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Married Man Sex Life Primer (AKA MMSLP) and you.

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#1 ·
Just started reading this book

I understand why everyone who read this book now says weightlifting and getting in shape is helpful.

I just started reading the book yesterday, I'm on page 79, part 6.10 ( no quick fix ).

For those that don't know
From what I am reading now and understand it talks about Alpha and Beta Traits and what to do, to improve those traits.

It also goes into a simple point rating system, like many guys and girls would say how do you rate that person on a 1 to 10..

Nutshell you have to be a higher point on the scale then your significant other. If your a higher point, then they want you. If your lower and don't look to improve your rating to be equal they will look some place else..

I would suggest you don't read it if your still crying over your ex and have no control. The first few chapters will definitely open up some old wounds and it can be tough for some. As an example the author mentions " I love you but not in love with you" and other comments how crying and begging making you weaker. For me it was like "Ugg, I shouldn't have done that"

But over all I honestly think there should be a thread on this book with suggestions related to the book as well.

But I see I need to start making a move to working out as I have some Alpha going but this is one I am lacking. Again just another trait in the Alpha column to check off.

I downloaded it to my Mac and my Iphone with the kindle app.
 
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#2 ·
It's only 1 week since DDay of my WW's affair. I spent all day with the book yesterday and finished it (although I skim-read the sex stuff as that's not going to be useful for me for some time if you know what I mean).

I found some parts were indeed difficult to read, but I definitely needed a jolt and a plan to start implementing immediately.

Today I compiled an action plan to begin immediate work on my sex rank.

Personally (for me at least) I think it's bitter medicine that should be taken as early as possible.
 
#123 ·
How is it going? With today's feministic mindset in America, many women will be the bosses in the space they reside in, doesn't matter if they are paying for it, or someone else is.

So you can Alpha all you want, she doesn't have to support it. But you should still do it for yourself. I'm reopining MMSL myself and getting to it.
 
#4 ·
It altered my view of the alpha/beta thing to the extent that it did "turn a lightbulb on" that it is unavoidably a part of who we are.

Like anything, it can be taken too far.

You get out of life what you put in.

I have heard from many women that a sense of humour and being trustworthy is a far more attractive trait than a sixpack, but I can guarantee that one gets you laid more than the other :)
 
#6 ·
Ok then, lets replace the term "Sex Rank" with "Being a Good Catch". Problem solved. Work on the fundamentals like fitness, body shape, career, ensure you have a good mix of alpha and beta traits, and now you're a better catch. Your wife is more likely to keep finding you attractive if you're a better catch.

Seems pretty logical to me.
 
#8 ·
LOL sadly many men believe that....what they forget is self-respect....being a good guy does not mean doormat or a puppy waiting to be pet....it means strong with self-respect but not abusive or arrogant..confident...I downloaded a copy of this book from amazon and am going to read it...remember if you are a "good guy" but a damned doormat you are useless...and no one will respect you..not your wife not other men no one....
 
#9 ·
The oversimplification of complex issues, as well as a "one size fits all" tone of the book being discussed makes it difficult to point out some of the positive aspects/advice contained within it. This book, and that forum in general, along with an extreme willingness of some members of TAM to resort to "2x4ing" in every situation, are the most common reasons stated by people leaving the forum or abandoning their threads. The limited critical reviews of this book point out the authors lack of citation, circular reasoning, and limited/simplified understanding of the works he uses as a reference material, as being its biggest downfalls. I try to always point out to those who cite this book as gospel that if the answers to a perfect relationship were in this book, TAM wouldn't exists, and the author would be a millionaire. There are some useful tid bits in this book, but as with most things in life, they should be taken with a pinch of salt.

For instance, the authors assertion that a "body agenda" exists, dismisses the possibility for co-equal relationships. He claims that in a crisis, the man leads, the woman follows, and I feel that is a gross oversimplification of how modern relationships function.

Anyhow, my two cents...
 
#11 ·
Interesting.

