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So why do cheaters cheat?

23K views 270 replies 47 participants last post by  calvin 
#1 ·
Focusing a little on the other side, I'm sure everyone wants to know this.

Can anyone give their educated opinions?
 
#65 ·
There is no easy answer to this. Are there sociopaths who act without guilt? Sure but cheating is far too prevalent for all of them to fall under this.

Relationships are hard and people are not perfect. Impulse control is a tricky thing...think about how many times you ate more then you wanted or chose to watch tv instead of worked out. We know what the right decisions are but don't always make them. On this board I think cheaters are vilified the same as people who rape, murder, etc...while cheating obliviously sucks the cheaters are simply flawed just like everyone else.
 
#67 ·
Pretty simple really. Cheaters cheat because they want too. Also, they no longer respect their betrayed spouse and no longer value their marriage. Also, most cheaters have poor boundaries and are conflict avoidant, have poor coping skills and many are passive aggressive.

But in short, they cheat cause the want too. They cheat cause they can. Really no matter how good or bad you are as a spouse. They will cheat if they want too.

They don't change, not really. They just might get better at hiding it.

Like the jay-z line goes- 'you are what you are player. You can try to change but that's just the top layer'

Just my opinion tho, I'm not really well versed in the thought process of a cheater, cause you know, I don't cheat lol.
 
#72 ·
Thank you, SH. :) My partner met me halfway. She has really stepped up, too. (Neither one of us thought we'd be able to pull this off with how bad things were, but we surprised ourselves.) A good number of the WSs I see on here posting are trying to understand what went wrong within them and how to do what they can to help their BSs. They don't always say or do the right things, or have it all together at first or completely "get it", but I think if they weren't chased away, they could learn a lot and do the same. Granted, there are those who come here who aren't remorseful or are defensive, angry, and trying to justify, but they're more the minority. I think reception makes a difference with whether some of the WSs can be brought around.
 
#83 ·
Liars lie, cheaters cheat. That is their nature. We don't expect evil to play fair, do we? Of course not. The nature of evil is inherently...evil. Like the guy who was eaten by the tiger he kept in his NYC apartment, the tiger was in the end, being a tiger.

"Book 'em Lou. One count of being a bear. And one count of being an accessory to being a bear." -- Chief Wiggum arrests a bear and Barney, "Much Apu About Nothing"
 
#101 ·
I will say this though, I never have a problem with anyone starting a thread for the purpose of discussion. Now if Daisy is sitting back trying to get research for a book or something, no big deal to me. IMHO, this is one of the better threads we've seen in CWI for awhile. Having a mostly civil discussion sure beats watching the mob trying to dismantle someone over something he/she said or did.
 
#137 ·
I think it is one thing to cheat and then realize the mistake and work to fix it and then there is I cheated and I might as well destroy everyone and everything in my way getting out..

What I have come to discover is people make mistakes and unless you have a good therapist you will NEVER figure out what is the root of the issue to cause this behavior.. So the cycle repeats itself.. Granted some people can self fix and know what was wrong, others can't..

I can't begin to tell you how self destructive I am in relationships atm.. Only because the woman I am with now loves me and wants to understand and wants to stick around to help me am I with someone.. I'm a Betrayed Spouse..

Trust me I make mountains out of mole hills. I connect dots that shouldn't be connected.. I make fantasies a reality..

I can only imagine how screwed up my EX is.. She closed the door on me, our 13 year old son, her ENTIRE FAMILY... It doesn't take a rocket scientist to tell you something is very wrong.. Of course this Other man is so stupid or just happy he has the hottest woman of his life, he just don't care what issues she has.. But he will soon enough I would imagine..

But even I will say that everyone plays a part in the affair.. I know my shortcomings and what I should have done.. I just didn't. It doesn't justify an affair and it certainly doesn't justify the horrendous abuse at the end.. But I can look back during those times after the affair and remember the retarded things I told my friends.. The retarded thoughts I had as well..

Sometimes its like those movies where they show a chain of events that usually wouldn't matter until on this day it does..

