Since going into details would consume and ungodly amount of time and energy let me just ask the following;
How do I combat an Emotional Affair?
How do I get her to admit to rug sweeping?
How do I combat the situation with the affair underground?
How do I get her to realize the damage that she has done?
Am I willing to kill the relationship between us? - Yes
Do I want to? - No
Yes, Kids are involved.
No, It has not gone Physical, but I cannot disprove phone sexting.
I am the bread winner.
She refuses to go transparent at all.
She insists he no longer feels in love with her nor her with him. (Details on this if asked can be provided)
She still has him as a FB Friend, but a hidden one and has removed me from her list.
When I asked to see her phone I got derailed by lame excuses, one such as she needs to trust me (WTF?) and was swiftly distracted by her engaging in physical intimacy, a classic maneuver.
After utilizing several tactics have caught her telling lies about what they talked about or what she has told him about what has happened around here since I threatened to kick her out. Hint, Liars cannot re-tell stories based on lies due to no foundation for the memory to latch onto nor can she tell the story backwards. When tasked by this she gets completely flustered and doesn't remember.
And the classic line, "I need to find myself" .
I need some advice from some seasoned veterans, please fire away, hold nothing back. And if by chance there are any ladies lurking, let me know from a woman's perspective.
that last email about the 'were having a girl, I guess these things happen for a reason' would have pushed me over the edge. Either she's messing with you bc she knows you're checking texts…or she's way out of line texting that to another. it also implies, she's not very confident in her decisions, and she's certainly not tactful. put yourself in the other guys shoes. you're mess in' with some woman who's married. if she's pregnant, he's about to run the other way and fast.
as for the relationship…. you need to ask yourself what kind of woman she is. is she a drama queen? needs spice? is she a wanderer? my wife is a 'librarian' type. I went through this garbage 4 yrs ago and it still haunts me very day ! so if you are going to put the time and effort into saving the marriage, there is a lot of healing at the other end.
you have to figure out how to speak HER language.
also, bottom line bro, she's challenging your manhood.
that's not necessarily bad. its a prime opportunity for you to find it again.
the 180 rule is good. take care of yourself. workout. get some new clothes, activities, cologne, anything !!!!!
I think she's about to bottom out and realize she's going to lose you and the other guy was just playing her all along. and even if she does get together with him….really… its his problem now. if she's not changing her ways for you and kids….she's not doing it for nobody.
don't even bother to ask for transparency. she won't. if she had integrity, ya'll wouldn't be here anyway.
you really need to find out what kind of woman she is, bc, it seems you still have things to learn about her.
you could start there…..'I'd like to know you better'….
Although I cannot disagree with your view about abandoning him, I had to weigh certain aspects about the situation. It is complicated to be sure but since he has been at his Grandfathers house his demeanor, self esteem and overall self worth has improved immensely. He has been able to be a kid and a young adult, something he was not able to be for the longest time.
But it does upset me very much that he is away, more so when his brother's and sister mention how much they miss him.
If it upsets you "very much" then why do you and his siblings only see him "very infrequently"?
Do you not realise how much harm you are doing to him by abandoning him in this way?
Don't you see that he has already been abandoned by his natural mother and his step mother and now you, his father, is apparently and unashamedly reinforcing what he must feel as being unworthy of being part of a family that cherishes each other?
How could you do this yet again, to a little boy who has been so hurt and damaged by those that are meant to love and believe in him?
If he's in another city, can you at least be sending him a letter or card every 2 or 3 days? I know it's old fashioned, but trust me, getting something in the mail from your parent or loved one will have a profound effect on the boy, even if he won't admit it.
I suppose most of you would ask "Why"? Why bother sticking around or letting her stay or even allowing her the opportunity to even fix things? "Give her the boot" "Dump her a55" "What are you waiting for?" "Man up".
You all are also right that it is indeed easy. So lets do that. Where does that get us, or more accurately me. A court date for sure, divided family immediate or otherwise, a strain on finances that would cascade from everything to Mortgage to toilet paper. A roll of the dice in court, even in spite of what evidence that I have, would be contingent to what the Judge had for breakfast, his/her love life the previous night or his/her views on old fashioned ways of thought.
