Now her lack of forgiveness is one of the reasons we find ourselves in this situation. I'm not saying that nothing I did didn't warrant some anger, but as a Christian, I believe what the bible says about love being blind.
Then as a Christian I think you'll recall that passage in the bible that says a man that puts away his wife for the sake of fornicating causes her to commit adultery. So i guess biblically speaking, you need to apologize once for fornicating and then again for causing her to commit adultery. Fools are blind. Love is honest. Your wife has been a fool for years but i think she's finally starting to be honest.
Then as a Christian I think you'll recall that passage in the bible that says a man that puts away his wife for the sake of fornicating causes her to commit adultery. So i guess biblically speaking, you need to apologize once for fornicating and then again for causing her to commit adultery. Fools are blind. Love is honest. Your wife has been a fool for years but i think she's finally starting to be honest.
I admit to the porn issue but it was a fantasy world I lived in that didn't involved any contact with another individual. Last I checked, fornication involves voluntary intercouse between two who are not married to one another. I can and have apologized for the porn viewing, but I can't apologize for her making her choice to go outside the marriage. Are the issues we are dealing with fixable? Yes. Have I overlooked her many flaws? Yes. I have a hard time naming many of her issues, not because there are none, but because I love her and they are irrelevant. Posted via Mobile Device
I admit to the porn issue but it was a fantasy world I lived in that didn't involved any contact with another individual. Last I checked, fornication involves voluntary intercouse between two who are not married to one another. I can and have apologized for the porn viewing, but I can't apologize for her making her choice to go outside the marriage. Are the issues we are dealing with fixable? Yes. Have I overlooked her many flaws? Yes. I have a hard time naming many of her issues, not because there are none, but because I love her and they are irrelevant.
Couple of things to point out: the passage to which the above poster referred actually says "...But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become an adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery..." - that is, with the exception of sex outside the marriage, a divorce causes the wife to become an 'adulteress.' (Matt 5:31-32). Paul explains that passage in more depth in 1 Corinthians 7.
But it does point to a much deeper thread of thought that runs with Jesus' and Paul's advice on marriage: the husband is indeed held responsible for the spiritual life of his family. He is by nature the leader of the family, and his choices tend to influence his family's decisions. Keep that in mind when you do approach the porn 'addiction' you talk about.
A more relevant passage, one that addresses your objection, is one that you should be paying more attention to:
"...But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart..."
The idea of a 'fantasy world which didn't involve contact with another individual' is irrelevant in your case: you claim to be a Christian. This idea has NOTHING to do with physical touch - what is involved is the breaking of your covenant (the contract you made with your wife). A great verse that refers to the importance of that contract is "...Whatever your lips utter you must be sure to do, because you made your vow freely to the LORD your God with your own mouth..." (Deuteronomy 23:23). The error of adultery is the idea of turning to another person for something that is designed to be between you and your spouse.
Note: that is why I always say that it is virtually irrelevant whether an affair is emotional or physical. A PA simply involves possible health issues. But the issue is that the unfaithful spouse is turning to someone BESIDES their spouse for the things that ONLY their spouse should be giving them.
Having said that, keep in mind that you do not need to apologize for your wife making the choice to go outside the marriage. Instead, you should be making some intense study of your marriage, finding out the innate problems that created the ENVIRONMENT where this choice seem acceptable. Get rid of those.
And part of those issues are directly related to your porn 'addiction'. Most likely not all, but that was damaging to your wife - it was certainly not a moral means of leading your family.
Keep this in mind as well: a person's flaws are not irrelevant - they are things that need to be worked on. Love does not ignore them - it helps a person overcome them. Keeping score is most certainly wrong - it is a lack of forgiveness. But ignoring them is also as damaging. If these are not addressed, there is a lack of growth - and as the leader in your home, you have a job to do: lead your family toward improvement. And the start is right there with you - ending the things you know are wrong. You've made a great start.
Couple of things to point out: the passage to which the above poster referred actually says "...But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become an adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery..." - that is, with the exception of sex outside the marriage, a divorce causes the wife to become an 'adulteress.' (Matt 5:31-32). Paul explains that passage in more depth in 1 Corinthians 7.