We lose our way as a couple and its our jobs together to find our way together again.. Waywards sometimes can't, don't know or refuse to do this.. Its different for everyone..
 
#146 ·
I have been a lurker on TAM for several years now. I joined an posted originally when my now xH discovered my affair. I had no intention of staying in my marriage and was looking for ways to help him.
We have since divorced, I am remarried and he is in an LTR which will most likely become a marriage after I finish paying alimony in a couple years. I received some very good advice when I came here.
I wish to this day that I could have gotten my H to come here at that time. He probably would have received a ton more help and support than I could have imagined.
I quit posting almost immediately, because for all the good advice I got, there were twice as many comments telling me what a terrible person I was. I was ready for some of that, but not the extent of what it was.
I KNEW what I did was wrong, I still know that and that has changed who I am forever. I think the biggest issue when I posted originally was that I admitted that I did not want R, and my H did not have a choice. I think that made me seem like I was not remorseful. I was very remorseful, but I was also very much done.

In the long run, what I did was still and will always be wrong and there is no suitable explanation for it. Trying to explain will always be read as trying to justify. We are both in a better place now and in healthier relationships, but I will always be "broken" in my own eyes and in the eyes of those who I hurt. I know the "why" is important for the BS to try and process, but I don't believe "why" can be summed up except by selfishness.
There were a ton of problems in my marriage and I tried for many years to fix things. My H probably owned about 90% of the problems in our marriage, not the 50% people like to use as a standard, but in the end, I should have left without cheating an d now, that decision, that choice, will be a part of who I am for the rest of my life.

Apologize for the length, for any typos and hope there are paragraph breaks... posting from my phone and not sure how this is going to look.
Posted via Mobile Device
 
#148 ·
The above is pretty much what I have found. I have been met with hostility with every post and apparently don't understand the betrayed. I thought this was a place for all sides of infedelity but I guess not. I am done here...I meant no harm and good luck to you all. I understand people being bitter but I hope some of the people here who are stuck in a very black and white view of this topic can break that cycle.

As a person who screwed up, took responsibility, and has been a better man for a long time now and has a stronger relationship now I thought I had something to offer but I fear some posters don't want to hear the other side.
 
#149 ·
Both my partner and I did and said things to damage our relationship. For that, we are both responsible. But I do not and have never held her responsible for my cheating. Were there internal processes that contributed? Yep. Did the badness of our relationship and the way she was with me fuel them? Yep. Was that on her? Nope. That was because something was wrong inside of me. I did not cope or react in the right way. She didn't earn it, she didn't deserve it.

See, most of us former waywards know this and acknowledge it. If we try to explain what went into that internal process that led up to the cheating, we are not justifying, excusing, blame-shifting, feeling entitled, saying it was just because we could, or whatever else you might want to sling out there. We are explaining. The question "why" is asked SO often on here, but there are plenty of angry BSs who don't really want to hear the explanations. They just want to condemn on a personal level and stamp a generic derogatory label on all waywards. (Which does...what? It's just venting anger and aggression.) But for the BSs or other people who DO want to listen, those angry ones spoil things, because they keep detracting from the threads with posting things that contribute nothing to the conversation. It is not helpful, even if it makes them feel good. And there are plenty of threads already out there for that purpose - "why we BSs despise WSs, remorseful or otherwise". I think JCD is right that said hostile BSs do not want TAM to also be a place for remorseful waywards to discuss and seek help. They seem to want it to only be for the betrayed. But in some cases, helping a wayward will directly help the betrayed, too. Those who want to reconcile, namely. Even the waywards who come here not getting it. If only more of the BSs would talk to them instead of harassing and insulting, the outcome would be far better.
 
#150 · (Edited)
But in some cases, helping a wayward will directly help the betrayed, too. Those who want to reconcile, namely.
I think the Betrayed Spouse should come here to learn about themselves as well.

I think for some this is the only form of therapy they have..
When a angry and bitter betrayed tells you fvck your WS and tells you to make sure that your WS is beaten into the ground for leaving.. The reality is they want you to do what they couldn't or wish they did with their Wayward Spouse..