Buts lets assume this even goes my way. What then? Well I can't control her nor her actions, hence me even being here. So lets assume she decides or just eventually hooks up with some nice guy and all is well. Of course there is the chance she gets involved with someone who is abusive, alcoholic, a drug addict or other charming quality, hmm, what to do. Well I could try to prove it but end up failing. Then have to tolerate my children being around someone who is completely out of my control and/or influence.
So yes, I am hoping and trying to work for the best. I don't know if I am with someone who is truly despicable or what but I do know that this forum, and most of the morally sound people of earth, would condemn me if I abandoned her after a car wreck that left her crippled or otherwise incapable of living without assistance. So why should her mental health status be treated any different? I am not saying this will work and if things do get to damn hard I'll do what must be done. But if people try to no ends to help a son or daughter out of drug addiction or financial ruin, or an alcoholic or gambling parent change their ways or any other person who you love or loved, why is my situation so different or immoral?
most of the morally sound people of earth, would condemn me if I abandoned her after a car wreck that left her crippled or otherwise incapable of living without assistance. So why should her mental health status be treated any different?
True, but show me anyone that hasn't severely phu3k3d up and I'll show you Jedi mind powers. In my youth I was reckless and apathetic to whoever I might have hurt. It was not until I hit rock bottom that I began to change my ways. I developed a lot of characteristics I never thought imaginable. People do things for a reason and time will tell if my Wife's behavior is just the passdown of abuse she sustained during her childhood. And unlike other's I have encountered I have from time to time caught a glimpse of her self awareness. I will not dismiss the possibilities regarding her well being and intentions. Maybe finally someone taking a stand is what is needed to take the first step. Had someone been there for her in her youth who would have fought the good fight then maybe things would be different for her, past, present and future.
Nut I'll always be on alert regardless of what happens.
It's not the falling down that defines us as people. It's whether and how we get back up that demonstrates character and bares the soul. Has she gotten back up? What character traits has she demonstrated? If you were an objective observer what would be your conclusion as to the depth and color of her soul?
If you want to play the KISA to her victimized past, I wish you luck with that.
I tend to look at mental illness as a reason for infidelity skeptically, but also logically. Assuming that indeed was the major reason for it, then you also have to assume that she needs to be "fixed" before you can have reasonable assurance that this won't happen again. Frankly, I'd have little confidence in you or mental health counselors to make that happen. In fact, it would give me more pause to consider R, than if there were no mental issues.
Never the less, it's your decision and I hope things work out for the best.
Baker Act is when you have someone committed for 72 hrs. to keep them from harming themselves and others.
And you had her.
1. talking of taking her own life.
2. she had a blade
3. she trashed the house.
4 she attacked you.
I feel the same way Wolf. Today she goes to her coerced therapy session due to her behavior recently and the threat of me calling the paramedics. Of course she has decided to throw in a monkey wrench to this as well.
I still have not given her any of the documented materials and she seems to have accepted this, but she now has indicated that she wanted my notebook journals regarding this that contain what I would perceive as sensitive information claiming that this information will help her at therapy even though a majority of the problems I explained to her that I had and concerns, past and present, were prevalent prior to us even getting married or her EA.
The more I say no though the more irritated she gets.
You HAVE moved all your 'evidence' to your place of work or a friend's house, right? She is becoming obsessed, and will soon trash your house looking for it.
Are you going to the session with her? You need to.
Any handwritten evidence needs to be transcribed into a digital format and stored (not necessarily synced, though) in at least two different offsite "Cloud" locations like Carbonite, Dropbox, Google Drive, SugarSync, etc.
OP, I didn't read all 14 pages but I read quite a bit. May I ask you (and I am asking sincerely, with no sarcasm intended): why are you still with this woman?
Do you love her that much?
I can fully understand if that is the case, but you never mentioned (or I missed) the reason why you are staying with her. Is there one?.. I also advocated forgiveness in another thread, but she is not asking you for one, either... I am actually interested to find out about your motivation to stay with her, rather than in her motivation to be what she is.
