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Paralyzed by indecision.

150K views 583 replies 98 participants last post by  weightlifter 
#1 ·
Since going into details would consume and ungodly amount of time and energy let me just ask the following;

How do I combat an Emotional Affair?

How do I get her to admit to rug sweeping?

How do I combat the situation with the affair underground?

How do I get her to realize the damage that she has done?

Am I willing to kill the relationship between us? - Yes

Do I want to? - No

Yes, Kids are involved.

No, It has not gone Physical, but I cannot disprove phone sexting.

I am the bread winner.

She refuses to go transparent at all.

She insists he no longer feels in love with her nor her with him. (Details on this if asked can be provided)

She still has him as a FB Friend, but a hidden one and has removed me from her list.

When I asked to see her phone I got derailed by lame excuses, one such as she needs to trust me (WTF?) and was swiftly distracted by her engaging in physical intimacy, a classic maneuver.

After utilizing several tactics have caught her telling lies about what they talked about or what she has told him about what has happened around here since I threatened to kick her out. Hint, Liars cannot re-tell stories based on lies due to no foundation for the memory to latch onto nor can she tell the story backwards. When tasked by this she gets completely flustered and doesn't remember.

And the classic line, "I need to find myself" .

I need some advice from some seasoned veterans, please fire away, hold nothing back. And if by chance there are any ladies lurking, let me know from a woman's perspective.
 
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#84 ·
Yes I have been readi it and frightening enough most of the descriptions fit me to a tee. I got to the point about standing up for my own needs whatever they mey be and that the side effect of my behavior change is either my marriage will thrive or be put to a long overdue death, which I think the latter is the only option at this point.

I have printed out Divorce papers and have the intention of presenting them tomorrow. I have put up with the abuse long enough. And the feeling is scary as hell.
 
#86 ·
She still has him as a FB Friend, but a hidden one and has removed me from her list.
Block Facebook's aiP address at your router. This is what I did when my wife 'reconnected' with an Ex.

When I asked to see her phone I got derailed by lame excuses, one such as she needs to trust me (WTF?) and was swiftly distracted by her engaging in physical intimacy, a classic maneuver.


Take her phone and 'lose it'. Fling it against a rock or just stomp on it. That stops the texting.



And the classic line, "I need to find myself" .


I would tell her to take all the time she needs to find herself .... Right after you have her served.
 
#91 ·
Your continued inability to put your foot down is the answer she is looking for. Your choosing to not doing anything serious about it just shows her it is ok to continue her behavior. What you fear most is what you are bringing upon yourself. No woman will want to be with a man that has no backbone.
 
#92 ·
Update time, and I don't know where to begin. Well, I called the OM's mother and sent a FB message to his step-mother and that drew a very telling response. He, naturally, texted her on what I did and she became beyond furious. Her excuse was that she did not want more people drawn into this.

I also, after a few weeks of her getting irratable at nearly everything I did or didn't do per se I took her phone just before she went to work, now I paid for it and the service, without my initial knowledge and her reaction to this.........

I am missing a front pane of my front screen door, she destroyed several personal and irreplaceable possesions of value, like say a Mug my children made for me last fathers day, a Snow Globe we got for our 10 year mark that had a bride and groom within it and tossed the nearly every room in the house.

took me hours to clean it up.

She has also become angry that I will not release any proof or other items I have on this affair. SHe angrily proclaims "It's over!!!!" whenever I push to see behind closed doors yet STILL will not show me her E-mails, Cell phone or anything else. Unfortunateley she was able to get the phone back....

Life shouldn't be this hard, shoud it?
 
#94 ·
My XW has a permanent no trespassing order over her doing that. She pushed passed the kids while I was at work and started taking things off the walls (Pictures and Christmas Decorations).

It took a day for the cops to get to her but they made it clear she was no longer welcome. They even told her if she parks on my side of the street they will come arrest her. Its been seven years and still still parks on the other side of the street to get them. I still smile when I think about it. :)


Clay
 
#96 ·
Ugh, it hasn't begun yet. I keep getting what is called Hoovering, sucked back into it. I did however clear my last obstacle concerning child care so theres that.