But it does point to a much deeper thread of thought that runs with Jesus' and Paul's advice on marriage: the husband is indeed held responsible for the spiritual life of his family. He is by nature the leader of the family, and his choices tend to influence his family's decisions. Keep that in mind when you do approach the porn 'addiction' you talk about.
A more relevant passage, one that addresses your objection, is one that you should be paying more attention to:
"...But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart..."
The idea of a 'fantasy world which didn't involve contact with another individual' is irrelevant in your case: you claim to be a Christian. This idea has NOTHING to do with physical touch - what is involved is the breaking of your covenant (the contract you made with your wife). A great verse that refers to the importance of that contract is "...Whatever your lips utter you must be sure to do, because you made your vow freely to the LORD your God with your own mouth..." (Deuteronomy 23:23). The error of adultery is the idea of turning to another person for something that is designed to be between you and your spouse.
Note: that is why I always say that it is virtually irrelevant whether an affair is emotional or physical. A PA simply involves possible health issues. But the issue is that the unfaithful spouse is turning to someone BESIDES their spouse for the things that ONLY their spouse should be giving them.
Having said that, keep in mind that you do not need to apologize for your wife making the choice to go outside the marriage. Instead, you should be making some intense study of your marriage, finding out the innate problems that created the ENVIRONMENT where this choice seem acceptable. Get rid of those.
And part of those issues are directly related to your porn 'addiction'. Most likely not all, but that was damaging to your wife - it was certainly not a moral means of leading your family.
Keep this in mind as well: a person's flaws are not irrelevant - they are things that need to be worked on. Love does not ignore them - it helps a person overcome them. Keeping score is most certainly wrong - it is a lack of forgiveness. But ignoring them is also as damaging. If these are not addressed, there is a lack of growth - and as the leader in your home, you have a job to do: lead your family toward improvement. And the start is right there with you - ending the things you know are wrong. You've made a great start.
Ok. I've disclosed to someone we both respect and look up to and my wife won't even speak to her. I think it's due to the other person asking if she wanted to talk and not saying "I need to talk to you". I've told my family, her family, and a few respected members of our church. He mother basically told me that I should just accept it. Should I have asked them to try and speak to her or is just telling them enough? Should I tell more people? Am I now ready move to the 'carrot and stick' phase? Can this works if we are in separate places? What is the recommended tine frame for this phase? Is this where you do the 180? Any feedback would be appreciated.... Posted via Mobile Device
I think you're getting some great input, but I'm going to cut to the chase; you need to let go of the idea that any of this changes at all any time soon.
You have a lot of work to do on your own self-esteem, self-control, boundaries, and a 'mission' to live by. Your 'mission' should not be 'I want to get my wife back'. If you reconcile it will be incidental to the other positive changes you have made, not a result of having made them.
Yes, go back to them and tell them what she's doing, ask them to talk to her. I would tell as many people as she cares about, people she wouldn't WANT to know what she is doing. If she's going to cheat, she has to deal with the stigma. Make sure you let her know she's welcome back home as soon as she chooses one man only, you. Expect her to be mad when they start calling her.
Ok. I've disclosed to someone we both respect and look up to and my wife won't even speak to her. I think it's due to the other person asking if she wanted to talk and not saying "I need to talk to you". I've told my family, her family, and a few respected members of our church. He mother basically told me that I should just accept it. Should I have asked them to try and speak to her or is just telling them enough? Should I tell more people? Am I now ready move to the 'carrot and stick' phase? Can this works if we are in separate places? What is the recommended tine frame for this phase? Is this where you do the 180? Any feedback would be appreciated.... Posted via Mobile Device
My pastor has decided that since my wife will not come to him, he's going to go to her. I've told him about everything I know. I also told him that my request was not for him to ask her to come back to me but to let her know that he knows about what she's been doing. I think this will have an affect on her because she's always been one who cared about what others thought. But who knows what will happen during this fog. She doesn't know that our families both already know. I hope this will snap her out. I'm convinced it's more the fog than what I've done because one of her texts to a friend stated that she was going to end things with me because I wanted her to stop what she was doing.
