My wife and I have been married for well over a decade and together for nearly 2 decades. We have been happy for the most part, however in the last few years I have become more insecure, needy and jealous to the point of damaging our marriage. During the first 10 or so years of our marriage she was more insecure and always tried to cater to my needs, but felt nothing she did was good enough. I was emotionally immature I admit. I have been a somewhat jealous person, and I have not allowed my wife to have friendships with men. However she has always said that she always had better more personal friendships with males when she was younger.
The last few years she has reached out to several male friends, mostly on Facebook, and she has had lunch maybe 1 time with several of her male friends. Because of my insecurities and jealousy I would have a difficult time with her doing that, however it manifested itself by me being needy instead of communicating how it made me feel. About 4 months ago she reached out to an old friend, they started on FB and eventually set up a lunch date, she spent several hours on the date, and I really was anxious and had a hard time with it she could see that I was having difficulty, but wanted to continue the friendship. She said his friendship helped her through some dark times in her adolescence and they were never romantic back then, and that her friendship would continue. A week later she told me she was having a lunch meeting (something she does on a regular basis), and I didn't think much of it. She got home from work and something didn't seem quite right with her. I just had a gut feeling something was off. Before bed I got into her iPhone and there was an email exchange between them that was hurtful and inappropriate. They also discussed having lunch that day. I was crushed, I felt like my world was crashing down on me. I confronted her and she admitted it and apologized. She said she wouldn't lie to me again, or email anything inappropriate to him again. Well, the damage was done at that point. My feelings of hurt and jealousy escalated to the point of panic. I was trying to get into her email and FB to see what they were saying to each other etc.. It became a very self destructive pattern to say the least. A week later I read a PM she sent to him on FB and it set me off. She was out with friends(girls) when I read her message in Facebook. I sent her a text told her to get home or I was leaving. When she got home, worried of course, I blew up and said some hurtful things, as I was hurting and it came out in a hurtful way.
To make a long story short, we are in counseling now both marriage and individually with separate counselors. She is still friends with this guy, but she is very open with me about when they meet, email and talk if I ask. She goes into great detail about her friendship with him, tells me she isn't using him for emotional support and doesn't talk with him a whole lot about our marriage problems (I don't believe her about this) but I know she talks to him about his marriage problems, she has gone into great detail with me about that.
She has said that her relationship with this friend has nothing to to with what we are going through, and that she has a lot of repressed hurt and anger about our past, and she is having a hard time getting over that, that when she gets over her hurt and anger with me and why she allowed herself to be treated badly, and I get over my jealousy and insecurities (which through counseling and time I have made great strides with) we will see where we are as a couple and has alluded to us possibly getting divorced. If I bring up her friend she gets defensive and says that its more my problem and to get over it. She is going to her second session with her counselor tomorrow and I hope that her counselor is good enough to make her realize what she is doing with this guy is destructive to our relationship.
I feel that if I act like I am OK with her friendship she will continue it and think that its OK. I really don't feel like it is a physical affair, but I do think its an emotional affair. Again if I bring up what I think I get shot down, she says I am trying to paint her into a corner and manipulate an answer out of her. I have not talked to anyone that thinks her relationship with her friend is OK and normal, but she really thinks it is, despite my feelings.
So I am to the point where I am stuck. I don't want the marriage to end and I am committed to it. I know she is making an effort and trying to be there for me emotionally but she can't seem to do it. We are continuing counseling, but we have focused on how we are communicating in our couples couseling not on her friend. I admit that our communication on an emotional level has been poor throughout our marriage, but I listen to her more and empathize more than I ever have. I think that in her mind she believes the sticking point are the problems we have had in the past, not her guy friend and I can't get her to focus on the here and now, let alone look to the future. What should I do?
It's definately an emotional affair and it may well allready be a physical one, regardless of what she says. Rarely is what they first admit to or "come clean with" really the whole story.
The relationship is completely inapropriate. It shold stop. Everyone may not agree but I personally am a proponent that at all times at all costs married people should avoid one-on-one relationships/meetings/dinners/friendships with members of the opposite sex. It really is fire that you are playing with.
