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Coping with Infidelity Relationship recovery from the destructiveness of infidelity.

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Old 10-06-2013, 05:10 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default spine building thread

Thought it might be good to put ideas in this thread for spine building. After reading the posts for quite a while, I am noticing a common issue in the bs's.
Is there a better way to make them see how their lack of spine is so much a part of the damage done and the continuation of the damage going forward.
From lack of ability to out the AP, to making their WS behavior public knowledge, to the 180. They just have no spine. I understand and honestly do sympathize with how hurt they are, I truly do. This is why I want to brainstorm a better way of approaching getting them to see the err of their ways and the simple fact that so many of us know that the only real way to lift the fog is to expose and the only way to get them to honestly begin to R is through no contact and a BS ability to perform a a successful 180.
Time and time again, we are up against those who think the nice guy/gal approach will work. Time and again they hear the proven advice and choose to repeat a proven to fail approach.
Seems like insanity to me.
No one on here has ever rewarded their dog for chewing their shoe. Why reward a WS with being extra nice and "trying harder"?

Post any thoughts or ideas you may have or experiences you have.

Please do not fill this thread with, how hard it is and how damaged you are during...blah blah blah. I would like to make it more clear for people that are the weaker ones emotionally, to make it more obvious how this works, and how being nice is actually them choosing to allow the behavior with out realizing it and are indirectly encouraging it IMO. They are rewarding the dog.
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Old 10-06-2013, 05:35 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: spine building thread

I get it....but in my case, I am sorting out what I need in the event that we divorce which is possible. please see my very recent post..sad and vengeful.

I am a business owner and have lots of 'spine' but I am trying to be practical...

I almost feel that I have no control over what my husband does and a confrontation would produce an array of events that I am not ready for. Every day I am talking myself down and resisting the confrontation until I feel prepared which will be in 2 weeks time. I understand that anything can happen within that time but am hedging my bets. I guess I'm a very strategic person.

Thanks and look forward to further discussion.
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Old 10-06-2013, 05:51 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: spine building thread

interesting topic.

I haven't been in the BS position , but I look forward to reading the responses.
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Old 10-06-2013, 06:24 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: spine building thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by nogutsnoglory View Post
Thought it might be good to put ideas in this thread for spine building. After reading the posts for quite a while, I am noticing a common issue in the bs's.
Is there a better way to make them see how their lack of spine is so much a part of the damage done and the continuation of the damage going forward.
From lack of ability to out the AP, to making their WS behavior public knowledge, to the 180. They just have no spine. I understand and honestly do sympathize with how hurt they are, I truly do. This is why I want to brainstorm a better way of approaching getting them to see the err of their ways and the simple fact that so many of us know that the only real way to lift the fog is to expose and the only way to get them to honestly begin to R is through no contact and a BS ability to perform a a successful 180.
Time and time again, we are up against those who think the nice guy/gal approach will work. Time and again they hear the proven advice and choose to repeat a proven to fail approach.
Seems like insanity to me.
No one on here has ever rewarded their dog for chewing their shoe. Why reward a WS with being extra nice and "trying harder"?

Post any thoughts or ideas you may have or experiences you have.

Please do not fill this thread with, how hard it is and how damaged you are during...blah blah blah. I would like to make it more clear for people that are the weaker ones emotionally, to make it more obvious how this works, and how being nice is actually them choosing to allow the behavior with out realizing it and are indirectly encouraging it IMO. They are rewarding the dog.
OK. I get it! Your way is the only way!

And then you really dial up the hubris levels by saying: "and I don't want you folks who disagree with me sullying my thread with counter-arguments."
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Old 10-06-2013, 06:27 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: spine building thread

Some guys react weakly because they are in shock, they eventually get their balls back. The others are lost causes. They are usually conflict avoiders, who have been defined by their wife and marriage. Marriage should enhance your life not define it. It's sad to see. Their wives always know how they will react on dday and it enboldens their choice to cheat. One day our sons will look back wondering what were we thinking.
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Old 10-06-2013, 06:33 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: spine building thread

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Originally Posted by daibai View Post
I get it....but in my case, I am sorting out what I need in the event that we divorce which is possible. please see my very recent post..sad and vengeful.

I am a business owner and have lots of 'spine' but I am trying to be practical...

I almost feel that I have no control over what my husband does and a confrontation would produce an array of events that I am not ready for. Every day I am talking myself down and resisting the confrontation until I feel prepared which will be in 2 weeks time. I understand that anything can happen within that time but am hedging my bets. I guess I'm a very strategic person.

