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Married Man Sex Life Primer (AKA MMSLP) and you.

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#1 ·
Just started reading this book

I understand why everyone who read this book now says weightlifting and getting in shape is helpful.

I just started reading the book yesterday, I'm on page 79, part 6.10 ( no quick fix ).

For those that don't know
From what I am reading now and understand it talks about Alpha and Beta Traits and what to do, to improve those traits.

It also goes into a simple point rating system, like many guys and girls would say how do you rate that person on a 1 to 10..

Nutshell you have to be a higher point on the scale then your significant other. If your a higher point, then they want you. If your lower and don't look to improve your rating to be equal they will look some place else..

I would suggest you don't read it if your still crying over your ex and have no control. The first few chapters will definitely open up some old wounds and it can be tough for some. As an example the author mentions " I love you but not in love with you" and other comments how crying and begging making you weaker. For me it was like "Ugg, I shouldn't have done that"

But over all I honestly think there should be a thread on this book with suggestions related to the book as well.

But I see I need to start making a move to working out as I have some Alpha going but this is one I am lacking. Again just another trait in the Alpha column to check off.

I downloaded it to my Mac and my Iphone with the kindle app.
 
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#91 ·
If your marriage is in a rut or your wife doesn't seem interested in you and you're 50 lbs. overweight Athol's advice would be to lose the weight.

Is this going to be an automatic fix to what is troubling your marriage? Of course not.

But what it will do is make you more attractive which will improve the situation you are in. Now is that such a bad thing?

Yes, it is quite obvious but as pointed out earlier millions of people smoke, drink & drive, don't wear their seat belt as well even when it's obvious they shouldn't.

Millions of people actually do need to be informed that being overweight is hurting their marriage.

I don't see his writings aimed at reeling in a cheating spouse but more aimed at revitalizing a marriage that is floundering.
 
#95 ·
It cheered me up. Especially with all the "she can be replaced talk" and "everything in a relationship boils down to sex rank". That was fun and put a smile on my face when nothing else would.

A year later, I've run the MAP. I am in great shape physically, I have a new expensive wardrobe, I get crazy attention from women everywhere I go and I still pretty much hate myself.

I need to work on inner game, which is to say, I'm not interested in some hollow shell of a relationship but it'll be a while before I can let myself be vulnerable to a woman. If sex drive is all animalistic impulse then I will never let myself be that vulnerable to a woman again.

For anyone who hasn't read the book but wants a 5 paragraph synopsis, here it is:

Dread | Chateau Heartiste
 
#100 ·
I need to work on inner game, which is to say, I'm not interested in some hollow shell of a relationship but it'll be a while before I can let myself be vulnerable to a woman. If sex drive is all animalistic impulse then I will never let myself be that vulnerable to a woman again.

For anyone who hasn't read the book but wants a 5 paragraph synopsis, here it is:

Dread | Chateau Heartiste
My man, if your aim is to have a relationship of substance, I'd ignore every piece of advice in that article. It's tragic.

Firstly, even mentioning 'Soulmates' is a major warning sign. Ridiculous schoolgirl mush. My wife is not my missing half, she does not 'complete' me. I'm a fully rounded individual in my own right. As is she.

Secondly, I realise the article is aimed at men in the dating scene, but all it advocates is the playing of silly games and manipulation. I mean really? Is that anyway to conduct a relationship?

"The key for the man is to adopt a posture of blase emotional distance alternated with loving tenderness. Too much of either and she’ll run off."
Yeah, because without contrived and premeditated emotional manipulation there's no reason for her to remain interested in you :rolleyes:
The whole article reeks of insecurity. Men are encouraged to purposely de-stabilise their SO in order to maintain their attraction, because apparently they have no other redeeming qualities. No authenticity. No integrity. Just silly kids games.

Make a blatant but plausibly deniable move on one of her friends when she’s not around. The news will get back to her. Milk it.
This reminds me of an exchange between my wife and I:

Wife: My [ex-fiance] tried to make me jealous. It was so pathetic.
Me : Have I made you jealous?
Wife: No.