Having friends of the opposite sex isn't a big deal, when handled appropriately. When you are honest and open with your spouse about your friendship, when you spouse is welcome to read your emails, listen to your conversations, and is invited (whether explicitly or a blanket invitation) to join the two, it makes it clear that it is nothing more than a friendship and not something to be worried about.
She didn't do that, though. And when told that what she was doing was bothering you, making you feel uncomfortable, and worrying you, instead of either being open immediately or ending the friendship in order to show her commitment and love to you, she continued said friendship and tried to make you feel as if you were overreacting.
Maybe you were overreacting. Maybe it was perfectly innocent. But a spouse who cares about you would say, "I think you're overreacting, but I can see that you are bothered, and I will stop this friendship because our marriage is more important." And she didn't do that.
Whether it's an affair or not doesn't matter anymore. What matters now is that she is disrespecting you and trivializing your feelings. Regardless of how she might react, bring it up in counseling. Force her to realize that this is a problem for you and is going to continue to be a problem for you. If she still refuses to end the friendship, then rather than try to figure out if she's cheating or not, you need to figure out if you can live the rest of your life with someone who isn't going to give any thought to your feelings.
Thanks for the response. I have read a lot of posts on this site and although it has some of the signs of an emotional affair and maybe even a physical one, we still have a good intimate life, she hasn't changed her appearance, she hasn't changed her habits, she tells me when they meet for lunch and hang out. If it is an affair she either is denying it to herself (if its emotional) or lying if its physical. If I confront her at all about the friend she deflects and says that I am being jealous and insecure. And that the problem she has with me is the repressed anger and hurt she is going through, that she needs time to figure it out. She does have a lot of freedom at her job and can leave the office for hours at a time, so the opportunity time wise is there, but I have no proof that it is an emotional or physical affair and I feel the only way I would be able to prove it is with an actual email or phone conversation recording, or an investigator. I am not prepared to do that, when I do those types of things it seems to consume me and I am not myself. What if I snooped into her email/phone calls/or had her followed and found nothing, she is very guarded about her email now.
Is my best option to wait it out? Or to continue to confront her about her friend and get denial after denial? She says she feel a lot of pressure, but not from me or the kids. She says the pressure is due to the fact that she cant get past her feelings of hurt and anger about our past. The therapist I went to thinks that has nothing to do with what we are going through and that its the other man as well. If I wait it out, and try to be myself as much as possible will the pressure of the other relationship overwhelm her?
We still go on dates and we do family activities, but she says she can't open up to me emotionally.
Could she be in such denial that she thinks that she isn't having an emotional affair? And if so how can I make her realize that she is without her getting so defensive and turning it back on me.
Having friends of the opposite sex isn't a big deal, when handled appropriately. When you are honest and open with your spouse about your friendship, when you spouse is welcome to read your emails, listen to your conversations, and is invited (whether explicitly or a blanket invitation) to join the two, it makes it clear that it is nothing more than a friendship and not something to be worried about.
She didn't do that, though. And when told that what she was doing was bothering you, making you feel uncomfortable, and worrying you, instead of either being open immediately or ending the friendship in order to show her commitment and love to you, she continued said friendship and tried to make you feel as if you were overreacting.
Maybe you were overreacting. Maybe it was perfectly innocent. But a spouse who cares about you would say, "I think you're overreacting, but I can see that you are bothered, and I will stop this friendship because our marriage is more important." And she didn't do that.
Whether it's an affair or not doesn't matter anymore. What matters now is that she is disrespecting you and trivializing your feelings. Regardless of how she might react, bring it up in counseling. Force her to realize that this is a problem for you and is going to continue to be a problem for you. If she still refuses to end the friendship, then rather than try to figure out if she's cheating or not, you need to figure out if you can live the rest of your life with someone who isn't going to give any thought to your feelings.
Thanks atruckersgirl. I agree with what you are saying, she knows its a problem for me, but she thinks its all my problem. She has said "if you have a problem with me being me then maybe we will get through our therapy and decide to move on, maybe we are just not compatible" I call BS on that however in many ways we have had a happy marriage. I think that she feels early on in our marriage that I didn't give any respect to her feelings and I can't say that I disagree with that assessment although she would say things have changed in that area.