I do not mind at all, I appreciate honest questions.
I suppose I the end it is a matter of needs vs wants. I don't need her as I have basically shouldered this year's responsibility's in near its entirety. I'm not afraid of meeting someone new myself or getting the physical need for intimacy met. I am not keen on seeing her move on but it does happen in these cases. I feel it is and was the effort and experiences that we shared when things were at the best and the great sense of joy I felt during these moments.
I often say to myself WTF am I doing and proceed with the face palm. And for all things big or small she has equaled them in a positive manner.
At one time this woman fought tooth and nail to aid me in getting full custody of my eldest son, fought for his mother to get into his life, extended her affection towards him...But then this is equaled by some very bad actions, horrible ones. She must have at one time cared, so what changed? Why so angry?
She has several times in the past stressed values regarding family structure and her lack thereof during her childhood, only to introduce stressfulness and anger? So what changed?
She hated, and I mean hated the fact that her father was unfaithful to her mother and blames it mostly for the hell she went thru during her upbringing. Could her anger be now some sort of self reflection of guilt or shame that she became the one thing she despised the most? What changed?
Before children, Marriage, Work, Home owning, and all that other BS that gets in the way of life, like many others here we were on cloud 9. And the one thing I will always remember about our early days was that we simply enjoyed each others company and had what I thought was the rare combination of being in love, in relation ship and best friends and family.
Over the years I knew this would wane but could recognize what was obscuring my view of the dynamic. But every so often this began to be again; Lover's, husband and Wife and Friends. However fleeting it was I craved these moments and knew, had faith that eventually after a stretch of hard work raising children and life events that we would, could once again be free to enjoy life on our own terms. I thought I had the perfect partner once, and still think the potential is there, just buried under resentment, stagnation and some A55 monkey that filled a void and proceeded to accept her invitation to her heart. So what changed.
I think separation would help you in several ways. Help you learn you don't need her. Help her see that she can't take you for granted. Help you both get to a place - and have a reason to get to a place - where you can have a REAL conversation about what you BOTH deserve.
OP, I would ask her "what are you fighting for?" What does she want to accomplish by being so difficult? She has to put it in simple, clear terms that you can address if you decide to do so.
Every time I open my mouth to tell my husband he is doing something wrong, I clearly formulate in my head what he needs to change in his behavior, or what it is I want out of this, or what I want him to do. Not just "you have to be nice to me", but "I want help around the house" or "I want to be taken out on dates once a month"...... Whatever it is but it has to be like a statement of work with a clear goal and timeframe.
So, ask her to tell you what she is fighting for!
It may be helpful to put it in an email, so that she has a chance to put it all out there without getting distracted in a conversation.
Then you read it and decide if she is worth what she is asking for.
She feels your indecisiveness, which is a weakness, and exploits it. Help yourself to make a decision by getting her thoughts out in a written form and separating from her to think it over.
She has made it clear what she wants in terms of our relationship.More dates and excitement. I have no problem meeting these needs and agree whole heartedly.
However planning adult time outside the house for just the 2 of us is difficult with four children and only one trustworthy party to rely on for child care which is equally difficult due to this party not wanting or seeming to want to take our children for an extended period of time. Overnight stays or long weekends are slim picking, if any.
The other is the cost, a burden that befalls me to yield. I never complained abouther spending until this debacle but reviewing the last 2 yrs worth has shown a 1 for 1 ratio. 4k in, 4k out, 15 k in, 15 k out. And it isn't being stashed, it is just gone. So she doesn't consider dinner and a movie too exciting, fun but not exciting, nor do I.
Then there is the issue of having to perform nearly all the coupled chores and activities that involve us all. Laundary, dishes, general pickup, trash, outside work, making of meals when home, all three for the day, entertaining the children and so much more I am exhausted after dropping the kids off as it is or simply do not have the resolve or excitement anymore to challenge this. I did at one point but just got wore down with stress.
As for trying to make changes to support her emotional needs I simply was self conscious about trying and what she would think. After a discussion about this I picked one of the most obscure but romantic winery's in the area.
