tamara24

I have read your thread and was waiting to see what has happened. Let us know what you found out. I am sorry this has thrown you for such a curve. I have only had one partner in life and we are now at an impass. One of my reasons for not leaving as I love the idea of having the only one partner. Your wife is missing out. Even if the excitement of the affair is what is keeping her there, it will get old. Keep working on yourself. Your trying new things and liking it!That is great! Don't stop that. She or her friends will notice and she will see what she has missed out on. I commend you for making the effort to trying by adjusting your schedule. I am just starting to read the books that you have mentioned in your threads so I am not an expert. Have you went out on a date? I realize that you don't want to get a divorce but I am thinking she is with another man, why not go out for a dinner date with somone that intrests you? Not as a intimate date but just for fun. I would somehow make sure she new that you were going out and unavailable to her. A little jealousy doesn't hurt even if it is just a friend you take out! If she calls you on it, you can say it was just a friend. You do not need to explain to her when she is doing more than dating. You might also find out that she is not the only fish in the sea and that there are plenty of womaen out there that would love to have a man who is willing to change for her! I think once you realize how much work you have put into this and very mature about it, I might add. I think you might have some second thoughts on how wonderful she is. Trust me, there is somone that will appreciate you for who you are!

jar

Affaircare...I understand everything you are saying. I really do...The problem is I have been figidity and impatient the past few days because I don’t feel like things are getting back to her. Our families live hours apart...We both have different circle of friends and very few couple fiends...I am living away from home. So aside from the occasional face book post she hears nothing about me. That is what I have been struggling with.

The reason I joined this forum is so that I could read about other situations and also have people comment on my situation...It helps me gain fresh perspective on things I might otherwise not thought of.

I really appreciate people taking the time to read my story and comment.

Rosado

You are right...I ask my self every day exactly what you wrote. I know what I have written about my marriage and my wife and all of our dirty laundry...It looks terrible why on earth would I want to stay in marriage like this...Many people in my life say the exact same things to me. Especially when the other half wants out. You also only have my perspective on our situation...I admit I have not been the perfect husband...I have hurt my wife deeply...If my wife were posting her story it would be much like flowers and tamaras. I accept my part of our problems and I am going to change.

Pete

I think you are correct as well.

tamara

Thank you for the kind words and encouragement.

I could go on and on for pages and debate each and everyone’s point with examples from our marriage and our situation. But I am not...I don’t have the energy tonight.

My explanation for wanting my marriage is simple...I love my wife deeply...She is my wife...I made a vow and commitment to her and I intend to keep it. The day we were married I was confident I wanted to spend the rest of my life with her…Lets just say things turn around there is the risk this could all happen again. I am willing to take that risk….Until I feel I have exhausted all options I am not going to give up on her or our marriage. I won’t quit until I have nothing left in me. I am doing this for myself and for our marriage. I can’t just walk away with out exhausting all options. I am not ok with that. That being said who knows what tomorrow brings…Tomorrow may be the day I through in the towel. That is my justification and explanation right now. This is what I told myself this morning when I was asking myself am I crazy…Many people think this is just nuts.

JAR

tamara24

No Jar.

I do not think you are nuts. When I met my husband, I knew he was my soul mate. He knew everything about me and I him. He made me feel safe and that was what I desperatley needed. Later in our marraige, I found notes from female coworkers in his work stuff,he had an emotional affair that I found out about on my birthday. I still gave him a chance. Even when he he was diagnosed with ADHD and couldn't cope with our children crying or being loud, I have stuck it out. But now his love hurts ore than it gives and I see that with you. She hurts you more than she gives to you. When you love someone deeply, you would never sacrifice that relationship for NRE,for anything. Before this happened, regardless of your relationship prior to the OM, would you have ever considered an EA? Absolutley not! Because you are faithful to the bone and you made the committment. If she felt that way about you, she wouldn't have considered it either. People change. When someone is lonely for such a long time, it makes you think what you missed. She should have shared that with you before it was too late.You changed your hours of work just for her, that says a lot about the person you are,and shows how much you cared. I am not saying end it. I am saying keep an open mind. You are the one that has to ultimately make the final decision. Just make sure it is really the right one for you. Sometimes we love things that are not really good for us and we have to let them go so that we can grow and be what we should be. You are being way to kind and patient,but you have to decide when enough is enough.