Boys & Men is all that comes to mind. I'm not entirely sure what 'Inner Game' is to be honest (and happy to be enlightened) but from what I can understand there's nothing so irresistible as being; authentic, comfortable with yourself and confident. I don't think that article will get you there.

Best of luck on your journey.
 
#96 ·
I am more bemused by Athol's MMSLP than anything else. Yes, it is a book designed for the everyday reader, so it is heavy on labels, acronyms and "science" in order to allow the everyday laymen to understand Athol's points. IMHO, the bottom line is that if you use your common sense and what you learned by interacting with people throughout your life, you KNOW how to make a strong marriage that has ALL the important components for man and woman.

Here is sex rank as I believe Athol to think it is meant to be. Again, back to more common sense.
  • Career > Job
  • Good muscle tone > soft, flabby body
  • Confidence > lack of confidence
  • Having self respect > having no self respect
  • Standing up for yourself > letting everyone walk all over you
  • Spending quality time with your spouse > avoiding your spouse in favor of doing something else
  • Having a confident demeanor when making moves on your spouse > begging for sex
  • Showing you are capable of doing for yourself > needing your spouse for everything
  • More money > less money
  • Taking pride in personal appearance > dressing like a slob
  • Good hygene > poor hygene
  • Leading an active life > being a couch potato.
  • Smart > Dumb (but probably better to say Educated > Ignorant)

How did I do? Did I get most of it? I think I did and I didn't need Athol to tell me this. Also, what will make the "sex rank" nebulous is not what it is made of but how each individual will weight this basket of goods. Some traits are more important to some people than others. It's up to you to find someone who is compatible with you that shares your values, ideals and outlook on life.

Bottom line for me is that if people think they need MMSLP, then have at it. But if you have enough common sense and understand people then I think you would be wasting your money.
 
#98 ·
How did I do? Did I get most of it?

I think you pretty well nailed it.

I think I did and I didn't need Athol to tell me this.

Unfortunately many men do need to be told. :(


Also, what will make the "sex rank" nebulous is not what it is made of but how each individual will weight this basket of goods. Some traits are more important to some people than others. It's up to you to find someone who is compatible with you that shares your values, ideals and outlook on life.


One would hope that is always the case but I'd rather date a compatible "hottie" than a compatible "nottie." :smthumbup:


Bottom line for me is that if people think they need MMSLP, then have at it.

You're right we all should know what we need to do. But then again next time you're in Barnes and Noble check out the amount of books on dieting. Don't we all know how to eat? Should we all know that a salad is healthier than a Twinkie? And yet....

But if you have enough common sense and understand people then I think you would be wasting your money.

Most of what Athol writes about is actually free on his website (blog) so money is really not an issue. :D
 
#99 ·
Thanks bfree. I think the crux of the situation has more to do with execution than ignorance. Sure, there are people that have no clue about healthy eating and need a basic book. Others who are trying to pack on muscle or get into competitive bodybuilding need more nuanced information that may not be obvious. But IMHO, when it comes to relationships, for the most part the interactions should be more obvious. I think the books dealing with relationships become more useful when you are dealing with a personality quirk or an actual mental condition like autism, bi-polar, chronic depression, etc. When things are not clear cut because you were probably not introduced to these issues growing up, you definitely will need some additional insight.

I know some in this thread do not like your analogies, but I don't get bothered by them TBH. I've used them myself, and the reason why is because people seem to shroud marriage and LTR's in some mysterious cloak that is unlike anything else we have experience with before. I think that's patently false, and that there is no more mystery being in a marriage than there is dealing with anyone else. We all know that if you do not stand up to a bully when you are a kid, you will continue to be bullied. This is no different than being in a marriage where if you do not stand up to your spouse who is trying to take and control more and more things, you will continue to be marginalized. It never worked to nice your way out of harms way with a bully. Why would someone think that you can nice your way out of dealing with an angry spouse that is resenting you more and more as time goes on?

Deep down, we know a lot more than we care to admit. Hell, most of the threads started in CWI or GRI are more for emotional support than to truly get answers, although almost all of them are started as if they are seeking answers.
 