The author Athol Kay readily ackowledges that much of his research came from Dr. Helen Fisher, noted Anthropologist specializing in human behavior and sexuality. So I must conclude that you take great issue with her work as well, as aclaimed as it may be?
 
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#14 ·
Oh...so now you have to bring science and reasoning into it!

Thanks for the opinion, Paladin, you make very good points.

Go to another site (MB's) and you will see a similar blind devotion to one author's viewpoint and methods.

There are good, practical methods and advice from many authors, but there is no one-size-fits-all recipe for making marriages work or recovering from affairs.
 
#15 ·
I agree that nothing should be accepted as 100% truth and you need to be realistic with your expectations. For me MMSLP was a refreshing, unexpected, direct response that went against the grain from the vast majority of self help and marital self help books out there. It's blunt, it's crass, it's simple, but for many including me, there are many things that ring true. I'm reading it, taking what I need from it and combining it with His Needs, Her Needs and trying to get a better understanding of how I can improve my marriage. Yes, there will direct opposing advice you get depending on the source, but I'm willing to listen and see what makes sense to me.

My 2 cents
 
#16 ·
People age.. they get wrinkles. Going to the gym won't stop you from getting older..

Your spouse will also age..

Your spouse, as attractive as they might be, they more than likely aren't a supermodel, and they aren't a porn star.

Jumping through hoops to make yourself attractive so you can be hot for your spouse, also feels a bit like you're being needy. Get in shape for yourself, not because you're feeling this need to compete with an OM or have to all of the sudden become a model because your spouse strayed.

What if sex wasn't the issue? Say it was more of the other needs being filled, like if the spouses AP is actually less attractive, but perceived as more alpha because they are in the work environment, for example a boss. They talk more, spend 'quality' time.. They become 'friends' etc.. It's not always about sex or six pack abs.

Just some random thoughts...
 
#19 ·
And that is exactly the point that is primary in MMSL. Whatever you don't have enough of....add. I really don't like the simplification of Alpha/Beta. Men (and women) are much more complex. But I do understand why so many use those terms. Its so that people can understand the groups of traits that are being discussed. If you are too alpha, add beta. If you are too beta, add alpha. It sounds simplistic but the key is balance and that is one of the primary lessons MMSL tries to convey. As for going to the gym, making yourself more attractive etc. You're right that you should do these things not for your spouse but for yourself. And here is the really interesting part. It all has to do with building confidence. And confidence is attractive not to just your spouse but to everyone around you.
 
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#25 ·
A good rule of thumb for any self-improvement program is "no one book contains the silver bullet to solve all problems". Tony Robbins once said that even if he got one tidbit out of a book it was worth the read. The thing to do is survey the literature in the field and read multiple titles to see which patterns emerge. Some authors emphasize one thing or another but clear patterns of what to do will emerge. Self-improvement is a journey with many stops....
 
#31 ·
I figured I would chime in since I started this thread. I didn't want to light a fuse and then walk away. Not that anyone is saying anything bad either.

I do agree about the one size fits all comment. Everyone is different. The world is filled with rich, in shape, good looking men and woman that get cheated on by their spouses.

So yes I agree my ex didn't leave me for a six pack of abs. She left me for a 54 year old 5'2" man with no money or a good job and that didn't have six pack.

In many ways today I am grateful she downgraded instead of upgraded as it would have killed me much more. At least now at a weight of 238 from 310 at 6"3" and having both kids wanting to stay with me as she lives in her small apartment that she can hardly pay 1800 a month for, I can look down a gloat a bit.

I have more money today then when I was married.

For me I've taken several classes in interviewing and interrogation, I've taken our department homicide course that is pretty much used by many agencies country and world wide.

Though I sort of understood the Alpha Beta thing I didn't grasp what might be something that were considered Alpha and Beta.

Again I know friends that could pick up and meet woman just about anywhere. It was amazing, where as I would have women tell me they liked me and I would understand it she was telling me she wanted to be friends.. I was slow in the uptake 20 years ago, what can I say.

Look getting into shape isn't a bad thing. Even if it takes a book to tell you or convince you that you will get 1 point out of it. There is nothing wrong with being healthy or trying to get into some shape. Who cares what motivates you as long as you do it and stick with it.