Affaircare

Actually I am VERY glad you posted this Rosado, and I would be happy to consider exactly your scenario..as you wrote it.

"Consider for a minute that 2 people got married because of an unexpected pregnancy and decided to do "the right thing" by marrying. They may have never been "in love" but just trying to make the best of a situation."

So two young people got together and had at least enough physical attraction to have sex. Maybe they did not know each other very much and were not infatuated, but for any number of reasons, including being drunk and using that state of inhibition, they have sex. As a result, the lady becomes pregnant. Using your own example, the two people are AWARE of the pregnancy, she tells him and does not abort, and together the two of them make a conscious decision to consider the needs of the child ahead of their own selfish wants. They make an informed decision to voluntarily form a family unit for the raising and support of the child. And there is no reason I can see that they can not make just as informed, just as voluntary conscious decision to consider the needs of their spouse and treat their spouse with love and kindness. Thus, I see nothing here precluding these two people who did not previously feel "infatuation" to consciously decide to work on having a happy, content relationship with each other.

"A few years and maybe another child later, one or both of them realize that they're missing something and can no longer just "get along". They are wanting more personal fulfillment and/or be with someone out of desire and not obligation."

As previously demonstrated, these two are able to put the needs of their family and children ahead of their own selfish wants. So they think of the family they volunteered to raise and support, and they think of the spouse who has been with them through thick and thin. The one who is "missing something" makes the conscious decision to still honor their vow and show their family love but GOING TO their spouse and saying, "I am missing something." The two of them discuss how they are having trouble getting along without fighting or the fact that the one spouse doesn't really want to just be there with no purpose and no meaning. They discuss the personal fulfillment that the one spouse is craving, and through a mutual united understanding, they figure out ways for that spouse to FIND that personal fulfillment. If it is a lack of desire--they agree together how to rekindle the desire and lust in their relationship. If they don't know how to discuss these things, they find a pastor, coach, counselor or mentor of some sort to help them. The commitment is not threatened, and they continue to honor their word, which says "I volunteer to forsake all others for you, through all that life send us, until death."

"I'm not advocating an affair, by any means but they tell their spouse that they respect them but the love is never been there and they want out. They did nothing wrong,but now the partner launches into this full scale mission to convince them to stay. Using strategies from books, websites, etc. Is that fair?"

Love is not a "feeling" because feelings/emotions come and go, and change with the seasons. Love is an action. Love is treating your spouse in a loving way. Love is when your spouse treats you in a loving way. Soooo...since these two put their own selfish wants to the side for the good of their child, and made a conscious decision to come together to raise and support their new family unit....then yes, it is fair. They are perfectly capable of deciding, again, to ACT in a way that is loving toward their spouse. They are perfectly capable of choosing to act, AGAIN, in a way that honors their commitment to each other and putting their own selfish wants aside. They are perfectly capable of using the strategies, books, websites etc. even to recreate the "feelings" of lust and desire and romance and affection!

I believe this would be a great analogy for you, Rosado (and for Jar too, as this is indeed his thread). Suppose you go to the doctor because you have an STD--it's syphilis. The treatment for syphilis is penicillin...every single time. The treatment does not change depending on if you got it during the daytime or night...nor does how MUCH syphilis you have change the treatment. Now, the WAYS that a person got syphilis can be varied and may indicate additional illness or weaknesses or require additional resources and referrals. But you can't change the fact that if you have X --you cure X by doing Y. Furthermore, some doctors are specialists who can tell the difference between syphilis bacteria A, and syphilis bacteria Q...and other doctors are more generalized and do know that curing syphilis = penicillin but don't know all the various brands of the STD.