And if she doesn't care about me, or give thought to my feelings then what? Move on I guess. I have not asked her if I can read the emails to her friend, but I think I know the answer and what it would lead to, she would say that I don't trust her and that I am being jealous and insecure, and its all me.
I just reread your post again, and there it is, that she would care enough to end it even if I was overreacting, and I would say that I was overreacting. But this has been a pattern with us and she said she finally decided to "dig her heels in" as she has said, and not give in this time, so maybe that is part of it as well, and maybe she is hurting to much to let the friendship go. Even at the cost of our marriage. But if she won't let me read her emails then I understand that it may be an inappropriate relationship.
She is following a script and from what you have written it certainly looks like she is in the early phase of an EA. Take this very seriously,
At the moment she is jerking you around and playing hardball with you, smile at her and play it cool.
Write a note that you can follow, in your script to her make it clear that it is wholly inappropriate that she meets, communicates or has any form of relationship with person XXX.
There is to be no further contact with him, she needs to give you unrestricted access to all communications as well as evidence where she is during the day.
Do not threaten cajole or be overbearing, be very strong, look her in the eyes and make sure she understand the seriousness of this.
Do not enter a dialog or debate with her. For her this is the last chance to come clean and stop.
For the privacy argument. Say Privacy is for the bathroom, secrecy is deceit.
She will either react badly or lie either way you proceed to plan.
Do not believe she has stopped, an affair person has the ability to hurt you, be strong, lie, cheat and use measures to facilitate the affair. Her behaviours will astound you, she may be loving and a great spouse to your face but behind your back she will be cheating.
I hope you have his contact details, better still his phone number, if not get them and furthermore start detailing the contents of the communications and the amount of time they meet.
She will probably now go underground to avoid you tracking her.
Load a keylogger on to the PC, if you need advice on a product post and I will send you one.
Track down his wife and let her know of the affair, do not be shy for if it is innocent then they have nothing to hide, as we know it is not innocent do not feel any guilt.
Go to her folks and let them know she is in an EA with XXX furthermore let her friends know and lastly at the very end if she has not stopped and provided evidence that she has call her boss and let him know she is in an emotional affair and conducting this during working hours.
The script says you are in for a rough ride, man up suck your gut in and prepare for a fight. It is going to be hurtful and unpleasant. Counselling will not help unless the affair stops.
Understand that you are now having to fight for your marriage, choose to follow a different path and it will be at your own peril.
Thanks for the response. I have read a lot of posts on this site and although it has some of the signs of an emotional affair and maybe even a physical one, we still have a good intimate life, she hasn't changed her appearance, she hasn't changed her habits, she tells me when they meet for lunch and hang out. If it is an affair she either is denying it to herself (if its emotional) or lying if its physical.
My wife spent 3 years having 2 long term affairs on me (first one physical only, second one both physical and emotional). We talked regularly, had monthly date nights and a regular and healthy sex life together during that time. Some women are very good at hiding it. I'm not saying it is definately happening here. But I am saying that just because "we have a good intimate life, and she hasn't changed habbits (that you can notice)" doesn't mean that she isn't either.
Could she be in such denial that she thinks that she isn't having an emotional affair? And if so how can I make her realize that she is without her getting so defensive and turning it back on me.
Still stuck...
Yes she can be in denial about it being an Emotional Affair. People lie even to themselves.
Get a key logger on your computer as soon as you can. It will get you the answers you need.
Ok, I am going to get a Keylogger program and install it. The problem is is that she has a work computer, that she brings home and uses some of the time, however sometimes she gets on our main family one so I am sure at some point she will use it to email him. She has a therapy session today and I think she may see her friend before or after. I have put a small gps device in the car to see if she stops by his work at any time during the day and I guess I will start doing that daily. I feel so bad that this is the only option and I feel like I am being dishonest and not trusting, but I feel that this is the only option. I think she has a new separate email address or program she uses to communicate with him. She may only use this email on her work computer though. Will a keylogger show you websites that have been deleted from the history?