Thanks and look forward to further discussion.
Definitely understand you being in stealth mode to get all ducks in a row. Think it takes a great amount of spine to do it that way actually. Most with out a spine, blow up at the AP but then fold like a house of cards once the blame shifting begins. Sounds like you are not interested in R with your S.
I wouldn't be either, it just pains me to see how much further damage is done post DDAY to the victims. If they just had a rule book and a clear understanding of why they must follow it. If only we could give them a crystal ball to see how the decisions they make from DDAY on truly control the future for themselves. Instead they seem to allow the WS to be the determining factor. Why let a moral criminal have control over your life? Especially once they are showing the denial, the lies, the trickle truth, etc... Just do not get them coming here and getting the same advice over and over, then reading others in similar situations also getting that advice, reading the success stories of the ones that implemented the program and how that worked for them, and decide regardless of the over whelming evidence that they are different..
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Old 10-06-2013, 06:38 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Caribbean Man View Post
interesting topic.

I haven't been in the BS position , but I look forward to reading the responses.
Dang. I held my breath there when I read the first twelve words. I thought you were going to end up saying, "but I look forward to when I will be."
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Old 10-06-2013, 06:39 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Not sure about this, but due to the percentages of nice guy syndrome we see in the BS's. Is it more likely than not there is a type of personality that certain people have, that lends its self to eventually being cheated on..? Could just be a major coincidence, not that I am a big believer in those.
Certainly not trying to cast blame on those that were betrayed or saying they deserved it. Just a theory. Kind of like the elderly are easy to prey on for certain things, maybe those with nice guy syndrome are just a bit naive as they are always thinking they are in the wrong and need to change and not aware of it actually being more the unfair needs of their partners that is the problem.
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Old 10-06-2013, 06:59 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: spine building thread

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Originally Posted by nogutsnoglory View Post
Not sure about this, but due to the percentages of nice guy syndrome we see in the BS's. Is it more likely than not there is a type of personality that certain people have, that lends its self to eventually being cheated on..? Could just be a major coincidence, not that I am a big believer in those.
Certainly not trying to cast blame on those that were betrayed or saying they deserved it. Just a theory. Kind of like the elderly are easy to prey on for certain things, maybe those with nice guy syndrome are just a bit naive as they are always thinking they are in the wrong and need to change and not aware of it actually being more the unfair needs of their partners that is the problem.
We get skewed results, here, at TAM. So attempting to hypothesise from these results cannot work.

All the nice guys/gals we see at TAM were cheated on.

But does this mean that all nice guys/gals get cheated on?

No. It just means that all the nice guys/gals on TAM were cheated on.

And why are these nice guys/gals here at TAM? Because they were cheated on.
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Old 10-06-2013, 07:06 PM   #10 (permalink)
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[QUOTE=MattMatt;4718242]OK. I get it! Your way is the only way!

And then you really dial up the hubris levels by saying: "and I don't want you folks who disagree with me sullying my thread with counter-arguments."[/QUOTE

HUH?
Matt, I have seen you on here a lot. I know you went through hell.
I am clearly asking for others to give ideas of how to show people they need to find strength in their weakest time in order to get what they want (what ever that is). I have no "way" to do that. I have seen, heard and read as I know you have about the constant "nice guys" being walked all over. It has shown to not work the high majority of the time.
My way is not the "only way" as you say. I am a bit unclear with your spew as to what exactly it is you are disagreeing with.
You are clearly mad at my post. Read the others that commented and realize how you are talking what I said is not at all what I am saying. I am looking for others opinions and clearly am asking for that. What I said I do not want this thread to be about is that nice guys are so hurt blah blah. If they want to write that they can start their own post. This post was to find a way to make them see the light. I am sure there are a handful of people that simply playing the nice guy worked for them. There is undeniable evidence on TAM that this is not the best route to take. It more times than not leads to false R.
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Old 10-06-2013, 07:12 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by MattMatt View Post
OK. I get it! Your way is the only way!

And then you really dial up the hubris levels by saying: "and I don't want you folks who disagree with me sullying my thread with counter-arguments."
Why did you put the above in quotes, when you are not quoting me?
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Old 10-06-2013, 07:18 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I think a lot of it has to do with the first thing that pops in their head which would be "Oh my God my life is going to change and I don't know if I can." Ending a marriage is really hard because you can't go from loving someone with all your heart to hatred in a split second. Some people need to digest what has just happened and need time to process it. I don't know of anyone who has a clear mind when their gut punched with the news that their spouse has cheated on them. Some of them think it's a bad nightmare and they will wake up from it. Some are just lost because they can't believe that their spouse made love with them the night before, told them that they loved them as they headed out the door and then hit with the news that it was a lie. That's a hard pill to swallow.

Then you have the people that would be satisfied for 50% of nothing and be grateful because they fear being alone. What they don't understand is 50% of nothing is still nothing and there is a big difference between being alone and being lonely. Different strokes for different folks. Some people will stay and continue to be humiliated and some will throw the cheater out the second they find out.

