nice777guy

I think I'm in the minority here, but thought this would be interesting to discuss.

Has anyone out there used a PI, keylogger or any other type of spying to actually FIX AND REPAIR their marriage?

Seems like people who are "cheating" leave enough clues because its so hard to keep that second secret life.

Plus, in long term relationships, we KNOW our spouse. We KNOW when they aren't acting right.

I can remember two posters on this board - one with a GPS, the other a keylogger - who were caught spying and never found a bit of evidence to confirm their suspicions. Maybe they were right - maybe not - but I think in both cases their spouse was GONE after finding out their privacy had been invaded.

Check the phone and credit card bill. Do reverse look-ups on phone numbers. Check common e-mail accounts - especially the trash and sent folders. Look at their friends list on social network sites. Check the history on their browser. All of these are reasonable, fairly non-invasive and ethical things that you can do without jeopardizing an already rocky relationship.

ASK QUESTIONS. THEY HATE QUESTIONS. Ask the same question every couple of days and see if the answer changes. LYING IS HARD WORK. Dropped my kids off at school yesterday - teacher had a sign saying "If you don't lie, you don't have to remember everything you've ever said."

So - back to my original question - HAS SPYING EVER HELPED ANYONE HERE GET THEIR SPOUSE BACK?

land2634

When my wife was getting suspicious and whatnot, I began to watch things more closely.

Previously, her phone had a GPS software on it that allowed me to get her location at any given time. It was a software she was well-aware was on her phone and the only time I had used it in the past had been when I was waiting for her to get home from work and was trying to have dinner ready right when she walked in. I did most of the cooking because I enjoy it, so I enjoyed having dinner ready for her. I always told her anytime I used it to see if she was on her way home.

When she began lying to me, I began wondering where she was or if she was indeed telling me the truth. So, one night, I checked her location. Based on that night, I knew that I needed to started checking on things.

In my case, the GPS didn't exactly hurt me, but if I had jumped straight to checking her chats and whatnot, I wouldn't have needed the GPS. I guess each situation is different in a way.

nice777guy

So you were using something that was already available and that she knew about. You didn't have to sneak around, install some hidden software, or spend $1,000 to have her followed.

Had she caught you, I'm sure she would have tried to shame you and accuse you of invading her privacy, but you were just using a feature on your phone that she was fully aware of (but may have forgotten about).

notreadytoquit

Well my gut feeling was right, the keylogger just gave me the proof I needed to confront him, which I did. He is still denying everything, he filed for divorce. I even told him that I have screenshots of his secret emails and he knows very well that he is the only person that has access to that laptop(work laptop).

I think the gut feeling must be at least 95% right. The other gadgets just get you the physical proof(unless you catch your spouse in bed with the other person)

nice777guy

notready - good point; your H never admitted to anything and did a real good job of covering his tracks; in your case I'm sure it would have been hard for you to leave without the evidence you got;

I guess the other part of my question is does this stuff ever actually help save the marriage - or are things too far gone by the time people start going to all of these extra measures.

I know you showed him some of your evidence, but did you ever tell him how you knew so much (keylogger & GPS)?

careful

Hi NiceGuy;

My answer may not fit what you are asking, but I used extensive Intel equipment (and other methods), which helped me eliminate my gut suspicions.

I had read over and over that I needed to trust my gut. But I have always dealt with anxiety issues, and when my wife started becoming distant, my "gut" was telling me something was wrong. Then my anxieties kicked in and though I had absolutely no tangible reason to suspect anything, I felt the need to do whatever it took to calm my fears.

After 6 months of daily Intel, I was able to put my suspicions to rest. That helped me to work on a different strategy for Fixing and Reparing my marriage.

Hope I didn't misunderstand your question,

Careful

nice777guy

Careful - no you didn't misunderstand - although your answer seems a bit unique.

You went to extensive, intrusive measures - and your marriage was possibly saved because of it.

What do you think would have happened if your wife had found out what you were doing?

careful

Hi NiceGuy;

I'm not sure what would have happened if she found out. I can tell you that I went through a huge amount of soul searching, and planning to make sure that she wouldn't.

I had to take the chance. Doing nothing was eating me up. I was paralized until I was sure there was no affair. I followed advice on this site (and others) not to confront her or provide even a hint that I was suspicious, so she had no reason to think I was checking which helped me hide my activities. Even if she had been cheating, I don't think she would have detected.

But even though I am glad I did it, and glad I found nothing..there are some huge dangers beyond just getting caught; feelings of guilt being one of the most obvious.

