I admit that you had me fooled by your handle "Remorseful strayer" - why did you choose that one? You tell us to investigate the facts before stating anything, so I would like to ask you, if you believe that you show remorse to your wife, and if you do, what does it look like to your wife?
Sounds like you are the exception to the rule. My exWW is approaching your level of decency. Her remorse was for only for her own loss, imo, until the last few weeks. She is engaged and I wonder if the new marriage idea is causing her to re-evaluate her past behavior.
It feels good knowing that a D is often a blessing for both parties. I would think that my old goal to save a marriage after betrayal is faulty. It felt different when I was attempting R, but in hind-sight the D was a positive for us.
Thanks for your perspective.
I admire the efforts people put into their R. I also think that D is often a better choice for many (me included).
Why do cheaters cheat?
More important to me is why did my ex cheat? Ultimately it is a driving force to make me live better. Better people in my circle. Better habits. Better relationships. Better understanding of broken people.
Since we are discussing uncomfortable truths, lets look at the Betrayed who marry 'a cheater'...and marry 'another cheater'...and then marry 'another cheater.
So what? Your picker broke? Or perhaps we can look at the one common factor in all three marriages. But these types generally lack any introspection and are constantly amazed at how many 'bad spouses' there are out there. Posted via Mobile Device
Since we are discussing uncomfortable truths, lets look at the Betrayed who marry 'a cheater'...and marry 'another cheater'...and then marry 'another cheater.
So what? Your picker broke? Or perhaps we can look at the one common factor in all three marriages. But these types generally lack any introspection and are constantly amazed at how many 'bad spouses' there are out there. Posted via Mobile Device
For the record, I only had one LTR, so it's not my personal experience I'm adressing. It could be a broken picker, or it could be a person who has written "cheat on me" on the forehead, or it could just be the odds - AFAIR I have around 40% chance of picking a partner who will cheat on me. If I play heads and tails, could I get tails 3 times in a row - I believe I could.
Well, I will say that you are a male and that it is most likely due to the fact you are male that things worked out. I saw on a thread here that although approximately 50% of marriages recover - of those 90% are when the male cheats and only 10% when the female cheats - consider yourself lucky...just saying I am not sure I could forgive.
I agree. You are right, my marriage survived because of many variables, including the variable of me being the wayward.
As for you not being able to forgive infidelity. If that's your deal breaker, that's okay.
What I don't understand is the bitterness that remains, when reconciling or even if divorcing among some posters here, even years later.
If reconciling, both have to be ALL in. If not or if the people can not, let each other go and move on.
If the people divorce, then move on.
What is the point of making the BS a new identity and hanging onto a victim mentality, even years down the road?
If a person has gotten PTSD from the infidelity experience, well then get help and move on. If not, all that anger and hostility will be carried into the next relationship and then that anger will cause problems in that new relationship.
There is a saying, and it goes:
“Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of harming another; you end up getting burned.”
Both of you have stated that a lack of sex was part of your reason for cheating.
Why did you chose to R with a woman who left you feeling cold?
I get the kids, family, money, etc. Not sure if those are valid in most cases, but I understand the rationale.
If you would venture to the point of hurting your spouse deeply, why would you not move to the next step of finding a different wife with a better sex drive?
I have answered that question many times. In fact people in other posts here have addressed it and in a very eloquent fashion.
The question is perhaps too simplistic. No one simple answer may apply.
Also, my wife and I now have an excellent sex life.
But just to clarify. Money was never a reason, Kids were never a reason, what my family or her family thought was never a reason because counselors wisely told us not to tell them, and we did not, lack of opportunity regarding finding a new partner was not an issue for me, and lack of opportunity regarding new partner was not an issue for her.
So that leaves love and admiration, compatibility in all other areas other than in the past her sex drive.
My wife also hurt me deeply by avoiding sex, but neither did she want a divorce.
Lastly, in spite of the lack of sex, my wife is and was an extremely affectionate, loving, huggy person.
I think there are a number of people on here who are either intentionally or unintentionally misunderstand what people are trying to state in this thread.