I told her if she wants to just walk, but the children are staying... This is not met with enthusiasm. Then she calmly claims to want to work things out, we talk for about three hours or so, feel better but repeat the cycle of her reluctance to come clean, become transparent or do the heavy lifting, or more accureatley any lifting, and then it starts all over again. Hell, I didn't even get a Fathers day card from her nor did she even say "Happy Father's Day".

If I wasn;t in CT I would have began the process already.
 
#98 ·
Hell, I didn't even get a Fathers day card from her nor did she even say "Happy Father's Day".

If I wasn;t in CT I would have began the process already.
IIJokerII, these two sentences perfectly demonstrate why you are paralyzed by indecision, as your thread title notes.

You have serious, gigantic problems in your marriage. And, rather than keep discussing them, you choose to focus on......

"Darn it, she didn't get me a Father's Day card! Heck. Shoot. Gosh Dang it!!!!!"

If ONLY she had gotten you a Father's Day card! IF ONLY! That was the ONE WAY she could have shown you that she really, really cared.

Yet much more importantly, you can focus your shriveled outrage on this neglectful insult, and not pay attention to all the other problems that you are allowing to continue in the relationship because YOU won't make any changes.

But you have a good reason for not making changes, at least.....

You live in CT!

Darn your bad luck. If only you lived in one of the other 49 states, or DC, or Canada or Mexico or Europe, man, that bitc, oops, sorry, almost called her a naughty word! What if she heard me type that???? She might look at me mean!

Anyway, yeah, if only you lived ANYWHERE else, well, by golly, you would have shown her the door by now. And opened it and closed it for her, wiped her shoes on your sleeve, and asked her how high she wanted you to jump.

Look, dude. You have gotten great advice on this thread, 99% of which you have ignored. The other 1% you have agreed was good advice and then not done that, either.

I'm sure every single person who has commented here feels really bad for you with respect to the situation you're in. Wouldn't you rather that they feel GOOD for you, when they read an update where you have DONE SOMETHING and MADE SOME PROGRESS and GOTTEN BETTER?

You should try doing that- you might even find that YOU feel better.
 
#97 ·
Joker, I really don't understand what you're so confused about. There can be no reconciliation unless the both of you are 110% committed to it; for her that starts with absolute, compete, and total transparency. F*ck man... she should have offered that freely but, since she didn't, she should have at least consented to it once you insisted upon it. Her refusal to do this should tell you all that you need to know -- she's still lying to you.

Hit her w/ divorce papers and, if it's an option to you (and you have proof to back it up, sounds like you may not), cite infidelity as the cause.

Establish the 180. Don't engage her at all regarding anything that doesn't involve the kids' schedules, day-to-day house-keeping stuff, etc. Don't talk w/ her about your relationship at all. Additionally, it seems like she knows that all she has to do to pull you back in when you start to detach or *shudder* grow a spine and start to stand up for yourself is to initiate "sexytime". Stop falling for this.

Once she's gotten a taste of Joker-180, she might press you to attend marriage counseling. If so, tell her that the only way that you'll consider it is if she commits to 100% transparency, which means handing over passwords to everything -- all devices, all e-mail accounts, and all social media accounts. She might say something like "OK, but give me a couple of days..." NO. This will only give her time to delete any evidence. Once you have this access, if you get the sense that she's deleted e-mails, FB messages, etc, you immediately call off MC and proceed w/ divorce.

Additionally, you will temporarily take complete ownership of her social media accounts so that you can "purge" them of unwanted friends as you see fit -- OM is gone and blocked, any suspected OMs are gone and blocked, toxic friends are gone and blocked, you are no longer "unfriended", etc.

Oh, and most importantly...

DNA your kids. If you get a negative result back for any of them, you pull chocks and aggressively proceed w/ divorce. This does not, however, mean that you stop being a father to your children. You've raised them and, to them, you're Dad. Don't stop being Dad.

Just stop being your WW's doormat husband.
 
#101 ·
My apologies if I came off as a little mean-spirited. But I think I'm angrier over what your wife is doing to you than you are.

You keep posting stuff like, "her reaction was 'telling,' " as if you are still trying to figure out what she is up to.

Someone posted here about a voice-activated recorder. Have you tried putting one or two of those in the house and one in her car? There's a guy here who posts very detailed instructions, even tells what model to buy and where to buy it, how to place it, like a "How to Catch Cheaters for Dummies" book. Maybe if you hear what she's saying to this guy when you're not around that will provide some motivation to take action.

