant. (Furthermore, it doesn't sound like it was wrong...just Kate being caught up in a moment of holiday spirit or something).

Just a note--having an emotional affair with someone has the same pleasure feeling as a person who is high on drugs, so of course she doesn't want to stop. This is like asking someone who is high, "Do you want to stop feeling this high?" Of course they don't. But it is is "out in the open and in front of the kids" then she wouldn't mind if you came along or even if the kids came along! russ, it's NOT the same thing. She is hiding her walks and being secretive, and she is not protecting herself and her marriage. Soooo... for a little while you have to do that for her. If you do succeed in squashing the emotional affair, she will likely be mad because she is the drug addict and you just cut off her supply. But when a good friend we love is hooked on drugs, sometimes we do an intervention out of love to help them, don't we?

This is another typical "trick" that disloyal spouses try to pull. They try to turn it around on the loyal spouse by saying something like "How DARE you invade my privacy!" Let me explain that there is a difference between privacy and secrecy. "Privacy" is when you go to the restroom and close the door...or take a shower and pull the curtain. You might think of privacy as associated with modesty, but when a man and woman become husband and wife, you note that sometimes they might shower together or at the very least some of the modesty BETWEEN THOSE TWO is reduced. The idea is that you intimately know your spouse and so they are invited into your private life! "Secrecy" is when you hide things about yourself--what you're doing, thinking or feeling--from others. You are not transparent, you are dishonest about what's really going on with you, and you purposely mislead another person. Between a husband and wife some bit of privacy would be healthy, but secrecy is NOT healthy. So you are not "spying" on her. It is your home, your possessions, your wife and your marriage. YOU are the one who is allowed to go there (not Larry). The intruder here would be Larry, not you.

russ, I want to be sure we understand something here. You can not "make" your wife do anything. You can not force her to stop her affair with Larry or control what she does or when. The only person you can control is you. If she is going to stop her affair, she has to want to do it and choose to do it of her own accord. BUT what you can do is make it so that it is more difficult/painful for her to choose to continue the affair, and simultaneously make it so that is it easier and less painful for her to choose to save the marriage. Does that make sense? Ultimately she has to make the decision for herself and want to end it.

Right now, she is having some of her basic human needs met by you--probably finances, some security, some family commitment, some physical needs, etc.--and she is having some of her basic human needs met by Larry (emotional needs and maybe social needs). She has this fantasy that he will be her perfect soulmate and meet all her needs flawlessly, and that you will move out, she keeps the kids, the house, and gets child support and alimony, and then her soulmate moves in...and they live happily in love forever. Well you and I both know that will never happen! She will be the one who moves out into a little one bedroom apartment, she will lose her kids at least half the time, she won't be granted child support or alimony, and then Larry will have to take out the trash and complain about having to do chores after working all day. They'll have big lawyer bills from the divorce, and his ex will call him all the time wanting money for their kids. It's a MESS! But she's not seeing that or thinking clearly.

So job #1--think of some people who are pro-marriage whose opinion she might care about, and let them know what's going on. These people are often a pastor or minister, elders in the church, her family or best friends, or her employer (could her job performance suffer due to this brewing affair? Her employer deserves to know this potential loss). Now everyone is different. Sometimes the parents will tell their child "Oh honey we support you--do what makes you happy." Those are NOT the people to go to!! :P We want people who usually are important to your wife who will talk to her and say, "What are you doing? Stop this foolish flirting and work on your marriage!" See why I suggest maybe her pastor?

Part of the reason this affair is so fun is that it is a "forbidden love" and it's sneaky and secret. It's not so fun when people know and disapprove. So Job #1 is to figure out people who will mean something to her, and let them know what's going on. "(Wife) has been walking with another man and it has begun to get inappropriate. When I asked her to stop, she refused and I believe they are on the verge of an affair if they haven't started one already. I'm letting you know so you can pray for us and help us get through this potential harm to our marriage." Okay??

Job #2--Get that sitter and go on the walks with her.

Job #3--Begin looking into the thing turnera has described so you can gather concrete evidence that it's inappropriate. Find a keylogger you can install on her computer to see what she's doing. Check her phone/text records. Install a voice-activated recorder where you think they may be in order to catch them. (Bear in mind though that you're likely to catch some things either online or on a recorder that are REALLY hard to hear/see.)