Careful

notreadytoquit

Yes I did tell him how I got that info(keylogger). As soon as he read some of my proof that I sent to his brother he changed the passwords to almost everything. He even went to get another secret phone(funny her calls to his current phone stopped right after he got that secret phone). I managed to get back into his cell phone account again(the regular phone). He does not know that I have access to it. However he still left his FB, Linkedin, and Yahoo email accounts the same. Mind you I created all these for him so he never changed the passwords. Nothing spectacular to find in these except in his Linkedin account I recently found an invitation to join he sent to her in Jan 2010. The invitation looked like regular one except he addressed her as Hi my (ow name) and ended it as Your (my H name). Not exactly how you address an invitation to join a website for business connections. She never got to accept that invite because it was sent to her work email and she got fired about the same time as him. Then in May she sent him another invite to him but he never accepted it.

Despite what I have told him he is trying to convince me and his mother(who is clueless about emails, computers) that someone (like the OW H) created those emails. I have spoken to the OM and creating such thing would require a huge amount of work. The guy is not that into computers himself either. Plus the only two people that would have had access to him H laptop would have been myself and him. After I caught him he stopped bringing the laptop at home or he would take it to his bedroom in the basement.


Well I am in a process of divorce that he initiated right after that but at least my conscience is clear and I know that his BS story does not add up. People can believe what they want, I really don't think anyone other than my MIL believes him. He has basically cut off commu nications to a lot of people we knew together. I guess living in CT and son and I in Canada does help him.

jitterbug

I've never gone to those lengths myself, but I don't see anything wrong with a BS gathering intel , especially after a long period of being gaslighted.

I've read several stories, on this forum and others, in which the BS is relieved to find out the truth ---even if it's horrific.

I remember one poster saying, ''At least I know I'm not crazy now...."

"at least I know that it wasn't just my imagination....."


Knowing for certain is much better than twisting in the wind, second-guessing yourself, doubting your own perceptions, wondering if you're overreacting.

Knowing something's off, but your spouse or partner keeps telling you it's all in your head...........even when all the red flags are waving furiously, and new ones pop up every day.......

The gaslighting that some WS's engage in to divert attention from their activities can be just as damaging as the actual act of cheating itself, IMO.

Having full knowledge returns a measure of control to the BS, who has been left in the dark---denied their basic right to be kept in the loop about something that affects every facet of their life.......their emotional well-being, their capacity for trust, and their physical health.

nice777guy

jitterbug - many people here are told to do these things almost right away based on one or two paragraphs they've shared in a post;

I just wonder if doing this when your marriage still has a chance is ever actually helpful.

I guess what I'm thinking is:
Man suspects wife - he's right. Wife is having sex with other men through on-line chat sites. Man immediately installs keylogger and finds the truth. The wife was already moving away - and now she'll feel further justified since her husband is invading her privacy.

Would the wayward spouse in this case ever actually say "OK - you got me. I'll stop now. Here are my passwords. Keep the keylogger on to help keep me honest. Sorry I hurt you. I love you so much." ???

Just seems like by the time it gets to this point - spying and invading privacy - its all over anyway. Agree that the evidence may be needed to help the betrayed spouse know that its truly over - but will it ever help heal a marriage?

Affaircare

NiceGuy~

I think I kind of get what you're asking, and I think I can answer.

Before an affair occurs both the loyal and disloyal spouse are engaging in Love Extinguishers and have slowed down on the Love Kindlers. Both could be vulnerable to an affair, and both probably think something along the lines of "...but that would never happen to us. Oh sure I'm tempted, I have a little crush, but I didn't act on it and (spouse) never would either because we love each other. That happens to other people." So for quite a while the affair really does sort of start as friendship-esque while the loyal spouse more or less denies something is amiss.

THEN comes the crucial moment when the balance tips enough that the loyal notices. Intuition or something in the their gut says something is not right and the loyal thinks something like, "Umm...wow is it conceivable there is something beyond friendship here?" What do they do with this question? Almost always they go to the disloyal and ask! And since the disloyal has been crossing more and more and more little lines and covering up their thoughts, feelings, and actions...when the loyal asks them are they open and honest? On a very rare (like 1%) occasion they might be, but 99% of the time no. They continue covering up EVEN MORE and you tell me. What would a person do in order to keep doing what they sort of know is wrong but they want to do? Yep--deflect blame! So abut 99% of the time the disloyal says, "Oh for God's sake we're just friends! You're paranoid! You have trust issues."

Now the disloyal is alerted that the loyal suspects (and likely goes just a little further underground to cover it up better, like changing passwords or later at night), but the loyal is in a HORRIBLE position!! They are usually in the position of having that intuition/gut feeling that something is wrong and has gone too far...AND...they are second-guessing themselves because the disloyal suggested paranoia out loud!!