But because your so fvcked up yourself you see this as good info.. Again like having a bad therapist..

For me after 11 months I can see much more clearly and I can say without a shadow of a doubt, there are many Betrayed Spouses on here that have not moved an inch since D-Day..

It just isn't healthy on so many levels.. Trust me when my therapist tells me I need to control myself or I will never have a good relationship or that I will eventually figure it out but I will burn through so many relationships until I figure it out.. You never know when that one person might come along.. Why do you want to chase them away because some other person fvcked you up..

My middle brother had a drinking problem.. He had a girlfriend that loved him.. I remember her breaking up with him and saying goodbye for good, she just couldn't take his drinking. She told him no one will ever love you more than I do.. That was probably 20 years ago..
She recently posted a picture of an actor on her FB page that looked like my brother.. I commented on it. She said she still loves him till this day..
My brother has been dead for 4 years.

I listen when the therapist takes the time to talk to me candidly.. I don't want these issues myself anymore..

Just recently on the life after divorce forum one poster almost 2 years into this is still wondering if he should take back his wife...

I won't deny that I might be rushing into things dating wise and relationship wise., but even I know getting my ex back will never be a good thing. I compare it to being a reformed drug addict.. The yearning is there but you know its just no good.
 
#151 ·
HTH, I applaud your posts in this thread. I think this forum becomes much more valuable as a place to heal and learn when everyone is honest with themselves. There are a variety of reasons for why infidelity occurs in relationships and there are a variety of types of people who succumb to cheating. Some cheaters are broken people who come into a relationship with a void(s) inside them that is up to them to fill. Others come into a relationship whole and later start to experience a void. Then they seek to fill that void. I think the latter type of cheater is by far the most common one out there in real life. It doesn't even mean that the BS in these situations are always the responsible one either. Sometimes a WS cheats as a reaction to a bad spouse, but other times a WS spouse cheats as a reaction to something bad that happened to him/her during the marriage that could be completely separate from how their spouse acted in the marriage (like a death of a child or parent, post partum depression, etc).

I think the only sure thing that can be said about infidelity and why someone cheats is to fill a void that they find within themselves. You are ultimately responsible for keeping yourself "full". I think where people lose their way is when they rely on others to fill the void for them, and when they despair and get to the point of hopelessness (in reaction to whatever the problem is), then they are susceptible to stumbling and cheating. If you are a narcissist, you are trying to fill a void in yourself thru the fawning affection of others. If you are depressed, you are trying to find your happiness from others and not relying on yourself to find your own happiness.

This is probably too simplistic, but it is probably the best "model" as I understand it. Those who can find their own happiness and fulfillment in life will likely have those strong character traits to be good people. Those who tend to rely on others to make them happy are more likely to stumble and fall into bad situations.
 
#152 ·
I get what the BS are trying to say. Occasionally I find myself doing or saying things which, when I take a step back, I say 'WHOA! You can NOT go there!"

So maybe there is something damaged inside of me.

BUT!

I am developing the ability to step back and reassess the things I say, do and think. I am better able to identify these danger situations. I have coping mechanisms to try to make these issues less dangerous.

So...the BS might be correct that I am always 'at risk'...just like an alcoholic.

BUT...I doubt the BS would say to just throw away loved alcoholics One can become a reformed alcoholic after all. Why can't one become a reformed cheater?

Some BS won't take that risk. I can understand that. But I would suggest that there is a vast difference between avoiding that situation and standing on a podium screaming at the evil alcoholics. Anyone looking at that situation would think that such a spiteful person was damaging someone who needs help.

Q.E.D.
 
#153 · (Edited)
I have been trying to catch up on this thread. It is a very interesting discussion.

There are times when we get caught up in saving the BS from the WS. There are times when we see the same words from a new WS posts that we have heard from our own WS. Triggers happen. It is a vicarious rollercoaster for sure.