There is a difference between "justification" vs "rational". It's OK to state legitimate reasons why a spouse chose to cheat without them automatically becoming justifications for the cheating.
For people asking "why R"? Obviously it's because both the betrayed and the betrayer still have love for each other and want to overcome the problems. People are trying to apply pure logic and reason in situations that involve love. The phrase "love is blind" is no accident that came about because someone was drinking. It's an obvious way to explain how logic and reason can be thrown out the window for the sake of love.
Logically, a man doesn't want to be married to the "eager wh0re" or the "frigid ice queen". A person using reason and logic from the outside would tell you to cut your losses and try again. If both H and W are in love still, it's likely that they will painfully work to R in the hopes that they can salvage their marriage and perhaps make it better. Even the most jaded of us still want to believe in hope.
This is about the best "explanation" I have seen on this thread and it isn't really an explanation at all. It is extremely hard to explain without sounding like justifying.
Every situation is different and it's very hard to explain without coming across the wrong way.
I truly believe that we should ALL maintain HOPE and MY hope is that people like me learn from their mistakes, people like my xH learn from the fallout, people that wish to R, succeed and above all, people that are on the edge, do the right thing! Fix the problem, or leave the problem, but don't make the problem worse. Posted via Mobile Device
They cheat because they choose to. At some point, they give themselves permission. The reasons and justifications will vary, but follow a similar pattern. The betrayed spouse did something that made them choose to cheat, anything from loading the dishes in the dishwasher backwards to kicking puppies.
When they come out of the fog (some never do), they realize that the betrayed spouse not only didn't have any input into the choice, or they would have said "no", they also realize that they were tricking the spouse, so the spouse really had no chance at helping, because they chose to go to a "friend" for help and trick the spouse with lies and deceit.
That's also what he does (gets people banned after trolling them with dime store analysis when they call him on it), aside from trying to build epeen on intrawebz forumz by telling everyone how much bigger and smarter he is than the average knuckle dragging mouth breathers that post here. He's so smaht and tall, forgive me for saying the word shallow mods. Please replace that with "testosterone filled".
he actually compared humans with lamps. apparently he believes his cheating(s) are like failed-experiments.you know , like the necessary steps that lead to success. he doesn't understand that his choices have a (negative)effect on human lives(his APs , their spouses, their children , their marriages , his own wife). I mean , how do you respond to that? :scratchhead:
I'm going to wash my very expensive very shiny car with the fancy wheels that I purchased with my very high salary now.. Getting ready for the weekend. I will be very busy working next week so I might not get to post much, because I'm not only well paid, tall and drive a nice car.. I'm a very important person with a cool title. Have a great weekend everyone.
There are no reasons why a cheater cheats, only justifications. Those justifications run the gamut but it basically boils down to one thing in my experience....entitlement. They are somehow owed or deserve this because their spouse is or isn't doing x, y and z.
That said, there are two types of cheaters once caught. Those who are truly remorseful and sickened by their behavior, own up to their entitlement complex and work to regain the trust, respect and love of their partner. Those people are the ones who in my experience are not bad people but people who made terrible choices and they own it. Then there are the other types who once caught, blameshift on their spouse and say it is the spouses fault that they made these terrible choices. They pay lip service with declarations of I'm sorry, let's get counseling, etc. but the reality is they really don't feel bad at all, just that they were caught. Those are the types that I truly believe are bad people. Their remorse is superficial only despite their protestations to the contrary and is often predicated on their spouse changing, not them. My father was this type.
There are no reasons why a cheater cheats, only justifications. Those justifications run the gamut but it basically boils down to one thing in my experience....entitlement. They are somehow owed or deserve this because their spouse is or isn't doing x, y and z.