It's very similar here. The treatment for an affair is the seven steps, every time. In this instance it may not "cure" the affair but it is the most effective treatment and has the highest likelihood of treating it. The treatment does not change depending on the individual circumstances of what lead up to the affair...now does it change if you SAW your spouse nude in bed or if it was an EA. Now, the WAYS that a marriage got involved in an affair can be varied and may indicate additional illness or weaknesses or require additional resources and referrals. But you can't change the fact that if you have affair--you "cure" infidelity by 1)Taking 7 Steps to End the Affair, and 2) Taking Steps to Rebuild a New, Healthy Marriage. Furthermore, some counselors specialize in just this area and know the different types of infidelity and some subtle differences, but many counselors are more general "marriage counselors" and can also deal with areas like parenting, financial difficulties, sex in marriage, etc.

I would agree with you that it is absolutely true that the people in his life know both of them better than we do. They know him and his limits. They know her and her weaknesses. Their absolutely may be some merit to their assessment. But are they doctors? Even though they know the couple very, very well and may even know their health somewhat...would you go to the family to ask them, "Is this arm broken? You know them." Probably not, because they didn't really study medicine and may or may not be able to tell and if they could tell, may or may not be able to know what to do to FIX the broken arm. Same here. They may indeed recognize that it's broken, but chances are that their only contact with either infidelity or divorce would be if/when it happened to them...and they may or may not have done a very good job? It makes common sense to listen to BOTH: the people who know you very well, and the person who's an expert at AFFAIRS.

__________________
Helping couples recover and reconcile after an affair or keep their marriages affair-free at Affaircare.

The 180 * Coping With Infidelity Newbies--Please read this!

Rosado

Thank you affaircare, for taking the time to respond to my post. I certainly do not discredit your reasoning nor your approach to fixing affairs in marriages and other LTRs. I am not an expert on affairs, neither on how they start nor how to end them. So you get no arguments from me there. My only contention that is that not all marriages are born out of love like we would like them to be. As I said before, people get married for all kinds of reasons, pregnancy, drunken trip to vegas, running away from bad family life, societal expectations, money etc.
Now if there were some real basis of love between the couple at the beginning of the relationship, then I agree that through various steps, programs and coaching it can be rekindled and even survive an affair. But what if love was never part of the equation? As much as we dont want to admit it, some marriages dont begin with that key ingredient. If there is no foundation to return to, then it probrably wont work. If it did, then you could almost take 2 strangers put them through the programs and expect their marriage to work.
I disagree with view that individual relationships shouldnt be handled on a case by case basis. Treating the couple with regards to their specific situation doesnt have to exclude the use and success of the affair proof programs. Though I am not an affair expert, I think we will have to agree to disagree on generalizing every couple. Admittedly, marriages fall apart and affairs happen for different reasons, so to acknowledge that the cure may require different strategies is not too much of a stretch.
By the same token, acknowledging that some marriages are mistakes from the very beginning is not unreasonable. We all make mistakes, some big and some small. Hindsight is 20/20. Some people can work and fix their problems right away and be successful, some never acknowledge their mistake and continue to live a lie to please someone else, and others try to fix it and fail and have chalk it up to a learning experience.
I just dont think the "Never say die" mentality applies to ALL situations. Just my opinion, anyway

BTW: I'm not referring to the OP situation when I said some marriages are mistakes. I was just generalizing Please dont take anything personally.

jar

Well like I said I had a call the other day with Dr Steve Harley. Harley’s son.

I have a need for more answers and needed some additional coaching. Like I said in my previous post I needed some coaching to stay positive and I felt I had dug my self into a rut and I could not see a logical good next step. I didn’t want to just play the waiting game. I have a need to feel like I am doing something.

I also called because my therapist is great at helping me through my emotional stuff and also exploring my emotions but she really can’t help me with coaching me through this affair stuff. Our mediator is basically a divorce lawyer and she can’t help mediate reconciliation. Our marriage therapist we stopped going to several weeks ago. Our marriage is her client and because the wife and I are in different places she can’t help us any longer. So like I said I decided to go to the source. The people that wrote the book

I think what Harley had to say will give many of you some new perspective on things. I got a lot out of the call. It was very positive so here goes.