#106 ·
Thanks bfree. I think the crux of the situation has more to do with execution than ignorance. Sure, there are people that have no clue about healthy eating and need a basic book. Others who are trying to pack on muscle or get into competitive bodybuilding need more nuanced information that may not be obvious. But IMHO, when it comes to relationships, for the most part the interactions should be more obvious. I think the books dealing with relationships become more useful when you are dealing with a personality quirk or an actual mental condition like autism, bi-polar, chronic depression, etc. When things are not clear cut because you were probably not introduced to these issues growing up, you definitely will need some additional insight.

I know some in this thread do not like your analogies, but I don't get bothered by them TBH. I've used them myself, and the reason why is because people seem to shroud marriage and LTR's in some mysterious cloak that is unlike anything else we have experience with before. I think that's patently false, and that there is no more mystery being in a marriage than there is dealing with anyone else. We all know that if you do not stand up to a bully when you are a kid, you will continue to be bullied. This is no different than being in a marriage where if you do not stand up to your spouse who is trying to take and control more and more things, you will continue to be marginalized. It never worked to nice your way out of harms way with a bully. Why would someone think that you can nice your way out of dealing with an angry spouse that is resenting you more and more as time goes on?

Deep down, we know a lot more than we care to admit. Hell, most of the threads started in CWI or GRI are more for emotional support than to truly get answers, although almost all of them are started as if they are seeking answers.
Yes yes yes! Exactly! I absolutely despise it when I hear people talk about "my soulmate" or say "its meant to be." What drivel. Most of it is common sense but the society we live in tries to complicate everything. I never used to use analogies. I was always a direct in your face kind of guy. But people never understood (or wanted to understand) what I was saying so I started using analogies. Frankly I hate it that Athol Kay had to write a book in order to get people to look in the mirror. And although I enjoy his writing style I hate it that he has to talk using phrases like alpha and beta. But people nowadays just don't seem to get it. I think its a disconnect we now have from one another and there is less generational contact. Used to be that your mother and father handed down wisdom that they were taught by their mothers and fathers. Used to be that if you had a problem that you needed to talk about you went to your barber, your pastor or your bartender if not your best friend. Those days are unfortunately gone and now we're left with....heck I don't even know what we're left with but it isn't good.
 
#109 ·
I read the book and was posting at the website for awhile. I was trying to get down a few layers of understanding, but it never came. There were some good points, but they were the obvious ones, like Wiserforit has been saying.

My main objection to the book is that it is supposed a marriage tool, yet the book speaks NOTHING about LOVE. AT ALL. There is no where in the book that discusses love on any level.

How is a marriage book that doesn't even discuss love helpful at all?
 
#111 ·
I copied this from Cheateau Heartiste. What the writer goes through in his typical scenario...well I confess that was hitting pretty close to home. That's why I like what MMSL & Athol Kay have to say because it resonated with me pretty strongly. (FYI I'm not now and never have been a fat slob :eek:)

Relationship Game Week: A Reader’s Journey | Chateau Heartiste

I changed our relationship dynamic after learning about game. I stopped always asking her what she wants and started being decisive while playing up the mysterious angle.

Here was a typical scenario back then:

HER: “I’m hungry.”

ME: “What do you want to eat?”

HER: “I don’t know…”

ME: “How about McDonalds?”

HER: “I dunno.”

ME: “How about Taco bell?”

HER: {shrugs}

ME: “KFC? I know you really like the original recipe chicken dinner…”

HER: “well yeah…”

ME: “OK, great, let’s go!”

Drives to the KFC drive-thru.

ME: I’ll have the Zesty Crispy Chicken Wrap…what do you want, honey?”

HER: “I don’t want to eat here.”

ME: “What? I thought you said…”

HER: “I never said I wanted KFC.”

ME: “But…what do you want then? Whatever you want, just let me know, and we’ll go there!”

HER: “It’s too late, you’ve already ordered here.”

ME: “Fine then. So what do you want?”

HER: “Nothing, just take me home. I’ll figure out what I’m going to eat later. {Said in a grouchy tone}.

ME: “Why do you have to be like that?

HER: “Be like what? I never said I wanted KFC!”

ME: “Well what do you want then?”

HER: “Don’t worry about me already! Just get YOUR food and take me home!”

