land2634

Of course I've asked her and she turned me down. She's at a point where she doesn't want to hear anything that goes against her affair. It isn't due to a lack of trying on my part.

I'm confused as to exactly how anyone is coaching me to be a doormat. In your earlier post, you say I should sit down with her to talk, yet then say I'm a doormat. What would you have me do?

The macho attitude and tactic of beating my fists on my chest might work for some people, but it will never work for me. That isn't me at all, and I refuse to pretend as such. Marking my territory and acting like a fool will most definitely run my wife further away, and I feel comfortable saying I know that much about her.

josh1081

Land, what kind of a decision did you make about the insurance? I can sense that you are going to have a negative response to your well written letter. IMO after that point still helping pay for insurance is just an enabler and might be time to cover your loses there.
I do hope you get something positive out of the response though
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land2634

I'll at least keep the insurance through the end of the year, because that's when I'll be able to switch back over. It will also mark 6 months since she left home. At that point, she should be coming pretty close to an enrollment period with the insurance from her job.

AFEH

There is none so blind as those that will not see.

Can’t even get you to see the water let alone lead you to it.

Your eyes are well and truly shut to anything that opposes what you think. It’s called being really stubborn. Your wife will know that and it's probably one of the key reasons she gave up on you.

It’s no wonder you lost your wife.

Bob

turnera

Bob, I'm confused, too. What exactly are you suggesting that he do?

AFEH

Well when you’re in a hole and it’s getting deeper and deeper (wife moving further and further away) you stop digging (you stop continuing with the same set of values and beliefs that dictated your behaviour and got you into the hole in the first place).

Then when somebody new comes along and offers you a ladder you at least take a look at the ladder and try and understand it even if at first you don’t grasp it and start climbing out of the hole you’ve dug. I think that’s even more important when the ladder is so different to the one currently in use as it offers lateral thinking.

And you most certainly don’t have a go at the guy who’s standing there at the top of the hole and trying to help you out with his particular ladder. Why? Because he’ll just take his ladder away, leave you in the hole and hope you’ll find your way out …. somehow.

And in my mind the very least you do is say thanks for trying to help me out.

What am I suggesting that he do? He ain’t listening, he’s not even prepared to look at my ladder let alone understand it. He is blind in that respect. They say the teacher appears when the pupil’s ready. Can’t see Land ever being ready for this particular teacher. I wish him luck.

Bob

land2634

If by saying I am stubborn you are referring to me sticking to a plan, then yes, I am stubborn. If you mean continuing to stand by my marriage vows, then yes, I am stubborn. If doctors gave up the first time a formula for a new drug didn't work, then none of us would have the type of medication we do.

You keep saying my eyes are closed and I won't listen, but here's the thing: as of yet, you haven't offered a solution of your own. I hate to put it so bluntly, but I really don't see any other way to go. If you aren't going to offer a solution or at least some constructive feedback, then don't come into the thread and throw accusations around as if somehow you know the reason my wife left me.

turnera

What is your ladder? Did I miss it? Can you give specifics for us nimwits who don't understand? All I got was don't be a doormat, but I don't see what you thought was being a doormat.

AFEH

I would need to put some time and effort into helping Land out, metaphorically showing him the ladder’s steps one by one. There aren’t many steps. The first for example would be to show him a re written letter. To do that I would have to spend time and effort re writing the letter.

But Land declares time after time that he is sticking with his chosen course. If the rock wants to move I can show it the way I’d go about it. I can’t move immoveable lumps of rock. I gave up doing that a long time ago.

Plus he has other rocks around him, the “Can you give specifics for us nimwits who don't understand?”. In my opinion he is being “Mothered” and he’s lapping that mothering up.

Birds of a feather and all that. So it’s not just Land that I’d be trying to get to see the light, it’s a whole flock. I’m quite prepared to challenge Land’s thinking to help him out and I know he can feel my challenge. But I ain’t up for challenging flocks as that’s akin to trying to change a culture and we all know where that leads to.

A person has got to want to change. If they don’t I walk away.