Absolutely the pain we experience should not be projected on the WS who dare post. We need to stick with constructive advice, and glean the things they say to help us understand what was in the minds of our WSs. Easy to say, difficult to do.

I find myself sharing empathy for the newly betrayed. It is often a way to gain their trust. We feel what they have felt. We often get them angry to act. It seems that the type of people that come to TAM (me included) need to find the anger to cause them to act constructively.

My frustration is with the perpetual suffering of the unhappily married. It is not my business, but a D would end it for many. A bad marriage, or a bad R is worse than a D, IMO.

Cheaters cheating? Probably there are countless reasons. Cheaters I know have shared parts of their stories. Cheating isn't the end of the world. What tells me about a person is how they grow, or change once the cheating is exposed.

Cheating is a tough fear to overcome when it has happened in a merciless way. Will lightning strike us twice? Time will tell. The ultimate goal is to pick a spouse that won't cheat. Then it is our responsiblity to not have bad behavior that will allow them to have a "reason" to cheat. Finally, when they do cheat, we need to give them a chance to reap consequences for their own growth. This, imo, is usually done by D.

My exWW is a better woman now than she was 3 years ago. I would like to think that the D was the best thing to help her grow. It was for me. ;)
 
#154 · (Edited)
To answer the original question posted:

Why do people cheat?

Well the answer is complicated and highly individualized. In aggregate people cheat for many reasons. Those reasons may be justified, or justifiable or unjustified or unjustifiable.

Unless and until you are privy to what goes on behind closed doors in the marriage, you really can’t guess which one applies.

There are also differences between valid reasons, and invalid reasons for cheating. Valid reasons are facts offered as an explanation for what drove waywards to cheat.

Invalid reasons are simply excuses. They are not rooted in fact. They are either a rewriting of the marital history or silly reasons used as a way to blameshift.

However, not only waywards blameshift. After posting on this board for awhile, I see plenty of blameshifting on the part of the relationally loyal spouse, too.

There are also many posters who claim to be trying to reconcile with a Wayward who are either transferring their anger to all waywards that post here, or they are still very very angry at their own wayward spouse.

These posters appear to be continually punishing their spouse, based on their rant-filled postings.

There is a difference between consequences for negative behaviors and ongoing never-ending punishment, despite many positive changes a wayward might make.

IMO, SOME BSs here, the majority being men, appear to be extremely hateful toward any and all disloyal spouses.

They rail and lash out and call all cheaters cowards, without even knowing all the FACTS. Yet, SOME admit to staying in an unhappy marriage. Is that brave?

Some, based on postings I have seen, have, over MANY years, emotionally brow beat their wives with the threat of divorce. .... Something that would be guaranteed to make a financially dependent housewife feel very unsafe and unloved. Yet, they insist they are the brave loyal spouses.

Why because they didn't divorce and they didn't cheat.

How is it brave to want a divorce for years, but instead of leaving They stay to detain and emotionally torture their spouse?

Another scenario is the postings from men who were considering divorce for years, yet stayed in the marriage until they finally met someone else that they LUSTED after and wanted to date.

So, then, AND ONLY THEN, they finally divorce their wives to begin dating that new lust object[/.B] But somehow they feel that they did not cheat because they did not stick their penis into the woman before they divorced their wives. They simply found the chaste other women first, and then, with the other women waiting chastely in the wings, they divorced their wife.

IMO, A really brave man would have divorced and lived on his own for a few years to find himself before even dating after a divorce.

I have read posts from male BSs who go to strip clubs and get lap dances, even though their wives' have said that behavior hurts them.

Then, when their wives cheat they are amazed.

They seem to be unaware or oblivious to the fact that 80 to 90 percent of women polled say that strip clubs and lap dances, which often involve touching of breasts and a strange women squirming on the man's erect penis coyly tucked in the man's pants covered lap, are both cheating.

So, the other women only squirmed on a guys lap until he squirted. But, in his mind, he's still a virgin 'cause he didn't stick it in the lap dancer, and only squirted in his pants while groping and ogling her.