So you have three jobs! Time to get to work to save your marriage!!

russ101

Thanks for your advice. I believe everything you are saying is true. I don't think Larry climbed out the window on Wed. (I would have heard it, and I could definitely hear moaning) but I still don't know why she was in our son's room. I don't know much about Larry other than the fact that he was married, and is now recently divorced. He doesn't even own the home across the street, (he rents). I did talk to another neighbor yesterday and he told me that the reason Larry got divorced in the first place, was because his wife caught him cheating with one of the neighbors (big suprise) and also one of his co workers. His wife divorced him after she found out about the second one. He knows this because he talked to the ex wife when she came around looking for Larry when he wasn't home. The neighbor doesn't know where she lives, but does know they have one grown child together. I am going to do a little investigating to find out where they are and let them know. I don't know if I could talk to our pastor about it though. If my wife found out about it (and she would), I could almost guarentee she would divorce me over it, she would be soooo angry, especially since she doesn't think she is doing anything wrong. The only way I could prove to her that I know the relationship is more than friendly is if I let her listen to herself on the phone recording I have of her with her sister where she says they shared a 15 second kiss and that she liked it. If I do that then I cannot get anymore evidence. I think for the time being I am going to not let on, but I am going to insist that I be able to walk with them. I'll just have to get a sitter. We'll see how that works out. I am also going to get a recording device and see if I can get it on her while she is walking. I am installing a hidden camera in our bedroom and in our son's bedroom as well as the main room in order to find out what is going on when I am not there. Hopefully, I will have some more news for you on Monday. Thanks for all the help. Any more advice is appreciated.

Affaircare

So no matter how "good" Larry may look to your wife, we know for a fact that he's good at hooking vulnerable women and that he is not beneath participating in adultery. Even if he was "just a friend" I can't see any good reason to have a friendship with a person who has that kind of moral caliber, especially if he's not repenting and turning his life around. Yeah--bad news but I'm glad you know it. It's just more evidence of the truth of what's happening.


I understand your hesitation to talk to your pastor but do bear in mind that a pastor is supposed to be confidential and you should be able to go to him with your spiritual needs like praying for you. If she were to get THAT mad over you honestly and privately talking to the pastor about your concern--I'm sorry but I believe she knows that what she's doing is wrong. Her hope is that if she pitches a big enough fit, you will back off and let her continue without any hassle. If she were not doing drugs and you went to the pastor with concern that she was doing drugs, would she pitch a fit and divorce you over that? Probably not! She'd probably be somewhat angry but just go talk to him with the proof that she's not doing 'em.

The whole point of speaking to someone, as I said, is not to "tattle tale" but so you have someone who is pro-marriage who also has the authority to help talk sense to her. It's also to bring their little secret to the light of day. As long as it's secret, it has a bit of the fun of "forbidden fruit" and they will try to get away with that as long as they can. You can contribute to squashing it by bringing it to the light of day! Finally it's so that you have someone on your side to help you get through this, to encourage you, and to be a support. It sounds like some of your neighbors have been supportive too.

However, I see that there is some wisdom to at least gathering some evidence. Please consider the right time to go and speak to your pastor, with some of the proof that it's at least inappropriate.

I just wanted to say I think these are good moves in the right direction. Bring the kids along on the walk if you have to--buy a stroller! And I'm sure there are teenage girls at the church who would be happy to babysit while you walk. But I like the idea of insisting that you go on the walks -- if nothing else it will close one more door for their rendezvous -- and I also like that you are being proactive about gathering some evidence. Honestly? I pray that nothing more is going on and you caught it before it got too far...but that is not often the case. Usually by the time the loyal spouse notices, it's pretty far along and much, MUCH more is going on.

Look forward to hearing from you on Monday!

turnera

I would also let your wife know about WHY his wife divorced him. And yes, you look her in the face and say 'yes, I AM checking up on the man who is obviously trying to have sex with you, if you haven't already.'

Make it VERY obvious that you know what's going on and you aren't going to sit by and watch it happen.

MEM11363

Russ,
Why are you letting her bully you when she is clearly 100 percent in the wrong? Don't you realize that women despise weak men?

russ101

Thanks for all of your replies. Here's what happened over the weekend. I did as I said I was going to do and told her I would be walking with her (this is what we originally wanted to do anyway). She flipped and said if you want to walk with me fine, but not when I walk with Larry. He is a friend and you can either accept it, or not. I don't tell you who you can walk with or not! I said, if you have nothing to hide, then why can't I walk with the two of you, and she said if you want to walk with us occasionally, fine, but not every day. I'm not a child! We got into a huge arguement, I told her about his past, and she said I was just listening to neighborhood gossip, and I didn't know the full story. She then walked with him on Friday and Sat night alone. I watched carefully through the window and they did not go into his home after the walk. I am not, nor am I going to be able to get through to her. I then said to her will you at least not go into his home at night after your walk. It is not appropriate and does not look right. She said well I usually don't anyway, but I guess I can see your point on this, so I won't go into his home alone at night. This was the only compromise I could get her to do. So I am playing the waiting game to see if I can get undeniable proof that something is happening between them. Once I have it, I will tell her it is either him or me, decide. I am going to get a friend of mine that she doesn't know to follow her and Larry on their walks for a couple of nights and see what happens. I have also installed hidden cameras in three rooms in our house. and am still trying to get a recording device on her for her walks (haven't been able to do this yet). I have our telephone recording all incoming and outgoing calls, but she has been using her cell phone lately. I checked it since I pay the bills and she has not called any numbers that I don't recognize. She does call her sister a lot on it though, and this is who she talks to all the time. Her and Larry are both off this Wed. so I am going to make it known to her that I won't be home till after 5:00 on that day to make up for last Wed (when I left early). She keeps insisting that this is nothing more than a friendship and she may be right, but I know that she has feelings for him, so I guess I am waiting for her to prove it so she cannot deny it. I will let you all know what happens tonight. She did not handle my insisting very well, which you all said would happen, but unless I have unmistakeable proof, I am not going to do anything. I hope it doesn't happen.