But I did Beta up when my wife was looking to leave. But it is probably that Beta that caused my kids to want to stay, at least my oldest. I think I won the youngest over just on account his older brother was here as was the dog, me and his grandmother. Plus I play xbox with him this other man doesn't. Let alone take him out anywhere.

But I honestly like to hear both sides as that opens up my eyes as well.

Look anything to make me a better man, father or a person I would be happy to hear about and try.
 
#32 ·
Look anything to make me a better man, father or a person I would be happy to hear about and try.
I bolded the something great there Hardtohandle.

I don't worry about "actively" impressing my wife. In other words, it's not something I think about.

I DO focus on what you said.

I focus on being the best man and father I can be.

I figure, if I'm the best man and father I can be. My wife will swoon over me.

Nothing is less sexy than a man TRYING to be sexy. LOL.
 
#38 ·
I think it was Athol Kay that said that when faced with a cheating spouse, the beta man tends to become more beta and the alpha tends to become more alpha. I tend to agree. When I found out my wife was cheating on me, I became the opposite of a doormat. ..
yet she still didn't respect me. Why not? Because she had decided she was dumping me for OM, and her entire strategy revolved around not looking like the bad guy. I wasn't down with that strategy, therefore I became the bad guy in her eyes.
 
#40 ·
I asked my stbxw once that if any of these other men wanted her then why haven't they come and taken her? Why haven't they come to confront me for supposedly treating her badly?

I said If I had wanted a woman so badly, I would do anything to get her, why aren't they?? I could even help OM pack her crap and help both of them move her out.

I think it's more about they were afraid, afraid they were only fighting for sex, I would be fighting for my kid's, my wife, my life, my house, everything. I think that passion would have led to some problems for OM.
 
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#42 ·
I read the book and liked it. I also like evolutionary psychology, finding the research and writings extremely interesting. The rational mind (the human) tends to win over the primal (the animal) in most people in most cases, I think. and a person with strong character is able to put the former in solid command over the latter.

His practical advice is pretty good, overall. I agree with others here that his advice could just as easily flow from the premise that a person's sense of their dignity - self respect - should be as strong as possible. Such a person - the ideal - shows zero tolerance toward acts of humiliation, infidelity being the prime example. The "180" is a pattern of behavior that someone with strong self-worth will naturally fall into in the face of infidelity - possibly even in the face of boundary crossing by their spouse. And 'practicing' high self-worth behavior can lead to a stronger sense of self in the long term, I think.
 
#43 ·
I think my stbxw put's more effort into not looking like the "bad guy" than into anything else. Also she left me with the kids fulltime but still wants to play "super mom". Example- "My girls are now in highschool, I'm so proud of the way I've raised them"
Uh, Honey I had a little something to do with that as well.

She is all for show, I always thought If you have to tell people how you are then you usually aren't.
 
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#53 ·
Just started reading this book

I understand why everyone who read this book now says weightlifting and getting in shape is helpful.

I just started reading the book yesterday, I'm on page 79, part 6.10 ( no quick fix ).

For those that don't know
From what I am reading now and understand it talks about Alpha and Beta Traits and what to do, to improve those traits.

It also goes into a simple point rating system, like many guys and girls would say how do you rate that person on a 1 to 10..

Nutshell you have to be a higher point on the scale then your significant other. If your a higher point, then they want you. If your lower and don't look to improve your rating to be equal they will look some place else..
How exactly is that going to work successfully in a relationship?
How can you both be a higher point rank than the other?
Because if you're the high rank, are you not yourself going to go looking for someone else?
Seems like a paradox to me.
 
#54 ·
I agree, but I think there is a morality in there somewhere.

Look I'm no fashion plate. But I have been offered sex by woman and never took them up on it. I was thousands of miles away from my wife and I never did anything. No one would have ever known.

It just not in my moral code. I seen what it did to my mother at the age of 12. I loved my wife too much to put her in that much pain. I couldn't stand to see my wife cry. Heck, when my wife cried during us fighting about her affair I felt bad.