Did you also mention your wife bought the How to Divorce for Dummies book? Why don't you buy a copy of your own and leave it under her pillow?

Speaking of pillows, through all of this craziness, are you two still getting busy?
 
#103 ·
Someone posted here about a voice-activated recorder. Have you tried putting one or two of those in the house and one in her car? There's a guy here who posts very detailed instructions, even tells what model to buy and where to buy it, how to place it, like a "How to Catch Cheaters for Dummies" book. Maybe if you hear what she's saying to this guy when you're not around that will provide some motivation to take action.
Joker, you should also have a VAR on you at all times in her presence. With the way she is acting, you are a prime candidate for false domestic charges being brought against you. Don't take this lightly. It's happened way too many times before.
 
#102 ·
How do I combat an Emotional Affair?


No, It has not gone Physical, but I cannot disprove phone sexting.
Well, let me assure of one basic certainty.

No one ever got pregnant from only being involved solely in an Emotional Affair!
 
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#104 ·
It's unfortunate she's pregnant, but her stress is caused by her attitude and behavior, and not by what appear to be reasonable actions taken on your part.

It seems to me you have all the power, but you're giving it all away, or at least you're letting her take it from you. How can you tolerate her behavior? It's so selfish and entitled... and down right mean... that a Father's Day card should be the least of your concerns. If she gave you a card, at this point, I would suspect it as a trap, i.e., she wants or needs something from you.

I understand wanting things to work for the kids and the dream of the relationship you once had, but sometimes it's better to split, and split before more damage is done. I say this both as a dad in a R and the product of a broken marriage. When I was a child, I saw things like what your wife did, and worse, and I've never forgotten. You can't throw temper tantrums, hit/break things, probably curse, etc in a child's home. She doesn't sound like a very good role model.

She is scared. You're close to realizing the truth. Her carefully constructed reality is crashing around her, and you're letting her intimidate you. You're letting your fear paralyze you. If you really want to divorce, then go ahead, and if you really want to reconcile, then tell her the way things must go down for that to happen.
Whooaaaaa... She's pregnant? Did I miss that?!?
 
#105 ·
It's unfortunate she's pregnant, but her stress is caused by her attitude and behavior, and not by what appear to be reasonable actions taken on your part.

It seems to me you have all the power, but you're giving it all away, or at least you're letting her take it from you. How can you tolerate her behavior? It's so selfish and entitled... and down right mean... that a Father's Day card should be the least of your concerns. If she gave you a card, at this point, I would suspect it as a trap, i.e., she wants or needs something from you.

I understand wanting things to work for the kids, and the dream of the relationship you once had; but sometimes it's better to split, and split before more damage is done. I say this both as a dad in a R and the product of a broken marriage. When I was a child, I saw things like what your wife did, and worse, and I've never forgotten. You can't throw temper tantrums, hit/break things, probably curse, etc in a child's home. She doesn't sound like a very good role model.

She is scared. You're close to realizing the truth. Her carefully constructed reality is crashing around her, and you're letting her intimidate you. You're letting your fear paralyze you. If you really want to divorce, then go ahead, and if you really want to reconcile, then tell her the way things must go down for that to happen.
FDR: So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is fear itself—nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.
Remember that when you get Hoovered.
 
#108 ·
This goes on as long as the OP wants it, usually 100 pages of mega beta, softly softly, indecision in the face of unrelenting lack of remorse.

This guy seems to talk a good game and is very descriptive yet strangely docile. She smashed up stuff and showed extreme violence, yet he cleaned it up? Cue indignation and DIVORCE HER.. I strangely don't see paralysis here...something else entirely
 
#109 ·
I Fondly appreciate the honesty, however brutal, yet true it may be. So lets get to details on certain unanswered questions.

Living in Connecticut, this is not the place where common logic or what's "best" for the child applies. The courts do not take into account about who was the aggressor or primary party in the dissolving of the marriage, in most cases, and do not care what the circumstances are. Could I lose my house, maybe, and yes it is my house. Although we were married when I bought the home I was the one who moved everything into it, worked to pay for it, mostly, and maintained it and kept it clean. I did not realize the sheer lopsided caretaking between me and her due to my indoctrination of her needs. I did the dishes, the laundry, cooking, cleaning, and played with the children whenever possible. This while also working usually 6 days a week to pay for it all.