I sincerely hope Land gets his wife back. But I will be most surprised, probably a little shocked if he indeed he does.

Bob

Feelingalone

Bob,

I agree that Land needs to change tactics; however, you haven't given specifics. Try showing him the first rung on your ladder. How bout that?

Not so much tactics in my opinion, but tone and demeanor. I believe he should drop the insurance on her as soon as possible. Stop saying he loves her at all, and minimize contact or go no contact at all and start living. What do you say Bob?

__________________
"Don't think less of yourself, think of yourself less" ....C.S. Lewis

marilee

Well, since you asked...

Land, I've been reading this thread for months. I disagree with a lot of the advice you've been given, but have kept quiet.

From what I can see, she isn't staying away because she doesn't understand where you stand and what you want. She knows where you stand. She isn't confused about your degree of love and devotion. She just doesn't care.

Have you read Michelle Wiener Davis' information about the 180? It is invaluable. I'm not sure if we're supposed to post links, so just google that - "Michelle Wiener Davis 180." You'll see it referred to from countless sites that help people to recover from infidelity and, where possible, put their marriages back together. It is designed to help YOU move forward as a healthy person, and many times, helps your spouse to see you as a healthy person, instead of as a needy doormat.

Here's a small excerpt:

I think you are such a kind and decent man and admire your commitment to your marriage. But what you are doing now clearly isn't working, and it may be time to consider other strategies.

I mean, you can continue with what you're currently doing - just dragging it out for as long as you possibly can, if that's what floats your boat... But I really don't understand how you think this might ever win her back? She doesn't respect you. How could she? You don't seem to respect yourself.

For the love of Pete, STOP telling her that you love her. It is the last thing she should hear right now. She already knows and doesn't care. It does nothing but make her mutter "he just doesn't get it." Stop handing her all of that relationship power. She doesn't need reassurance that you love her. She needs a reality check.

Stop giving her money. Let her feel the financial consequences of choosing to leave the marriage. Stop enabling the affair by giving her money so that she can afford long weekends with the OM.

Let the OM provide health insurance for her, if he loves her so much - OR - HEY - LET HER SEE THAT MAYBE HE DOESN'T.

You're not on an even playing field with the OM. Right now all he has to do is sweet talk her and have sex with her - because you're still there to do all of the non-sexy health insurance type stuff. Let her actually see what life would truly be like without you. Is OM really willing to pick up that slack, or is he just using her for sex/fun/play? Why are you serving as his safety net?

How on earth can she miss you, if she never has the chance to miss what you have to offer?

AFEH

Land's on his own path FA and very assured of it he is too. Plus he’s the support of the others he’s listening to because they’re telling him what he wants to hear.

He’s assigning stuff to me which just doesn’t exist. I just can’t be bothered to untangle the following:.


“Of course I've asked her and she turned me down. She's at a point where she doesn't want to hear anything that goes against her affair. It isn't due to a lack of trying on my part.

I'm confused as to exactly how anyone is coaching me to be a doormat. In your earlier post, you say I should sit down with her to talk, yet then say I'm a doormat. What would you have me do?

The macho attitude and tactic of beating my fists on my chest might work for some people, but it will never work for me. That isn't me at all, and I refuse to pretend as such. Marking my territory and acting like a fool will most definitely run my wife further away, and I feel comfortable saying I know that much about her”.

turnera

You still didn't say what you want him to do.

marilee

Dude, you just wrote six paragraphs about how you have all of this fantastic advice that he just won't listen to. Clearly, you have the time.

I'm pretty sure we're probably of a similar mind, but honestly, put up or shut up, as they say. No point in coming to his thread over and over again just to whine about how he won't listen to the advice you can't take the time to give him.

AFEH

Lol Marilee. Got a response from some others who hadn't spoken up before didn't I. Yours was particularly good, better thought out than mine but is in the main what I’d have communicated just in a different way and FA is on the mark.

Me I’m out of it because of Land’s responses as I explained. I’m not going to even try and untangle those.

Bob