But as Bfree mentioned I am one of those guys that did let myself go. I fell into a rut at work and at home. We were penny wise but pound foolish. The kids had what they wanted and had no issues, but we should have done more things as a family.

Sadly and I say it openly admitting it, Today I am half way the man I should have been a year ago. I'm a 38 waist and a extra large in shirts. I haven't been this size since high school maybe..

I failed on my end. Does it equate to cheating on me and leaving me and the kids? I don't know.. I don't think so. Maybe others will think differently. Maybe she feels I would have never have changed if she never did this.

Again I don't know because she won't speak to me or my older son who is 13 years old ( why him I have no clue beyond she is ashamed of what she did ). She also cut out her entire family as well. Which leads me to the belief she is ashamed.

Its funny because as a cop in a big city I have seen many things in my career, I've had fights with bad guys, ran toward gun battles, saved people from fires. I felt I didn't have to prove myself because I did what many people couldn't do. I have put myself in harms way for other and only afterwards did I reflect back and go "whoohoo" that was close or reflected with my partner on how it could have turned out bad.

I just didn't think I had to be Alpha with my wife. I figured she knew I would do what was needed to protect her and my family even at the cost of my own life. But I can see like was said some spouses get that and understand that, but others do not.. It just isn't enough for them for some reason..
 
#68 ·
Azteca,

I agree with you about the alpha/beta terminlogy. Its too simplistic but I understand the reasons why it is used to illustrate points. Plus even when using the terminology more alpha is not necessarily better and in fact as I've stated before its all about balance and that is the primary idea that the book tries to get across. If anyone reads that book and sees it all as "add more alpha" then they really haven't read it well. Even when you go to his site you can see there is just as much information about adding comfort (beta) to your relationship as there is about "manning up (alpha)." The sex rank things is really being taken out of context. The idea is not to up your sex rank so it reaches some arbitrary level or number. Its all about staying attractive for your spouse and not letting yourself go. And its just as important for women as men. Why do women wear makeup? Why do they wear tight fitting clothes? Why do they get their hair done? Its all about staying attractive. All Athol is saying is to make sure you are working as hard to be attractive to your spouse as he/she is working to be attractive to you. Its not even about the beauty in general. Its about the work that goes into it. If my wife worked very hard to be/stay beautiful to me and I in turn got fat, wore stained T-shirts and walked around in my torn boxers how would she feel? Like she was trying and I was not? That is the lesson with sex rank.
 
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#71 ·
Azteca,

I agree with you about the alpha/beta terminlogy. Its too simplistic but I understand the reasons why it is used to illustrate points. Plus even when using the terminology more alpha is not necessarily better and in fact as I've stated before its all about balance and that is the primary idea that the book tries to get across. If anyone reads that book and sees it all as "add more alpha" then they really haven't read it well.
If your aim is to have a fulfilling marriage and bring up your children well you'll have to find balance. Each trait has positive and negative aspects. Money, status and the respect of your peers has to be ballanced with the ability of telling bedtime stories with accompanying amusing voices. Comforting your wife and enjoying a dynamic sex life. It's all about balance



The sex rank things is really being taken out of context. The idea is not to up your sex rank so it reaches some arbitrary level or number. Its all about staying attractive for your spouse and not letting yourself go. And its just as important for women as men. Why do women wear makeup? Why do they wear tight fitting clothes? Why do they get their hair done? Its all about staying attractive. All Athol is saying is to make sure you are working as hard to be attractive to your spouse as he/she is working to be attractive to you. Its not even about the beauty in general. Its about the work that goes into it. If my wife worked very hard to be/stay beautiful to me and I in turn got fat, wore stained T-shirts and walked around in my torn boxers how would she feel? Like she was trying and I was not? That is the lesson with sex rank.
I agree. Nothing in the book is the be all and end all. The models are simplistic, but that's the nature of a book that has to have mass appeal to be a commercial success.
 
#72 ·
The book was great at cheering me up while dealing with the trauma of infidelity.