The ones I feel so bad for are the women who are SAHM's have three or four kids and she has no income of her own so she stays for her children, puts on a good face for the kids and cries herself to sleep next to the loser that can't keep his pants up. That has to be the most miserable life you can have.
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Old 10-06-2013, 07:47 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I think a lot of it has to do with the first thing that pops in their head which would be "Oh my God my life is going to change and I don't know if I can." Ending a marriage is really hard because you can't go from loving someone with all your heart to hatred in a split second. Some people need to digest what has just happened and need time to process it. I don't know of anyone who has a clear mind when their gut punched with the news that their spouse has cheated on them. Some of them think it's a bad nightmare and they will wake up from it. Some are just lost because they can't believe that their spouse made love with them the night before, told them that they loved them as they headed out the door and then hit with the news that it was a lie. That's a hard pill to swallow.

Then you have the people that would be satisfied for 50% of nothing and be grateful because they fear being alone. What they don't understand is 50% of nothing is still nothing and there is a big difference between being alone and being lonely. Different strokes for different folks. Some people will stay and continue to be humiliated and some will throw the cheater out the second they find out.

The ones I feel so bad for are the women who are SAHM's have three or four kids and she has no income of her own so she stays for her children, puts on a good face for the kids and cries herself to sleep next to the loser that can't keep his pants up. That has to be the most miserable life you can have.
I agree completely, I am sure all you say is the truth. I just wish for the crystal ball to show them what one chosen path moving forward will give them and what another chosen path would give them. Seems they all have the strength in them, just most do not realize it. Even those SAHM's that come on here go for months and years putting on the face you describe and eventually they get to the point they can't do it any longer and they find a way to do something different eventually (almost all of us have that breaking point). It is then they find the freedom, and from that further strength they have been lacking. Then and only then, they put their own needs in front of the line and then their lives begin to improve finally. Just want to come up with a way to make it easier to see, so they can save themselves the pain of the unnecessary length of time of getting to the point of putting their own needs first.
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Old 10-07-2013, 01:51 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I agree completely, I am sure all you say is the truth. I just wish for the crystal ball to show them what one chosen path moving forward will give them and what another chosen path would give them. Seems they all have the strength in them, just most do not realize it. Even those SAHM's that come on here go for months and years putting on the face you describe and eventually they get to the point they can't do it any longer and they find a way to do something different eventually (almost all of us have that breaking point). It is then they find the freedom, and from that further strength they have been lacking. Then and only then, they put their own needs in front of the line and then their lives begin to improve finally. Just want to come up with a way to make it easier to see, so they can save themselves the pain of the unnecessary length of time of getting to the point of putting their own needs first.

Too many different situations, personalities and other factors to come up with a cookie cutter approach.

In my own situation I did not see clearly. I think there is a process that takes place in some BS'ers over time. You really can't rush it.

In my clinical counseling practise, I have a guy whom I have talked with for many sessions, we have talked about his obsessive and compulsive behavior, then out of the blue, last week he told me he figured out the he has "Obsessive Compulsive Disorder", after he read an article on the subject. WTH, we have been talking about this for months and he just now sees it, not because of hearing me talk to him about it, but from reading an article. I told him, "You don't listen very well". After he left the session I sat in my chair figuratively scratching my head.

I would also suggest that nobody can predict the end game, when it comes to infidelity. There are just too many variables.
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Old 10-07-2013, 02:04 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Too many different situations, personalities and other factors to come up with a cookie cutter approach.

In my own situation I did not see clearly. I think there is a process that takes place in some BS'ers over time. You really can't rush it.

In my clinical counseling practise, I have a guy whom I have talked with for many sessions, we have talked about his obsessive and compulsive behavior, then out of the blue, last week he told me he figured out the he has "Obsessive Compulsive Disorder", after he read an article on the subject. WTH, we have been talking about this for months and he just now sees it, not because of hearing me talk to him about it, but from reading an article. I told him, "You don't listen very well". After he left the session I sat in my chair figuratively scratching my head.

I would also suggest that nobody can predict the end game, when it comes to infidelity. There are just too many variables.
I agree with the variables, but specifically tying the finding out process, to the steps a BS takes for themselves in what ever they want. Sure the WS is a huge variable here, but that is an exposure necessary for the BS to see as well, so they can make an informed decision. If one party or the other is not willing to do the needed heavy lifting then of course none of this really matters as the relationship is dead in the water.

I think it would be nice to show the ill effects of trying to "nice" your way through it. Or blaming yourself for the marital issues that sent your spouse looking for another. Maybe a TAM pamphlet of sorts that lays out successful R, versus non. Possibly on this site they could breakdown CWI and have smaller subsections you can click on like, nice guy, doormat, 180 in progress etc... So the options and people trying the different ones are more clearly defined so a BS could come here and really match up what they are going through with how others are handling it and how that is working or not for them. Sure each person needs to look at any thread with the knowledge that all relationships are different.
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