turnera

Geez.

If I was in your shoes, I would have walked 50 feet behind them the whole way.

Way to stand up for yourself.

Sorry to be rude, but good grief. Standing up like that, and then just sitting back down while she went out BOTH nights just put you about 12 notches down in her respect list. I would have had her clothes moved into the spare bedroom.

She KNOWS that what she is doing is inappropriate. She is DARING you to stand up for yourself and your marriage. She knows you're too big of a wimp to do it. That's why she's falling into 'manly' Larry's arms - you just don't do it for her any more cos she needs a take-charge kind of guy; even it's the kind who sleeps with other men's wives. At least he's taking charge.

That said, good work on setting up the recorders. And excellent work on getting the friend to follow. Make sure he takes a camera. Do you also have a keylogger on her computer? I would do that pronto.

Affaircare

LOL Okay that's easy enough. NOT! Don't accept it. Tonight CARRY THE BABY if you have to and walk with them. You can even let Larry know "I disapprove of you walking alone with my wife, I've let her know I don't appreciate the overtures you are trying to make, and since I love and her she is my wife, I'll be walking with you from now on. I don't accept you two walking alone and keeping your walks secret from me." LOL Boy that was easy!

Here's the part that drop-jaw STUNS me though:
WHY did you not walk with her? Seriously this is silly. No human in their right mind would refuse to allow the person they love and respect to walk with them...ALL THE TIME! I don't even know you and you could walk with me because I don't care...I'm walking for the exercise!

I mean this sincerely. Do not let her walk alone again. If she tries to, go with her. If she pitches a fit, let her. If she pitches a fit in front of Larry, some of the tarnish will be off the affair-rose. If she refuses to walk with you along--THEN YOU BROKE UP THE LOVERS! There is no lose here, it's all win/win. Do not let her walk alone again.

Russ, you are still operating under the assumption that the person in your wife's skin right now is your wife and the reasonable, rational, sensible woman you knew. She is not. It may help if you envisioned her as a drug addict and Larry is her heroin. No drug addict I know is rational when faced with someone trying to take away their drug. In fact, I have known drug addicts to get desperate, hurt their loved ones, even hurt themselves all in an attempt to get their drug back! And they most definitely ARE NOT reasonable.

Your wife is not going to agree to requests that are rational right now, because it is not exactly your wife, russ. It is a drug addict in your wife's skin and you are threatening to take away her drug. She will be decidedly UNREASONABLE and I highly doubt she will compromise to agree to give up her drug. Do you know any addicts who say, "Well okay...I will give up the heroin because you have a good point there..."? LOL NO! No they fight with you! The fight tooth and nail to keep their heroin, even trying to trick you!

So please remove it from your mind that you are speaking to your rational wife and that if you say it right, she will agree to give up her affair-drug. She won't. You need to do an intercession and cut off her drug supply.

__________________
Helping couples recover and reconcile after an affair or keep their marriages affair-free at Affaircare

russ101

Ok everyone, quick update: she went walking with Larry last night after she thought I went to bed. I had a friend follow them (about 5 houses behind), he was unable to tape it though because of it being too dark. He said nothing inappropriate seemed to happen, however they did give eachother a quick hug at the end of the walk ( I witnessed it through the bedroom window, and it did appear to be very quick and harmless), she then came home and "woke me up" and we had great sex. All this after she would barely speak to me over the weekend. She was very affectionate. I really don't get her. Nothing new on the phone recordings, so I am still trying to catch her doing something she should'nt be doing. Does anyone know how to record at night? I don't want my friend to follow them every night or she might become suspicious. I am also waiting until Wed. when she and Larry are off at the same time. I will have the hidden cameras in our house and I have my friend (whom she doesn't know) following her throughout the day (I had to pay him to take the day off of work). Any more advice appreciated. But it seems the more I back off, the more affectionate she is towards me. Still playing the waiting game.

turnera

That's called cake eating. It's part of the 'thrill' of having an affair - you get to lead a double life, have two men pawing at you - what an ego boost. She goes from him seducing her to bed with you, and she's all hyped up - thus the great time. Ick.

okeydokie

dude, are you really this naive?