I have seen men who claim viewing porn, even when their wives have REPEATEDLY told them that thy find it degrading, disrespectful and embarrassing, when their husbands view porn, and some consider it cheating....., yet these men continue to view porn.

Those same men are then outraged when their wives cheat.

I also find that women on average ARE more willing to work on their own issues after an affair, whereas men resist that.

A larger percentage of male betrayed spouses appear to develop a near neurotic obsession with relentlessly playing the victim card, and refusing to own Any responsibility for the breakdown in their marriage.

YES, There should be consequences for cheating, but some of the betrayed spouses go far beyond consequences by relentlessly punishing their wayward spouse.

IMO, these reconciliations are false and will fail because the relationally loyal spouse refuses to address their own rampant disloyalty's to their marriage vows.

Is an affair wrong. I used to think it was ALWAYS WRONG.

But after reading posts here from angry aggressive relentlessly unforgiving stubborn, mostly male, betrayed spouses who are still punishing and berating their wives, while still refusing to accept any responsibility for the break down of the marriage. I think, YES, SOME AFFAIRS ARE JUSTIFIED.

IT is not my recommendation to cheat, because the cheater risks losing their marriage.

But in the end, if a relationally loyal spouse refuses to address issues, or is stubborn about owning any issues, the other spouse has repeatedly discussed, then there is not much of a marriage to begin with. It’s a dictatorship run by the RELATIONALLY loyal spouse. A relationally only loyal spouse who sees himself as superior because he is physically loyal while being disloyal in a myriad of other ways.

Disloyalty and disrespect in a marriage can take many forms, yet SOME betrayed spouses stubbornly refuse to acknowledge that fact.

Why is cheating called "cheating?

It's called cheating because the cheating spouse is TAKING something from the marriage.

They are cheating the loyal spouse out of time, emotional energy, and financial resources among other things.

A spouse can be cheated out of those things just as easily by a lap dance, or obsessive use of video games, or too many men's night's out, or strip clubs, etc.

People need to acknowledge that, IMO.
 
#157 · (Edited)
To answer the original question posted:

Why do people cheat?

Well the answer is complicated and highly individualized. In aggregate people cheat for many reasons. Those reasons may be justified, or justifiable or unjustified or unjustifiable.

Unless and until you are privy to what goes on behind closed doors in the marriage, you really can’t guess which one applies.

There are also differences between valid reasons, and invalid reasons for cheating. Valid reasons are facts offered as an explanation for what drove waywards to cheat.

Invalid reasons are simply excuses. They are not rooted in fact. They are either a rewriting of the marital history or silly reasons used as a way to blameshift.

However, not only waywards blameshift. After posting on this board for awhile, I see plenty of blameshifting on the part of the relationally loyal spouse, too.

There are also many posters who claim to be trying to reconcile with a Wayward who are either transferring their anger to all waywards that post here, or they are still very very angry at their own wayward spouse.

These posters appear to be continually punishing their spouse, based on their rant-filled postings.

There is a difference between consequences for negative behaviors and ongoing never-ending punishment, despite many positive changes a wayward might make.

IMO, SOME BSs here, the majority being men, appear to be extremely hateful toward any and all disloyal spouses.

They rail and lash out and call all cheaters cowards, without even knowing all the FACTS. Yet, SOME admit to staying in an unhappy marriage. Is that brave?

Some, based on postings I have seen, have, over MANY years, emotionally brow beat their wives with the threat of divorce. .... Something that would be guaranteed to make a financially dependent housewife feel very unsafe and unloved. Yet, they insist they are the brave loyal spouses.

Why because they didn't divorce and they didn't cheat.

How is it brave to want a divorce for years, but instead of leaving They stay to detain and emotionally torture their spouse?

Another scenario is the postings from men who were considering divorce for years, yet stayed in the marriage until they finally met someone else that they LUSTED after and wanted to date.

So, then, AND ONLY THEN, they finally divorce their wives to begin dating that new lust object[/.B] But somehow they feel that they did not cheat because they did not stick their penis into the woman before they divorced their wives. They simply found the chaste other women first, and then, with the other women waiting chastely in the wings, they divorced their wife.