Keep this in mind when reading this…Harley doesn’t see himself as pro marriage he is pro happiness…this is an important concept to grasp.

He explained this to me after I explained our general situation to him.

Our marriage has two problems the first is the Affair the second is a marriage that has problems and is not working for both of us. So the approach is two steps. The first step is to deal with the affair stuff. Then deal with the marriage stuff. Makes sense and I guess I already understood this.

Steve explained that no matter how sweet and loving I am. No matter how much I change for the better. No matter how much I listen to her issues and problems and make changes for the better. As long as there is an affair going on and she is emotionally connected to someone else she will never see or appreciate any of my efforts. It is part of the addiction and the fog. He explained it is about her and it is very selfish. Again I guess I understood this because I have experienced it first hand. To her our marriage and relationship is like hunting unicorns…How can you hunt something that doesn’t exist. This is how she feels about our marriage and relationship.

Steve also explained that it was important for my wife to begin researching her feelings and understanding her emotions better. She needs to read the books and the websites etc…Basically do everything that we at TAM do. Until she educates her herself on these subjects she won’t be able to deal or cope with the affair, marriage, or another relationship. The same problems will come up again and again.

My question to Steve was what can we do to get some positive dialog going back and forth with me and the wife and maybe begin making some deposits in the old love bank. At this point when me and the wife meet it is at mediation and while I try my best to not do any love extinguishers the meetings are confrontational.

Going forward Steve recommended that we define the following together.

Goal
Requirements
Plan
Execution

Goal: To be in a marriage or relationship that we both enjoy bring part of. (Note I didn’t necessarily say with one another even know this is my goal)

Requirements: In order to define the requirements you need to do some research. This is the part where I recommend to my wife that we do some research. I recommend to her reading x y and z etc. Hopefully after we have both done some research we can come together and intelligently discus what we have learned and define what the requirements are of an enjoyable relationship.

Plan: In this stage hopefully we can sit down and plan how we can both achieve our goal and fulfill our goals requirements.

Execution: This is the part where the rubber meet the road, Execute the plan. Sounds so easy and logical right.

Some of you my be wondering what the point of all this is. I know I did. It’s a way for my wife and me to start a meaningful honest conversation. It is a way for us to do some work on ourselves and identify our needs and wants as individuals and share them with one another…Most importantly it is a way both of us can make a few deposits in the love bank. Hopefully if things go according to plan some of the fog will lift and my wife will begin to understand what would make an enjoyable relationship for her. At this point more than likely my wife will realize the OM shortcomings and that her affair really isn’t fulfilling her needs either. Now hopefully my wife will also begin to see me and some of the positive changes I have made. Hopefully she will see that I am trying to do some work to figure things out and the OM is not offering any such thing.

This next part is something that really made a lot of sense to me. It is only natural for my wife to want to have a meaningful marriage that she enjoys being part of with her husband. That would be the ideal scenario. Hopefully her first husband and that would be me. Makes sense right. Harley even says that once the dialog gets going that this would even be ok to say to my wife.

So I said to Steve this sounds really all fine and great and makes sense but how on earth am I suppose to get my wife to work through this exercise…Steve says my wife will at first will look at this exercise as me trying to get her to come back. At that point I am to say that I am working with him and that he instructed me to do this exercise and thought that it would be a good idea if I asked her to join me and help me complete it. The exercise is to help us as individuals. It is designed to help us understands our needs and wants. It is designed to educate us. By saying this it takes the pressure off of the marriage and focus’s on us as individuals.

This exercise gives us some structure. He pointed out that this is what our marriage counselor might have been trying to do to help us as a couple. It just may not have been so clear at the time. He also pointed out that we by passed an important step in therapy and that was dealing with the affair. We just kind of didn’t talk too much about it and tried to put it behind us because it was to pain full for us both. Harley says this is ok but we missed another important step in marriage counseling it wasn’t clear what the goal was and it wasn’t clear that my goal was the same as my wife’s and that both parties had buy in.

So again this exercise brings basic structure that can be applied in to almost all aspects of everyday life. It brings structure and hopefully a way to deal with this affair and away for us to begin working on our marriage.