ME: “I’ve asked you how many times to tell me what you want and I’ll take you there! Why do you always have to act like this?”

HER: “Act like what? Nevermind already! It’s obvious you don’t really care about what I want…it’s only about what you want! I didn’t want KFC and yet you’re trying to make like it’s all my fault just because I don’t want to eat here! I never wanted to eat here in the first place!!!!”

ME: “$*%^(YT@#($)(#&!!!!!”

Same scenario, now:

HER: “I’m hungry”

ME: “So am I. Let’s go.”

HER: “Go where?”

ME: “You’ll see.”

HER: “C’mon, tell me…”

ME {Rolling my eyes and turning away from her, getting ready to head out with or without her.}: “Are you gonna sit here and play twenty questions like a spoiled little princess or are you gonna come along and eat with me?”

HER {Now she starts getting ready to go.}: “C’mon…why don’t you tell me…”

At that point, I could take her to a fine-dining restaurant or McDonalds, it doesn’t matter.

What mattered was that I passed her sh!t test and played the role of the ‘provider.’

I stopped treating my wife like I was an enslaved sycophant willing to do whatever the goddess desired and started treating her like the kid sister with the backhanded compliments, light-hearted teasing, and over-the-top sarcasm to deal with her ****-tests…all within the “frame” of subconsciously reinforcing the notion that I’m attractive to other women.
 
#112 ·
I tend to find in "real life" that this sort of thing is tolerated by a certain sort of woman and enacted by a certain sort of man.

I also tend to find that those types do not appear in my wide circle of friends. Each to their own, but I would rather treat women like people rather than easily manipulated walking vaginas.
 
#115 ·
Gawd, I don't dominate her.

She is just a little more happy if I take the more traditional male role.

But she can and does make decisions, will question my decisions if she thinks they are daft and will come up with suggestions when she thinks of them.

She is my equal not my slave.

What we do works for us, and apart from some ups and downs early in our marriage has worked for nearly 25 years of marriage.

Everybody elses mileage may vary.
 
#118 ·
OK Fella’s Listen up I have 40 years in my Relationship / Marriage (35 Married) I was looking to revive my stale marriage and took some steps to improve it First and foremost; I reconnected with my wife emotionally.

I improved my self-respect. I treated my wife like when she was my GF.I got my head out of my a$$ and acted like the man I was. I gave her Alpha when appropriate and Beta as well.

She was into reading the usual romance novels that are in the Top Ten realm. You know the ones. I gave her a healthy dose of that as well over & over and still.

This was before I read the book .As I read the book I would tell my wife each chapter and what she had to look forward to. (The author tells you not to tell your wife that you are reading it)

So a lot of his advice is solid. But on this forum I do get the sense that some posters are a shill for Athol Kay

The book is a bit oversimplified .But it does have some points to pay attention to. My Niece has just lost a significant amount of weight, going to the gym 3 / 4 days a week. Going to GNO. Well her husband has his head in the sand and will get a surprise as I see the Red Flags I will give him the book as a wakeup call at the very least
I have two sons I will tell them to read it as well
 
#121 ·
Yes, that's what I meant, Paladin.

There's a lot more that makes me shake my head in the book, too.

I'm married to a Sex God. I realize that saying this outloud makes me a target for being questioned as to my sanity, my vanity, or whatever. However, it is true. I am married to one of the men that have that natural thing going on. The kind that women flock to on a sexual level. It is fine with me if no one believes this, if they believe I am deluded, or whatever. It is still a true fact. (By Sex God I do not mean a creep, a dude who bangs chicks and leaves, or a guy who has bed post notches. I am talking about the Real Deal here).

Then here is this book, MMSL. A book that basically wants to help teach men how to be like my husband, a natural. So I read it based on curiousity of how close they came to how my husband actually is.

Phhhhttt.

My husband knows more about love, intimacy AND SEX than Athol Kay will ever know in his lifetime.

The main difference between my husband and what "those guys" are trying to be, is that my husband RESPECTS AND LOVES WOMEN.

He doesn't see women as the enemy who hold the golden p*ssy who men are supposed to try to "get sex" from.