IMO, A really brave man would have divorced and lived on his own for a few years to find himself before even dating after a divorce.

I have read posts from male BSs who go to strip clubs and get lap dances, even though their wives have said that behavior hurts them.

Then, when their wives cheat they are amazed.

They seem to be unaware or oblivious to the fact that 80 to 90 percent of women polled say that strip clubs and lap dances, which often involve touching of breasts and a women squirming on the penis of the man's pants covered lap, are both cheating.

So, the other women only squirmed on a guys lap until he squirted. But, in his mind, he's still a virgin 'cause he didn't stick it in the lap dancer, and only squirted in his pants while groping and ogling her.

I have seen men who claim viewing porn, even when their wives have REPEATEDLY told them that thy find it degrading, disrespectful and embarrassing, when their husbands view porn, and some consider it cheating....., yet these men continue to view porn.

Those same men are then outraged when their wives cheat.

I also find that women on average ARE more willing to work on their own issues after an affair, whereas men resist that.

A larger percentage of male betrayed spouses appear to develop a near neurotic obsession with relentlessly playing the victim card, and refusing to own Any responsibility for the breakdown in their marriage.

YES, There should be consequences for cheating, but some of the betrayed spouses go far beyond consequences by relentlessly punishing their wayward spouse.

IMO, these reconciliations are false and will fail because the relationally loyal spouse refuses to address their own rampant disloyalty's to their marriage vows.

Is an affair wrong. I used to think it was ALWAYS WRONG.

But after reading posts here from angry aggressive relentlessly unforgiving stubborn, mostly male, betrayed spouses who are still punishing and berating their wives, while still refusing to accept any responsibility for the break down of the marriage. I think, YES, SOME AFFAIRS ARE JUSTIFIED.

IT is not my recommendation to cheat, because the cheater risks losing their marriage.

But in the end, if a relationally loyal spouse refuses to address issues, or is stubborn about owning any issues, the other spouse has repeatedly discussed, then there is not much of a marriage to begin with. It’s a dictatorship run by the RELATIONALLY loyal spouse. A relationally only loyal spouse who sees himself as superior because he is physically loyal while being disloyal in a myriad of other ways.

Disloyalty and disrespect in a marriage can take many forms, yet SOME betrayed spouses stubbornly refuse to acknowledge that fact.

Why is cheating called "cheating?

It's called cheating because the cheating spouse is TAKING something from the marriage.

They are cheating the loyal spouse out of time, emotional energy, and financial resources among other things.

A spouse can be cheated out of those thing just as easily by a lap dance, or obsessive use of video games, or too many men's night's out, or strip clubs, etc.

People need to acknowledge that, IMO.



I'm going to go out on a limb, here, and risk the fairly decent amount of WS credibility I have earned on TAM and let the pieces fall where they may. I know that a lot of remorseful strayer's comments rub many, if not most, of you the wrong way. Even this former WS will admit that I have winced upon reading some of his previous posts. But, with the exception of one sentence in this comment, I fully support the point that he is trying to make. The only statement that remorseful strayer made that I do not agree with is this: "I think, YES, SOME AFFAIRS ARE JUSTIFIED." I looked up the word "justified" and this was the definition: 1. having, done for, or marked by a good or legitimate reason. I believe that replacing the words "good" or "legitimate" with the word "understandable" would enable me to accept that definition. Once again, there are no justifications for cheating, because nothing makes it good or legitimate. But, there are always reasons. Sometimes, there are reasons that are more understandable than others.