I just need to figure out how to get the ball rolling do I start by emailing her, calling, suggesting a meeting etc…Not sure I have to think on this for a few days.

This is a ton of info and I hope that it can help a few of you that are struggling with what to do next

JAR

iamnottheonlyone

Jar, Thank you for the info. I think it was worth every penny you spent. In regards to you arranging a sitdown with your W, I have the "natural" excuse to get together: a child. And in principle my wife has agreed to a regular meeting to discuss communication, finances and logistics. However, I think you need another mechanism that won't seem like a scheme. What can bring you two together naturally? Who has the dog? Is there work around the house that needs to be done? I am sure you will hear from the "Pros" and our friends here with some suggestions.
I am printing out your thread to study it. It is interesting that Harley says he is a happiness counsellor. When my wife did her one session of counselling with our therapist I was afraid she would be a happiness counsellor...."Do what makes you happy!" Running away from a relationship that worked isn't finding happiness it is running away from a problem and things that hurt. Infatuation brings fleeting happy feelings but does mean you will be happy.
I would not like to direct my wife towards any of the reading I am doing as it might be useful to her in her affair when it begins to breakdown. Does that sound a little crazy? I don't think I can suggest anything to her right now that wouldn't seem controlling to her.

Affaircare

Jar, I think your meeting with Steve Harley was productive and showed you a few concrete steps you can take to start "doing something" again, which is excellent. It sounds like you have an idea now to contact your wife and say that a personal coach you are seeing suggested an exercise for you to complete, and that the exercise has some questions about her so would she do it with you? This removes the pressure of "trying to get us back together" so that's a GREAT suggestion.

The part I quoted above I think is one of the main differences that Affaircare has with MarriageBuilders. Yes, not every marriage can be saved. Yes, we work toward the person recovering so they can be a better spouse--hopefully in this marriage but if need be, in the next. BUT Affaircare is very firmly pro-marriage in that we believe that very often the happiness is created IN THE MARRIAGE, not by leaving. In other words, our order of priority is: 1) Honor your covenant and save the marriage and 2) Create happiness within the marriage. I PERSONALLY think if a person can create some measure of happiness just by being a person who is faithful to their word and who honors their promises, and at least to my mind, if you pursue "happiness" first, then you walk that fine line that makes a Disloyal Spouse slip: "What about MY happiness? I deserve to be happy!" We believe that is actually a backward way of looking at it: we don't love so that others can "make us happy"...we love and create our own happiness by being loving and treating others in ways that make them happy. Does that sort of make sense? And if you add the component of pleasing God, we don't live so God can make us happy--we live to please Him and THAT is what brings happiness to us no matter what the circumstance.

Here's the way I see it though. There are many associates and colleagues out there who do GREAT work and save many marriages. MarriageBuilders, DivorceBusters, FireProof...they all have a place and all contribute to the bigger goal of saving marriages from infidelity.

__________________
Helping couples recover and reconcile after an affair or keep their marriages affair-free at Affaircare.

The 180 * Coping With Infidelity Newbies--Please read this!

jar

Affaircare I really do understand your position as well as Harleys. You both make a lot of sense. I am hoping to combine the best of both worlds. The statement above I agree with 100 percent. I may never have been able to spell it out so elegantly (writing is not my best skill set) but this has always been my outlook on love, marriage and relationships. At this point I believe that my wife’s outlook is completely opposite of that.

What is your outlook at contacting my wife? I feel like I have got myself in a pickle here. Let me explain why. I am working on myself and doing some carrot and stick kind of stuff. But at the same time I am also doing a no contact sort of faze. I should have probably got more advice from the folks here before I did what I did. But bottom line my wife is still in an affair and is moving quickly towards divorce.

So in terms of contact seeing how we have no children there is not much of a mechanism left for discussion. We share a dog at this point I am supposed to get her back for a few weeks next month. During mediation she brought up the fact she wants my fish tank out of the house. So I agreed to take it down next month as well. I am sure there a ton of things that need to be done around the house and one source of contention is the lawn and the broken mower. But if I go over and start tacking care of these sorts of things I am conflicted. She is in an affair and it has been recommended to me that she needs to understand what it is like to deal with life with out me in the picture. Right So I felt like I needed another mechanism for initiating some conversation or do you think that I should remain silent.