That said, there are two types of cheater behavior once caught. Those who are truly remorseful and sickened by their behavior, own up to their entitlement complex and work to regain the trust, respect and love of their partner. Those people are the ones who in my experience are not bad people but people who made terrible choices and rationalized them. Then there are the other types who once caught, blameshift on their spouse and say it is the spouses fault that they made these terrible choices. They are the ones who don't want to discuss what happened or do anything to regain the trust, respect and love of their partner.....they just want things to magically go back to the way things were, often reminding the spouse that any hiccup along the way is because the spouse just can't forget and move on. Those are the types that I truly believe are bad people. They have no remorse and continue with their entitlement attitude. My father was this type.
There's the group that accept the responsibility but only on on a shallow level.
"Course I'm responsible. It was me and I was stupid it was my fault alone",
"although.....
(muttering under their breath "mmm but if you had let me fk you when I wanted to (even though you were up to your neck in nappies (diapers) and a hoover in the other hand) I wouldn't have needed to go elsewhere, would I"
Let this thread die. There is not going to be any new revelation out of this anymore. People believe what they believe. WSs and their sympathizers will always believe that a BS has to take some blame for cheating. BSs and decent human beings will always believe that cheating is always on the WS, no matter how bad a marriage is; there is always the option of divorce, and not divorcing and going naughty with someone else is prime example of entitlement.
It is what it is. Posting the same thing over and over again is not going to make anyone change their mind. When this thread was posted, I highly doubt that anyone was willing to learn from their mistakes. Even the most remorseful ones hailed elsewhere on this board have shown their real face here.
However I would say this - I hope this thread is maybe locked but left here because for once a few betrayed people have taken the trouble to counter point argue and not sit back and accept a bunch of masked and hidden excuses by some smart people who happen to have gone wayward at some point.
Normally they come on and argue with some obtuse and grandiose vocabulary about "it takes two etc etc" and people tend to leave it.
Well for once the betrayed here have made some very very good and strong counter points without the usual,, waywards claim that they are being screamed at (their usual contention)
I'd like to point back to this thread every time I hear/see a former wayward giving their level 2 argument as to how 'cheating was better for a marriage' or how in effect 'they were made to do it'.
It would save time arguing about it in another thread as well I spose
______________
And as for Remorseful Sprayer NeurobubblledyIhavethemostist
If maybe you took two inches off your height two million off your salary and 4inches off your you know what you might be treated with a bit of credibility / seriousness in future. :lol:
I am talking not about abusive or thrill seekers but only with respect to honest individuals with normal acceptable faults, which might be countered with other aspects if their characters.
Don't we all get into a marriage with some entitlement ? Are we not entitled to love affection and some physical intimacy? What is wrong with entitlement mentality here. Should having same in a marriage should be the default and avoiding be abnormality ?
Why is that all responsibilities fall on shoulders of WS and BS.
Cheating means when a person is not giving something to another person that s/he is entitled to, in this case his love , affection and physical intimacy . If you are abdicating that , then why crib when your spouse is giving it to someone else. After all you were to one who refused it.
People cheat because they're imperfect and/or broken, and other factors may get thrown in the hopper (e.g., opportunity, technology) too.
The marriages that they were in may have been fine, average, or miserable. But as the affair gets underway (and later on, in retrospect), unfaithful people struggle with cognitive dissonance so they rewrite marital history. So wherever their marriage was on that scale of fine to miserable, their view of it is distorted toward the miserable end: one thing they're not good at is viewing the marriage realistically, nor through their partner's eyes.
I have text message evidence of my husband's playful and loving messages to me during the time of his affair (yes, he was also intermittently more crabby than usual, but he was traveling a lot and dealing with a new medical problem, so I cut him some slack). When we first started talking about his affair, he remembered only pulling away from me at this time, and not feeling close. But I have the sweet text messages (he now says he has always loved me, so they weren't lies); and Mr. pulling away and I were having sex (though I know now he was having unprotected sex with her, putting me at risk of STD's and not even giving it a second thought).
Bottom line: cheaters are imperfect, sometimes broken people who also have imperfect evaluation skills regarding the state of their marriages, during and even after their affairs.
Could cut the arrogance easily with a dull knife in this thread.
Good God. Posted via Mobile Device
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