Another question...how do you deal with the fury that comes as a result of disclosure. I know she's gonna be really mad. Is that what will break her from the fog? Posted via Mobile Device
My pastor has decided that since my wife will not come to him, he's going to go to her. I've told him about everything I know. I also told him that my request was not for him to ask her to come back to me but to let her know that he knows about what she's been doing. I think this will have an affect on her because she's always been one who cared about what others thought.
I'll be blunt, marksaysay--this is one of the wisest things I've seen you do. The bold part is particularly on the money. You know how Tanelorn and I operate, and I would have to say that a certain period of time separated, wherein you prove yourself and commitment to dealing with your porn issue, would be appropriate. During the time apart, the proper biblical response on her side would be to continue honoring God and her marriage. Thus, it's not the time apart that's the problem, but her response of turning outside her marriage unfaithfully.
You need to make sure the phone pole is out of your own eye and work on your porn problems.
She needs to make sure the phone pole is out of her eye and work on her infidelity problems.
THEN you two could come together and rebuild a Godly, loving marriage.
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But who knows what will happen during this fog. She doesn't know that our families both already know. I hope this will snap her out. I'm convinced it's more the fog than what I've done because one of her texts to a friend stated that she was going to end things with me because I wanted her to stop what she was doing.
Well bear in mind that she will likely say anything she thinks she "has to" in order to magnify the problems in the marriage and minimize the problems with infidelity. Likewise, she'll say anything to maximize the benefits of being unfaithful and justify it...and minimize the costs of adultery. So her saying that to her friend is very likely her way of trying to convince the friend what a horrible monster you are..and that's why she has to dishonor her covenant!
Okay so you've told your pastor and he's going to "go to her" (YES! Thank you God for a strong pastor). Let's pray about that meeting together, and you continue on working on keeping pure eyes. Are you doing a bible study on fidelity or faithfulness? That might be helpful--hint, hint. I suspect it may also be helpful in renewing your mind to learn about what God thinks about fidelity both in marriage and His own faithfulness.
Just remember that your WS WILL be mad that you exposed. They are SUPPOSED to be mad. That means that exposure WORKED!
Just smile, refuse to be drawn into a pointless discussion, and say "I'm trying to save my married from your adultery."
Okay, my wife was furious that I told her mother. She was furious that I knew about another man whom she continues to lie about. She said they only exchanged a picture to put in their contacts, but why would you do that at 2 am and why are there 4 or 5 pictures from each of them. She's mad that I found out through our joint cell phone accounts. She says that I'm "stalking" her because I keep finding out about her lies. I found out today that she still hadn't paid the fee for the divorce, but she said she would do it on Monday. She said that last week, too. I also found out today that she did cheat,which I already felt she did. She said that I need to get it in my head that she doesn't want me. I'm almost beginning to believe her. She's supposed to meet with our pastor tomorrow and I know she's gonna be furious that he knows. Is this all a part of the "fog" or should I stop while I have my sanity? She seems to really have her mind made up.
She's been so untruthful to me at this point, I don't really know what to believe. She has really made me feel as if she doesn't really love me anymore. When I told her that I was fighting for my family, she said there is no family anymore. But what do I believe. She lied about the getting off of the dating website. She lied about people from the website having her phone number. She lied about not knowing the guy I caught her with. She lied when she said hadn't cheated on me. She lied about everything, so what do I believe.
Stay calm. She is trying to create CHAOS based on what you know.
Remain calm.
YOU know what's going on.
The more she tries to make YOU look bad, the worse she looks.
Stay calm.
So you don't think I was wrong for doing any of the things I did? Did I stalk her? Should I not give up and continue on with the 7 steps from affaircare's site? Is it a good thing that she's so angry about me calling her mom? I just want to gain some type of reassurance that I'm on the right path. She really made me believe that she's done and that she didn't care about who knew about her infidelity. She's said that she now no longer has even a desire to be friends with me, not knowing that I really can't and don't want to be friends with her. I want to be her husband and lifelong partner, and if I can't, then I won't be her friend.
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Re: Could someone explain this "fog" 
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