I guess lastly I have heard nothing from my wife for 11 days. The last time was a few txt message about the splitting the cell phone bill. Something I requested she do during our last mediation session. So today I received an email. It really has me wound up. So here it is.

******************************************
I have removed my number from your ATT account, ATT wanted me to let you know that you will have to call them or go online to tell them what you want your plan to look like. Right now they just give you a standard plan, whatever that means.

Also I was wondering if you have thought anymore about being ready to mediate further with me, about bigger items, such as the house.

Thanks,

*******************************************

At least it wasn’t a text message. We do have a mediation session penciled in for the beginning of Aug. I did say I probably would not be back to mediation during our last session because it was not moving in the right direction.

The other thing that has me going is last night at midnight my wife posted on face book that she had an enjoyable day at the beach. One of her friends wrote back and asked where she had been. I assume this is because no one is really hearing from her. The other interesting thing is the beach is at the local lake where we go boating. This lake has been our summer retreat for the past 5 years for us and is a special place. All of our friends meet us there in the summer and go boating with us. So I wonder if those same friends met her at the beach or maybe she just went with the OM. Either way she went to a place that is near and dear to our hearts and is a place we have always enjoyed as a couple.

So lastly my brother and I leave for a 10 hour drive at 4am to meet up with my family for a week long reunion at the beach. It is going to be fun and is a big part of my child hood. My wife was suppose to go and was looking forward to it up until several weeks ago. I wonder if she is still taking the time off work. All of my cousins are big face book people so I am sure through out the week they will be making comments and uploading photos to face book. All of this is something my wife will be able to see.

I don’t know if any of this is a good sine or not. I all I know is it really has me torn up in knots. I don’t think I plan to contact my wife for a while I have a lot to think about this week. Hopefully all of you can continue to lend me support on what to do. Affaircare thank you for writing that article it is so tuff not hearing from her. I am over thinking and analyzing everything. I just know that I have made some mistakes throughout all this and I we are on a very thin rope. One wrong move could drown us.

Trying to think happy thoughts...

JAR

jar

So one last thing I wanted to post. Yes my wife has had some internet EA stuff going on and off throughout our marriage. I was devastated but at the time neither my wife nor I understood that this behavior was considered a type of affair. Although we did some repair work I don’t think either one of us understood how major something like this really was. We were both naive on so many levels.

iamnottheonlyone

That was a polite email from your wife. Other than ageneral response I don't think I would agree to anything. You could simply and politely restate your case as you did at the last mediation. Nothing needy. Even mention it was nice to hear from her.
Although Harley's suggestion is attractive, I hadn't put myself in your shoes. I can see how thinking about this would wind you up. Sorry about that. I do see that if you want contact you have several avenues. Delay is our friend. However, incidental friendly contact can remind her of what is missing. You have some thinking to do. No rush. I will think about it too. It certainly is worth hearing from others.

Affaircare

Having been in your wife's shoes, I have no doubt that is exactly the case--she most likely thinks more along the lines of "making myself happy" is priority #1 and if that's at the expense of the marriage? Well marriage is priority #2 if it's that high. Plus, having been disloyal myself, there is a point at which something inside your head sort of snaps and says, "DAMMIT I'm tired of trying! I want happiness and I want it now! Someone else owes that to me!" and it's a completely self-focused point of view...as if the Universe OWES you one!

Well I personally see no reason to NOT contact your wife. That I know of, you are in Plan A/Carrot & Stick and you did not send her a letter for the beginning of Plan B/Consequences. I see nothing preventing you from inviting her over to your new apartment for dinner or a movie...except that she'd likely say no. There is just one small glitch/hitch and that is, you are in fact still her husband! So maybe you could try mailing her a card or sending flowers.