Yes, I cleaned up her rage mess, after I took photos and explained to our eldest son what had happened due to me taking her phone. He, like myself, is also convinced she is lying, since he see's the same sh!t I do. This is from an 11 year old. Besides, I can't have a 7 & 6 year exposed to this environment.

The preggers thing is not related to this affair but one of 7 years past that was a proven EA but more than obvious PA (Although I will grow wings before she ever admits it despite the evidence). I know she met him on 2 separate occasions at least (Her Ex-BF) once during her work hours (FCKR brought her flowers on Valentines day) and once was a lovely all day adventure where she claimed to be at a training course for her job. I found this out weeks later on D-Day (Day after my Birthday) and laid into her. She was willing to reconcile and denied anything but kissing happened (Uh-huh). However soon after she was pregnant and of course I asked if this child was mine, which she claimed it was. Her Much later though I found and several E-mails she sent to him to which she informed him she was pregnant, followed up by "Looks like we're having a Girl, I guess things happen for a reason". I have gotten about five different answers save for the obvious one. most people agree with my perception that she did sleep with him and simply didn't know. I did eventually get a DNA test done for my Daughter and thankfully the results were in my favor. I have not told her I had the test done....Yet. But she is not Pregnant now. Sorry to Quinton Tarentino my story here.

I talked to a Local police officer who said although a VAR cannot be used in court it can be used for personal use, which I have one on hand. She also said that if I called for any issue; Threats or attempts at suicide or Domestic disturbance that impartial or unbiased assessment of the situation would be used. Made me feel a little better. I did put a VAR in the house and her Van and it came back clean. However I believe she is playing it safe rather than risk calling and is texting only.

As for the Fathers day card, it is not about needing to feel loved, or whatever else one may think but it is an indication of effort, even if it just a little. Hell, just getting a "Happy Father's Day" would have been good enough.

SO much more to say....
 
#113 ·
I know she met him on 2 separate occasions at least (Her Ex-BF) once during her work hours (FCKR brought her flowers on Valentines day) and once was a lovely all day adventure where she claimed to be at a training course for her job. I found this out weeks later on D-Day (Day after my Birthday) and laid into her. She was willing to reconcile and denied anything but kissing happened (Uh-huh).
1) Bringing flowers to a married woman at her work is the other man (OM) publicly claiming her. This is very disrespectful to you and your marraige. The OM would not have done this without earlier encouragement from your wife.

2) Lying to you that she was at a work related training course so the she could spend the day with the OM, even if it did not go further than kissing (which is highly unlikely), is her dating another man. Married woman do not date other men. That is just part of the deal. In her marriage vow she promised to forsake all others. She broke her marraige vows.

3) When you state "She was willing to reconcile" it shows that you have it backwards. The question should have been if you were "willing to reconcile". She was the one that cheated, not you. You did nothing wrong for her to not want to reconcile. As a cheater of course she would want to cake eat. She gets to cheat with other men, while having you there to pay the bills, take care of the children, clean the house, etc. Again, why would her being "willing to reconcile" ever be in question?
 
#110 ·
You wanted it rough, so here you go.

Let's see...

Your wife is a serial cheater.
Your wife is still having at least one affair.
Your wife is mentally unstable and trashes the house when her affair might be discovered.
Your younger daughter is likely not your kid.
You are miserable.
Your kids (or at least the older ones) are catching on.

And yet you are still afraid of leaving her for some reason.

Why? How could your life or any future relationship be any worse?
 
#112 ·
As for the Fathers day card, it is not about needing to feel loved, or whatever else one may think but it is an indication of effort, even if it just a little. Hell, just getting a "Happy Father's Day" would have been good enough.
I get it. You seem to be a good father, so if it helps, happy belated Father's Day. :)

With regards to the kids, I just want to emphasize again that they're going to pick up on what's happening around them, if they haven't already, regardless of whether you stay or go. If you keep tolerating your wife's behavior instead of putting her in check, it's only a matter of time. Stand up for your kids if you won't stand up for yourself. Stand up for your family. Who will the kids look up to if their mom cheats, lies, and smashes things and their father just keeps trying to clean up her messes by himself? What lessons will they learn?