Even in the rare cases when a WS has been able to successfully convince the TAMers that they were, in fact, in terribly unhappy and/or dysfunctional marriages, and that they did, repeatedly, communicate, pre-A, their unhappiness to their spouses, they did work on their own issues, they did attend IC, they did request MC, but those pleas were disregarded and ignored, they are then told that they should have, could have, and that there is no excuse for not having first gotten a divorce. It can be repeated over and over and over again, that divorce is always the honorable option, but realistically speaking, there are some marriages, that for any number of reasons, when a divorce is simply not a viable option. Children, financial issues, health problems, property, insurance, jobs, familial obligations, etc. are all factors which each individual must consider. There are those who are fortunate enough to have adequate means and/or family support, higher education, good health, or other resources who may simply be incapable of comprehending those types of issues that are very real challenges for others.

For certain BS's who refuse to acknowledge any contributing factors for infidelity other than the WS's selfishness, sense of entitlement, general lack of character, or the WS simply being a "bad person," I do not question why "some" have found themselves to be the victim of infidelity on more than one occasion. Infidelity is NEVER good or legitimate. But, I am not incapable of comprehending that sometimes the reasons are more understandable than others. And, sometimes, those reasons begin with the BS's refusal to work on THEIR side of the road in the marriage and end with the WS's decision to go outside of the marriage as their only means (other than divorce) of getting their needs met. Not all needs are selfish. We are all human beings. We all have needs and we all have a breaking point. That said, I wish to Hell that I'd never reached mine. Likewise, I wish that my BS had responded to my pleas and had chosen to deal with his own issues before I reached that point. I may have willingly chosen to jump off of the cliff into infidelity. But, my husband's, years long, emotional and physical abandonment of me had theoretically put me on that cliff and he was driving towards me going 100 mph. I jumped. Now, he, our children, and I are all paying the price for BOTH of our failures.

On a brighter note, because we are BOTH owning our share of the blame for the colossal mess of a marriage that WE created, and we are BOTH working on our own personal issues, as well as working towards making amends towards one another, we are, now, 17 months into reconciliation.
 
#155 ·
I've decided that nothing good will come from a longer response from me on this subject, I'm just totally blown away. If I may ask instead - what on earth do you hold against people who have been betrayed - generally speaking??

I take offence being called a relational loyal spouse, that my wife's cheating is justified by proxy etc. Even the little gem in Plan 9's post, which I btw liked in it's entirety as an honest attempt to create a balanced post - but this "It doesn't even mean that the BS in these situations are always the responsible one either..."

I'm pleased to see, that you think there are in fact a tiny part of the betrayed spouses out there who didn't deserve it. Wow, just wow.
 
#164 ·
There don't seem to be that many "why not R" threads out there...

Each wayward has to personally answer this question for their betrayed. For my partner, she only wanted for me to be safe for her to love and be with. She already felt that I was the best person for her and would rather be with me over anyone else, despite the infidelity. So more than why should we R, her question was, "Can you be the person I need you to be in order for us to R?" I said yes, and I've been busy working on it and proving it all year. She is happy with my changes and is now able to start believing again. We have our future back.
 
#165 ·
I do not believe that cheating can ever be justified. It really is a choice and regardless of the circumstances in the marriage, it is a wrong choice.
To say "if it's so bad, just leave" or to generalize that all who cheat are cake eaters, or that cheating is the worst thing anyone can do are not necessarily fair statements.
In my case, I had told my H for many years what I needed, what we needed to work on, how even the smallest change could make big differences. He simply didn't care. He believed he was happy, he knew I was not happy, and he thought the sum of that meant we were OK.

He knew I was going to leave, he refused to believe I would leave. He used violent threats to manipulate me into staying. I was the primary bread winner and primary care giver for our children. I was his taxi, his ATM, his housekeeper.
When my affair was discovered, he finally had a reason for our failed marriage. It was ALL my fault. It was OK to divorce, because I was the one who failed.
The first month was obviously the worst. He was angry, I found TAM, left quickly but lurked and found help for both of us.