Also, for cmf we sort of discovered that one of her Extinguishers was having expectations and not saying them out loud...for IAM we sort of discovered some financial Extinguishers that put others ahead of his own wife. What were your Extinguishers? What put out the flame of love that you two once had? If you want to make progress you will have to admit them, figure out what to change and how, and then SHOW her with your actions the changes.

Jar, remaining silent is partly for you and partly for her. It is partly for you because being involved in the drama of your wife being with another man is too painful and what happens? Love Extinguishers leak out! You yourself said that you have a tendency to get forceful right? So that would not be a positive experience and would convince her that's why she needs to leave you. And it is partly for her because the affair is fantasy! She had it built up in her head that the OM would "complete her" and he would know her every need and meet it before she even had to communicate it. Well we all know that's not real, but she learns it by experiencing it. She learns it because the OM doesn't mow the yard either...or fix the mower. You can fix it and you can mow, but she is the one who made the choice to leave you and go to someone who can't/won't do it!

That being said, what are some options? Let's brainstorm ways you could add more options for contact: What if she were to hire you to fix the mower just like she could hire any other repairman to fix it? You are her husband, so what if you were to send her a love note on her FB wall every day? What if you mailed her a smooshy card? What if you wrote her a poem and emailed it to her? Those have to do with Kindlers...so what if you wrote on your FB every day the things you did to address your Extinguishers? (Like writing on your wall: "Read a book about anger today. It said XYZ and that really got to me because I know I did that.") What if you contacted her family, your inlaws, and invited them to dinner just because you are still their son-in-law? What if you started an online journal like on LiveJournal.com that was all about your struggles--both sorrow in her leaving and ways you still love her? What if you started a page on DeviantArt.com that was art or poetry dedicated to her?

As you can see, there are MANY ways you can contact her and it can "get back to her" and most of it requires some effort on your part.

Sooooo...if she removed her number from your AT&T account, that means your AT&T account has/is changing and they don't know how you (the account owner) want it configured. For now they are giving you a basic account. She is giving you a 'heads up' to contact them and tell them if you want added features, etc. AND you are no longer paying for her to be in touch with other men over the phone--she is responsible for that now.

I believe the appropriate response would be:

"Thanks for the heads up about the AT&T account. I appreciate your taking responsibility for your choices. I will contact them and let them know how I'd like to set up the account. Again, thank you.

Regarding mediation over bigger items, the only big item I choose to mediate is how to recover our marriage and reconcile. I do not choose divorce and thus do not believe the marriage is irreconcilable or over. Have you thought anymore about being ready to mediate further with me about creating a loving, happy, passionate marriage that honors our vows?"

It's not unusual at all for a DS to cut off communication with any family who disapproves, friends who disapprove, etc. Many/most stop their usual activities and relationships with people and basically surround themselves with unhappy people who encourage them to divorce, or who indicate that the affair is "the right thing." That's because they want to justify what they know is wrong and can't bring themselves to admit their behavior to those who knew them before! That would burst the affair bubble...if they spoke to a friend who knew you both and the friend said, "I knew you both and I'm sorry but you two were NOT unhappy! You two were loving and this is so unlike you!"

...AND I encourage all of them and all of you to actually publish things on HER wall! She needs to know they miss her--she needs to be reminded that you WERE happy and that it was fun--and this is that contact I was telling you about that "gets back to her." If your family is willing to do it, ask some of them to even post a pic on her wall and say "We miss you, wish you were here, look how much fun we're having? Where are you?"

Jar, FYI that is not true. You have already made several wrong moves and yes it is costing you at the moment, but this isn't something that can't come with some mistakes. See the issue is not "don't ever make a mistake again." If it were, you'd be sunk! The issue is "don't make mistakes and sweep them under the rug or leave them unresolved." The issue is "don't make a mistake and repeat it." The issue is "don't make a mistake and rather than admit it, deflect and blame someone else." Make a mistake--go ahead. Then apologize, empathize, explain what you'll do differently so it doesn't happen again...and offer safety.

Yeah, no worries. That's pretty common actually, and some people even have an affair like THIS and still don't do the work to actually understand or change. They go back to "the way it was" and sadly that way was a way that lead to an affair. So what happens? Another affair.