Last night I told her I would be more comfortable with her friendship if I had her email address and password and if there was transparency in the relationship, but she shot me down very quickly and said that it is something personal to her and that she shouldn't need to share everything in her life with me. I said I agree and if you have a journal then you can write down things that no one else including me should see. But in all other regards she should share with me, if not then yes we have bigger problems.
I wrote a list about all the things she has told me about the relationship or that I know about it, and I don't see how it can't be an emotional affair. I think I need to gather proof, email, and how many days/how long per visit she is spending with him. If I find enough proof in those things I will confront her.
When I try to be coy about the relationship with him, but probe her she says I am trying to paint her into a corner and manipulate an answer out of her that she is not going to give me. If I tell her directly that I have a problem with it she says I don't understand her and that she needs time to work out her emotions and hurt from our past and she can't be here for me the way that I want her to be. I really feel that she is lying to herself and that this is all me problem, thats what makes it so hard. She is a very reasonable rational smart person, why can't she see that she is in a EA?
She does know that it is, she is beging defensive. Deny, lie, defensive, don't open up, doesn't want transparency ... it's right out of the cheaters handbook. Read some of the other threads here, so many of our stories are so eerily similar because they all play out of the same handbook.
Slow steps. Your wife can savour the moment when she falls it must be hard and you must be there to recover the marriage.
Make sure you draw up a plan and follow it.
As for the work computer, keep an eye on it, if she pops to the loo have a peek, not to long and do not get caught. If it is locked then you know for sure. This could be an advantage for if she is using the company laptop HR teams have a dim view of affairs on company time and property.
A hidden email account is a probability.
Will a keylogger show you websites that have been deleted from the history?
- I believe they do
Will a keylogger show you websites that have been deleted from the history?
- I believe they do
Not only do they show you the sites, most have views where you go through and literally see every single thing that was done on that computer. So if she is having a conversation with him (or someone else) on facebook, you not only see that she was on facebook you literally can go through and read the entire conversation.
I have not directly told her that the relationship with him needs to end, actually I did in the beginning, but I relented and told her I did not want her to resent me for making her end it. I realize now that was a mistake, I should have stuck to my guns. I thought she would be able to see on her own that it was destructive to our marriage, and one of the issues we are working on is that I can be controlling.
Tomorrow we have a couples counseling session and I am going to tell her that I think the relationship she is having is detrimental to our marriage with the difficulty we are going through and that it needs to end. I don't know how the counselor will react, because we have mostly focused on communicating better and dealing with my anxiety/insecurity/jealousy. I know whenever I bring it up at home she gets defensive, but I have not directly told her it needs to end and it is inappropriate since the beginning when it blew up.. If she chooses not to end it or decides to go underground with it then I will take the next step.
I have a hard time giving in and checking her email/FB and phone records, because this was one of the things that feeds my insecurities and when I did that in the past my fears were unfounded. I know In the past my insecurity/neediness and jealousy were detrimental to our marriage and more than likely that is why she feels she needs this friendship. I will see how it goes at the session tomorrow I guess.
Here's the problem, Stuckinahardplace. In real life you are still being controlling. Want to know how I can tell? YOU are telling HER what she can and can not do, namely that she "has to end" the relationship with the OM. So Stuck, let me remind you that you can not control or change HER. You can only control and change YOU.
In practical terms that means you can not tell her that she has to end that relationship. What if she doesn't want to? That means she either has to be defiant or she has to lie to you. What you can do is tell her what YOU will do and what is good for you. For example: "It is my personal opinion and observation that continuing the relationship with <OM> is harming our marriage and I know it is hurting me severely. Thus, I have decided I am not willing to be your doormat. I request that you think of what we have together and volunteer to never contact <OM> again, but if you are not willing to do that, I'm also not willing to fund the gravy train so you can carry on with another man."
See, a boundary is not a rule you set up for HER to follow. A boundary is for YOU. It's saying "...Here is the fence around me, the border, and here is what I will and will not allow in the space around me." You could say, "If you want to be with me and enjoy the benefits I can offer, I do not accept a partner who continues adultery. I need at minimum a spouse who will treat me with respect." Thus, if she wants to continue with the OM she can respect you enough to leave you and let OM give her cake so she can eat it too :P
Stuck in a hard place don't know where to go 
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