We're a few years out now, have had many conversations about our marriage and what had gone wrong. We are cordial with each other, can interact without drama and are both happier and healthier now. I do not believe that we could have had this outcome if I had not cheated and my now xH agrees. He did not KNOW he was just as unhappy, he didn't want a failed marriage. He was comfortable and did not want change. My A gave him an out.
I regret that I cheated and I continue to work on myself, but I honestly don't believe any of this would be possible if I had just left.
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#166 ·
It's a tough lesson to have to learn the hard way... that an affair doesn't fix a broken marriage. You don't fix a fire by pouring gasoline on it. You want to believe that it wouldn'ta have been possible without your affair, but actually the thing that probably changed was communication and honesty. You could have had those things to begin with, and I don't mean asking for MC, I mean telling your H that you had feelings for another man, that you had brought another person into the marriage without him knowing.

You use the violent threats as an excuse, did it ever occur to you that a violent person might be more violent when they find out you're cheating on them? You might turn them into a killer, or get you or your OM hurt? Why are threats of violence an excuse to cheat, but not a reason to get a restraining order or go to a shelter?
 
#177 ·
It's a tough lesson to have to learn the hard way... that an affair doesn't fix a broken marriage.
Actually that is inaccurate. It fixed my marriage. Without it, I would have had to divorce my wife.

There are studies to support this notion, that IN SOME CASES an affair can save and strengthen a marriage.

It only works however if both people in the marriage can be, or can be trained to be, introspective enough to examine and own their own issues.

If cheating is a deal breaker for someone, then let the spouse go. You will be doing the spouse a favor rather than being bitter and angry for the rest of the marriage.

For me personally, a sexual tryst would not be a deal breaker.

Now if my wife told me she was no longer in love with me, that would be my deal breaker. At that point, I would ask her if she meant it, maybe give her some time to talk to a counselor, but if the answer was that she still no longer loved me or NEVER loved me. I would move on.

My affair partner repeatedly told me that she NEVER loved her husband. In fact she said he had a hairy, fat body and he disgusted her. She was sweet to his face, because he was a good provider. That's all. That's very sad.

When my wife was disinterested in sex for ten years, I had many times asked her if she would be happier if she would divorce me. I did NOT threaten to divorce her. I asked her if her lack of interest in sex for ten years, meant she was no longer in love with me or was unhappy and that maybe she was too loyal or kind to ask for a divorce.

She said, no. She actually cried and said that marriage is about more than just sex and if I loved her, really loved here I would still love her without sex. Sigh.

If she were ill, I would agree with that. But her lack of interest in sex was due to her new Buddhist bent and belief celibacy would lead to enlightenment.

Also, if I lost my wife permanently due to the affair, I would have simply accepted that, learned a lesson, and moved on.

Both my wife and I could easily find new partners.
 
#179 ·
Actually that is inaccurate. It fixed my marriage. Without it, I would have had to divorce my wife.
It's very accurate, the thing that 'fixes' the marriage isn't the affair.. it's the honesty and accountability. The A can force those things, but it's not the cure.

If I'm drunk driving, and I crash my car, and while they are examining me, they say that I have cancer but they found it early and remove it to save my life. Does that mean that drunk driving saved my life? Was it now justifiable that I was drinking and driving, because it caused a good outcome?
 
#178 ·
So you truly believe that it's the infidelity that improves the marriage? Not improved communication and introspection?
 
#181 ·
I don't know how to quote from multiple posts or copy & paste from my phone, so this might be a little messy, but going to try to address the comments...
I'm not saying my affair was "good" for either of us. I don't know what would have happened if I had just left. I did not make that choice. At the time, I did not believe I could leave safely. I essentially used my AP to help me vet where I didn't think I could get on my own.

His trust in me never existed. He was broken too, and I spent over 20 years listening to him tell me that no women can be trusted that I couldn't be trusted, trying to earn his trust, always to no avail. In the end, I became the person he thought I was.

Again, I'm not trying to justify, blame shift, gas-light, this is how my mind was working at the time. I do not believe it was right and if I could go back and do things over, I would not cheat, I would leave, but.I know a lot more now than I did then, and I know it because of what happened.

The end result, which was the end of my marriage, was the right result for us. I do not believe my affair was "good" for me or my H, but in the end, it did make us both better people.
This could have and should have, happened without an affair, but I can't change it now.
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