The result?
She made comments about what I didn't get done in lieu of concentrating on her and our date and found out soon after that she posted about our date on FB as if it was just her that went out, no mention of me. That hurt. And while also on our date she kept checking her damn phone, the main avenue of her cheating. I had no clue if her EA was over and felt disheveled.
She has clear and very well organized logic, and she is firmly following it. Her goal is different from OP's, but her actions are very logical: kill his will power, make him feel worthless so that he doesn't go anywhere, walk over him to cement that, build her own financial unit separate and independent from his, and basically get everything she can from him as long as it's free of ANY charge (monetary, emotional, etc). Very-very logical and clear to me.
My husband's ex was exactly like that in terms of killing the man's selfesteem, crushing his self worth and killing his self respect to be able to gain financially from it (she didn't cheat or anything like that). At the time of their divorce my H was BrOke! More over, I used to know him before they met, and he was this alpha male - proud, very confident, strong! When he contacted me at the time of his divorce (it was already filed and she already move to another man), he was this little, insecure, petty boy. She broke his self esteem and she was sure that he won't go anywhere from her no matter what she does. It's a form of control to make one believe that you are the only woman on Earth for him because he is so worthless that no one else would look twice at him. My H has rebuilt his self esteem and he is back to being a confident alpha male. But this time around he remembers who helped him grow those wings and how easy it is to lose them.
She works nearly full time but has contributed nothing, and I mean nothing, towards our household. The excuse is that she has a Capital one 360 account, like a checking and savings account, that she was putting money in for savings for the last few years. Supposedly this account is frozen due to a credit card bill needing to be paid off. I do not believe this and when I confront for evidence of this freeze yet again I am met with anger and irritation, and this is after I push past the excuses.
WTF ?? Get this resolved immediately. Hook or by crook. Look at her statements for the last few years. This is some vile sh*t !!! How the hell did you think this is normal!! I cannot believe some of the stuff she made you do through the years. You somehow made excuses I cannot understand
The therapy is not just to better herself, but if in the event that we do, or maybe even when, we end I need to make sure that for the time my children are not with me that they are with her that a lot of the issues she has and had even before me and her got together are dealt with and addressed. This is IC for her, not MC for us.
She is still trying to exert her will. After her therapy she came home to talk about it and the tone was definitely tense. She lamented that she did not appreciate me telling her what to feel or how she should feel. This statement is true but it lacks context, I have said that feeling entitled for her affair, justified for her abusive tendencies, self righteous for her violent outburst, ignored due to her lack of effort and various other destructive and negative habits and actions is indeed wrong.
She is pushing though, but while I have the factual-caught in the act-non-exaggerated-this is what you did evidence she is still trying to cake eat for the most part.
What was it that Chump Lady said, when they cake eat take away the fork! I like that!
I have a friend whose wife "controls him with anger". It's horrible. He says "no", and she starts yelling and/or crying. He is exhausted after work and is not able to defend his position. Plus, their kids witness all of that, and he feels guilty that he started it. And more, and more, and more negative feelings... So, eventually he learned that it's easier to do whatever she wants than to say No. Unfortunately, he also learned that it's best for him to be elsewhere than home. He doesn't cheat, but he volunteers at the church all the time, helps his friends with whatever it may be as long as it takes him out of the house, goes out with friends, stays late at work, takes kids out "giving her time to rest" or stays home with kids when she wants to go out... Whatever it takes to be separate from her. I am NOT advocating or advising it to him, but I am just sitting on a side and counting down to D.
What are you afraid of, Joker? It's fear that makes us do the kinds of things you're doing. Recognizing what you're afraid of will help you hold it at bay so you can make smarter decisions.
Exactly. And add that she'll be hearing from your lawyer.
Status
Not open for further replies.
You have insufficient privileges to reply here.
Related Threads
?
?
?
?
?
Talk About Marriage
4.9M posts
105.3K members
Since 2007
A forum community dedicated to married life between you and your spouse. Come join the discussion about love, romance, health, behavior, conflict resolution, care, and more!