__________________
Helping couples recover and reconcile after an affair or keep their marriages affair-free at Affaircare.

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jar

Once again you have given me much to think about....

I have confused myself in the past week or so. I guess here is why…When I left my wife I felt like I had spent months playing the best A game I could. When I left I felt like that meant that I went in to plan B. A week after I left I sent my wife a letter explaining why I had left and needed to distance my self from her. In this letter I made it very clear I could not continue to support her emotionally financially etc as along as she continued her affair. I conclude the letter explaining that I was un wiling to really speak with her unless it was through our counselor or a mediator…I explained that if she ended the affair and severed all contact with the OM then I would be willing to discuse things out side of mediation. I concluded that if she ended the affair I would be willing to accept her back into our marriage. I asked her to respect my wishes etc…So basically she has respected my wishes I gave her a few options and she has chosen not to end the affair.

So this is why I thought I was in plan B mode. This is why I have also been silent. Maybe I am really in plan a and my letter was more me defining my boundaries.

I think that while I am on vacation I am going to send her a postcard. Something with a simple message letting her now I miss her. Hopefully this can open the door to a bit more dialog and even lead into Harley’s recommendation. I am more than willing to do all of the items you recommend. I just feel strange doing these things. I especially like some of the face book things because others will be able to see these messages and so will the OM. I think I am going to wait on responding to her email until I return home. I do like your recommendation.

I am on vacation with my family tonight was pictures with all 50 of us on the beach with a photographer. It was nice to see everyone. All of us are here except my wife. This kind of get together only happens at wedding or funerals. I really miss my wife a ton and think about how much fun it would be to have her here. My family misses her as well. I would have like to have some nice beach pictures with her. She was looking forward to this trip. Luckily my family is being ok…Only one of my aunts has drilled me with the 20 questions. I am keeping all conversation about us very simple….Also looks like my wife has this week off from work as well…

So I have been working on the love extinguishers and kindler questioner as well as really trying to identify my needs and her needs. When it comes to her needs I am having some trouble because towards the end it seems like she was complain about every thing I did and nothing was write. I guess I believe her biggest needs are conversation, quality time, and passionate affection. She needs to feel connected. She complained of lonleyness...She would just say the OM was there for her…The dog was there for her…This is based on me reading between the fine lines of all her complaints. She also complained a lot about how she felt like everything in our life was on her shoulders. Like planning, bills, household things, etc…She felt like I didn’t worry about these things as much and it bothered her. She also felt like in a way that I should be a mind reader and she had certain expectation and that I should just know what she wants or how she feels. I am struggling a bit on her needs just because it seems like everything was a problem. Figuring this stuff out is taken me a while I have been working on it more than a week now.

So August is a big month because I am supposed to go home for the first time and deal with my fish tank. It is also our anniversary this month. When I am home I will have the opportunity to deal with the lawn mower and some other things if I choose. Maybe all of these will help and be love kindlers. I have a while to figure things out.

Thanks
JAR

Mom6547

What does that mean? How can you prove a feeling false?

So what?

NRE stands for new relationship energy. It is the feeling one can get when one is in a new relationship. It is the feeling that most people experience in the dating stage. I felt it with my husband. You probably felt it too.

It sounds like the idea of an alternate way of doing things threatens you for some reason. I don't know why this would be. I am not sure why you would need to endorse or not endorse someone else's lifestyle choice. Obviously you are not interested in polyamory. I would be curious to see what evidence you have for the sweeping comment that humans are mono by nature. Only very recently in the history of marriage has love had anything really to do with marriage. For much of human history it has been about property rights and children.


My reason for bringing this up to the OP was for him to consider that perhaps his wife was not a good investment of his energy as she seems to like to have new men around.

turnera

That is my life, and I DO hate my husband for it. If I try to get him to even discuss anything, he snaps at me and says 'Not now!' So I end up having to make all the decisions myself. Stereotypes aside, I wish I had a man taking charge; instead I got one who's driving us into bankruptcy with his negligence. She probably felt the same way. I know a lot of women who voice this same complaint.