Trying to "get sex" is the goal of MMSL, as far as I can see.

I understand why some men feel they want to "get sex". I understand some men haven't had luck with women or their wives and want to improve their marriages. I also understand MMSL may have helped a lot of marriages and so I'm happy for those people.

But when I read the book and Athol is trying to explain how these "naturals" are and how they think....I just had to laugh. Seems like the blind leading the blind to me.
 
#274 ·
It is an afternoon's read and should be viewed as such. Most of the advice is reasonably common sense, but there is no harm in that - most errors in marriage are stupid mistakes and habits and having the advice down in black and white is useful.

In my case, I read the book and it bascially predicted the marraige was doomed. It was pretty much correct.
 
#124 ·
There's love and there's also what catches their eye, their sexual interest and their attention. If you have love ontop of all of this, its just the finest gravy.
 
#128 ·
I guess maybe it depends on your definition of love. I love my mother and father. I love my children. I love my dog. But I'm not attracted to any of them (well my dog is pretty cute.) I think Athol's view of love is probably based heavily on attraction and the physical aspects of love. I tend to agree with you that I think there is more to love in an LTR. Strangely enough Athol's view of love is based heavily on Helen Fisher's work. And Helen Fisher's work was used to create the concept of (I think) Match.com. I personally dislike Match.com and all the other dating sites out there so maybe you and I tend to agree that definition of love is lacking somewhat in tangibles.
 
#129 ·
I don't really get your point. Why would a marriage book talk about our love for our dog? Obviously I am talking about ROMANTIC love, which there are literally thousands of books about, poems about, songs about, art inspired by, and is the thing that typically ignites a ROMANCE which then might become a marriage.
 
#130 ·
Because the concept of love that Athol bases his entire philosophy on is the "science of love." Of course calling it a science is somewhat of a trigger for some because it is debatable how much science has gone into it. It is not based on the "art of love" from which poems, songs and art gets its inspiration.

And you've never seen my dog so don't hate. :p

(obviously kidding)
 
#133 ·
I have read this book (re reading it right now) and in my opinion this book is not much different than any other self help / relationship whatever book you may find. There is some good, some bad and some Huh? just like all the rest.
There is not a book written that you can totally embrace cover to cover and say it is 100% right all the time (even the bible) no matter how much research is included most of it is still the author's opinion.
 
#136 ·
The book has worked great for many men that have come through here, assuming they are not lying of course. The proof is in the pudding.

I am assuming the detractors have read the book, ran the MAP plan and it failed miserably for them.

The reason the book is suggested is that so many men come here crushed and the first thing you notice is how they are being ran over by their wayward wives and their new boyfriends. It always seem to work out better for them when we can convince them to quit feeling sorry for themselves and start kicking ass.
 
#138 ·
The reason the book is suggested is that so many men come here crushed and the first thing you notice is how they are being ran over by their wayward wives and their new boyfriends. It always seem to work out better for them when we can convince them to quit feeling sorry for themselves and start kicking ass.
100% agree, and for this Chap, you are a saint in my eyes.

Like I said a bunch of times, it really helped cheer me up. Gave me a direction to move forward when my world was crushed.

I'm just trying to come to grips with this red pill reality that it's all such a game. And so far I'm not able to convince myself that it isn't and I hate that.
 
#141 ·
This is what I mean. The last two posts totally misinterpret what I posted and then argue against what I did not post. For one thing I did not say everyone. There are several different kinds of posters . No where did I or anyone else I have seen state that there is a one size fits all solution.
 
#155 ·
I just reread the posts in question to make sure I did not need reading glasses. The posts do not claim, although they could, that you said "everyone," because you said ".. the detractors of the book tried to run the MAP and failed..." that pretty much sounds like you say everyone that is a detractor, and like I said, I could have gone there but again, that was not the point of the post. As chris989 points out, the self pity comments are "insulting" and off-putting, and even if some people do benefit from "tough love" or "2x4ing," those tactics should certainly not be the first ones used to reach a BS in the BS fog. If a BS begins to feel like they are being attacked, they will simply put up stronger self defense walls and will be much more likely to ignore good advice and leave the forum all together. Alienating people and keeping them from getting good advice is at the core of the criticism.
 