The problem is with her, and it only continues for as long as you tolerate it. If you don't want to divorce, then at least throw down the gauntlet and don't back down.
 
#119 ·
It does suck. A realization you have to make, and maybe you're making that realization, is that taking the bull by the horns is the best option. You don't have control over her actions or what has happened in the past, but you can decide what you will/won't allow going forward. When you let things slide it sends a message. "Keep doing what you're doing - I won't stop you." When you back down, she gets the message. When she keeps doing you wrong and you forgive her or back down from real consequences, she gets the message.

You're scared of losing something, and that something might not be there anymore. It probably isn't. Even if it is there, you have to realize that being at peace with losing what you have is the only way you'll ever get anything back... with or without her.
 
#121 ·
Update time!

Yesterday morning after we talked for a bit she did something that took me by surprise and showed me, finally, the text messages between them. It was simultaneously a relief and infuriating.

Although It appears that the relationship did die out it was not due to her doing the right thing and standing up for her marriage. But more so that he became busy with work and could no longer keep up with the and sustain the amount of time they were talking. Yes, I was, am, plan B.

Our MC sessions were on one occasion referenced and mocked.

She made it clear to point out that she thought it was funny to make me seem paranoid, to which he of course also thought it was funny.

She relayed to him whenever I pushed back or after me and her would fight about this situation. He'd offer his emotional support and blah blah. But the gag here is that they both took not only offense but also surprise by me having the nerve to have a problem. I have never witnessed such delusional thinking before.

We can chalk this up to false reconciliation. And before I get bombed with the I told you so's I did not say with oblivious feeling that I trusted her.

There was a lot of little other Sh1tty things, the standard stuff I am sure. I was numb after she showed me the texts and could clearly see the she had the shakes while doing so, although I am sure it was more from what my reaction would be rather than some moral BS about hurting one's spouse.
 
#122 ·
Update time!

Yesterday morning after we talked for a bit she did something that took me by surprise and showed me, finally, the text messages between them. It was simultaneously a relief and infuriating.

Although It appears that the relationship did die out it was not due to her doing the right thing and standing up for her marriage. But more so that he became busy with work and could no longer keep up with the and sustain the amount of time they were talking. Yes, I was, am, plan B.

Our MC sessions were on one occasion referenced and mocked.

She made it clear to point out that she thought it was funny to make me seem paranoid, to which he of course also thought it was funny.

She relayed to him whenever I pushed back or after me and her would fight about this situation. He'd offer his emotional support and blah blah. But the gag here is that they both took not only offense but also surprise by me having the nerve to have a problem. I have never witnessed such delusional thinking before.

We can chalk this up to false reconciliation. And before I get bombed with the I told you so's I did not say with oblivious feeling that I trusted her.

There was a lot of little other Sh1tty things, the standard stuff I am sure. I was numb after she showed me the texts and could clearly see the she had the shakes while doing so, although I am sure it was more from what my reaction would be rather than some moral BS about hurting one's spouse.
Get rid of her pronto!!

Do 180

File divorce
 
#127 ·
Honestly, I cannot see a reason going forward at all. None. I am still taking in the information. Her also seemingly expecting me to just take it in stride is also a crock of sh1t. How dare I get mad?!!!

Yes, they were at first expressing their love (Barf) is many ways, referenced sex a few times from this group of text messages. This was during the initial stages of "Quit or your out" demand. Had I known of this place earlier I would have handled it much more aptly. We have also not gone to a therapist regularly since March, the reason being is from her not trying to get the needed day off to attend, and from seeing the mocking comments I now know why.

Getting off track a little, as the time progressed the texts and calls slowed and the "I Love You's" began to wane to non existence. He became busy with work, hey, just like me, and simply reduced his attempts at contacting her. She, on the other hand, tried only slightly harder and appeared to let it go. Supposedly they had a phone call about their feelings and how stupid they were for feeling them, I use stupid as my opinion and not her words but you get the idea.

As for her phone, it is a ATT go phone, no records to find out, are there? If so please advise since it was my Debit card that was used.
 
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