Affaircare

Yeah--unfortunately what tunera says is true. She goes with Larry, is all excited by being with him, then comes home and is "affectionate" with you.

Just to be clear, affection is when you care about someone enough to do kind things for them, demonstrate through your actions that they are important to you, and behave toward them in a loving manner. Soooo...after your wife comes home from her Larry fix, is she treating you like that? If not, it's not affection. It's jumping your bones because she can't quite justify jumping his (sorry to be so graphic but my hope is that the rawness of the truth might snap you awake).

Just because they do not kiss and make out in front of your friend doesn't mean it's innocent. First, she made the effort to sneak out of the house for this walk when she thought you were sleeping. Second, the whole time they are walking they may have been talking about how much they long for each other or how he'll take care of her once she leaves you. Third, she is clearly trying to exclude her own husband and cover up what she's doing. Please do not be deceived, this is NOT innocent.

__________________
Helping couples recover and reconcile after an affair or keep their marriages affair-free at Affaircare

Tanelornpete

Russ:

1) Your wife IS having an affair. It may only at the emotional level right now, but this is a progression, it WILL develop into more physical things over time, as with any close relationship.

2) You are taking good steps, keep them up.

3) Add to this a further step: start doing things for your wife. Treat her as you did when you were first married. Write her love notes, compliment her, do all the things that you did when you first fell in love.

KEEP THESE THINGS IN MIND:

a) This is NOT in order to get her to respond back to you. She may or may not. It may make her uncomfortable, she may ignore you entirely, she may get angry. Irrelevant.

b) What this does is remind her of what she loved about you. It may be that she has to wander very far away before she returns. She may not return. Regardless, what YOU do in this time will always remain - you are doing what is right, and you can live with yourself, knowing that you were loving, kind and understanding.

c) There may come a time when you must cut off all ties completely. DO NOT DO THIS YET. When you do, it will be to let her understand what she has walked away from. This is a step that you may need to take one day. Not today.

Right now, be the man she loved, and remember that she has been taken over by aliens. She looks and sounds and feels and smells like the person you married. But she does not THINK like the person you married. She has built a fantasy world and is living in it, contrary to all reality. You job, should you chose to accept it, is to make reality loving and open for her.

But do not be a doormat. Do not let her walk over you; do NOT aid this affair in any way. Do all you can to extinguish it.

Ask her where she is going in the middle of the night. Go with her on her walks. In fact, I'd suggest that since she doesn't want you to walk with her and loverboy - why not just tell her you really need the exercise as well - and walk a block behind them. You certainly are not walking WITH them, - and you are getting your exercise! What's wrong with that??? What a coincidence that it happens the same time as her walk!

Get to know loverboy. Take him out for a beer. Make him uncomfortable. Let him know you will guard your wife, and that you love her.

Keep it up. You can save your marriage - but what is better: you can do the right thing at all times.

sunflower

Oh man seriously if you dont do somethiing about this now its going to go south fast do you want her having sex with this guy? I mean right now its just a kiss but keep hiding it all and it will go into a affair? what are you doing?

russ101

My wife didn't walk with him last night. She went to bed early. I took the opportunity to talk to Larry about what is happening with my wife. I saw him getting ready to go for his walk and I walked across the street to talk to him. I told him that I know that he kissed my wife (he swears he did not do anything and that my wife was the one who kissed him, and that he did not kiss her back and that was the end of it. He insists that they are just friends and that I have to stop pestering my wife about it. He then reminded me that I was the one who asked him to walk with her in the first place. I said Yes walk with her, not kiss her. I know what he is saying is false (because of my wife's phone calls to her sister). I said you better never try anything with my wife. He just stated again that they are just friends and I need to lighten up, or I'll drive my wife away from me. He tried to act like my friend. I know that he is lying so he is not my friend. I know I'm going to hear about this from my wife when I get home from work today, but I needed to do this since they both have Wed. off while I am at work. Not looking forward to the confrontation when I get home. I know that I am probably receiving all of my affection from my wife (sex and other) because of Larry, but I guess I can live with the walks as long as I monitor them, and I am reasonably confident nothing else is happening, because before she was walking with Larry, I was lucky to get sex once a month, at even then, it was bad (she just laid there for 5 minutes, that was all I was allowed, then she would say hurry up and be done already), now I am getting it several times a week, and it is great (although she still won't kiss me, hasn't in 5 years). Even if it is due to Larry, at least I am the one getting it. I'll let you all know what happens tonight when I get home and will probably get confronted by my wife on why I won't let this issue die.