#144 ·
If you guys think this argument over whether MMSLP is a useful book or not, is thatt tiring,
Then just try Google " How to build muscle."
You would get around 61,700,000 results and most are at variance with each other.
Yup , everyone argues that their system is best and the other one is rubbish.
Its the world some people live in, Black and White. No colours or hues between. Its either or.



BTW, Googled " Is MMSLP a good book?" and only got 4300 results

A lesson I've learned in life is simply use what applies and can help, and forget the rest.
If nothing applies to your situation,
Then the book is NOT for YOU.
 
#156 ·
Shadow Nirvana said: "I don't get what you're saying about it not talking about "LOVE". Neither the book or the blog needs to say "it feels like butterflies in your stomach" or talk about "the warm feeling you get when you hug you wife after a long day" ".


This is your opinion. Good for you.

My opinion is different.

Neither of us is right or wrong.

There are a lot of marriage books out there. Most of them DO talk more about love and DO take it as an important element of marriage...and do not just discuss "chemicals". My opinion is that love is a much more topic in marriage than "chemicals".

I appreciate we can have different opinions, I hope you can, too.
 
#157 ·
There are a lot of marriage books out there. Most of them DO talk more about love and DO take it as an important element of marriage...and do not just discuss "chemicals". My opinion is that love is a much more topic in marriage than "chemicals".
This marriage book, however, is about sex. The clue is in the title. Hence a lot of talk about sexual attraction, sex rank, getting in shape and "chemicals".

Thanks to this book (and TAM), our relationship is having a welcome renaissance since I never let a day go without letting my wife know I DESIRE her. Even from 5,500 miles away.

Love seems a bit wishy-washy in comparison. What am I/we missing out on FW?
 
#158 ·
I can only speak as a woman who is married to a Sex God....the reason he isn't just a "great lover" versus a Sex God, is that he not only understands sex, sexuality and desire BUT he is also aware that real love and intimacy are much more important and harder to achieve that just great sex. Sex is actually the easy part. I know that may not make sense to someone who hasn't experienced sex as the easy part...but it really is. Without the love and intimacy, great sex isn't going to make my eyes roll back in my head and make me express my undying love, devotion to and CONSTANT DESIRE for my husband.

But azteca....if "love" seems to pale in comparison to "desire" for you, then I guess you aren't missing out on anything. I'd just like to add that, for my Sex God husband, who has had all the great sex and sex partners in his life he ever wanted, love and intimacy trump sex ... and desire, well, that's just what happens when you marry someone you are INTO. Desire is no biggie. Desire is there or it isn't and if you are married to someone who isn't into you, it just isn't going to be there.

I understand MMSL is trying to help men get their wives to be into them (or rather, it is helping men trying to "get sex"). IMO, this is not the right approach.

But it is only my opinion.
 
#159 ·
I also want to say something real quick, because I'm pretty sure that some man is going to soon tell me that as a woman, I don't actually know what I want.

I do know what I want.

I want a man who knows how to f*ck my brains out and makes me beg for more. I want a man who is fit and healthy and can throw me around the room. I want a man who won't take my sh*t (and my husband also wants a woman who won't take HIS sh*t). I want a man who has his own life, hobbies, friends. I want a man that I can respect, who has a good career, doesn't play video games all day.

It is all in my blog.

But I know the mantra that the MMSL disciples always throw around in order to shut down a woman is usually "you don't know that your limbic brain controls everything, so you're just talking about sunshine and rainbows".

I just want to make it clear: my limbic brain most definitely decides who I want to have sex with, and I am very in touch with the animal inside myself. F*ck me silly on a regular basis, or you have no chance with me.
 
#160 ·
I want a man who knows how to f*ck my brains out and makes me beg for more. I want a man who is fit and healthy and can throw me around the room. I want a man who won't take my sh*t (and my husband also wants a woman who won't take HIS sh*t). I want a man who has his own life, hobbies, friends. I want a man that I can respect, who has a good career, doesn't play video games all day.
Typical, over demanding wife.

Do you even know how to make sandwiches?
 
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