The fitness test part was the most critical for me, I have failed every fitness test ever thrown at me, because of ignorance.

IMO Alpha = psychopath while Beta = a man with no higher purpose

I think "The Way of The Superior Man" is a better book. In it the more important concept is raised which is that a man should have a core purpose that is higher then his relationship. This is what is lacking in all of the beta's around this place as far as I can tell.

When a man has a passion that he goes after with intent, when he is focused on what he wants and doesn't let anything get in his way, he is unshakeable.

Alpha or Beta, a man with no passion is a walking corpse.

When my marriage failed I felt like my entire world was crashing down on me.
 
#85 ·
I started a thread on this months ago and gave up in the end; I tried to assert that the scientific method should be applied to anything purporting to be science, but this was lost in the noise.

I gave up before others did because life is too short, but the book is quite seductive and I do think there is a kernel of truth in there somewhere.

Try as I might, I have failed to find reputable scientific studies to either confirm or deny Mr Athol's writing; I did begin to mine the information on here that goes back for years but gave up as I found what little faith in humanity I had was being flushed down the toilet of life.
 
#87 ·
Wiserforit,

You seem to be hung up on the science behind the book but Mr. Kay never claimed to be a scientist nor did he claim that his "method" was in any way scientific. All he did say was that much of his conclusions were based on the work of Dr. Helen Fisher. Something Dr. Helen Fisher said seems to express the ways that both you and I see this.

"You can know every single ingredient in a piece of chocolate cake and still sit down and eat it and feel the joy."

You are more interested in the ingredients and method of making the cake. I on the other hand understand how the cake is made but I can set that aside while I enjoy the taste.

Athol started out as a poster here on TAM and his search for answers led him to some conclusions that he found helpful. He was encouraged by others here on TAM to start a blog so he could share his ideas. And while writing his blog he was encouraged by his readers to compile a book based on his writings. The fact is that his writings have helped many men and women to take control of their lives and improve their marriages. In the end I believe that is all that truly matters.

We will have to agree to disagree I guess.
 
#88 ·
Wiserforit,

You seem to be hung up on the science behind the book but Mr. Kay never claimed to be a scientist nor did he claim that his "method" was in any way scientific.
Calling it the "Science of Attraction" isn't a claim that it is science? I wasn't born yesterday. My eyes are working just fine. :rolleyes:

Calling me "hung up" for inspecting his own assertion is pretty manipulative. As if I was weird and crazy for checking into an author's primary claim.


"You can know every single ingredient in a piece of chocolate cake and still sit down and eat it and feel the joy."

You are more interested in the ingredients and method of making the cake. I on the other hand understand how the cake is made but I can set that aside while I enjoy the taste.
WTF. More silly analogies instead of talking about the text. You are like a butterfly lost in a cave, with little bacteria on the wings who wish they were angels. I'm more like a retired boxer.

Athol started out as a poster here on TAM and his search for answers led him to some conclusions that he found helpful. He was encouraged by others here on TAM to start a blog so he could share his ideas. And while writing his blog he was encouraged by his readers to compile a book based on his writings. The fact is that his writings have helped many men and women to take control of their lives and improve their marriages. In the end I believe that is all that truly matters.
Thank you. You admit it is irrelevant to you whether his so-called science has one whit of truth to it.

We do not have any study on the effectiveness of this book in marriages. Anecdotal evidence, but the only kind you are willing to accept is positive anecdotal evidence, and discount entirely any negative.

That's the way cults work.


We will have to agree to disagree I guess.
Yes. We agree on that.
 
#89 ·
If you are married to a bi polar, a histrionic or a BPD woman then Athol's book is for you.

If you want to pick up a bi polar, histrionic or BPD woman, then study game.

If you want a relationship with a healthy person throw that shi!t out and find a woman who wants to work on herself and is focused on that and then get to work on yourself with her.

This is a real book.
 
#92 ·
Or if you have been freshly adulterated (is that a correct term?), been told ILYBNILWY or any of the other things that occur here, then MMSLP is a good wake up call and serves a purpose by pointing out what should be glaringly obvious facts.
 
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