Right about then, the loyal will come here to TAM (or some other forum, etc.) and post a thread that basically says: "Is this an affair?" and then give the couple of things that made them suspicious. And usually the things that made them suspicious are more like "where there's smoke, there's fire" rather than the smoking gun.

THUS, we encourage loyals #1 to Gather Evidence not because the sheer weight of what they discover will make the disloyal confess and save their marriage right then and there; but rather because once the loyal realizes that fidelity means "giving 100% of the affection and loyalty to your spouse" and once the loyal has even some evidence, there is a huge relief. They are NOT nuts! It's not mental illness, paranoia, anxiety kicking it, jealousy, etc. It's really, for real, happening and they can trust THEMSELVES!! So the issue here is not "Can I trust my disloyal and prove to them so they'll confess?" but rather "Can I trust myself? Can I trust my instincts?"

Now...once a loyal has gathered some evidence and they are convinced there actually IS something going on, the next step is #2 Confront the Disloyal privately. The goal of this meeting is not to show SO MUCH EVIDENCE that they'll cave and confess. The goal is to inform the disloyal that you know there is an affair, that it is NOT just "in the my mind", that you do have hard physical evidence, that you realize things were not good in the marriage and acknowledge your part in the breakdown, and that you ask them privately to end it and return to the marriage. Not too many disloyals choose to end it and return, but honestly? Some do! I've seen disloyals who realize they aren't pulling the wool over their spouse's eyes, and they break and confess and end it right there. Usually those are folks who really WERE pretty honest people and who slipped into an EA by not having firm boundaries. But this step is usually for the loyal, so they know that they are not nuts and they can trust THEMSELVES!

Some loyals are fairly computer savvy and can figure out how to get evidence on their own with some logic. Some loyals are not as savvy, or their disloyal is SUPER savvy, and those folks might require deeper investigative tools like a keylogger or PI. But honestly? About 3/4 of the time to gather evidence all you have to do is check emails or FB if you can, document phone calls (from where and when), document receipts like from the bank account, and document calls/texts via the online cell statement. Right there most of the time, you'll find inconsistencies or a pattern reasonable enough to prove infidelity.

__________________
Helping couples recover and reconcile after an affair or keep their marriages affair-free at Affaircare.

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nice777guy

That's my point exactly! There are so many other reasonable options - what I call just "keeping your eyes opened" - that it seems unnecessary in most cases to truly invade your spouses privacy.

And from what I've experienced, it must be EXHAUSTING for a disloyal to keep up with all of the lies they've told. Ask them the same question many times over several days and keep track of their answers.

Just seems to me that there are so many reasonable ways to verify things while sticking to the "high road."

jitterbug

[QUOTE=Affaircare;175405]NiceGuy~











THUS, we encourage loyals #1 to Gather Evidence not because the sheer weight of what they discover will make the disloyal confess and save their marriage right then and there; but rather because once the loyal realizes that fidelity means "giving 100% of the affection and loyalty to your spouse" and once the loyal has even some evidence, there is a huge relief. They are NOT nuts! It's not mental illness, paranoia, anxiety kicking it, jealousy, etc. It's really, for real, happening and they can trust THEMSELVES!! So the issue here is not "Can I trust my disloyal and prove to them so they'll confess?" but rather "Can I trust myself? Can I trust my [B]instincts[/B]?"



Great response, Affaircare!

I bolded the parts that pertain to the point I was trying to make in my previous post.

Nice guy, you posed an intelligent question.I would answer, yes in some cases, by the time a spouse has to resort to snooping, a lot of damage has been done, the trust has been breached---and it may be far gone enough that reconciliation is impossible.

But there are cases where being caught and presented with evidence will snap a WS back to reality.I've read stories on this forum and others, in which that is the case---the marriage gets saved, even though it's a loooong road to re-establish trust.

In either scenario, I think finally having the full truth helps to preserve the BS's sanity, and returns a sense of having the power to make a fully informed decision about whether or not to reconcile.
How can a BS be expected to forgive----unless they know exactly what it is they're expected to forgive?

For the record, I personally don't approve of deep snooping until gaslighting has started. Once the WS has begun that type of psychological manipulation, I believe the BS is well within his/her rights to find out the truth by whatever means necessary.If only to restore their ability to trust their own instincts.

Attaining validation, and vindication after being gaslighted is worth its weight in gold, as far as I'm concerned.I get the feeling that anyone else who has been on the receiving end of gaslighting would agree with me.